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General The Rise of Sikhism in Pakistan

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by kds1980, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    http://www.newtosikhi.com/profiles/blogs/the-rise-of-sikhism-in

    Some of the Sindhi Sehajdharis who joined the Khalsa Panth recently would meet the Jathedar of Akal Takht in Amritsar to seek guidance for maintaining “maryada” in gurdwaras in Pakistan.

    Amritsar - While the Sikh leadership in India, especially in Punjab, is worried over rising trend of ‘patitpuna’ (apostate), a large number of [Sindhi Sehajdharis] in Pakistan, have joined the Sikh fold by getting themselves baptised.

    [At least 25 per cent ‘Sehajdhari Sikhs’ from the Sindh province have entered the Khalsa Panth, by taking Amrit, in the recent past.]

    It sounds unbelievable that persons who introduced themselves as Jawahar Singh, Vijay Singh and Parkash Singh with blowing beards were Jawahar Lal, Vijay Kumar and Om Parkash, respectively, only few months ago. As compared to the Hindus, the Sikhs are considered more safe in Pakistan. Many Pakistani Hindus, who had come to India, in the past had never returned to their country, due to their continuous persecution.

    Talking to The Tribune, Mr Vijay Singh said there were more than 15 lakh Hindus in Sindh province itself, who were devout Sehajdhari Sikhs. He said most of the Sindhis could easily read Sri Guru Granth Sahib in ‘Gurmukhi’ script without any problem. Mr Darshan Singh (previous name Prof Darshan Singh Ji Khalsa) said the ‘Gurmukhi’ was being taught in Hindu temples and Gurdwaras to the younger generation, so that they could remain devout Sikhs.

    These temples, schools and Gurdwaras include Baba Hardass Ram School, Gurdwara Nanakwara, Gurdwara Bhai Joga Singh, Guru Arjan Dev Pathshala and Baba Bhoj Ram Temple. Raja, a student of class VII from Dehrki district (Pakistan) said he would be baptised as per the wishes of his parents (Sehajdhari Sikhs) shortly.

    Baba Amir Singh and Baba Amarjit Singh from Peshawar said the Pakistani Sikhs got disappointed when they saw ‘patit’ Sikhs accompanying the Indian jathas, who visited Pakistan every year, to pay their obeisance in Gurdwaras there. They said the government of India should not give visas to the ‘patit Sikhs’ to visit Pakistan as their appearance hurt the sentiments of the Sikh Sangat in Pakistan. They said the SGPC should not recommend the visas at ‘patit Sikhs'.

    Baba Amarjit Singh, a Granthi of Gurdwara Joga Singh (Peshawar) said the Sikh pilgrims from Pakistan would like to meet Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, Jathedar Akal Takht for seeking his guidance to maintain ‘Maryada’ in gurdwaras of Pakistan.

    Though the SGPC or Akal Takht object to the performance of akhand path in temples in India, Sri Guru Granth Sahib is placed in a number of temples in Pakistan. A number of Pakistani Hindus including Mr Jai Ram and Mr Jaipal said they perform path of Sri Guru Granth Sahib in temples every day.
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    This is an amazing article. So many twists and turns to it. Lot's to debate here. Hope it goes well.
     
  4. spnadmin

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    Sometimes it is hard to know what to believe in the Sikh/Pakistan scenario

    Here is another take on how well Sikhs are doing in Pakistan, from the ground.


    Abduction of Hindus, Sikhs have become a business in Pak: PML MP

    AMRITSAR: Incidents of abduction of Hindus and Sikhs, especially of girls, for forced conversion and marriages to Muslims, and for ransom have increased in the recent past in Pakistan, said Punjab's ruling party, Pakistan Muslim League (N) member parliament Dr Haresh Chopra talking to TOI here on Saturday.

    Chopra has also sought Indian parliamentarians to take up the issue of plight of Hindus and Sikhs as it did in case of illegal transfer of gurdwara lands in Pakistan so as to put international pressure on Pakistan government to protect minority communities.

    Chopra, who is also member of standing committee on human rights, was here on a personal visit on the invitation of Nankana Sahib Sikh Yatree Jatha president Swaran Singh Gill. "I receive information of at least two cases of abduction of Hindu and Sikh girls in a week," he said. There are organized gangs of mullahs and terrorists, who even abduct minor girls of minority communities and procure their age certificates with Muslim names from madrassas proving them adults. "In such cases we can't do much to save the children," he added.

    Chopra, who is MP from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, formerly known as the North-West Frontier Province, said, "Being a soft target, many Hindus and Sikhs are abducted from the province for ransom, but cases of forced conversion are more in Sindh province. Those who can't bear their persecution anymore often think of migrating to India as they are not financially sound enough to shift to European countries."

    "Being a minority MP, I have always been raising issues in the parliament and demanding protection for minorities, but that's all I can do," he said.

    Chopra squarely blamed Pakistan Evacuee Trust Property Board (PETPB) chairman Sayed Asif Hashmi for doling out gurdwara and temple properties. "PETPB is acquiring the properties, selling them to builders at higher prices and there is no one to stop all this," he added.

    Meanwhile, Swaran Singh, who often takes Sikh jathas to Pakistan, asked him to press Pakistan government for increasing the frequency of jathas from India.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...usiness-in-Pak-PML-MP/articleshow/9763515.cms
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Actually What is written in Article is right.Muslims consider Hindu's as enemies,***** ,idol worshippers moreover few repoirts on attack on muslims in India could provoke to attack Hindu's .On the other hand apart from UK there is no Sikh muslim dispute going on

    Also Historically One of the main reason of rise of Sikhism was Fear of muslims in area's of Pakistan ,there was a time when I was very much interested to know when and why my ancestors embraced Sikhism,were they warriors ? I found no evidence that they were warriors ,infact it was my 7th generation that embraced Sikhism.I used to ask lot from my late grandmother about her childhood life village and she told me that there were no hindu's in her village or nearby village the only minority was sikhs ,so the possibility of all hindu's embracing sikhism because of faith is small.The possible reason could be that Sikhs were either feared or respected as my grandmother told me that her family was very much respected in the village
     
  6. spnadmin

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    So much of local politics is grounded in deeply ingrained Hindu hatred. It seems then that almost any political choice or political sentiment might rise from hatred of Hindus, rather than from some other motivation.

    Sometimes Sikhs are the object of muslim terrorism and political suppression in Pakistan. We have tons of examples of that posted here. Is it possible that hatred of Hindus is so great that it blinds us to other ways in which Sikhs and the quom are being tormented. Almost a case of "identification with the agressor." By that I mean, the inference can be that Sikhs willingly accept the Hindu hatred of their Muslim majorities in Pakistan.

    Maybe they have to do that in order to survive.

    I am not seeing any connection however between wanting to eliminate "patits" from visiting the gurdwaras, and Hindus. Per the first article that is.
     
  7. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Actually many of reports on attacks on Sikhs come from Indian media who is very much anti pak. Pakistani community was silent for 50 years but now slowly they are making it into mainstream pakistani society

    The emergence of the Sikh community within Pakistan

    After the creation of Pakistan the Sikh community's rights were diminished.[9] Recently the Sikh community within Pakistan has been making every effort possible to progress in Pakistan. For example Harcharan Singh became the first Sikh to join the Pakistan army. For the first time in the 58 year history of Pakistan there has a Sikh been selected into Pakistan's army. Prior to Harcharan Singh's selection in the Pakistani army no individual person who was a member of the Hindu or the Sikh community were ever enrolled in the army, but there are reports which states that the Pakistani Christian community has served in the army and some had even reached into to the ranks of a Brigadier in the army. Moreover, members of the tiny Parsi community have some representation in the Armed Forces. [10] First time in the history of Pakistan as well as in the history of Lahore a Sikh person has been appointed as a traffic Sub Inspector. Dr. Gulab Singh who is just 25 years old, is a practising homeopathic doctor and he is from the same place as Harcharan Singh (Nankana Sahib). Gulab Singh is fluent in Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, Seraiki, Sindhi, and little bit of English.[11] In yet another contribution to the Pakistani Sikh community, Pakistan Government enacted the Sikh marriage act, anand Marriage act, in November 2007. This Sikh marriage act allows not only the Sikhs in Pakistan, but also Sikhs living in anywhere in the world to register in Pakistan with the Sikh marriage act. [12] After the success of Harcharan Singh in Pakistan's army and Gulab Singh as a traffic inspector, now it's the turn of Kalyan Singh Kalyan who is the first Sikh Province Assembly Member in Pakistan and Kalyan is a member of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP).[13] The first Sikh musician also emerged on the music industry in 2009, Jassi Lailpuria, launched his first song on independence day entitled, Sohna Pakistan.[14] Rupinder Singh Magon (Rup) from the band Josh is also a superstar in Pakistan and is very popular among the youth of the country although he lives in Canada but travels to Pakistan a lot for Concerts and TV engagements. He, along with his band mate Qurram Hussain, was part of Coke Studio as well which is a big achievement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_in_Pakistan

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The question of safety of Sikhs in Pakistan will remain how much Tolerance of Sikhs will be left in Pakistan as we know that there is major infighting in Pakistan
     
  8. spnadmin

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    I think I will stick with my previous comments.

    Still unanswered is the question of why "patits" should be prevented from being included...as per the first article.

    It seems to me that Sikhism has no such inclination toward exclusion. So something else must be unstated and in the background. As expressed in that article, it sounds as if the Sikhs making appeals have internalized some exclusionary tendencies of their muslim brethren. That is how identification with the aggressor can work. One takes on the emotional coloration of the very ones who torment you.

    Survival may depend on it.

    Or, perhaps the story was hatched, this time not by GOI or the Indian Press but by some other influence peddling body with a scheme of its own. The article mystifies me.
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Actually Sizeable numbers of sikhs in Pakistan as well in India don't believe in any such concept of sehajdhari or clean shaven Sikh.Either you keep your hair or be sikh or just call yourself a Gurdwara going Hindu.I have famiily members will never talk to their nephew or neice who cuts his/her hair
     
  10. spnadmin

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    I am aware of what you report... for years aware. That does not however answer my questions. For that matter, why are hair cutters permitted in sangat, in gurdwara, on pilgrimages, etc. in India?

    This idea of gurdwara going Hindu is not new and also a personal opinion ... though perhaps defining one sort of Sikh mindset.

    I know there are gurdwaras that exclude Dalits.

    I am asking really about the growing trend of Wahhabism among Sikhs. Seems to me that goes counter to the idea of inclusiveness. Seems to me that the Sikhs in the first article have made some perplexing demands.

    And actually the article is about Sikhs in Pakistan...so we should direct our attention to that.
     
  11. spnadmin

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    This is quite an extreme demand to make even if one is put off by gurdwara going Hindus aka patit Sikhs. No?

    There is something fishy in this. It gets even fisher. You posted the link for the story from New to Sikhi. The story has actually gone viral on the Internet. Now we have to track down who started this. First page on a google search shows many different sites have published it. And with contradictory agendas. Will take some time to see where it originated. Extremist Sikh sites are saying that "fear" is bringing the patits to the fold, or bringing Hindus to the fold. But I am also wondering why PHP the Pak Hindu Press has also posted it.

    Note: The fear element was introduced to this story after it was first published without explanation according to my investigation.
     
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    I Don't know it is fair to call them wahabi or not.Pakistani Sikhs allow Hindu temples to hold Akhand paath and don't object to it.SGPC has banned it
     
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  13. spnadmin

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    I have raised some suspicions about the article. Added them probably after you started to respond.
     
  14. spnadmin

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    Now as I think about it, the article may be part of a broader political ploy. Many fingers in the pie where Sikhs in Pakistan are concerned. Many interests at stake. Mostly of the political meddling sort of thing. The article is now looking to me as propaganda. Now we have to find out who instigated it. And why did New to Sikhi not pick on the fact that there is no url referencing the article?
     
  15. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Comment by Amarjit Singh on April 1, 2011 at 5:22am

    Danka Ji,

    Actually, this news i got at my e-mail Inbox sent by www.youngsikhleaders.org and they in turn got the news from An excerpt from:
    Varinder Walia, The Tribune India, Edited-by W!N News Bureau.



    Regards.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    from comments section of that site
     
  16. spnadmin

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    Yes where did the Tribune get the story? What is doing in Pakistan Hindu Press?

    I am now taking a look at the logical fallacy of the very first sentence of the article.


    Also at the impression the title Rise of Sikhism in Pakistan creates. It is looking like political hype to me.

    • As if Sikhism needed to call attention to "patits" in order to rise in Pakistan. This is lame, especially since Sikhs are not rising in Pakistan but are target of oppression.
    • As if leadership in India, "especially in Punjab" was really worried about "patits."
    • Following that some Sikhs in Pakistan demand that visas be withheld from patits to keep them out of gurdwaras in Pakistan. Because their religious sentiments are hurt.

    I cannot take this seriously. I hope I have the fortitude to get to the bottom of this article. And what is the "fear" as reported on some other networks running this story, that is motivating "hindus" to keep hair, so that they can do what ?????

    Panga. It is sounding as ridiculous as SGPC asking all candidates to become armitdhari within a week, and by August 25. Is this a "related story?" http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/india/36666-akal-takht-asks-sgpc-candidates-become.html
     
  17. spnadmin

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    Disappointing, at least to me. Seems that wahhabism has political strings. :)

    One of the earliest sources for this story is Onlypunjab.com who published it on August 29, 2004 http://citynewslive.com/latest/fullstory-newsID-1650.html

    SikhSangat message board a Yahoo discusses the story on September 1, 2004 and the link is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SikhSangat/message/676

    They give a source as Tribune India, at http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040830/punjab1.htm

    When I check the link, answer "oops! not found."

    SinghSangat forum Voice of Sikhs also reported the story on August 29, 2004 under the title Fear Brings Pak Hindus to Sikh fold, and includes a picture of some "Hindus" who became Sikhs. At this link http://www.{url not allowed}/index.php?/topic/6654-fear-brings-pak-hindus-to-sikh-fold/

    Same link as above to the Tribune, but the link again does not work


    Then I searched the archives for Tribune India, period between August 29 and September 5, and was unable to locate the story http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/specials/ggs.htm Other stories for that period and on the subject of the Gurgaddi are in place.

    Maybe someone else has better eyes than I do. But the important note is that this series of articles coincides and is associated with preparations for the anniversary of Guru Granth Sahib. There were ferocious politics associated with the Gurgaddi. Example follows at this link
    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040903/punjab1.htm#1

    Now in 2011 New to Sikhi picks up the story, but they are not the first.

    Pakistan Hindu Press picks up the story on March 31 2011 but reports it as if it hapened yesterday. This time the story is connected with the Khalistan movement. Future for Khalistan and emergence of Sikhism at cost of Hinduism in Pakistan

    http://pakistanhindupost.blogspot.com/2011/03/concept-of-khalistan-and-emergence-of.html

    I will stop with this. Only to conclude that an old story, somehow associated with Badal and the Gurugaddi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which had not yet happened, and turning amrit sanchar into an instrument of political manipulation, made its way to New to Sikhi, where it is being digested by naive readers as if something to contribute to the rise of the Sikh quom is happening in Pakistan.

    p/s kds ji, The link that was given at Young Sikh Leaders did not work, but I found the story (part of it) in the google cache for Young Sikh Leaders, complete with the picture of Hindus turned Sikh. It turns out they were Sindhis http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

    It is dated March 20, 2011 and also 7 years after the fact.

    And it all happened more than 7 years ago. Well at least I know that someone was giving the cue to a group of Sindhi in Pakistan to make best use of a photo op and that there were some who definitely strove to make themselves purest of the pure by asking India to kick the "patits" out of the part of the Gurgaddi celebration based in Pakistan.


    So why is a story that is more than 7 years old being recyled by groups with very different identities: New to Sikhi, Young Sikh Leaders, and Pakistan Hindu Press?
     

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