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Gurus The Gurus' Wives?

Discussion in 'History of Sikhism' started by Roger, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Roger

    Roger
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    Hi,

    May I ask a question about Gurus, who were married? Did any of the Gurus' wife received enlightenment (Jeevan-mukti, I'm told it's called)? Actually, is there another being, besides the 10 Gurus, who has received it?

    Regards
    Roger
     
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  3. spnadmin

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    All of the Gurus were married with the exception of Guru Harkhrishan who died of small pox at the age of nine years. He served small-pox victims tirelessly during an epidemic and then himself was taken by the illness.

    It is said that the wife of Guru Gobind Singh, Mata Ajit Kaur, achieved mukhti. However the stories about the lives of the Gurus are in many cases difficult to verify.

    Roger ji - I also think we need a better title for this thread. What are you trying to find out?

    Did any wife of a Sikh Guru achieve mukhti? Or has anyone other than one of our Sikh gurus, in general, achieved mukhti?
     
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  4. Randip Singh

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    I would like to know what do you mean by Jeevan Mukhti?
     
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Guru Harkishan Ji passed away at age NINE..not nineteen jios...
     
  6. Roger

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    Sorry, I spelled it differently but here's the source where I read it:
    "JIVAN-MUKTA in Sikhism the ideal and aim or objective of man’s spiritual life. The term is derived from jivan-mukti (jivan=life; mukti=release, liberation, emancipation freedom from bondage), and means one who has attained liberation from human bondage or one who has attained to the highest spiritual state of being in tune with the Ultimate while still living. "
    Jivan mukta - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

    Cheers
    Raj
     
  7. Roger

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    Sure, I have no issues in changing the title! I just wanted to know if anyone else has ever achieved the enlightened state that Guru Nanak did? I thought Guru's wife would be the most likely person to start with, due to their proximity and relationship. One website goes as far as to say -

    "The Sikh marriage is not merely a physical and legal contract but is a holy union between two souls where physically they appear as two individual bodies but in fact are united as one." Sikhism - The Sikh Marriage


    Hence, my question!

    At the end of the day, if obtaining liberation from the cycle of rebirths (enlightenment,) is the desired outcome, in one's lifetime, I am keen to know, who else have had this privilage! There has to be someone, one would think?

    Roger
     
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  8. Randip Singh

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    I thought the Highest spiritual state in Sikhi was to be one with God i.e. a Gurmukh, not to want to escape ones physical body?

    PS SIkhiwiki is a wikipediaand can be edited by any Tom, **** and Harjeet, so I would not necessarily trust definitions from there.
     
  9. spnadmin

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    I think the idea of "Jeevan mukhti" is escape from the cycle of life and death, and not so much an escape from the physical body.

    To reframe the title of this thread, Roger ji: You now seem to be asking whether any wife of a Sikh Guru escaped from the cycle of life and death. And as I replied earlier, the only commentary that I know of concerns Mata Ajit Kaur -- and the story is not easy to document.

    That being said -- the idea of husband and wife being united as one soul in marriage with the Spiritual Bridegroom takes the discussion into a different direction.

    Because -- if I follow your logic correctly-- you are asking whether any wife of a Sikh Guru, who achieved "jeevan mukhti," also achieved her "jeevan mukhti" because Guru and wife were united as souls in marriage.

    Liberated Guru = liberated wife of Guru.
    That would be your premise.Can the question be answered? Let's go back to Mata Ajit Kaur. She died before her husband, Guru Gobind Singh -- in fact some time before he died. So if indeed she escaped the cycle of life and death - achieved jeevan mukhti -- she managed that on her own. It is said she left her physical body with the "blessing of her husband" but nonetheless she managed it on her own. And there is no way to verify this conclusion either.

    So now we are headed in a very academic direction regarding matters that cannot be proved one way or the other, and without witnesses, and all will be based on pure conjecture.

    What is not pure conjecture is that Gurbani tells us that we travel on the journey of life and death alone. We become Gurmukh (as Randip said above, "liberation comes in becoming Gurmukh), when we are united with Naam.



    ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
    aasaa mehalaa 4 ||
    Aasaa, Fourth Mehl:


    ਤੂੰ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਮੈਡਾ ਸਾਂਈ ॥
    thoon karathaa sachiaar maiddaa saanee ||
    You are the True Creator, my Lord and Master.

    ਜੋ ਤਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਥੀਸੀ ਜੋ ਤੂੰ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਹਉ ਪਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    jo tho bhaavai soee thheesee jo thoon dhaehi soee ho paaee ||1|| rehaao ||
    Whatever pleases You comes to pass. As You give, so do we receive. ||1||Pause||

    ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂੰ ਸਭਨੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥
    sabh thaeree thoon sabhanee dhhiaaeiaa ||
    All belong to You, all meditate on you.

    ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਨਾਮ ਰਤਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    jis no kirapaa karehi thin naam rathan paaeiaa ||
    Those who are blessed with Your Mercy obtain the Jewel of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਧਾ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥
    guramukh laadhhaa manamukh gavaaeiaa ||
    The Gurmukhs obtain it, and the self-willed manmukhs lose it.


    ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪਿ ਵਿਛੋੜਿਆ ਆਪਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
    thudhh aap vishhorriaa aap milaaeiaa ||1||
    You Yourself separate them from Yourself, and You Yourself reunite with them again. ||1||

    ਤੂੰ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਸਭ ਤੁਝ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
    thoon dhareeaao sabh thujh hee maahi ||
    You are the River of Life; all are within You.

    ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
    thujh bin dhoojaa koee naahi ||
    There is no one except You.

    ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
    jeea janth sabh thaeraa khael ||
    All living beings are Your playthings.

    ਵਿਜੋਗਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਵਿਛੁੜਿਆ ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ਮੇਲੁ ॥੨॥
    vijog mil vishhurriaa sanjogee mael ||2||
    The separated ones meet, and by great good fortune, those suffering in separation are reunited once again. ||2||

    ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਤੂ ਜਾਣਾਇਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਜਨੁ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
    jis no thoo jaanaaeihi soee jan jaanai ||
    They alone understand, whom You inspire to understand;

    ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਸਦ ਹੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥
    har gun sadh hee aakh vakhaanai ||
    they continually chant and repeat the Lord's Praises.

    ਜਿਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    jin har saeviaa thin sukh paaeiaa ||
    Those who serve You find peace.

    ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੩॥
    sehajae hee har naam samaaeiaa ||3||
    They are intuitively absorbed into the Lord's Name. ||3ll

    This Shabad is telling us that becoming Gurmukh we are absorbed in the Naam, and that this happens according to God's mercy and according to His will. This "liberation" is available to any and all, Guru's wives are not excluded. Being married is not a requirement. Being married to a Sikh Guru likewise gives no special advantage.

    And in becoming Gurmukh we take our family and our friends with us. "Across the world ocean." And this liberation is not dependent on having died. It can happen in one's life time.

    It would be good to post some Shabads in order to explore what Sri Guru Granth Sahib has to say instead of following some very hypothetical directions involving the wives of Gurus.
     
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  10. Arvind

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    Recently my understanding is that a sikh seeks to stay in His will. Jivan Mukti or not is not a concern!!! With Naam Daan, a sikh seeks to live as He wants him to live. If He takes one out of churaasi it is fine, if not that too is fine. Staying in Hukam sounds like the aim or objective of man's spiritual life.
     
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  11. BhagatSingh

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    Does one make any efforts to achieve this objective?
     
  12. Roger

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    Okay. Please allow me to re-phrase the question I originally posted. In the past 500+ years, has there been a Sikh, known to Sikh community, who has achieved enlightenment? (A Sikh friend of mine has told me that enlightenment is achieved in one's lifetime.)

    Regards
    Roger
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    The Ten GURUS....the Hundreds of THOUSANDS of MARTYRS...shaheeds.... are ALL KNOWN to the Sikh Community and they all achieved enlightenment while ALIVE. They are Jeewan Mukt. The Sahibzaddehs who died in Chamkaur and in Sirhind are Jeewn Mukt...the list is endless....leading into the 21st Century...1984...Blue Star and Beyond.

    However there is ONE FRAUD..who is also known to the Sikh Community who claims he is Jeewna Mukt..BUT he is NOT..he is a LIAR..his name is Sewa Singh Tarmala who runs a schoold for "Brahmgyanis"..he he he...Certainly NOT a Jeewan Mukt type !! Mnay other such Fraudlaent Brahmgyanis...sants...mahapurashes....:up: Jeewan MURDEH as they eat MURDAAR..( Haak Praya )
     
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  14. Arvind

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    Being humble and seeking His blessings is the effort to achieve it.

    Gurprasad!
     
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  15. spnadmin

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    Heh Heh - Are you saying there is only one fraud?
     
  16. Roger

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    "the Hundreds of THOUSANDS of MARTYRS...shaheeds.... are ALL KNOWN to the Sikh Community and they all achieved enlightenment while ALIVE. They are Jeewan Mukt. The Sahibzaddehs who died in Chamkaur and in Sirhind are Jeewn Mukt...the list is endless....leading into the 21st Century...1984...Blue Star and Beyond." Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Hi Gyani,

    Wow! So,if one dies as a martyr, or killed in a religious violence - he/she is Jeevan Mukt. And who is your source of this information? Is it written in the Sikhism's holy book?
    Thanks
    Roger
     
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Hi Roger Ji,

    The "Martyrs" I write about are those who CHOSE...by their own FREEWILL to DIE instead of "saving their skins". Baba Deep Singh Ji Chose to STAY ALIVE...while he served out his Mission....to secure freedom for Harmandar sahib...

    A "jeewan Mukt" has achieved his ultimate "destination" while ALIVE...and he seeks to continue along his chosen "path"...and prefers PHYSICAL DEATH instead of changing his direction/path just to stay alive.

    Not everyone who "dies" in a battle..riot..etc is a "martyr" or a Jeewan Mukt. Many died in the Genocide of 1984..Operation bluestar etc...some "may" have changed their mind about DYING..IF Given such a choice....so VOLUNTARY, CHOICE exercised through FREEWILL is an essential part of being a Jeewan Mukt.

    Gurbani declares that in Gurmatt it is JEEWAN MUKT that is the GOAL !! Gurmatt is not concerned with giving inducements..rewards etc in "heaven"..or in "Hell"....that is when a Person has DIED and essentially NO ONE CAN either see/decide what has happened to him...its ALL MERE CONJECTURE....wishful PROPOGANDA...so and so is in HEAVEN..blah blah blah..so and so is in HELL..blah blah blah...no one KNOWS...as no one has ever returned form there to relate what really happens in heaven/hell !!!..OR even IF there is anyone actually THERE ??? SO Gurmatt AVOIDS this and advises one to achieve JEEWAN MUKT while still ALIVE !! KNOW what one wants..work TOWARDS that GOAL...if possible while still YOUNG..so the GOAL can be pursued with Youthful VIGOUR....This is WHY children as YOUNG as FIVE..(Sahibzadah Zorawar Singh ) CHOSE to STAY on their GOAL/PATH even IF it meant PHYSICAL DEATH !! Saving their Skins meant thay have to ABANDON their GOAL....already achieved....just to have a few more years of life....especially since such "save your life" meant that one still had to DIE one day !!

    Warm Regards..Have a Nice day and Keep in Chardeekalla Jios..
     
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Narayan Ji...

    HA !!

    Of course I dont mean there is only "ONE" Fraudster...BUT...YES this SEWA SINGH is ONE who has a "SCHOOL" for Brahmgyanis....and He publicly claims that.."I have GOT IT !!..I have ARRIVED....I ma a BRAHMGYANI..I am GOD !!..and I can make others...like myself..(provided of course you follow him and enroll at his school - which is NOT FREE btw !!so Brahmgyanism is not cheap !! It costs real BUCKS. ( The times when Guru Arjun Ji gave away the Entire SGGS as a GIFT are long GONE ) No more free lunches..(except Guru Ka Langgars in Gurdwaras ) This Fraud is completley unfazed by the fact that in the entire 1429 pages of SGGS..not a single line says.."I HAVE GOT IT..I am a Brahmgyani..I am GOD..etc..etc..BUT plenty of lines that declare..I am Your DOG..oh Creator..I am Your servant oh Father...etc etc types of utter HUMILITY.....so the GURU says something..his so called chela/follower says something else !!..a sure fire proof of a SNAKE OIL MERCHANT !!

    Keep in Chardeekalla Jios..
     
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  19. Roger

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    Gyani,

    Thanks for the post. Personally, I find your expressed thoughts more like “wishful thinking,” rather than, the truth.

    “A "jeewan Mukt" has achieved his ultimate "destination" while ALIVE...and he seeks to continue along his chosen "path"...and prefers PHYSICAL DEATH instead of changing his direction/path just to stay alive.”


    How does one know he/she has received “jeewan mukt”?

    SO Gurmatt AVOIDS this and advises one to achieve JEEWAN MUKT while still ALIVE !! KNOW what one wants..work TOWARDS that GOAL...if possible while still YOUNG..so the GOAL can be pursued with Youthful VIGOUR....This is WHY children as YOUNG as FIVE..(Sahibzadah Zorawar Singh ) CHOSE to STAY on their GOAL/PATH even IF it meant PHYSICAL DEATH !! “


    What has age (being young or old) got to do with it?

    I appreciate your “youthful vigour” but frankly, I think your answers are mumbo-jumbo, and they are not based on or backed by Sikhism’s holy book.

    Regards
    Roger
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Roger Ji..
    You are most welcome Ji. I have reached my limit...perhaps you seek something i dont have/cant provide.

    1. ONLY a "jeewan Mukt" can possibly know/tell you..exactly "how" he achieved it. I only depend on what they DID/DO. Jeewan Mukt is not something one can see ..like one sees the tree/water etc. Jeewan Mukt is a STATE of well being..one with the Creator.

    2. AGE is just mentioned...one need not be a grey-beard to achieve JM....Bhai Amardass Ji achieved it at age 80+..Zorawar Singh at age 5....maybe earlier even !! The Bhagats like ravidass Kabir Ji etc were also JM....even though they lived till natural death - no martyrdom/choice ??

    3. "youthful vigour..mumbo jumbo..are just words...with no backing either...

    Regards Ji.:happysingh:
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    I think the conversation needs a fresh start. I have not achieved mukhti and perhaps my haumei may be forgiven by forum members.

    The questions, what is jeevan mukhti, how does one get it, who has it, and how do we know for sure that so and so achieved it, are common to the point of being mind-numbing. They may even be fruitless because the answers depend on tangible proofs of intangible qualities. It is very likely that someone who achieved jeevan mukhti in this lifetime cannot explain the mechanics of it but might try just to be helpful. It is not a matter of techniques that can be demonstrated and tested like taking a rifle apart and putting it back together again. In Sikhism Shabad Guru gives us a different approach so that we do not become frustrated. The answer is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji -- and in fact each and every shabad is a key. Here is an example. It is not the only example.

    The shabad is by Guru Ram Das, in raag Aasaa, on Ang 11.

    ਤੂੰ ਘਟ ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਜੀ ਹਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥
    thoon ghatt ghatt anthar sarab niranthar jee har eaeko purakh samaanaa ||
    You are constant in each and every heart, and in all things. O Dear Lord, you are the One.



    ਇਕਿ ਦਾਤੇ ਇਕਿ ਭੇਖਾਰੀ ਜੀ ਸਭਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਚੋਜ ਵਿਡਾਣਾ ॥
    eik dhaathae eik bhaekhaaree jee sabh thaerae choj viddaanaa ||
    Some are givers, and some are beggars. This is all Your Wondrous Play.



    ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਦਾਤਾ ਆਪੇ ਭੁਗਤਾ ਜੀ ਹਉ ਤੁਧੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥
    thoon aapae dhaathaa aapae bhugathaa jee ho thudhh bin avar n jaanaa ||
    You Yourself are the Giver, and You Yourself are the Enjoyer. I know no other than You.



    ਤੂੰ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬੇਅੰਤੁ ਬੇਅੰਤੁ ਜੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਕਿਆ ਗੁਣ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣਾ ॥
    thoon paarabreham baeanth baeanth jee thaerae kiaa gun aakh vakhaanaa ||
    You are the Supreme Lord God, Limitless and Infinite. What Virtues of Yours can I speak of and describe?



    ਜੋ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਜੋ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਜੀ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਿਨ ਕੁਰਬਾਣਾ ॥੨॥
    jo saevehi jo saevehi thudhh jee jan naanak thin kurabaanaa ||2||
    Unto those who serve You, unto those who serve You, Dear Lord, servant Nanak is a sacrifice. ||2||



    ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਜੀ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਸੁਖਵਾਸੀ ॥
    har dhhiaavehi har dhhiaavehi thudhh jee sae jan jug mehi sukhavaasee ||
    Those who meditate on You, Lord, those who meditate on You-those humble beings dwell in peace in this world.


    ਸੇ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਸੇ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਭਏ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਜੀ ਤਿਨ ਤੂਟੀ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸੀ ॥
    sae mukath sae mukath bheae jin har dhhiaaeiaa jee thin thoottee jam kee faasee ||
    They are liberated, they are liberated-those who meditate on the Lord. For them, the noose of death is cut away.


    ਜਿਨ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਜੀ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਸਭੁ ਗਵਾਸੀ ॥
    jin nirabho jin har nirabho dhhiaaeiaa jee thin kaa bho sabh gavaasee ||
    Those who meditate on the Fearless One, on the Fearless Lord-all their fears are dispelled.



    ਜਿਨ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਿਨ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਸਮਾਸੀ ॥
    jin saeviaa jin saeviaa maeraa har jee thae har har roop samaasee ||
    Those who serve, those who serve my Dear Lord, are absorbed into the Being of the Lord, Har, Har.


    ਸੇ ਧੰਨੁ ਸੇ ਧੰਨੁ ਜਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਜੀ ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਿਨ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਸੀ ॥੩॥
    sae dhhann sae dhhann jin har dhhiaaeiaa jee jan naanak thin bal jaasee ||3||
    Blessed are they, blessed are they, who meditate on their Dear Lord. Servant Nanak is a sacrifice to them. ||3||



    ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਭੰਡਾਰ ਜੀ ਭਰੇ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥
    thaeree bhagath thaeree bhagath bhanddaar jee bharae bianth baeanthaa ||
    Devotion to You, devotion to You, is a treasure overflowing, infinite and beyond measure.


    ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਜੀ ਹਰਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਨੰਤਾ ॥
    thaerae bhagath thaerae bhagath salaahan thudhh jee har anik anaek ananthaa ||
    Your devotees, Your devotees praise You, Dear Lord, in many and various and countless ways.



    ਤੇਰੀ ਅਨਿਕ ਤੇਰੀ ਅਨਿਕ ਕਰਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਜੀ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪਹਿ ਜਪਹਿ ਬੇਅੰਤਾ ॥
    thaeree anik thaeree anik karehi har poojaa jee thap thaapehi japehi baeanthaa ||
    For You, many, for You, so very many perform worship services, O Dear Infinite Lord; they practice disciplined meditation and chant endlessly.



    ਤੇਰੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਪੜਹਿ ਬਹੁ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਜੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਿਆ ਖਟੁ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੰਤਾ ॥
    thaerae anaek thaerae anaek parrehi bahu simrith saasath jee kar kiriaa khatt karam karanthaa ||
    For You, many, for You, so very many read the various Simritees and Shaastras. They perform rituals and religious rites.


    ਸੇ ਭਗਤ ਸੇ ਭਗਤ ਭਲੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੀ ਜੋ ਭਾਵਹਿ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਵੰਤਾ ॥੪॥
    sae bhagath sae bhagath bhalae jan naanak jee jo bhaavehi maerae har bhagavanthaa ||4||
    Those devotees, those devotees are sublime, O servant Nanak, who are pleasing to my Dear Lord God. ||4||



    ਤੂੰ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਅਪਰੰਪਰੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀ ਤੁਧੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ॥
    thoon aadh purakh aparanpar karathaa jee thudhh jaevadd avar n koee ||
    You are the Primal Being, the Most Wonderful Creator. There is no other as Great as You.


    ਤੂੰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਏਕੋ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਏਕੋ ਜੀ ਤੂੰ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਸੋਈ ॥
    thoon jug jug eaeko sadhaa sadhaa thoon eaeko jee thoon nihachal karathaa soee ||
    Age after age, You are the One. Forever and ever, You are the One. You never change, O Creator Lord.



    ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਵਰਤੈ ਜੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
    thudhh aapae bhaavai soee varathai jee thoon aapae karehi s hoee ||
    Everything happens according to Your Will. You Yourself accomplish all that occurs.



    ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਭ ਉਪਾਈ ਜੀ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਸਿਰਜਿ ਸਭ ਗੋਈ ॥
    thudhh aapae srisatt sabh oupaaee jee thudhh aapae siraj sabh goee ||
    You Yourself created the entire universe, and having fashioned it, You Yourself shall destroy it all.



    ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਕਰਤੇ ਕੇ ਜੀ ਜੋ ਸਭਸੈ ਕਾ ਜਾਣੋਈ ॥੫॥੧॥
    jan naanak gun gaavai karathae kae jee jo sabhasai kaa jaanoee ||5||1||
    Servant Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Dear Creator, the Knower of all. ||5||1||

    This is not a difficult idea: The "noose of death is cut away" through seva to the Guru. How does one proceed?


    ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਕਰਤੇ ਕੇ ਜੀ ਜੋ ਸਭਸੈ ਕਾ ਜਾਣੋਈ ॥੫॥੧॥
    jan naanak gun gaavai karathae kae jee jo sabhasai kaa jaanoee ||5||1||
    Servant Nanak sings the Glorious Praises of the Dear Creator, the Knower of all. ||5||1||

    It is less taxing if one starts with a shabad and then proceeds. A serious vichaar of this Shabad will answer your questions Roger ji.
     
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