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Truths or Misconceptions about Sikhi?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Harry Haller, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Gurfatehji,

    Having now found a path to the creator, and whilst attempting to sort out the chaff from the wheat, I am coming across many many opinions and beliefs that I now find myself at odds with, especially with older members of my family.

    A list of the points that I am told I should be aware of are listed below, I would appreciate any comments

    1. "Of course there is sin in sikhism, are you saying we have free range to do what we wish", My reply is that there is no sin, only manmukh and gurmukh, whatever we do merely takes us closer or further away from the creator, have I got this wrong?

    2. I am told it is essential that I read passages from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, on the basis that even if only 5% gets understood, that is a good thing, my reply is that it is better to understand the basic fundamentals of sikhism, rather than try and understand random passages that are open to misinterpretation, as that 5% could be taken out of context and you learn nothing. Surely to build a path to the creator, your foundations need to be rock solid, what is the point of simran if you have no concept of what sikhism stands for

    3. There is sin in sikhism, but drinking is not a sin, raping or killing is a sin

    4. Sikhism did not begin until Guru Gobind Singhji, everything before that was not proper sikhism

    5. I am clearly not on the right path, and I need to spend more time with the 'elders' so that I may absorb their knowledge, my reply is that each persons path is individual to him, and I do not want my path tainted by someone else's misinterpretation

    thoughts please......l.

    I have added this last paragraph as I wanted to say how much this forum has helped me. If I had not wandered onto here in January, I would have missed out on so much discussion, help and support. There are so many different people and thoughts here, but every expression is polite and respectful, I would go as far as to say that this forum, to me, represents an ideal of the general sikh community worldwide
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    My suggestion at this time, after reading your questions, would be a change of title. The "lies" seem more like perceptions that individuals have, which may be correct or incorrect. What would you like to do?
     
  4. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    spadminji,

    I will be happy to change the title to whatever you see fit, as long as the content is ok, can i leave it to you?

    Thanks and complete.
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Harry Ji,
    Heres my take on this..
    1. There NO SIN..paap punn daan donation good bad etc types of "merit/demerit/brownie points" system in Gurmatt. Gurmatt sees ONLY the CREATOR..and NO ONE ELSE.
    So YES you are absolutley as per Gurmatt when you assert that our actions bring us CLOSER..or take us FARTHER..that is the One and ONLY GOAL of Gurmatt..to achieve UNION/MERGER with HIM...and thus in our life do all those actions thta bring us closer and closer and clsoer...and AVOID those actions that take us farther and fartehr away from HIM.

    2. Simran...Maryada..Rehit..Discipline..Amrit..path...prayers..etc etc are ALL ACTION ORIENTED in Gurmatt.....not "Karam Kaand" type of RITUALS for the sake of doing to earn merit...so DYA for example towards an animal..a dog..a kitten..a beggar..etc must be driven by the love for the CREATOR and His creation..an attempt..however feeble to be LIKE the CREATOR. The Creator is the LION..and the Creator is the ZEBRA...when the Lion chases, hunts down the terrified zebra, kills it and consumes it..hes just doing exactly what the Creator put in his dna..the Zebras dna has the run away instinct to counter the Lion's hunt and kill instinct....BUT the importnat thing to notice is that the Creator didnt put the "kill for SPORT" instinct in the Lion...and neither did the Creator put the Herd instinct in Zebras that IF a herd of zebras encounters a single lion/lioness or a cub...to stage a riot and kill the lion..so the Lion wont kill for the fun of it and the zebras wont surround and kill a sick lion just becasue they realise their MOB POWER...Humans are different...they have FREEDOM OF CHOICE..and we are also clever enough to justify and do mental calisthenics trying to say this and that when in fact its our greed, our lust etc at fault...none in the animal world have any use for such justification. So we drink..and say its medical..its social..its for fun..its just for taste..etc etc...animals dont lie..dont cheat..all those are human traits..and we KNOW that they take us FARTHER FROM the all perfect Creator..yet we do them becasue we LIKE to and ENJOY them..

    2. The 5% "benefit"...as well as stories spun that suggest this have no basis. The Very First Word in SGGS...EK....shows NO DUALITY..ONE...and Oangkaar..He is above ALL..SATNAAM....TRUTH. Up to this we are already CHEST DEEP....His name is TRUTH..means NO LIES....so we got to put THAT into practise....NO LIES !! Until we have achieved 100% NO LIES..or ZERO TOLERANCE for LIES..we have no right or need to go any further...then and only then cna we proceed to Karta Purakh..NIRBHAU..the FEARLESS...next step is to banish FEAR..as Guru Teg bahadur Ji tells us..Bhai kahoo ko det neh.Na bhei maan at aan.I dont FEAR any..and I dont THREATEN any.. in my humble view..the Mool mnatar itslef is enough for alife time of Practise to get nearer to HIM...the 1429 aangs of SGGS are in fact the PRACTICAL PERSONAL EXPERIENCES of the writers in Hoiw they achieved the objectives, the ideals of the mool mantar...so we dont get discouraged..that its IMPOSSIBLE. Guru Arjun ji Sahib seated on the Sizzling Hot plate on a Blazing fire in the hottest summer, with heated snad being poured over his ehad and naked body...shows us how NOT to FEAR, nirbhau..how not to threaten anyone..how to be TRUTHFUL always..etc etc etc....ITS POSSIBLE and ACHIEVABLE. I have coem across many who ahve gone through the 1430 pages countless times..been matha teking at the Gurdawra and listening to kathas kirtans for past 80 years..BUT havent gone one step beyond the SATNAAM in practise..they LIE right in the Gurdwara seated behind the SGGS while doing paath !!!
    3. There is NO SIN and NO "good actions" per se....Drinking may take you farther form Him..raping may take you even farther...BUT "Hnakaar" of a supposedly good action like depositing a coin in the beggars bowl may also take you farther away from HIM...because HE is dendaa deh laindeh thaak payeh...He gives without any returns..can we do that ?? ALWAYS to keep HIM in MIND in all "actions"...judge whether we are going nearer or farther is the bottom line...

    4. SIKHISM - I prefer to call it GURMATT began with GURU NANAK SAHIB. Certian basic fundamentals existed even BEFORE Guur nanak ji sahib..thats WHY Guru Ji COLLECTED the Gurbani of Bhagats Kabir Ji, Sheikh farid Ji, Bhagat ravidass Ji ramanand Ji peepa ji sainni ji etc etc from all over ...and gave these equal status to His own compositions. These are also ILAHI Gurbani, coming from HIM....KHASAM ki Bani...Dhur KI Bani...
    There has always existed a CONSIPIRACY to DIVIDE and BREAK UP GURMATT...allegations and disparaging remarks about the Bhagat banis not being Gurbani.. Nefarious attempts (via Bachittra Natak Granth) to SEPARATE GURU NANAK JI SAHIB from Guru Angad Ji sahib and Guru Amardass Ji sahib.....the even more nefarious attempts to divide and separate GURU HARGOBIND SAHIB JI from the previous Five Gurus...claiming that Guru hargobind Ji militarised the peaceful dharma of Guru Nanak Ji..brought war and military etc...and acted in "revenge"..etc..etc..the Gurbilas patshai chhevin is a rascally book aimed at driving home this point...and then the attempts to just IGNORE the enxt 3 Gurus as inconsequential and jump to Guru teg bahdur ji as the Saviour of the janeau/Hinduism only when Guru jis prime objective was fight for HUMAN RIGHTS..it was just an accident of history that the janeau/hindus were the oppressed and the mughals were the oppressors..it could easily have been reversed and Guru Ji would have done the exact same thing - for example the Kashmiri Muslims today against the Bhagwa ruled Delhi tyrants !! The Bachitar natak granth GLORIFIES this shaheedee for the janeau..BUT never even mentions the shaheedee of GURU ARJUN JI less than a century earlier..Guru Arjun Ji also gave his life for Freedom to worship Human Right.
    Then the attempt to separate GURU GOBIND SINGH JI from the previous Nne Gurus..by saying He introduced the PANJ kakars, new maryada, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is even Bhagat Kabir Ji is saying 300 years before the Khalsa ...Je to prem kehllan ka chao..SIR DHAR TALI gali meri aao...gagan damama Bajio pario nishaneh ghao...Soora so pehchanniehy larreh DEEN jo KHET...SOORMAA,....warriors..blooddshed..fight for justice..Dharma..freedom from tyranny etc etc..GURU NANAK JI laid the FOUNDATION STONE of the BUILDING that the following Gurus completed..and Guru Gobind Singh ji gave it the Final Certificate of Fittness !! RECENTLY this CONSPIRACY was given a new twist by the Fake SAADH named Bhai Guriqbal Singh a Nanksaree Kirtaniyah who popularised the Slogan...300 saal Guru de Naal...effectively NEGATING the TEN GURU SAHIBAANS before 1708 to ZERO....Gurmatt age of 500 years was reduced to just 300 !!Like there was NO GURU since before 300 years (1708)...what were all those Ten Gurus ?? just seat warmers or what ?? This FAKE PREACHER has also tried to mislead the Sikhs into variosu other Karam kaands..such as encouraging school kids to waste time writing WAHEGURU 50,000 times or more to claim prizes of cash camera radios etc...doing so many paaths of sukhmani sahib etc etc..and latest CHHOCHHA was his support towards the Parkahs of a 1430 page GRANTH COPY CAT containing just the Bani sukhmani sahib repeated 50 times in Large Font. Thsi new "granth" was parkashed at par with the SGGS, with chaiur, chandnni etc and presented as..One Akhand Paath of thsi is EQUAL to same of SGGS !! Previously a similar grnath containing just japji sahib repeated over and over in large font was also made. This Japji garnth was also parkashed equal to sggs and a pathi would be doing paath from it during akhand paath...The SRM explicitly states: NO OTHER POTHI/BOOK/GRANTH may be parkashed at par/equal to the SGGS. This is because the COMPLETE SGGS is our GURU...not any other Gurbani in parts. Then WHY the need/wanting/compulsion to print such large granths of just one gurbani..to be parkashed at par with a complete SGGS ?? ESpecially when they keep on repeating the LIE that so many paaths of japji ALONE..or sukhmani ALONE are SUFFICIENT for thsi and for that.....and this is further compunded by printing and parkashing the one bani PSEUDO GRANTH ?? ISNT it an attempt to CHALLENGE the GURUSHIP of the SGGS ?? its the same (albeit under disguise) as the Naamdharees who DENY the Gurgadee of the SGGS entirely and in the open by having a human dehdharee Guru. I hope you can see the LINKS in the CHAIN....

    5. Last but not least..I am in compelte agreement with you...GURMATT is a ONE to ONE experience...thats why I often drill into my students not to "blindly accept" teekas and explanations....Prof Sahib Singhs darpan (mirror) is Prof sahib singh standing before the mirror and he sees what he sees...each of us MUST stand in fornt of our own MIRRORS and see the GURU the way we are blessed to see HIM. We cannot and must not accept what others say..even Gurbani warns us..jion gonggeh mathiyaee kahyee..each oen fo us is Deaf dumb mute...the Gurbani we Taste...remains INSIDE of us..becasue we cannot speak..we cannot tell others just how good it tastes...each one has to EXPERIENCE the GURU HIMSELF...no second guessing here...WE..each and everyone..with all our faults, warts and all are HIS OWN..he loves each one of in His own way..we have Gifts no other has..no one else will ever get...we INHERIT our own INHERITANCE..PIO DADDEH DA KHOL DITTAH KHAZANAH...no oen else can inherit..no one else can open..no one else can see...no one else can experience what is OURS and ours alone...not our beloved mummy or daddy or son or daughter or mother or wife..JUST US !!

    GO YOUR WAY HARRY..GO FOR IT !! and I hope you get it...Chardeekalla Jios always..
     
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  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Misconceptions is abetter word than lies..imho
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Thank you Gyaniji,

    Out of the many wonderful souls that frequent this forum, would you believe me if I told you that I was going to pm this to you in private, but I had hoped that you would offer your contribution, and within the hour I have a lengthy and informative view .

    Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify
     
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  8. Annie

    Annie
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    Re: Truths or Misperceptions about Sikhi?

    Harry ji,

    I'm happy for you that you're finding your truth. I'm far from an expert in Sikhi, but I will tell you my opinions. Some of them may get me yelled at.
    *hides*
    Semantics! That is more or less what sin is.
    I agree with you. But maybe it would be useful to read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in order from beginning to end, then read other people's thoughts about each aang on line. You can choose what rings true for you and get some insights you never thought of.
    If what takes you away from Waheguru is a sin, then it is up to you to decide whether drinking does that or not.
    What does this mean, should you ignore the Gurus before Guru Gobind Singh because they were "not Sikhs"?
    Age does not always mean intelligence or spirituality.
     
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  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    Thank you AnnieJi , I do not think there is anything there that should cause you to hide!

    You show more learning than some people who have been social sikhs for decades.
     
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