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The Entire Raag Mala: The Last 2 Parts Missing?

Discussion in 'Discourses in English' started by harsimiritkaur, Nov 9, 2005.

  1. harsimiritkaur

    harsimiritkaur
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    I heard that the Raag Maala in Guru Granth Sahib is missing two other parts, that the first part was added into Guru Granth Sahib by Pandits and other Brahmanistic agents who wanted to influence Hinduism back into the Sikhs years ago, fighting against Mogals in the mountains. I heard that part two and three of Raag Maala is also very pornographic and sexy. Where can I get an English translation of these other two parts, and what book has them? Are they from rare Pandit books? Why is there no signature of the author in Raag Maala? Who wrote "ek oankar satgur prasaad after "tan man tivai hereya", that is before "Raag Maala?"
     
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  3. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Respected sister,

    Have a look at link below

    http://www.damdamitaksal.com/lit.htm

    das is surprised to know that muslim courter or pimp as propogated by Brahmnaical people bashing Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself has become Brahmin ie so caled Writer of Raagmala.

    Preversion of Sex in mind makes it to be found every whrer.

    In Kartarpuri Beer or copy Raagmala is on page 794 or 974 and same ink and same wriiter as other verses.
    So is abouot Bahi Bannu Beer at Kanpur Up India and Beers or Copy by Baba Deep Singh ji at various Takhats.

    best thing is to do Carbaon dating in organic or Nucler dating of inorgainic for the matter created by Papers meeting ink.

    And let us see the time of verses as well as Raagmala and if it is found from the time of Guru then we can go further to edit other Brahmnical Parts of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    If you want Das can send you all via PM.Das votes it to be as per with Gurmat.
     
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  4. harsimiritkaur

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    Radiocarbon dating will not prove the writer, but it will prove the age of the manuscript within about 65 years.

    Can someone post in Gurmukhi letters and with English translations these two missing parts of Raag Maala?

    I want to examine their context.

    Foolishness is in that link which tries to prove Raag Maalah as Gurbani. The excuse is that the person who contested it grew very ill, so he prayed forgiveness and promised never to argue against Raag Maalah. Then he was cured. I don't think his illness had anything to do with his doubt of Raag Maalah. I believe his illness was due to being in the company of people who promoted kachi baani. He caught the flew that they probably carried. You can be a carrier of bacteria that doesn't affect you, but can affect others. Each one has their own level of immune systems. If he did not catch his illness from them, then maybe it was just in the air on in something he ate. We Sikhs do not believe in magic. All is the natural laws of the universe. When we lack Guru Ji's wisdom, we become blind in our own ego and ignorance, and we become prey to deceivers of truthfulness, being brainwashed or fooled like buyers in a corrupt merchant's store.
     
  5. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh
    Respected Sister,

    With organic compounds more then 65 years say till thousneds of years we will be able to get the reuslt.

    In inorganic Nucler dating it can go much more in past as we use this in geology to get the age of rock.

    Das would like to examime the mixture of ink and paper that will guive the time of writing and if it is proven that it at the time of Guru then Brahmanical absorbtion theroy due to Sikhs in Jungle will be void.

    If we say that all the acent Scripyts were interpolated then we are saying that we do not have auothenthic version of Guru Granth sahib Ji and it is based upon oraltradition like Holy Bible and Holy Kuran which das thinks is wrong.

    Das would like to inform that Bhai Jodh Singh(not Dr Jodh Singh) did find that Adi Bir or intial copy is the one at Kartarpur.

    Coming to faith of sickness etc. das would like to tell you that till this date many of the missionaries say that Aahmad Shah Abdali died of cancer which happened after a brick while desrroying Darbar Sahib hit his nose.

    Such things are only for belivers and non Belivers may not belive.

    Das wants your permission to brin g below such other parts of Guru Granth sahib Ji also which likie Raagmala if taken without refering others part of Guru Granth Sahib Ji look Brahmanical Conspiracy.

    and should they be removed too.As Babu Teja Singh Ji did.

    Das is repeating that Das also thinks that Raagmala may not be writtan b y Guru but he might have got it from say prostitues cout as the same Raag which are there for lust are going to be used for spritual upliftment.

    Evil turned for Good as God is in evil also.Like Sarangi was usly been used in Brothal but same is used in Gurudwaras to put its use to uplift us spritually.

    If ads is not mistaken there are verses of Ninth Master which cleraly tells of harlot/{censored word, do not repeat.}/Ganika getting Salvation by name of God.

    Guru was for all socity and did not descrimnated for class as we do.

    Das is sorry if wrong is writtan but tommorow das will try to meet S. Surjeet Singh Ji Missioanries of Delhi and if has that verse you are asking then they will be produced.

    But das is also interseted to know the age of oldest copy of prongraphic verese(if any).

    Say if they are after the age of Adi bir and some mischivious person added later to demfame Gurubani then what should we do?

    Lastly Das would like to say that if you see Guru Granth Sahib Ji,There are verse which tell about magic or Miracles but they are to be attributed to Akal and not to human as we tend to start those Humans who perform them as personal worship.

    Rember the thing,We do not have our wisdom but all belongs to Guru(not the person but one who lives in all).
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Das has just got the whole of Ragmala from the book Raagmaala Parchol by GYani Surjeet Singh Ji princepal of Delhi and can be obtai9ned from
    Gurmat Education Centre
    44,Mehar Chand Market,
    Lodhi Road,
    New Delhi-110003.
    India.


    Das is giving below the scanned version of All.

    Unlike Gyani Sahib Ji das feels Ragmaala as per Gurmat and reason will be givne in details as das was more busy with other works like that of Dasham Granth Ji.

    Das does respect people like Gyani Surjeet Singh Ji,Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana and Bhag Singh Ji Ambal as thier intention is good but thier way of understanding Gurmat is not the way it should be.

    Das did tel Gyani Sahib that das may not agree to him but respect him and support him in many other things as it is with Ambala Sahib and Kala Afghana Sahib.

    Attachements as follows.
     
  7. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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  8. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Next part
     
  9. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    The last part.(das request if some moderator or Admin could enable the whole pages to be displayed in one thread instead of links.
     
  10. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    by mercy of Akal das is able to rexplain word by word whole of it.

    but das will try to tell why that part which is included is included and why is it not anti Gurmat(Das also bleives that it is not wriitan by Guru but does belive that there is a chance of Guru getting a part of Raagmala writtan by other and including in Guru Granth Sahib like the writing of Bhagats or Sufis).

    This not by Brhamin by Muslim Sufi Alam.
     
  11. Admin Singh

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    vijaydeep ji, its not possible to show whole pages as they are image files. however, clicking the link opens a new window and we can view the whole pages. I hope that is helpful. Regards
     
  12. harsimiritkaur

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    where is the link to see the entire raag mala. Can someone email me at harsimiritkaur@khalsa.com It does not show on this page. thanks
     
  13. harsimiritkaur

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    Can someone create these documents by retyping them in MS Word, and can someone make a rough translation so that I can understand them? Thanks.
     
  14. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Respected Sister,

    Raagmala is story based upon old strory in Sanskrit perhaps of a Brahmin musucian who expert with his girlfrined who was a dancer.

    But this is tranlation carried out by a Muslim Preacher called Alam to preach Islam.

    It is not done by Brahmin but a work of a Sufi.

    Das will fgive brief of it.

    There was a Pandit who was expoert in music or Raaga and due to thisd ladies of his state were after him.

    He was made to leave that states wents to another thier also he gets invloved with a dancer and is again thrown out.

    Lastly he goes to Vikrmaditya who helps him to get that lady(they die first and later on are revived by nector).

    There are some referance of sexual acts and even orgasm in it especialy how feamles behaved after lstening to Brahmin or how he went ahead with dancer.

    Das is only giving this accunt after reading Part of Principal Surjeet Singh Ji of Delhi whose articles are found on Sikhmarg.com.

    Das ,Akal Willing,will be carring some Tranlation work of his writing in Hindi,Engllish etc.

    Das has no point to say that it is by Guru and agree to Churhmani Kavi Santokh Singh Ji that not by Guru but want to say that it is from Raagmala of Alam but retained or included by Guru in Guru Granth Sahib Ji for a noble broad minded reason and is again not the brahmionacal conspiracy.

    Das read points made by Princepal Sahib on this matter which were there more to prove that Guru can not write it but what matters to das is weahter it is included by Guru in compliation or not.

    Das wants to ask another question which Princepal Sahib could not answer ie where is the origeoanal or first copy of this Raagmala?

    Das again wants to know this as by scince we can establish if it is writtan after compliation of Guru Granth Sahib Ji or after it.

    Even though if it is writtan by Alam then also there is no reason that Guru was compleed to not to include it,Das will explain this later..
     
  15. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Before Das start to write more about Raagmala or Dasham Granth Das would like to put some light on Sufi Muslims.

    They were Preachers of Islam worldwide and like they used Farsi in Iran to preach in India they used Hindi to bring Hindus to Islam and did succed in it.

    They start form Ameer Khusro then to till Malik Mohamud Jayesi and till Dhananand(Convert to Islam) and still further in chronological order.

    Unlike in Gurmat or Bhakti where God is lova as Husband or Khasam in Sufis God is like female beloved.

    They used thier mysiticism,did read Upnishads and did used Hindu mythology to paint Pesudo Brahmins wrong and Prove Allah above demi gods.

    So it were not the Sikhs only who used the name or example of Hindu gods but Sufies also.We can see that in Padmawat which is by Jayasi but story is full of symbols for reaching Allah and often that love starts from physical love(which often is thought by hystrical wahabis as erotica as we have purist Sikhs of the same mind frame) and moves to explain spritual love to Allah from there.

    Alam was one of the similar Sufi poet.

    If we see the first paras of Raagmala there are praises to Allah and prophets and great Muslims sent by Allah.

    Then when story starts we must know that introduction is thereby given as objective to meet Allah.

    Name of the Kings and thier Kingdoms are more like emotions of human mind Bad or good and is typical of Sufis.

    But Alam himslef states that it is not the total tranlation but many things he himself is adding.

    Das will give two examples.

    1. He refers to an intrtument of music called Tabla at the time of Vikrmaditya while Tabla and Sitar or Sehtar were made by Hazrat Ameer Khusaro.In fact Khusro Sahib Divied another dholl like intrument like two sided drum into two differnt drums to make Tabla from Pakhawaj.

    Das doudt that at the time of Vikrmaditya(mosr probabaly Chandrgupta 2nd when it was called Golden Era of Hindus) weather one could have articial finger made up of wax as menationed there.

    2. In Raagmala we have mention of Raags like Todi(could be near Mia Ki Tori),Bilawal or Gujari which ahve names which came to use much after Vikramaditya.

    Such things only point that such parts were interpolated by Alam himslef and had to do with sufi mysiticism then any Brahmnaical plot.
    As Das finds Gurmat more near to Islam then Hinduism.

    Das will further give the reason that why 1 is repeated in Raagmala and what could be its motive to be included in Adi Guru Darbar as in book of Parchool so far Principal Sahib have tried to prove it not by Gurus but Das wants to prove that it was ACCEPTED by Guru to be included.
     
  16. vijaydeep Singh

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  17. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Das is also forwarding the website of Principal Surjeet Singh Ji Sikh Missionary of Delhi and Das will soon be starting to work with him.

    you may soon have the online version in english which will be anti Raagmala.

    Das has many differances with principal Sahib viz a viz orthodox Sikhs,Dasham Granth and Raagmala yet das feels that he should be supported among most of the reformers to fight ritualism and dogamticim etc. which is often refered as brahmanicalism.

    So for thier crusade to oblitrate anti panthic things from Panth das will keep on supporting them to his fullest.

    link below as follow where soon das will try to bring online version of both writings opposing raagmala and Dasham Granth.(das has views differant due to differant preception for which das got a pat from Principal Sahib but it is not an approval by Principal Sahib.)

    http://gurbaniguru.com/gec.html

    and search the follwing link

    http://gurbaniguru.com/new%20lessons.htm
     
  18. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Das got about five books to deal with thi subject more few words of infomationas as follow.

    1. Das will ost soon that nagri scrit version of raagmala of Madhav Naal Kaam Kandala is unlike that of one at end of our Guru.
    Das could find only 70% overlap but just for the sake of objectiviyt gives it 80% but 20% is diffrant.

    Das will put that online also.

    2.Das could get the address of oldest copy of the same.
    It is from Samwat 1712 ie if we remove 49 years from it we will get Christian era.But that Kankroli Pratilipi may be younger till we get forensic results.

    3.It is latter than Both Kartarpuri Beerh and Bhai Bannu Beerh.
    4. Writing period of Alam is deemd between 1740 to 1760 by most Hindi experts.

    5.He was under the sustainance of prince Moajjam s/o Aurnagzeeb.
    6. same prince was Helpred by Tenth Guru in becoming King.

    7. Story of Madhav Nal and Kam Kandala was writtan by mnay others writers before also.

    8. Hindi writers talk of 2 Alams and First one has to be at the time of Akbar as his Madhavnal Kam Kandala has some time writtan which they deem tobe time of writng thie epic.
    9.Alam one is deemed as Sufi Muslim while two is also Muslim convert but put in line of Surdas and Kavi Gang(later is mentioned in Bhangus book Panth Prakash).
    Like surdas Alam two wrote Krishan related text ie syam Snehi and Sudama Charitara.
    another loose text or Musktak Kavya is as Alam keli.

    These things does mention of Muazzam.

    (to be continued..)
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Good effort at objectivity..vijay deep singh jio. Will comment after going through thoroughly. Thansk.

    jarnail singh gyani
     
  20. vijaydeep Singh

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    Gurfateh

    Das is putting Raagmala part of aothantic version of Madhavnal Kaam Kandala.

    Parts differnt from one in Guru Granth Sahib Ji are underlined.

    Das wants to say that there are other versions of the same stroy by other writers who hapened to be before and after Alam also.
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    I cant read HINDI - DEVNAGREE SCRIPT....sad

    Jarnail singh gyani
     

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