General The Original Concept Of Akalpurakh - Dr. Gurbhagat Singh

[Kamala]

Kamala ji, you say because the gods and goddesses of other cultures aren't mentioned in bani that they are not important, but the question was do they exist per your understanding?

I would say they are not in bani because the authors never heard about them. I'm not sure too many people were talking about Thor, Isis, Hekate or Cernunnos (that ones for Sian ji, hehe) during the time of our Guru Sahiban. Most regular people would have heard it as babble.

But the Norse gods are the gods of my ancestors, so sometimes I wonder if Hindu gods existed, why not the Norse gods then? Why not any of the old gods of any ancient culture?

lol, okay but the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji also has some persian in it and other languages mixed in it that aren't even Punjabi or any languages close to the area, if they added those languages in, you would THINK that the Guru ji would also add info on the Assyrian gods, but nope, the Guru ji did not because they are not important. Also the Guru ji made the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji for everyone, not just people in the Indian Plateau!

 

[Ishna]

Well in fact Allah does get a mention. Does he exist?

Ancient gods and goddesses were left out because they weren't relevant to the audience. Hindu deities continued to be worshipped by the people the Gurus were talking to. Hence, they get a mention.

I feel that the concepts behind the inclusion of Hindu deities in Gurbani can be extended to the deities of all other cultures.

At the end of the day there is only IK ONKAR, and Nothing Else Matters.

When I think about any personified deity, I always try to think of the limitless universe, and the infinite potential of the Creative Force. When you think of that, our personified human deities are but raindrops in the ocean. Our myths and stories explain a fraction of human experience in a specific geological area for a specific group of people.

The aliens on Planet X are definately not going to believe the Hindu gods existed any more than they will identify with the Norse gods.

Hence, we have to keep climbing the ladder to get to the UNIVERSAL truth which is IK ONKAR as so sublimely explained in Gurbani in such universal terms. There is no mistaking Akaal Purakh as being some personified deity limited to the brain of, lets say, the Mayans. Anyone can relate to Sat Naam in any culture because it is BEYOND culture.

Kamala ji, try putting yourself in someone elses shoes and look at your Hindu deities (with all due respect) from the outside. Do you think, if you were a Native American Indian, that you would be able to believe in their literal existence? Do you think you'd be able to say "wow, the gods of the last 1000 years of my people are nothing, obviously the Hindu gods are the only ones that are real, with stories about places I can't relate to and figures from a history which isn't my own."

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Imho..ALLAH gets a much better "mention" than the dieties....read Bhagat NAMDEV Jis banis..how he RIDICULES these Hindu dieties....the "best" one can hope of achieving from worshipping Shiva is a ride on a buffalo....In Todays world..even the Village Dumbo would much prefer a BULLET for pillion than the Buffalo...the best one can hope to achieve by worshipping the female devis like durga etc is become a FEMALE...BHAGAT NAMDEV JI REALLY BELTS OUT the UNIVERSAL TRUTH of GURBANI...and reveals these dieties for what they really are...no APOLOGIES and NO REGRETS....just PLAIN STRAIGHT TALK...japposatnamwaheguru:

 

[Kamala]

Well in fact Allah does get a mention. Does he exist?

Ancient gods and goddesses were left out because they weren't relevant to the audience. Hindu deities continued to be worshipped by the people the Gurus were talking to. Hence, they get a mention.

I feel that the concepts behind the inclusion of Hindu deities in Gurbani can be extended to the deities of all other cultures.

At the end of the day there is only IK ONKAR, and Nothing Else Matters.

When I think about any personified deity, I always try to think of the limitless universe, and the infinite potential of the Creative Force. When you think of that, our personified human deities are but raindrops in the ocean. Our myths and stories explain a fraction of human experience in a specific geological area for a specific group of people.

The aliens on Planet X are definately not going to believe the Hindu gods existed any more than they will identify with the Norse gods.

Hence, we have to keep climbing the ladder to get to the UNIVERSAL truth which is IK ONKAR as so sublimely explained in Gurbani in such universal terms. There is no mistaking Akaal Purakh as being some personified deity limited to the brain of, lets say, the Mayans. Anyone can relate to Sat Naam in any culture because it is BEYOND culture.

Kamala ji, try putting yourself in someone elses shoes and look at your Hindu deities (with all due respect) from the outside. Do you think, if you were a Native American Indian, that you would be able to believe in their literal existence? Do you think you'd be able to say "wow, the gods of the last 1000 years of my people are nothing, obviously the Hindu gods are the only ones that are real, with stories about places I can't relate to and figures from a history which isn't my own."

Everyone knows that Allah is just another name for God, like Allah/God/Waheguru/Hari/Baghwan etc. What do you mean by "wow, the gods of the last 1000 years of my people are nothing" also if the person who was saying it IS part of ANY Sanatan religion aka Sikhism/Hinduism/Jainism/Buddhism they would know thye Do exist but my not be GOD. I agree with you saying that they are not the one and only God, but just because they are not God doesn't mean that they do not deserve respect, I also don't blame any of you for thinking about what you think, since this is Kalyug and your reasons are justified because of it. But you guys seem to be ignoring or not talking about the Gurbani quotes I mentioned earlier. Here is one for example, tell me what you think of it, since it OBVIOUSLY means that they do exist (but may not be God, they are more like dieties ^^):

ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥
गुरु ईसरु गुरु गोरखु बरमा गुरु पारबती माई ॥
Gur īsar gur gorakẖ barmā gur pārbaṯī mā▫ī.
The Guru is Shiva, the Guru is Vishnu and Brahma; the Guru is Paarvati and Lakhshmi.

Notice how the Guru shows respects and calls Parvati Devi "mai" (mai/ma/uma=mother)!

 

[Kamala]

Imho..ALLAH gets a much better "mention" than the dieties....read Bhagat NAMDEV Jis banis..how he RIDICULES these Hindu dieties....the "best" one can hope of achieving from worshipping Shiva is a ride on a buffalo....In Todays world..even the Village Dumbo would much prefer a BULLET for pillion than the Buffalo...the best one can hope to achieve by worshipping the female devis like durga etc is become a FEMALE...BHAGAT NAMDEV JI REALLY BELTS OUT the UNIVERSAL TRUTH of GURBANI...and reveals these dieties for what they really are...no APOLOGIES and NO REGRETS....just PLAIN STRAIGHT TALK...japposatnamwaheguru:

I am quite offended how you compared the village dumbo to Shiva

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

well howcome this is not criticized

What are YOUR VIEWS on this....jios..or is just a CUT/COPY/PASTE expertise at work...Contrary to what you perceived..SPN does allow freedom to all as this Article shows...Before we are entitled to ask others why not criticising/supporting while we stand by the sidelines to watch the fun..we have to contribute our own views too...or get the DELETE treatment meted out to similar articles. Lets not cry foul too much...Contribute because SPN is a DISCUSSION FORUM..not a one sided propoganda forum for any side.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I am quite offended how you compared the village dumbo to Shiva

Apologies dear sister...Shiva is NOT being compared to the village dumbo...i ma saying given a choice...any villager will prefer a pillion on a Bullet rather than the Buffalo/or buffalo gaddah... i am talking about CHOICE..
Its BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji who says..worshipping shiva will get one a buffalo ride...

 

[bscheema]

well u delete evry post made by me what that means , you have power , or u donated maximum money . keep on deleting ill keep on posting aleast some of them get chance to read views around from panth ,0

 

[bscheema]

and most post here are forwarded this one too delete it ppl had enough of your philosophy

 

[Ishna]

Kamala bheinji

I'm not sure "Allah" is just another name for God. The personality of Allah is quite different from the abstract nature of Akaal Purakh. Also Allah and Jehovah seem to be at war with each other. But are they the same being?

What do you mean by "wow, the gods of the last 1000 years of my people are nothing" also if the person who was saying it IS part of ANY Sanatan religion aka Sikhism/Hinduism/Jainism/Buddhism they would know thye Do exist but my not be GOD.

In my example I was referring to Native American Indians. Their belief system is not Sanatan.

What I'm trying to figure out here, is whether you feel that Hindu gods exist but no other gods do? Perhaps this should be discussed out of this thread. Apologies.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The word GURU in your panktee form japji sahib refers to GOD..the Creator...hence ITS GOD who is the Creator, Preserver and destroyer...showing GODS SUPREMACY over the demi-gods hsiva brahma vishnu parbatee etc etc...This is in line with GURMATT which WORSHIPS the SUPREME CREATOR and IGNORES small demi gods.

If one "Knows" the Prime Minister..one can IGNORE the "Chaprrasee"..even though the PM may still call in the chaprrasee to bring over the File that you require !! The "Chapprrasee" is still THERE..but INSIGNIFICANT if we know the PM....and thus GURMATT shows us the WAY to KNOW HIM..and we SKHS can safely IGNORE the chapprrasees The Creator has put in place.

I have ocassion to vissit Cabinet Ministers..and i notice that certian laymen/women will instantly seek out the "chapprrasee"/Agents/Vicholas... etc to ask favours..while those who know some higher ups..go straight IN...and the One who KNOWS the Minister goes IN without even Knocking..thats a Privielge GURBANI bestows on those who follow it...

Dont be offended..this is what i think and will continue to think..but it doesnt mean i DONT RESPECT what you think...thats YOUR right and I will defend it to the last of my ability as GURU TEG BAHADUR JI did in Chandni Chowk...

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

well u delete evry post made by me what that means , you have power , or u donated maximum money . keep on deleting ill keep on posting aleast some of them get chance to read views around from panth ,0

You may be surprised..i dont have any money to "donate". (not a futtee kauddee)...and i certainly have no "power" of any sort..am just a Gurmukh who follows the SGGS as my only GURU. Views from the "panth" certainly get maximum coverage here..show me a few from the sites you love to cut copy and paste from..how easy to get delusional...about money power donations...sorry not here.welcomekaur

 

[bscheema]

i would do my best of cut ,copy ,paste , the long there is need counter anti dasam philosophy . as u also did cut copy paste .smart poster u ppl made, u should make ur points, own views ,instead of deleting them , deleting a thread means no discussion to me as you encourage to do .

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

i would do my best of cut ,copy ,paste , the long there is need counter anti dasam philosophy . as u also did cut copy paste .smart poster u ppl made, u should make ur points, own views ,instead of deleting them , deleting a thread means no discussion to me as you encourage to do .

THIS POST is an example...of how SPN deals with each new post...although your didnt post any of YOUR OWN comments..it was allowed and is still being allowed...BUT many others protested about how you continue to post articles without a single line of your own views/comments...thus those got deleted. Post and arite your views..its acceptable..otherwise deletion.period. Here Gurbahgat hasnt said a single word.. or commented on nay posters posts...means such posts are virtually useless as Discussion topics..just propoganda.DELETING PROPGANDA is not same as "no discussion"...be warned.

 

[Ambarsaria]

bscheema veer ji me or anyone else are not anyone's enemies. I have not physically met even one person from this forum. To post here is a privilege and not a right. That is how I treat my interactions.

Beligerence and tone of your message does not seem to recognize this basic aspect at spn.

i would do my best of cut ,copy ,paste , the long there is need counter anti dasam philosophy . as u also did cut copy paste .smart poster u ppl made, u should make ur points, own views ,instead of deleting them , deleting a thread means no discussion to me as you encourage to do .

It appears you have great interest in Dasam Granth and associated aspects. There is a section devoted entirely to this as well in the following,

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth/

I have little detailed knowledge of DG myself and has some but not overwhelming personal interest in it.

So that there is no doubt,

• You don't love or respect our Guru ji's more than anyone else on this forum and neither do I
• Each person is free to focus their study or dialog in areas that interests them
  • You or I cannot force or have any rights to force
• Posting in wrong sections in the name of it will give exposure to a subject that it may not get if posted in proper section so devoted is dis-respectful
  • It destroys the core essence of sub-sections and delineations that help people find and interact accordingly
• Simply giving URLs or cut and paste from other places is essentially a lame way to contribute unless you provide your associated comments and understanding to go with it
  • Most people are adults here and childish comments like the following only make you look bad and does not enhance anything,
    • "...... i would do my best of cut ,copy ,paste , the long there is need counter anti dasam philosophy ."
• Post the stuff in right sections with your understanding and value add and I am sure you will see people participate
  • They may not all think like you or agree with you, but in a forum one has to be a fool to assume that in all they post, everyone will agree with them

I believe you have wisdom and can positively interact. However the mode in most of your posts, has created at least negative feelings for me when I read them. These appear to be either propaganda, only I know the truth, everyone here is an enemy, etc. The world just is not like that.

Humbly submitted if it helps.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Kamala]

Apologies dear sister...Shiva is NOT being compared to the village dumbo...i ma saying given a choice...any villager will prefer a pillion on a Bullet rather than the Buffalo/or buffalo gaddah... i am talking about CHOICE..
Its BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji who says..worshipping shiva will get one a buffalo ride...

Well, you have to remember on what times when there was no motorcycle back in the day, so what do you think is better? Besides cows are very sacred in Hinduism. Also I forgive you, but not sure if the Gurus will or Shiva, since the Guru has said Shiva is Guru as well & if you do paath everyday, you would know that.

Kamala bheinji

I'm not sure "Allah" is just another name for God. The personality of Allah is quite different from the abstract nature of Akaal Purakh. Also Allah and Jehovah seem to be at war with each other. But are they the same being?



In my example I was referring to Native American Indians. Their belief system is not Sanatan.

What I'm trying to figure out here, is whether you feel that Hindu gods exist but no other gods do? Perhaps this should be discussed out of this thread. Apologies.

I am pretty sure Allah is another name for God, please don't twist it around. Also a native american has nothing to do with Hinduism since they are not even in Sanatan Dharm. Now if they converted to ANY Sanatan Dharam they will forget their dieties or still respect them but the Devis and Devs will always be #3, Guru/Avatar #2, God #1


bscheema what seems to be the problem with Gyani Jarnail ji?

 

[Ishna]

I am pretty sure Allah is another name for God, please don't twist it around. Also a native american has nothing to do with Hinduism since they are not even in Sanatan Dharm. Now if they converted to ANY Sanatan Dharam they will forget their dieties or still respect them but the Devis and Devs will always be #3, Guru/Avatar #2, God #1

The word "Allah" does mean "God", but if you actually read the Quran, a picture develops of that being's personality, directions It gives for Muslims to follow, etc. In the same way Jehovah gives to his people. Which is very different from the Purakh described in Gurbani. So I'm not trying to "twist it around" but observing that the descriptions in the relevant scriptures give me the impression of separate gods.

Yes, you got it, Native Americans don't have anything to do with Hinduism, hence why I've asked you what you believe about the existance of their Gods (or Mayans, or ancient Greeks, or Asatruar, or Celts, etcetcetc).

At the end of the day I'm only going to be concerning myself with Ik Onkar / Naam as recommended by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but each to their own.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

a picture develops of that being's personality,

Isi He created a few billion personalities so he might know a bit more about it than us,lets just hope he does not have a personality disorder or it might be that we project our flaws onto him.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Wonderfully said by my brother SP ji.

Isi He created a few billion personalities so he might know a bit more about it than us,lets just hope he does not have a personality disorder.

In SGGS it is mentioned in terms of deities and names as to millions of Shiva, Krishna, etc., in creation. The logic fundamentally is that this fetish on a specific Krishna, Rama, Vishnu, Shiva is simply that. Creator has created millions (uncountable many) variations to suit the needs and not one specific is of any greater or lesser significance.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

deities and names as to millions of Shiva, Krishna,

These respected Avatars must be the movie trailer projections of the master Truth.