Caspian
SPNer
- Mar 7, 2008
- 234
- 154
This is more of a general question that doesn't just pertain to Sikhism but many other religions like Christianity and Islam. Matter of fact, I usually use the example with western religions who have the idea of Heaven and Hell but I would like to hear an answer from an Eastern perspective.
A logical fallacy is a paradox or two seemingly contradictory ideas.
Now here we go.
The dictionary defines god as: The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.
Although that is just a dictionary definition, for all extensive purposes, I believe the definition is sufficiently in line with a Sikh's perspective of God.
The key idea is that, God is both Perfect and Omniscient. From a religious point of view you cannot argue otherwise. Now, if god is perfect, then a lot of people like to believe god has a plan. Simply put, God knows what everyone is doing before they do it and everyone does everything according to God's plan. To think otherwise would be religiously incorrect. People also like to believe the God has bestowed upon them a mind enough for them to be able to think on their own accord or for them to have the "free will" of action and thought in order to choose their own path (for better or for worse). However, I feel that the two ideas cannot co-exist. If god has a plan, or even if god just knows what you're going to do before u do it, then how do u have free will? The choice becomes an illusion because the decision you make is the decision that god has foreseen and planned, to do otherwise would suggest God is imperfect. Assuming you don't have free will and God has a plan, then we can agree that some people are born to lead a good life and others a bad life it would be unfair for god to punish those who live a bad life and have no capacity to change on their own accord because as it appears to god, they are just following his all-mighty perfect plan.
Therefore, the only 2 logical conclusions I can infer are:
1) You have free will but God is neither perfect or omniscient because true free will suggests you make your decisions on your own accord and God has no way of knowing what your doing. And we can truly be held responsible for our actions when we pass away.
2)You don't have free will and God is both perfect and omniscient but we are ultimately living trivial lives pre-destined to set track on the good or bad paths and be punished for any wrong doings that we have ultimately no control in preventing. We're like actors in a movie set to play a part and follow the script.
If anyone can find a fallacy in my logic
then I am more then pleased to discuss it further. For now, all I want to hear is a explanation as to how free will and destiny can co-exist in relegion
Edit: I asked a muslim friend of mines this question a long time ago and the response after a few months of hard thinking was that God has the ability to predetermine and his power is absolute but he has also given you a limited amount of free will, specially in the area of belief/dis-belief and that god neither wants you to or condones any negative actions. < The answer didnt satisfy me because, im asking "How" is this possible and she was simply telling me "It is" by suggesting that god is able to give you free will and still remain all perfect with the ability to pre determine. Thats kinda like asking "How does a plane fly" and the pilot telling me "It just does." Anyways, as a side note, another popular phrasing of the same paradox was given by Homer Simpson when he told Flanders "Can God make a burrito so hot that even he himself cannot eat it" lol i just thought id put that up for fun, dunt bother answering to homer simpson's quote i know god does not eat burritos.
A logical fallacy is a paradox or two seemingly contradictory ideas.
Now here we go.
The dictionary defines god as: The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe.
Although that is just a dictionary definition, for all extensive purposes, I believe the definition is sufficiently in line with a Sikh's perspective of God.
The key idea is that, God is both Perfect and Omniscient. From a religious point of view you cannot argue otherwise. Now, if god is perfect, then a lot of people like to believe god has a plan. Simply put, God knows what everyone is doing before they do it and everyone does everything according to God's plan. To think otherwise would be religiously incorrect. People also like to believe the God has bestowed upon them a mind enough for them to be able to think on their own accord or for them to have the "free will" of action and thought in order to choose their own path (for better or for worse). However, I feel that the two ideas cannot co-exist. If god has a plan, or even if god just knows what you're going to do before u do it, then how do u have free will? The choice becomes an illusion because the decision you make is the decision that god has foreseen and planned, to do otherwise would suggest God is imperfect. Assuming you don't have free will and God has a plan, then we can agree that some people are born to lead a good life and others a bad life it would be unfair for god to punish those who live a bad life and have no capacity to change on their own accord because as it appears to god, they are just following his all-mighty perfect plan.
Therefore, the only 2 logical conclusions I can infer are:
1) You have free will but God is neither perfect or omniscient because true free will suggests you make your decisions on your own accord and God has no way of knowing what your doing. And we can truly be held responsible for our actions when we pass away.
2)You don't have free will and God is both perfect and omniscient but we are ultimately living trivial lives pre-destined to set track on the good or bad paths and be punished for any wrong doings that we have ultimately no control in preventing. We're like actors in a movie set to play a part and follow the script.
If anyone can find a fallacy in my logic
then I am more then pleased to discuss it further. For now, all I want to hear is a explanation as to how free will and destiny can co-exist in relegionEdit: I asked a muslim friend of mines this question a long time ago and the response after a few months of hard thinking was that God has the ability to predetermine and his power is absolute but he has also given you a limited amount of free will, specially in the area of belief/dis-belief and that god neither wants you to or condones any negative actions. < The answer didnt satisfy me because, im asking "How" is this possible and she was simply telling me "It is" by suggesting that god is able to give you free will and still remain all perfect with the ability to pre determine. Thats kinda like asking "How does a plane fly" and the pilot telling me "It just does." Anyways, as a side note, another popular phrasing of the same paradox was given by Homer Simpson when he told Flanders "Can God make a burrito so hot that even he himself cannot eat it" lol i just thought id put that up for fun, dunt bother answering to homer simpson's quote
i know god does not eat burritos.
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