To Cover Our Heads Or Not?

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Sikhisn was there till the Gobibd Singh batiste the 5 pyare. Non of the Guru from the 1st to 9th gave any instructions to cover the head. Even the 10th never made it compulsory for every Sikh only those do the amrit pan

The first phase of writing Guru Granth Sahib was completed in presence of Guru Arjan. So I guess by that time he would have surely made sure Sikhs came with heads covered. The concept of Miri Piri and keeping 2 Kirpans was started by Guru Hargobind.

Guru Gobind Singh only formalized certain aspects of religion. He gave us the starting point. Amrit is the starting point in a way. When people used to take pledge under the first 9 Gurus, they used to take Charan Amrit.

The majyada is set up by men after the gurus were gone. Now if this marjyada passes that will become the law just like the other marjyadas.

I guess you are more than wrong here. Maryada is based on lives of Guru themselves. They lived this life, Sikhs followed it and that's how it is. Every now and then, I come across an aspect of Maryada reflecting in Guru Granth Sahib or Nitnem Baani shabad, any of Guru's Saakhis or Bhai Gurdas ji di vaaraa. We have great Sikh literature which we need to read a lot before we come to any assumption.

It is mean that those who don’t take amrit are not Sikhs?

I cannot comment on this without being judgemental and wrong. But if you know the worth of taking Amrit, and you have not taken.. then one should know that they have to submit their head and ego to Guru. They should think of it as a payment which is long due.

What shall one do as far as going to the think pot? How can we not listen to bani then?

This reminds me of a story. One guy goes and asks the priest.. can I smoke while remembering God? The priest says no. Other guy comes to know of it. He goes to the priest and asks.. can I remember God while smoking? The priest says YES. In the end, both guys know what to do and what not to do. They are just wasting time asking such questions.

In a generation not far far away, people used to refrain from taking books inside loo. They wouldn't want Vidya to go inside there. Ways have changed. But I would say over the years the whole notion and general standard of being 'respectful' towards something has come down.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

WHY do vast majority of women cover their heads with chunnis/dupattas and not turbans?

I don't know Ishna ji. I can't say. All I know is that 2 bibis I knew personally in Hyderabad. They used to cut their hair initially. Now they have taken up Amrit and even tie their turban/keski. When you see such devoted dedication, you don't think about anything else.

 

[findingmyway]

1) The Guru's before Nanak10 did not need make head covering mandatory as it would have been done as standard at that time

2) Covering the head has 3 practical functions and is not merely cultural. It is a sign of respect, it protects our precious kesh and it gives us an identity so that we can't run away from our responsibilities. At that time turban would have been mainly for royalty so its emphasis that we are all worthy and equal.

3) Women and men should both wear turbans for equality. However, a lot of women don't due to personal and cultural reasons. That is changing. Each person has to make their own decisions.

4) The shabad above has been read out of context. It is actually talking about how emphasis on outer appearance only is wrong. Inner and outer appearance should reflect each other.

5) Best case scenario is all Sikhs wearing a turban all the time but we are humans and Sikhi is a journey that will be different for each person so lets not be judgemental about those who are not ready to keep head covered all the time. Sikhi is not dogmatic but pragmatic.

6) The most important thing is to connect with Gurbani respectfully. This will be achieved differently depending on the person and where they are on the pathway. In a Gurdwara head should always be covered out of respect.

 

[spnadmin]

Respected forum members,

I have a question that so far has not been asked. How would tying dastar protect the 10th Gate? Throughout Gurbani the 10th gate is not a physical location, not in the brain nor the head, having no material nature?

I have read nearly 60 shabads now and do not see a single one where a description of the 10th Gate applies in the physical sense. Would appreciate a response.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Respected forum members,

I have a question that so far has not been asked. How would tying dastar protect the 10th Gate? Throughout Gurbani the 10th gate is not a physical location, not in the brain nor the head, having no material nature?

I have read nearly 60 shabads now and do not see a single one where a description of the 10th Gate applies in the physical sense. Would appreciate a response.

spnadmin ji why are you asking difficult questions of grown people peacesign

Now they are going to look for Dasam Dwar or the Tenth Gate. Please people save some time and check this thread,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/8560-dasam-dwar-2.html

Let the spirit of the creator cover the Dasam Dwar, that is if there is something like that versus calling the opening of your inner soul (as Dasam Dwar) to understand the creator.

I would not like to cover Dasam Dwar in the fear of suffocating spirituality just as I would not cover my eyes, plug my nostrils or plug my ears or try describing my other dwars (which to me is crude)japposatnamwaheguru:

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Ishna]

I could be really cynical, point to the 'female' symbol next to my name and say I know exactly where my tenth gate is, if we're talking physical.

Or do only men have a tenth gate?

Or is this proof that it is NOT physical?

Isn't it food for another thread anyway?

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ishna ji, it is definitely food for another thread like the one about eating meat by Randip Singh ji,

"Fools who wrangle over Dasam Dwar"

I am aghast at some people quoting Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to get literal answers to such questions? They miss the whole Gurbani Ship sailing in tranquil seas and keep paddling like crazy in a dingy!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[spnadmin]

My ruling:

japposatnamwaheguru:

Reference to dasam dwar is relevant to this thread in this sense. A reason given for tying dastar is to protect the 10th gate.

ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.

Guru clearly says that the Tenth Door is hidden. As are so many things. They come forth as one practices the Shabad of Guru. But for what is known, we tie a top knot which is meant to be our spiritual (and perhaps physical) location of the Tenth Door. We tie turban around our head to protect it and hair and our crackable skulls. Is the safety of your brain important to you or not?

Now I am trying to figure out how this would work.
:whatzpointkudi:

 

[Ambarsaria]

spnadmin ji if you figure out the following,

Reference to dasam dwar is relevant to this thread in this sense. A reason given for tying dastar is to protect the 10th gate. (May I please know by who!) Now I am trying to figure out how that would work.

You can stop learning as you will be one with the creator and would have reached a stage of as much as one can learn about the creator! As Professor Sahib Singh ji says, don't go for it. Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji directly warns us also about such endeavors.

:angryadminkaur:

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ishan Ji really tickled me...YES there are other "dwaars" that are always kept covered !! and they are not "hidden" yet they are not revealed either !!( at least by civilised people in polite society)...Just as there is a "third EYE"...so is there a dasam duaar...its opened via practise....
and Ambarsariahs ji tickled me with his dingy paddling....those dingy sailors have decided to jump ship..when the MOTHER ship is in perfect shape..utter fools...will be paddling dingys all their lives and go no where...

 

[Ishna]

I think we need a 'Sikh (albeit confused) madly paddling a dingy' smiley! peacesign

 

[ac_marshall]

Respected All,
I'm a non Sikh by birth but respect the divine Gurus like any practising Sikh. If permitted, I would like to put forward some points with respect to covering the head on the basis of my experience with people in India from various faiths and some spare time research into Indian History. I could find that historically, the turban has been a symbol of honour and that it was mostly worn by dignitaries. People on lower scale in the social order were not allowed to wear turbans while a king or any higher person on the social order passed or stopped. They had to remove the head gear, fold their hands and bow. This unfair ritual was in practice.

Guru Nanak Devji was a revolutionary social reformer who questioned social injustices and promoted equality of all human beings. As per the Sikh tenet of considering the entire human race as one, all human beings are equal irrespective of social order. This could have been shown symbolically while followers from all backgrounds wore turbans to show equality of all of them upholding their honours.

This is just my thought on this matter that I felt like sharing with no intended offence. I seek your pardon and request you to correct me wherever I'm wrong.

Sat Sri Akal

 

[spnadmin]

Respected All,
People on lower scale in the social order were not allowed to wear turbans while a king or any higher person on the social order passed or stopped. They had to remove the head gear, fold their hands and bow. This unfair ritual was in practice.

Guru Nanak Devji was a revolutionary social reformer who questioned social injustices and promoted equality of all human beings. As per the Sikh tenet of considering the entire human race as one, all human beings are equal irrespective of social order. This could have been shown symbolically while followers from all backgrounds wore turbans to show equality of all of them upholding their honours.

This is just my thought on this matter that I felt like sharing with no intended offence. I seek your pardon and request you to correct me wherever I'm wrong.

Sat Sri Akal

ac marshall ji

Why seek pardon at all? Ambarsaria ji at the beginning of this thread alluded to the political and cultural reasons for tying dastar. You have described exactly how the turban became part of the revolutionary movement that was begun by Guru Nanak. And, you have given his reasoning. Donning a turban, rejecting caste, honoring women, all this was how Guru Nanak worked to move a people forward whose spirits had been sickened by the moral corruption of those very religious and political overlords who dared to keep everyone else in a socially and spiritually humiliated state. Guru Gobind Singh institutionalized dastar as a symbol of Sikh identity. Today we celebrate the liberation of our identity by honoring and wearing a turban.

Guru Arjan Dev joyously describes the feeling of moral victory that accompanies/is symbolized in turban/dastar once we face the real oppressors (the five thieves) and are able to overcome them:


ਹਉ ਗੋਸਾਈ ਦਾ ਪਹਿਲਵਾਨੜਾ ॥
Ho Gosaaee Dhaa Pehilavaanarraa ||
I am a wrestler; I belong to the Lord of the World.

ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਉਚ ਦੁਮਾਲੜਾ ॥
Mai Gur Mil Ouch Dhumaalarraa ||
I met with the Guru, and I have tied a tall, plumed turban.

ਸਭ ਹੋਈ ਛਿੰਝ ਇਕਠੀਆ ਦਯੁ ਬੈਠਾ ਵੇਖੈ ਆਪਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੭॥
Sabh Hoee Shhinjh Eikatheeaa Dhay Baithaa Vaekhai Aap Jeeo ||17||
All have gathered to watch the wrestling match, and the Merciful Lord Himself is seated to behold it. ||17||

ਵਾਤ ਵਜਨਿ ਟੰਮਕ ਭੇਰੀਆ ॥
Vaath Vajan Ttanmak Bhaereeaa ||
The bugles play and the drums beat.

ਮਲ ਲਥੇ ਲੈਦੇ ਫੇਰੀਆ ॥
Mal Lathhae Laidhae Faereeaa ||
The wrestlers enter the arena and circle around.


ਨਿਹਤੇ ਪੰਜਿ ਜੁਆਨ ਮੈ ਗੁਰ ਥਾਪੀ ਦਿਤੀ ਕੰਡਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧੮॥
Nihathae Panj Juaan Mai Gur Thhaapee Dhithee Kandd Jeeo ||18||
I have thrown the five challengers to the ground, and the Guru has patted me on the back. ||18||

 

[spnadmin]

Several comments on this thread have been moved as a new thread to this link: Biting the Hand that Helps http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-discussion/35030-biting-the-hand-that-helps.html

 

[Ishna]

This thread might have some relevant information regarding head covering and digital gurbani:

Respect to Gurbani in Other Languages

 

[findingmyway]

Here's more info about the dasam dwaar
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/607-what-is-dasam-duaar-5.html#post136774

From what I've figured out the dasam dwaar is understanding and the brain is the physical vehicle that allows this. Without a brain understanding cannot arise so protecting it is pertinent. My father was once attacked from behind with a bat. It was his turban that protected and saved him :angryyoungsingh:

 

[seeker3k]

Kanwaljit Singh Ji,

Can you give us the proof it that 10th guru made it mandatory to cover the head to all the Sikhs? I have not read it in any where that any guru made it mandatory to cover the head.

In the old testament when Moses went up the mountain to see God. God told him to take off his shoes and cover his head when ever you are in holy place. I have seen Jews in their worship place go bare head some do put on a kind of had on their head. They do not remove their shoes.

There is no where in the SGGS that we must cover the head or take shoes off. Thos who wish to do that let them those who don’t want to do it let them keep it on or head not cover.
We should live by the SGGS not get tangled by the useless rituals

 

[Ambarsaria]

seeker3k ji it is pretty amazing that you are directing Sikhs to mannerisms while you are lying on the face of it as I note,

Adherent: Agnostic

"There is no where in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that we must cover the head or take shoes off. Thos who wish to do that let them those who don’t want to do it let them keep it on or head not cover."
​

Unfortunately you have not understood nor you believe in the basic definition of a Sikh,

Quote:

is`K dI qwrI&
​

jo iesqrI jW purS iek Akwl purK, ds gurU swihbwn (sRI gurU nwnk dyv jI qoN lY ky sRI gurU goibMd isMG swihb qk), sRI gurU gRMQ swihb Aqy ds gurU swihbwn dI bwxI qy is`iKAw Aqy dsmyS jI dy AMimRq au`qy inScw r`Kdw hY Aqy iksy hor Drm nUM nhIN mMNndw, auh is`K hY[

Examplification of a Sikh​

The woman or man who believes in one creator, ten Gurus (Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji), Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and the Gurbani of ten Gurus and their teachings and has belief in Baptization of the pure of Dashmesh ji and does not believe in another religion, is a Sikh.​

Believing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is part of being a Sikh but not the only part.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/

Sat Sri Akal.
​

 

[Ishna]

Removing shoes in Darbar Sahib is a very important tradition -- it keeps the ground clean so we can sit on it!

It can be argued that the Sikh Guru's endorsed head covering by wearing head coverings themselves. I believe Findingmyway ji's post summarises the reasons behind head covering quite nicely -- go back and read it again, it's post #23 on page 3.

The very minimum is that people should cover their head in Darbar Sahib. What you do outside of that is your own choice. Darbar Sahib is so beautful when everyone has their heads covered. It gives the whole place a real sense of sacredness -- it adds to atmosphere. Making sure your head is covered before you go in -- you're already thinking about your relationship to God before you set foot inside.

And the "it's not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji so why should we do it?" argument is one I've made a lot in the past but now I've realised the folly in this argument.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teaches high-level concepts and CORE TRUTHs which the Sikh takes on board and uses to make decisions on how to think, how to act, how to take responsibility and sift through the crap of life and identify the good stuff. It gives us parameters to apply to all situations that we encounter so we can conduct ourselves righteously no matter what the circumstances. You've already understood that part by learning we shouldn't give in to ritualism.

If you want a scripture which sets out exactly what you need to do, when you need to do it, with no questions asked (in theory but rarely in practice), then try the Quran. Go and learn about Islam and see how a religion so tightly bound by time- and situation- specific rules governs the faith group.

Sikhi and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is much broader than that.

I get your point about ritualism, I have pondered that problem myself with relation to head covering. In my own life I go bare-headed. I cover my head for Gurdwara and Nitnem prayers because it makes me feel humble and helps me get "in the mood" for reflecting my prayers back to God. I pray informally at other times without my head covered, I try to remember God as much as I can. If I thought I was doing something wrong and needed to cover my head (like I used to) then I think that would be ritualism. Or doing something when you don't understand why you're doing it. Or doing it to receive some particular divine blessing. To me that's ritualism.

Doing something with an understanding of why you're doing it is perfectly rational, to my mind.

 

[lionsingh]

:singhsippingcoffee:

Valid question . Why do Sikhs cover their head ??? Why is the Turban so important ? Does it mean if you wear a turban you are a better Sikh than those that dont ? Now some Sikhs can be :angryyoungsingh:but others mundahug

When guru Gobind was alive, the Turban was ONLY for Islamic Over-Lords and Hindu nobelity. To wear a Turban was a death sentence in itself. The Rulers could only wear a Turban. Guru Gobind ELAVATED ALL to that status of Princes and Rulers ...every ONE...all that believed !!! Sikhs couldnt hide as they were visible..and rocked and challenged the tyrany in Punjab..ALL WERE KINGS all ....we know the price they paid for this.

A Sikh is NOT JUST a Turban. The Turban is sacred/history for a Sikh.