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Islam The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by muslim, Feb 4, 2005.

  1. muslim

    muslim
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    The Great Challenge to Produce
    One Chapter Like the Chapters
    of the Holy Quran


    God has said in the Quran:

    [​IMG] And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad [​IMG]), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow....[​IMG] (Quran, 2:23-25)

    Ever since the Quran was revealed, fourteen centuries ago, no one has been able to produce a single chapter like the chapters of the Quran in their beauty, eloquence, splendor, wise legislation, true information, true prophecy, and other perfect attributes. Also, note that the smallest chapter in the Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet this challenge, then or today.1 Some of the disbelieving Arabs who were enemies of the Prophet Muhammad [​IMG] tried to meet this challenge to prove that Muhammad [​IMG] was not a true prophet, but they failed to do so.2 This failure was despite the fact that the Quran was revealed in their own language and dialect and that the Arabs at the time of Muhammad [​IMG] were a very eloquent people who used to compose beautiful and excellent poetry, still read and appreciated today.

    [​IMG]
    The smallest chapter in the Holy Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, yet no one has ever been able to meet the challenge to produce one chapter like the chapters of the Holy Quran.

     
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  3. Neutral Singh

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    ok ! The smallest chapter in the Holy Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words. I could not make head or tail of your post.

    What is written in Chapter 108 ?
    What is the message in the Chapter ?
    What is the Challenge?
    Who Challenged ?
    Why Challenged ?

    Please be specific and clear in your posts so that we do no have to roll our eyes as the reason and purpose of your posts.

    Regards
     
  4. muslim

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    What is written in Chapter 108 ?
    What is the message in the Chapter ?
    What is the Challenge?
    Who Challenged ?
    Why Challenged ?


    I would just like to quote:

    "... The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Qur'an-and peradventure something of the charm in English. It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so..." [Marmaduke Pickthall, 1930]
    [​IMG]
    (A River in Paradise) The One-Hundred and Eighth Surah of the Qur'aan
    [​IMG]
    1. Lo! We have given thee Abundance;

    2. So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice.

    3. Lo! it is thy insulter (and not thou) who is without
    posterity.

    The challenge is to produce a chapter like that of the quran, with beauty, eloquence, splendor, wise legislation, true information, true prophecy, and other perfect attributes.

    The challenge is to anyone and everyone if they wish to challenge the authenticity of the quran. The challengers were the peots of arabia.(because an iliterate man produced finer literacy then any arab had ever seen or heard, "beating" them at their own game)


     
    #3 muslim, Feb 4, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  5. vijaydeep Singh

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    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
    Bissmillah Al Raham Al Raheem

    poor little child mr. 'muslim' do you know what is meant by Harrfe Muqqat of Holy Kuran.

    Have you reached the stage of understanding them.If not then you are not fit to preach Islam to others.Untill a person himself is not sure about his own faith then how can he teach others.

    To all other Sangat.

    The holy Kuran contains some 'free' or Muaqqat letter at starts of many chapters or Sura.The person who starts to understand then is termed as living salvaged or in state of Haq Haq Agah.They are letters or Harrf which are free(muqqat) but also give Mukti or Salvation.

    But for that faith in Allah,without fear is must.Then a state is reached where there is no division of Sikhs,Muslim or Hindu as Allah by self is not Muslim or Hindu.

    Das is giving only an example Alif(a) Noon(n) Meem(m).

    They may be saying Al(The) Nanak Muhafizz(protector).It may means the professe of advent of first master in Holy Kuran,the way Angeel as per Naik of qtv state that comferter to come was not holy ghost but Rasool.

    again holy ghost is Rooh ul quddus

    And again Allah nadir Muqqadus. Allah omni visible holy.

    Now does come chapter (2,23-24)

    As Kuran can not be tranlated so it is not the child play to understand it either.

    Allah did made unequalble verse in Kuran at one time.Is Allah bounded by any law that Allah can not make a bit bigger or Better verse in future.

    Das just want to ask does not Allah ,who is omni potent can not repeat a bigger work in future.Does present Day Muslim control Allah or rather they are under the control of Allah.

    Say Allah made Heaven and Hell OK.As all is amde by Allah OK.So there was time that heaven or Hell did not exist.Suppose if there is will of Allah to destroy Heaven or hell or river of heaven.Where will you go little 'Muslim'.Allah can destroy what Allah has made.

    If you say not then you are doing shirk(saying that there is any other power in existance but Allah).

    So Allah ho Baqi Bin Tulle Fani(other then Allah all perish).Instead of greed of heaven and luxery over there or fear of pain of hell,Let there be a suurender(Islam) to Allah,Let there be love to Allah(Thats what Gurmat or Sikh Faith teaches).

    Das repeats that interacting with Islamic schoolars is not the work of Nirmalas but of Seva Panthis(As they are more learned in this field and professionally qualified) but there is not hard and fast rule or there is any rigid rule like castes of hindus.But there was a chance to sing the glory of Akal so Das could not resisit.
     
  6. manbir

    manbir India
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    Try to improve on this if you can !!!!


    One Universal Creator, The Name Is Truth, Creative Being Personified, No Fear,
    No Hatred, Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent, By Guru's Grace.
     
  7. muslim

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    Well heres some more info on the challenge, and all i can say is subahallah.

    The Challenge, Sura like it:
    Please produce a sura like it, that has the following criteria. You can write it in either Arabic, English or any other language of your choice. Arabic will meet all the criteria as it is the language of the Quran, however using any other language to try to achieve all the rest of the criteria will be acceptable. This means the challenge is open to all the human beings in all the languages:
    (1) Choose any sura in the Quran to produce one like it.You can choose a short sura or a long sura. The shortest suras have Basmallah (verse one of sura one) and three verses.
    (2) Any Sura, should start with a verse that has all the qualities of Basmallah (Verse1, Sura 1), as God insisted on posting the Basmallah on top of all the suras (except the long Sura 9 that has its own mathematical structure.) This verse is considered part of these suras and considered as verse 0 of each of these suras as far as the numbering of the verses is considered. See our file, The order of the Suras of the Quran, Another miracle.
    Here are the criteria for the requirements to be met in the verse that would replace the Basmallah:
    (to see how these criteria exist in the Basmallah, check the file BEYOND PROBABILITY: (unzipped file), or BEYOND PROBABILITY: (zipped file).
    FACT 1. The verse should consists of 19 letters.
    FACT 2. The sequence number of each word in the verse followed by the number of letters in it forms a number which is a multiple of 19.
    FACT 3. Replace the number of letters in each word in Fact 2 by the total gematrical value of that word. Thus, the sequence number of each word is followed by its total gematrical value, to form a number which is a multiple of 19:
    FACT 4. If you replace the total gematrical value of each word in Fact 3 by the gematrical value of every letter in that word you should get a number which is a multiple of 19.
    FACT 5. If you insert the sequence number of each letter in the word before its gematrical value in Fact 4 you should get a number which is a multiple of 19.
    FACT 6. If you replace the total gematrical value of each word in Fact 3 by the sum of the gematrical values of the first and the last letter in that word you should get a number which is a multiple of 19:
    FACT 7. Consider the numbers used in Fact 2 and Fact 3. In Fact 2, the sequence number of each word is followed by the number of letters in the word. In Fact 3, we replace the number letters by the gematrical values of the words Now, for this case, the sequence number of each word will be followed by the sum of the number of letters and the gematrical value of the word. This should form a number which is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 8. Consider Fact 2, where the sequence number of each word in the Basmalah is followed by the number of letters in the word. In this case, the sequence number of each word will be followed by the total number of letters up to and including that word (cumulative total). The result should be a number which is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 9. This fact is very similar to Fact 8. In this fact, instead of using the cumulative total number of letters for each word, use the cumulative total of the gematrical values of the letters corresponding to the word. For example, the gematrical value of the letters in the Basmalah's four words (i.e. verse1, sura 1) are 102, 66, 329 and 289, respectively. Then the cumulative total of the gematrical values of the letters will be 102 for the first word. It will be 168 (102+66) for the second word, 497 (102+66+329) for the third word, and finally 786 (102+66+329+289) for the last word.
    Write down the sequence numbers of the words followed by the cumulative total of the gematrical values of the letters corresponding to the word. The resultant number should be a multiple of 19.
    FACT 10. The gematrical value of each letter of the verse, followed by its sequence number (1 through 19) should form a number that is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 11. Insert the sequence number of each word (1, 2, 3, and 4) at the end of each group of numbers in Fact 10 while keeping all the numbers the same. The result should be a number that is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 12. Consider the numbers in Fact 11, and replace the sequence numbers of the words (1, 2, 3, and 4) with their gematrical values , while keeping all the other numbers the same. The result should bea number, that is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 13. This time change the position of the gematrical values of the words in Fact 12, and put them preceding the words, instead of following them. The resultant number, should also be a multiple of 19:
    FACT 14. For your verse-like it, write down the following: a) Number of letters in the word, b) The total gematrical value of the word, c) The gematrical value of each letter in the word. The entire number should be a multiple of 19.
    FACT 15. In Fact 14, the total gematrical values of the words are placed second in sequence. Now, place them as the last item in each underlined word. The resultant number, should remain a multiple of 19
    FACT 16. If you represent each one of the words of your verse-like it,by the sequence number of the letters in it. If we add these numbers representing the words of your verse-like-it, the result should be a number which is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 17. Consider the numbers that represented each word of your verse-like-it in Fact 16. Instead of adding these numbers, write each one down, followed by the sequence number of the word. The result should be a number, that is a multiple of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    FACT 18. This fact is based on three numbers only. If you put the number of the words next to the number of the letters next to the total gematrical value of the whole verse-like-it, it should be a multiple of 19.
    FACT 19. If you write the number of verses in the challenge, (i.e.1), then the total number of the letters in your verse-like-it (i.e. 19) followed by the number of letters in each word , the result should be multiple of multiples of 19. See the example of Sura 1, verse 1.
    (3) After the Basmallah, complete your chosen sura-like it, and tell us which sura does it imitate. Remember that all the words used in the sura should not disturb any mathematically composed phenomenon in the rest of the suras, e.g. the total number of the word God, messenger, throne, one, merciful, gracious, name, days, months, say, prayer, charity, pilgrimage, fasting, Jesus, Muhammed, Mary, Moses, Adam, covenant, prophet....etc and should also keep the mathematical balance of certain quranic expressions.
    The gematrical values of the Arabic Alphabets are known and can be found on our web site. The gematrical value of the English Alphabets or any other language can be assumed as A=1, B=2, C= 3...etc., if you choose to write it in English or any other language. Let us know these values when you are done.
    (4) The produced sura should make complete and perfect laws or advise for moral standard and should be grammatically and linguistically sound. ​
     
  8. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    muslim
    SPN Sewadaar


    [​IMG] The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran
    The Great Challenge to Produce
    One Chapter Like the Chapters
    of the Holy Quran


    God has said in the Quran:

    [​IMG] And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad [​IMG]), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones. It has been prepared for disbelievers. And give good news (O Muhammad) to those who believe and do good deeds, that for them are gardens (Paradise) in which rivers flow....[​IMG] (Quran, 2:23-25)



    Dear Muslim, It is not a question of any challenge. The thing is that you just want to end your curiosity. It is not your fault surely because you are eager. We as SIKHS are eager but to find the GOD not in the materials,challenge like this. Because as Gursikhs we know the fact. Because we have not wasted our time for just a chapter. But gone through fully SGGSJI Maharaj. And we are enlighted enoungh in the light of SJJSJI.
    Here is slok for you and other Muslim followers.




    iqlMg mhlw 5 Gru 1 <> siqgur pRswid ] Kwk nUr krdM
    Awlm dunIAwie ] Asmwn ijmI drKq Awb pYdwieis Kudwie ]1] bMdy csm dIdM Pnwie ] dunØIAw mrdwr KurdnI gwPl hvwie ] rhwau ] gYbwn hYvwn hrwm kusqnI murdwr bKorwie ] idl kbj kbjw kwdro dojk sjwie ]2] vlI inAwmiq ibrwdrw drbwr imlk Kwnwie ] jb AjrweIlu bsqnI qb ic kwry ibdwie ]3] hvwl mwlUmu krdM pwk Alwh ] bugo nwnk Ardwis pyis drvys bMdwh ]4]1]{pMnw723}






    TILANG, FIFTH MEHL, FIRST HOUSE:
    ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU: The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe. The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. || 1 || O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish. The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. || Pause || Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. || 2 || Your benefactors, presents, companions, courts, lands and homes - when Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death seizes you, what good will these be to you then? || 3 || The Pure Lord God knows your condition. O Nanak, recite your prayer to the holy people. || 4 || 1 || {Page 723}
     
    #7 rosethorne, Oct 5, 2005
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2005
  9. 2ruakalbir

    2ruakalbir
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    muslim,
    so what??? Everything you typed means nothing. Hell, the book was written centuries after the death of the self-proclaimed profit MO-HAM-ed. Maybe Mo-Ham had a little too much bad ham. Same like you.
     
  10. hpluthera

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    I could not follow and understand the Beauty of this Chapter is it that it is 10 words only or is it that it is a challenge.

    Any thing written in Praise of Almighty Lord by Whatever Name you perceive Him and Not only Allah is a Good and not worth Challenging. But the Problem with preacher and follower of islam is that of Self Glory and Ego and then Killing others with Great Pride in the name of Allah to earn Paradise. It is written in their religion somewhere or they are misguided to follow the true Islam (which means Love) preached by Mohamad Sahib.

    Tribals of Arabs traditions were accepted in the Islam to poularise the religion and there are lot of things confusing. Arabs did not have wood to burn the dead they lived in Desert where if you bury body in sand the sun heat exumes it quickly.

    Hence they accepted bury in preference to Burn. Water is in scarcity therefore they accepted Ozzo just sprinkle water to purify instead of full bath. Bury dead with in the day because body would rotten because of local climate. So these were cultural traditions forced in view of geographical and climatic conditions in the Arab World. People were given the understanding of this as religion by stories of Paradise and waking in the old etc etc so that they are encouraged to follow it. It is improtant to note that religions origin has with it the local cultural connotations.
    Guru nanak Clarified that " Miti Musalman ki pade payee Kumiyaar Ghadh Bhandey Ittan Kiyan Jal Ki Kare Pukar." Body becomes ultimately clay which then used by the Potter and he again burns that in his oven to make Pots. Where is the paradise and who get up in the Grave. There is no difference if you bury or burn a dead body the tru being is gone and body is just a pot.

    Islam was spread in India more by Fakirs with a message of love then by the tyronny of Aurangzeb through sword and persecution.

    So dear muslim friend live your life as a true muslim and more than that know Islam with true knowledge with in you before asking anyone else to read or know it. You are priviledged to have been born in it so do not waste your time to make others believe in what you do not know the best or wory for others salvation before you get your own ( Awar Updeshe AAp Na Kare Awe Javey Janme Marey).

    Love
    HP luthera

     
  11. hpluthera

    hpluthera
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    Murkha
    "Gal manan Di Hai"
    "Maney ki Gat Kahi Na Jaiey"
    Quran or any other Holy Book does not require stamp of approval Challenge or Acceptance as It is the Holiest of Hoy for those Who Believe in It. I do not understand by bringing Quran on a Sikh web Link what you wish to achieve rekindle your faith in it by Guru Nanak's Message or trying to earn that Paradise after death by spreading message of Quaran. If later is tue then I have a piece of advise go to a Muslim Faquir who has found true Allah and do his seva he will reveal the Quran to you. Beauty is in understanding not challenging others to match your faith. Islam is just 1400 years old was there no god then Hinduism is older Christianity is older does Koran Says that every thing said and done before this revelation to Mohamad sahib was wrong and must be undone.

    So Foolish are those who believe in this way they live with hatered for mankind and in no way they can be called religious or pious or believers. Follow Guru Nanak you will see "Sabhe Ghat Raam Bole " In every one there is God Man is the image of God Allah love is the message for all not for only believers of your faith but all beings.

    I do Ardas to Akal Purukh to grant you "Sumatt" and clean mind to wish for everyone's welfare and peace. If you just read and recite the following verse you will not have to understand read or know more all will light up in the heart:

    "Aval Allah Noor Upaya, Kudart De Sab Bandey
    Ek noor Tey Sab Jag Upjiya, Kon Bhaey Kaun Mandey"

    This "Shabad" is the best "Sura" by Guru Nanak for a person of Muslim Faith living in Duality and seeking guidance from Guru nanak's Ghar. Since you have come on Guru nanak's Sikh Forum we welcome and love you and prey for you.

    We ahve Guru nanak who has taught us all the religions by saying "Sarv Dharam Mein Shreshth Dharam, Bhaj Har Ka Naam, Kar Nirma Karam"

    We have no challenges in Guru Nanak" House.
    "Hum nahi Change Bura nahi Koi"

    I wish you could get peace amongst your people since you could not and have knocked Guru Nanak's Door you are welcome.
    HP Luthera



     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    in holy Kuran itself it is writtan that there are some allorigcal or relative meanings in book and wrong people misinterpert it.

    Had misinterpetation not there than Allah may not have let Gurmat start to bring the correct meaning.


    Gardens actualy means not the paradise but as in desert green means feerdom from hardship so garden is nothing but freedonm from upheaveal or state of stableism or salvation.

    While river flowing beneath actualy means dynamic or everchanging nature of Allah so pardise is to unite with Allah.

    What Allah think is true we who liove in decayable ,destroyable ,unture world can not say that Allah will be bound with untrue creation like us.

    As Allah is greatest ie Allah Ho Akbar,Greater than true or lies or promises and does what Allah want.Ameen.
     
  13. devinesanative

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    Dear Muslim ,


    Yeah , Sure what ever you are saying is can be produced , not one time but thousands of time .............

    But let me tell you one thing that words are nothing ...............

    Words are an empty container , and the meaning lies in the people who use it ...........

    If you would have been in Pakistan or Iran or Iraq then it understood that your brain is underdeveloped , but being in Uk , You still are in the Web of words ............

    Whatever you are saying can be produced , But first I have a little suggestion for you ........


    Next time before you ever read your holy koran and cut and paste on this forum , just to create a cyber war of Words , First off all do exercise your brain by doing so ...........


    Go and get some good Literature books and read them that will clear you muddledhead that how these peculiar verses are formed ........

    Do read a Good Philosophy Book .............

    and Ofcourse Read a Good psychology book , but remember it should not be written by your Mullahs..........

    Read Some Good Books .............

    It will automatically be revealed to you that creating such verses is not a miracle but a Creative Writing ..........


    or join Some Creative writing course .................
     
  14. Shahryar

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    44:58 And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.

    54:17 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth ?

    54:22 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth ?
     
  15. Shahryar

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    And to think I thought it was primarily due to the Jiziya tax imposed on non-Muslims by the Turks, Mughals, etc. That it was economically advantageous to convert!

    (I believe Akbar (i.e. Great) rescinded that tax for a while.)
     
  16. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    In Sindh,Kashmeer and Bengal East where Muslims are in majority it was more due to will full conversion often as lower castes wanted to get out of the clutches of the higher castes.
     
  17. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Das knows many people who rember Holy Kuran like Parrot but mere remebering mechanically and without understanding is useless,it may be easy to rember yet difficult to understand


    044.058
    YUSUFALI: Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.
    PICKTHAL: And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
    SHAKIR: So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.
    044.059

    this means that unlike other scriputres in Hebrow,Greek or Aramic,which covered limited Area Arebic was more nearer to the mases.
     
  18. devinesanative

    devinesanative
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    Why People fight for Words and Fantasies ?
     
  19. Shahryar

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    Mahmud of Ghazna (mämūd', gŭz'na) , 971?–1030, Afghan emperor and conqueror. He defeated (c.999) his elder brother to gain control of Khorasan (in Iran) and of Afghanistan. In his raids against the states of N India, Mahmud, a staunch Muslim, destroyed Hindu temples, forced conversions to Islam, and carried off booty and slaves. Hindus especially abhorred his destruction of the temple to Shiva at Somnath in Gujarat. Mahmud's territorial gains lay mainly W and N of Afghanistan and in the Punjab. At Ghazna (see Ghazni), his capital, he built a magnificent mosque. His successors in the Ghaznavid dynasty, which Mahmud founded, ruled over a reduced domain with the capital at Lahore until 1186.
    Bibliography
    See biographies by M. Nazim (1931) and M. Habib (2d ed. 1967); C. Bosworth, The Ghaznavids (1973) and The Later Ghaznavids (1977).
    http://www.answers.com/Mahmud%20Of%20Ghazni
     

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