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To Cover Our Heads or Not?

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by seeker3k, Mar 30, 2011.

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  1. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    Hello all,

    I just came back to Canada from my trip to India after 5 months.
    It was exciting and interesting trip. When I was in India I use to read Ajit news paper in Punjabi. One of the jathedar had the message for the Sikhs that there should be no Gurus picture or Gurbani verses on the wedding cards. He claim that cards are thrown after the wedding that is insult to Gurus and Gurbani. I sent the email to SGPC but no one replied.
    My question was and still is. Is that jathedar or SGPC telling us that the pictures of the guru are real picture? AS far as I know there is no real picture of any Guru. How can that be an insult to Gurus? As far as the Gurbani is concern I can understand but still have question about it. The picture and Gurbani is printed in all papers. Those papers are thrown away and use to wipe thing. Is it not insult to Gurbani?
    There is a new twist in all that. One can search google for the bani. There are thousands of pages and full listing of SGGS on the internet. With the laptop and ebook we can read the bani every there. Even as we are eating or drinking coffee in cafe? Or in wash rooms.
    What is the marjayda in these cases? Should we bow and cover our head when ever we read bani on ebook?
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    seeker3k ji

    Most of what you have written -- all very interesting-- is not about covering one's head whilst reading Gurbani on the Internet. You have "covered" 3 possible discussion topics. Let's see how the conversation unwinds. I may have to merge this thread with another thread about covering one's head if that is direction things take. Thanks.
     
  4. Kanwaljit Singh

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    True. Thinking the pictures to be Guru would be an insult.

    Traditionally the Guru Granth Sahib or Gurbani in any paper form is cremated.

    Many people when they do Paath from Laptop or Ebook or iPod prefer to sit cross legged with their shoes off. It depends on what respect you want to give to Gurbani. Whatever you give is less. Of course I would suggest if you are reading a laptop for Baani don't use it (even to listen to music or browse) in the washroom while sitting on the thinking pot.

    I guess that is why we have Maryada is to cover head with turban all the time.
     
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  5. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    seeker3k ji some thoughts.
    So it is pretty clear that there are very specific times that Head covering is required as per the quotes from Sikh Rehat Maryada.

    Equally importantly one has to consider the following from a common sense perspective,

    Again in terms of cards and writings or depiction of Guru persona, I believe it is personal and respectful decision that needs to be taken by the people initiating such request. Again humility, respect, common sense can usually guide. To talk about dis-respect and flag the wedding cards for such, one has to then ban all the newspapers as many have Gurbani lines and similar persona painting depictions. Newspapers perhaps see more perverse and dis-respectful uses and disposition that the matter becomes irrelevant.



    I hope that is helpful for the dialog.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  6. hpannu

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    Dear Sangat Members - for a SIKH head has to be covered all the time. Question of head to be covered while only reading Gurbani is absurd. As far as pictures are concerned they are just artists representation of the Gurus - Seeker3k Ji is right -it's just like any other picture. People doing dhoop or decorating them is against SIKHI !

    Just my 2 cents.

    ਭੁਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਖਸ਼ ਦੇਣਾ ਜੀ

    ਦਾਸ - ਹਰਜੋਤ ਸਿੰਘ
     
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  7. Ambarsaria

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    hpannu ji I read the context of the question to be for all children, females, kurehatiye male/female sikhs (sehajdhari or who have cut their hair)! The Kurehatiye are still Sikhs!

    I believe Sikh Rehat Maryada also describes it in similar context.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  8. spnadmin

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    You have put your finger on the crux of an ongoing issue that stands behind questions that should be simple and have simple answers. Not so! :)

    Everything depends on where one stands in relation to debates going back to the late 19th Century. Notably strain between Chief Khalsa Diwan and Panch Khalsa Diwan, but not limited to it. The SRM was too loose for some, too restrictive for others. So there it stands as the broad middle lane. The debate continues.
     
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  9. hpannu

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    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ
    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਿਹ ॥

    ਵੀਰ ਜੀ - If a person calls himself a SIKH - then he should cover his head all the time. Not just when going to Gurduara Sahib or doing Nitnem. Yes, this applies to everyone, including kids and females .......

    SehajDhari is a different topic by itself and so is Kurehtiye. for example - a person cannot call himself Sehajdhari Sikh all his life. Sehajdhari is a person who is on path to become GURU KA SIKH - meaning day by day he is working towards it. Now - a person cannot call himself Sehajdhari if he was Sehajdhari in 70's, 80's, 90's ....... and still calls himself Sehajdhari. That concludes he is not on his way to GURU KA SIKH ........

    Recently, last year there was a incident @ our Gurduara Sahib. where a person didn't cover his head in the Darbar Hall after Sukhasan was done. When questioned his answer was GOD is everywhere. Now a days - people are under the impression that we have to do this only when needed. It's not on a need be basis.

    Daas,
    Harjot Singh
     
  10. Ambarsaria

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    Sorry hpannu ji with the following you are rewriting Sikh Rehat Maryada,

    Of course striving for the ideal and living the ideal is good.

    If you looking for purest of the pure (No Kurehatiye or Tankhayeah (Rehat deviation)), let me know if you are one or know someone who is!

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The question I want to ask is..Just How many "sikhs" HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME...when they consume alcohol...engage in DOWRY TORTURE....Female Foetecide...Female Child DISCRIMINATION....dance wildly in drunk state in bhangras wedding parties...????..Fight in Gurdwaras over CONTROL.....and appear in the Courts Charged with petty crimes like illegal immigration, forged passports, cheating..bribery..etc etc etc....EVEN IF ALL THESE "SIKHS" have PERFECT HEAD COVERINGS ( Patiala Shahee Dastaars or ROYAL TURBANS )...they need to HANG THOSE IN SHAME !!!

    TOO MUCH EMPTY FOKA DIKHAWA..show off..ritualised behaviour has overtaken us...we are EMPTY SHELLS or DRUMS making loud noises....SAD !!..even our Govt is run by S.A.D. !!peacesign
     
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  12. Ishna

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    If everyone is to cover our heads all the time to please God then why aren't we born with a head covering?

    Same argument in reverse is why would it please God to remove the foreskin when men are born with it attached?

    What is the CORE REASON why Sikhs cover their head? Is this core reason relevant in the wide expanse of the limitless and vastly incomprehensible UNIVERSE that it should be for everyone of all ages, all genders, everywhere, all the time without question?

    Is the CORE REASON a social / cultural / traditional one? If so, what is it trying to express? What is the reason behind it?
     
  13. hpannu

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    Ambarsaria Ji - Truth is truth you cannot hide it that's all i am saying Like it or not. If i say - SIKH is under HUKAM to keep KESH or cover his KESH or GURU GRANTH SAHIB ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਨਣਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੇਹਧਾਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀ or believe in the Teachings of 10 Gurus from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji or Kirat karni and so on ......... I would like to ask you whether this is true or not. If i am wrong let me know.

    Code:
    If you looking for purest of the pure (No Kurehatiye or Tankhayeah  (Rehat deviation)), let me know if you are one or know someone who is!
    I didn't say i am perfect or i am pure and you are not. oh yes, it would be nice to see purest of the pure in this corrupt world - there are not many we all know that.

    Code:
    Sorry don't know where you grew up it must be very  polished and City type locale or private school or highly religious  family intolerant of less than perfect Sikhs.  
     
    This is not Guruan's land like Amritsar or Punjab or many villages that make this land.
    Please - tell me when did i say i come from a highly religous family intolerant of less than perfect Sikhs. We all are imperfect ...........

    and this is not Guruan's land like Amritsar or Punjab ...... Are you saying it's ok to cover our head in Punjab / Guru's land and not ok over here.
    This is what i don't like and don't want to get further into argument after this reply of mine. This is exactly the example i was giving in my earlier reply - people now a days think it's ok not to cover the head in Darbar Hall of Gurduara Sahib because Guru Granth Sahib is not present after Sukhasan Seva. Just look at the ladies during diwan half of their head is not covered at all because of their style and fashion.

    Lastly Sehajdhari and Kurehatiye - I only said it's a different topic because it's a debate by itself - meaning who is Sehajdhari and Kurehatiye is a big topic ( i didn't mean different topic ). I consider myself and majority of the SIKHS to be Sehajdhari. Even if you adorn Kesh or not. We are not perfect and if we fall into the Sehajdhari category then we should be making an attempt to be GURU KA SIKH ........that's all - it's simple - not a rocket science. What i don't like is people calling themselves Sehajdhari and like Giani Jarnail Singh in his reply said - Drink alcohol, dowry issues, Kuri Maar (female foeticide) ............ it goes on and on

    ਸੰਗਤ ਤੋ ਮਾਫੀ ਮੰਗਦਾਂ ਹਾਂ for getting into an argument.
    Please forgive me.

    Daas,
    Harjot Singh

    The following is from while doing Sehaj Path this morning -




    ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ਪਹਿਲਾ - ਅੰਗ 1013

    ਛਾਣੀ ਖਾਕੁ ਬਿਭੂਤ ਚੜਾਈ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾ ਮਗੁ ਜੋਹੈ
    He sifts through the dust, and applies ashes to his body, but he is searching for the path of Maya's wealth.

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਏਕੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹੇ ਤੇ ਛੋਹੈ
    Inwardly and outwardly, he does not know the One Lord; if someone tells him the Truth, he grows angry.

    ਪਾਠੁ ਪੜੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਝੂਠੋ ਬੋਲੈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਓਹੈ
    He reads the scriptures, but tells lies; such is the intellect of one who has no Guru.

    ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਈ ਕਿਉ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕਿਉ ਸੋਹੈ ॥੪॥
    Without chanting the Naam, how can he find peace? Without the Name, how can he look good? ||4||

    ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ
    Some shave their heads, some keep their hair in matted tangles; some keep it in braids, while some keep silent, filled with egotistical pride.

    ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ
    Their minds waver and wander in ten directions, without loving devotion and enlightenment of the soul.

    ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ
    They abandon the Ambrosial Nectar, and drink the deadly poison, driven mad by Maya.

    ਕਿਰਤੁ ਮਿਟਈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਸੂਆ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਨਾ ॥੫॥
    Past actions cannot be erased; without understanding the Hukam of the Lord's Command, they become beasts. ||5||
     
    #12 hpannu, Mar 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  14. Ambarsaria

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    hpannu ji thanks for your post just some comments.
    The following is true from the Panth as Khalsa for me nothing more nothing less,

    hspannu ji the following is not in right context,

    Sorry in terms of "Sehajdhari" I was not trying to add any spirituality to the word as I could have been more proper to say "people who cut their hair". I will hug a Sikh with cut hair and a good soul any day. Hair grow all our lives and may God give them support to be complete Sikh.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
  15. Ishna

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    Can some Gurbani about covering one's head be provided please?
     
  16. Ambarsaria

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    Ishna ji if you search "head cover" under advanced settings at srigranth.org you get three shabads. Generally the context is the false practices and little value of those. Here is a nice shabad but may not be exactly what you are looking for. I can delete it if not right,

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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    #15 Ambarsaria, Mar 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  17. Ishna

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    Thanks Ambarsaria ji.

    Question to all: If head covering wasn't considered important enough by the Guru to be included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an order for Sikhs to do it, then where does the big deal come from? How do Sikhs get practices from sources other than their Guru?
     
  18. Ambarsaria

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    Ishna ji I am not a scholar in this kind of discussion but a lay person.

    My thoughts would be it is cultural, social and practical that leads into a uniqueness of persona if adopted well, as in Sikhisim.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. Kanwaljit Singh

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    Things which are not explicitly included in Guru Granth Sahib - suggestion to go to SPN and share views :) and Your and mine existence. But if things are not stated, doesn't mean you don't have to do it.

    ਵਜਾਇਆ ਵਾਜਾ ਪਉਣ ਨਉ ਦੁਆਰੇ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਕੀਏ ਦਸਵਾ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖਾਇਆ ॥
    He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.

    Guru clearly says that the Tenth Door is hidden. As are so many things. They come forth as one practices the Shabad of Guru. But for what is known, we tie a top knot which is meant to be our spiritual (and perhaps physical) location of the Tenth Door. We tie turban around our head to protect it and hair and our crackable skulls. Is the safety of your brain important to you or not?

    If you think so, then I believe all birds should be born with nests. Is it so? No. Birds have to build their own nests. Sikhs have to tie their own turbans.

    Finally my advice is that it is good to question, but lack of answers doesn't mean one should give up following Maryada.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji
     
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  20. Ishna

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    Great post Kanwajit ji. I'm not suggesting giving up Maryada, just trying to get ideas from outside the box. Examples about turbans are fine however it is strange to be targeted to men and not all people.

    WHY do vast majority of women cover their heads with chunnis/dupattas and not turbans?
     
  21. seeker3k

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    Forgive for being blunt.

    Sikhisn was there till the Gobibd Singh batiste the 5 pyare. Non of the Guru from the 1st to 9th gave any instructions to cover the head. Even the 10th never made it compulsory for every Sikh only those do the amrit pan.
    The majyada is set up by men after the gurus were gone. Now if this marjyada passes that will become the law just like the other marjyadas.

    We have to think where we want to take this great Idea?

    It is mean that those who don’t take amrit are not Sikhs?
    As for Kanwaljit Singh
    I would suggest if you are reading a laptop for Baani don't use it (even to listen to music or browse) in the washroom while sitting on the thinking pot..


    In India there are speaker blasting bani from 4am. What shall one do as far as going to the think pot? How can we not listen to bani then?

    I am sorry that I offended many here. But truth always hurt

    Why is that when I try to reply with quat in the message come back thar message is too short to post? Need help here
     

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