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General Union with God (BoKSD 6)

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by BhagatSingh, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Bani of Sant Kabir Das, Shabad #6, starts in the middle of page 324.


    Introduction: What has to be present in any lifestyle if one wants to merge with Ram?


    ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ॥
    Raag Gaurhi Kabir ji

    ਨਗਨ ਫਿਰਤ ਜੌ ਪਾਈਐ ਜੋਗੁ ॥
    ਬਨ ਕਾ ਮਿਰਗੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸਭੁ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੧॥
    If Yog could be obtained by walking around naked,
    then all the deer of woods would be liberated from the cycle of births and deaths. 1.

    Yog(a) means the state of Union of individual consciousness with Ultimate Consciousness, union of the individual with Ram.


    ਕਿਆ ਨਾਗੇ ਕਿਆ ਬਾਧੇ ਚਾਮ ॥
    ਜਬ ਨਹੀ ਚੀਨਸਿ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    What does it matter if you are naked or are wearing leather
    when Ram does not even enter the consciousness?. 1. Think about this.

    ਮੂਡ ਮੁੰਡਾਏ ਜੌ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥
    ਮੁਕਤੀ ਭੇਡ ਨ ਗਈਆ ਕਾਈ ॥੨॥
    If one could obtain Siddhi, spiritual perfection, by shaving one's head,
    then the sheep would have obtained liberation. 2.


    ਬਿੰਦੁ ਰਾਖਿ ਜੌ ਤਰੀਐ ਭਾਈ ॥
    ਖੁਸਰੈ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥
    If one could make it across the worldly ocean by not getting married,
    then why have not the transgendered obtained the most exalted state?. 3.

    The transgendered in those times did not get married.

    ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਨਰ ਭਾਈ ॥
    ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਨਿ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥੪॥
    Kabir says listen O brothers,
    No one has found that state (of union) without meditation on Ram's name. 4. 4.



    Summary
    Kabir urges the listener to make meditation on Ram a significant part in their lifestyle. Not wearing clothes, shaving one's head and refraining from sexual activity will not, by themselves alone, bring us to Union; meditation on Ram must be present.


    Questions
    1. In our daily life what activities do we go through without remembering God?
    2. How can we remember to remember God during the daily hassle?


    True Honour (BoSKD 5)
    Thirst for God (BoSKD 4)
    God the Water (BoSKD 3)
    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 2
    Bani of Sant Kabir Das 1
     
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  3. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Not wearing clothes, refraining from marriage, shaving your head as stated in the shabad are just a small number of useless rituals that devotees subject themselves to with loyalty.
    Followers of these faiths actually believe that a person is a non-believer if they don't act these rituals.
    For example, in a group of shaven hindu saints, an odd one has hair due to not shaving for a month then he will be seen as a non-believer. All will assume that he cannot attain the God-realisation.

    Without meditating on the name of ram, they are completely useless.
    What should be the priority ?- NOT the useless ritual without the name of Ram or Lord.


    These 3 examples in this shabad are a little more compared to the devotees that fast or take ritual cleansing baths, because the shaven hindu sadhus, the group that practice celibacy, and the 'naked' sadhus are ALL groups of devotees that have these rituals that distinguish and identify them. (it is what makes them part of the devotee group)

    - In this sense, it is a real 'EGO' issue, because they are judged as good or bad, based on these useless defining rituals.
    So, to be a part of it one's ego needs to be adressed with the ritual !!

    Ritual practices bind people more and more into egoism and this helps form the stronger veil or wall between our true and real God conscious (or mool, jyot saroop, jeeva, soul..... or what ever term you want to use)

    I like and can see the way that Kabir ji has grouped these 3 together in this particular shabad when adressing the subject that gets referred to numerous times throughout the SGGSji. As explained above, I can see why!0:)
     
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  4. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Lucky Singh ji,
    How does this shabad apply to you and I?
     
  5. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh Canada
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    Hey..Good one!!!
    (I'm going to say that rituals can be essential, but it's the 'How')

    With this particular shabad, I noted above that it is directed at certain groups of devotees that practice these grouply rituals. It is not talking about other practices, of which there are many like fasting, bathing, wearing of items, marks on forehead...etc..

    When looking at rituals we can see that you can break them down into group ones as above where one has to partake to be first accepted and be part of the group and then to attain the realisation (or supposed).
    Then we have the other rituals that one does on a sole level to please a God and feed false ego.

    Personally I don't think that rituals are completely rejected as such in sikhism, but it is the actual 'empty' practice that is rejected.
    I'm only going to mention 'group' rituals as above and not any others, because I can see how group rituals apply to sikhism in my opinion.

    What defines a sikh, can be seen as ritual to others quite easily mostly the 5k's and nitnem- to start with!

    Now, as part of rehat , we know about nitnem- wake up and do the morning bani's.

    Just focusing on this, I can now understand that the rehat does infact tell us to wake at amrit vela, bathe and repeat the name 'waheguru' whilst concentrating thoughts on the One God.- then do the recitation of banis.
    The very important step here is that we are asked to not just do this daily recitation, but to also focus thoughts on none other than our Lord.
    To be doing naam jap and meditation is a crucial part of this waking at amrit vela.

    What impression does this ritual have on me personally ?
    1) I know from experience that the anand obtained at that heavenly time is not the same at any other time of the day.- therefore no argument there.
    2) The naam jap and focusing of thoughts help produce the good, spiritual or God-vibrations within.
    This is important as it makes the whole ritual of recitation much more useful and not useless in attaining spirituality and self or God-realisation.

    So, to me I know how I can make the ritual of nitnem useful for God realisation and I also know how easy it is to keep it 'useless'.

    Having the good and God-vibrations witin the activity makes it a worthwhile effort.
     
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  6. namjiwankaur

    namjiwankaur
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    Sat Nam _/|\_

    Good topic! I find myself forgetting over and over again. I need to get out of the quicksand of maya. I constantly sink in it and fill my life with suffering all because I forget to remember the One who could cure me of every trouble and then make me useful to help others overcome their troubles.

    I can't seem to remember not to forget God!

    So I'm happy to be in this discussion with all my brothers and sisters at SPN.

    Also would the translation in the shabad really be "transgendered"? I found that very interesting.

    Blessed be,
    Nam Jiwan peacesign
     
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  7. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Lucky Singh ji,
    Well said. I think you pretty much covered all aspects.
    I initially saw the above rituals as a way to detach the individual from the world and help them be more focused on God. But now I can see that it can also serve to create groups.

    Namjivan ji,
    Suffering is a big motivation towards finding peace. And one can only help others if one does not need help themselves.

    It may help to find examples of daily activities where you are not remembering God, and picture yourself remembering God during those activities.
     
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