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Tankhah Against Prof Darshan Issued

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vikram9274, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. vikram9274

    vikram9274
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    AKAL TAKHT SAHIB DECLARES RAGI A TANKHAYIA
    PANTHIC.ORG
    Published on December 5, 2009

    Sri Amritsar Sahib - The five Singh Sahibans issued an edict from Sri Akal Takht Sahib declaring the controversial Ragi Darshan Singh a ‘Tankhayia’ (apostate). The Ragi was sternly chastised for failing to appear at the apex Sikh Takht at 12 noon on December 5th of 2009 as required.

    On November 17th, the Ragi was directed by Sri Akal Takht Sahib to appear before the five Singh Sahibans and provide explanation for the offending remarks he had made about Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji at a Rochester, New York gurdwara.

    The directive by Sri Akal Takht Sahib also declared the Ragi as a “Guru-Nindak” who, due to ego and self-interest, failed to uphold the respect and maryada of the sacred Takht Sahib.

    The Sri Akal Takht Sahib directive further stated that until the Ragi appears in person for atonement, all Sikh organizations, institutions, and Gurdwaras should not allow the Ragi to utilize their facilities.

    The five Singh Sahibans also gave a final ultimatum to the heretic Ragi that if he does not abide by this directive and appear before the Takht before January 7th of 2010, further severe action would be taken against him according to Panthic norms and traditions.

    Contents of the December 5th directive from Sri Akal Takht Sahib:

    [​IMG]

    <table bgcolor="white" width="85%"> </table>

    Link: Panthic.org


    Does anyone know why he didn't show up to defend himself and his statements? I thought he was going to present his "Original" videos.?
     

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  3. spnadmin

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    vikram ji

    How do you conclude he is a heretic? ("You" may not be you personally.) Do you simply follow what every authority figures say even when their own integrity is highly questionable? This post is by panthic.org which has been running a venomous campaign, including promulgating lies and distortions, for more than a year. Now they are dancing with glee. This story has not ended yet. And it will not be over on January 7.
     
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  4. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    ma'am, I'm not following any one media outlet. If you read what I wrote, I never said he was a heretic. I was just putting up the news of him not showing up and wondering why he didn't? I didn't say anything about him or his views.
     
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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Thank you for the clarification. He did show up. He was given what in the US we call the "run around." There is a game called "The Cheese Stands Alone." In this game, children sing a number of rounds in which a farmer takes a wife, a wife takes a child, a child takes a dog, etc. etc. When the game reaches the very last round, and children sing "the rat takes the cheese, the rat takes the cheese" they form a circle around the cheese. The game ends when the children all sing "The cheese stands alone, the cheese stands alone." The next time the game is played, the cheese gets to be the farmer. You have been observing in the past two weeks a game which ended with Professor Darshan Singh. surrounded by security and supporters, as the "cheese" "standing alone" outside the Akal Takht.

    The next time the game is played, he gets to be the farmer. :)
     
  6. International Akaali

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Vikram,

    You need to read the letter which said for Prof. Darshan Singh to show up at AKAL TAKHT at 12pm at Dec5, not jathedars. Secondly, Jathedars never showed up Prof Darshan Singh did. Thirdly, Where was the "final verdict" read? Was it Akal Takht or the secretriat? If it was read at Akal Takht then this is the same place where me and you know that Prof Darshan Singh was full well there at the time allotted. However Jathedar decided to sit in the private room.

    The question arises if the "final verdit" by the "Jathedars" was read at Akal Takht then where were they at 12pm?
     
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  7. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued


    Sir, I think you are thinking that the views of the article are mine. I was merely putting the news up. From what I have read, Ragi showed up and was provided security but reused to go inside and wanted to discuss/hold the meeting outside. While I am not okay with decisions made behind closed doors, I am also not in support of having a meeting like this outside because as we know, violence has broken out over this issue numerous times before. I don't really know if I agree with him just showing up and refusing to go inside. I am in the view that him and perhaps 2 associates should have been allowed to go in. Holding a meeting outside on the steps of Akal Takhat would result in bickering, and perhaps even violence. And if this was to occur, it would be very shameful for the panth because a gurdwara is not a place of violence. I don't really know what to think of the way this issue has been handled. I myself am extremely tired of it all and as far as i am concerned, Jaap Sahib is a part of my daily nitnem, and that is that.
     
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  8. International Akaali

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Jaap Sahib being apart of nitnem is not the question here.

    If these jathedars are so concerned about sikh panth why not take issue to those who divide khandey thee pahul up. Taksalis, sant samaj type people read lambee chaupai while takht has issued direct order as per sikh reyat maryada to go up to dusht dukh tee laho bachayee. Why not take action against those who are dividing sikh panth by reading lambee chaupai and arills during rehraas and amrit sanchar? what about panthic ekta then?

    What about panthic ekta when these so called sant samaj people call sikh reyat maryada a document made by the british?

    With what face did the jathedars summon prof darshan singh makes no sense too me. Iqbal singh Patna has already excommunicated him from his own panth. How is he sitting in meetings and to decide future of sikhs? He has three wives he is a bajjar kureights why is he not given proper punishment?

    Hajoor sahib and patna sahib both have parkash of Dasam Granth beside guru granth sahib, If it is not gurbani as per so called jathedar tarlochan singh then how can it be parkash beside guru granth sahib.

    Gurbachan Singh has been taking hukamnama from dasam granth before, as per tarlochan singh if it isnt gurbani, how in the right mind is he taking hukamnama from something which isnt gurbani? It is not only me that is saying its not gurbani, but from the horses mouth the so called jathedar tarlochan singh.

    This decision was made prior to Prof. Darshan Singh comming in thus sikh panth will never accept decision of these so called jathedars, akal takht has been hijacked by badal panth.
     
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  9. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    I've been saying this all along man. I have stated that the Jathedars are corrupt and greedy and shouldn't have the right to judge. A criminal has no right to judge another criminal. I have stated in another thread that Iqbal Singh has numerous wives. I have stated that Gurbachan Singh is only after money. I have stated that they visited the dera of chicago Baba, who is involved in immigration fraud, was caught in a motel with a women, and does drugs. I have stated everything you said above, numerous times. I have stated my dislike of the way the jathedars have handled this issue and also expressed my dislike of them in general. They are political puppets and spend most of their time fighting amongst themselves.
     
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  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Decisions and discussions on the PANTHIC ISSUES ( and this is a Panthic Issue as the Guru ship of SGGS as Supreme and Only Guru,Gurbani status of Charitaropakhoyan - on which a Previous Akal Takhat jathedar sadhu Singh Bhaura has already made a decision as to not being gurbani.) were Never made behind closed doors. How ridiculous that when Prof darshan Singh ji is sitting and waiting at the "Akal Takhat"..it is not deemd to be Akal Takhat....BUT when the Gurbachan Singh reads out his edict (decided in a closed room) the very same place becomes Akal Takhat. Always SIKH SANGATS gathered in large numbers before the Akal Takhat and discussed..GURMATTAS were passed..and then ONLY the Five/Jathedras came forward to ENFORCE the GURMATTA decided by the Sangat. No Gurmatta was ever decided upon behind closed doors....ever.

    By the way, Vickram Ji..Individuals like the famous baba of Chicago, who are called by the Five Jathedars on their INDIVIDUAL "wrongs" maybe dealt with behind closed doors as that is not a Sikh Panthic Issue at all. And that baba was absolved of all wrongdoing behind closed doors !!...Such matters deserve closed doors..as the baba in Chicago was also doing his thing behind closed doors !!! Ragi Darshan Singh does Kirtan in SANGAT...and should be dealt with in SANGAT !!:welcome:
     
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  11. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Sir I agree, I just believe that with this issue, in my honest opinion, the sangat present should also respect that they are on the property of a gurdwara. We have seen people get up and disrespect the SGGS itself over this issue. So, I think that one would have to insure that the sangat present while this issue is discussed would not get rowdy and do anything disrespectful.
     
  12. spnadmin

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    What is the connection between your comment and the thread topic? A meeting did not take place because the ones who called it were not present.

    The issue is a panthic issue. It was addressed in a fashion outside the boundaries of panthic governance. Then the instigators of a non-panthic process did not show up -- without notice -- leaving Professor Darshan Singh "to stand alone."

    A meeting did not take place because the ones who called it were not present. What are you talking about?
     
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  13. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    My point is that, the jathedars were inside a room and Ragi wanted the meeting to be held outside. I do not agree with decisions behind doors but if this is to take place with sangat present than we must insure that the sangat does not get rowdy. Please read all the threads and you will see the exchange of views between myself and Internation Akali and you wil see both my point and the context it was made in.



    <table class="contentpaneopen"><tbody><tr><td class="contentheading" width="100%">Akal Takht declares Prof Darshan Singh 'Tankhayia' </td> <td class="buttonheading" align="right" width="100%">
    </td> <td class="buttonheading" align="right" width="100%">
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="contentpaneopen"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" align="left" valign="top" width="70%"> JAGMOHAN SINGH </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="createdate" valign="top"> Saturday, 05 December 2009 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" valign="top">
    AMRITSAR: In an unprecedented move former Jathedar Akal Takht Professor Darshan Singh was Saturday declared Tankhaiya (guilty for religious misconduct) in an edict announced from Akal Takht (highest Sikh temporal seat) by Sikh clergy after a marathon meeting here.
    During meeting of Sikh Clergy including Jathedar Akal Takht Gyani Gurbachan Singh, Jathedar Takht Damdama Sahib Gyani Balwant Singh Nandgarh, Jathedar Takht Kesgarh Sahib Gyani Tarlochan Singh, Jathedar Takht Patna Sahib Gyani Iqbal Singh and Head Priest Sachkhand Takht Hazoor Sahib Gyani Partap Singh were present at Akal Takht.
    On November 17 last, Jathedar Akal Takht had asked Prof Darshan Singh to appear at Akal Takht for clarification as he had allegedly uttered blasphemous remarks against the tenth Sikh master Guru Gobind Singh at USA.
    Professor Darshan Singh is a renowned Sikh scholar and well connected to Sikh community at various foreign countries and remained Jathedar Akal Takht during the peak days of militancy in Punjab in the year of 1986.
    Earlier in the morning Darshan Singh had come before Akal Takht but did not go inside to meet the Sikh clergy and while leaving, he left file of documents of his clarification regarding his innocence.
    When Darshan Singh was sitting outside the Akal Takht, secretary SGPC told him to go inside before the Sikh clergy but Darshan Singh vehemently denied to go inside and demanded that Sikh clergy should come out to listen him.
    Whereas, Sikh clergy in an edict said that Darshan Singh had arrived at Akal Takht carrying ego in his head, since he had violated all the norms of Sikh religion during his appearance at sacred Akal Takht.
    In an edict Sikh clergy described Darshan Singh as so called professor who did not bother about the respect of highest Sikh temporal seat Akal Takht, so that is why he was declared tankhaiya.
    Edict further stated that Darshan Singh was given time to appear in person before the Akal Takht being a humble Sikh personality till January 7 to accept religious punishment.
    Edict also asked the Sikh community all over the world that Darshan Singh would not be entertained at anywhere in the world particularly in any Sikh shrines unless Darshan Singh appears at Akal Takht and accept punishment awarded by Sikh clergy.
    Edict said that Darshan Singh would remain guilty of Sikh Panth unless appear at Akal Takht for atonement.
    Earlier in the morning when Prof Darshan Singh had arrived at threshhold of Golden Temple to reach at Akal Takht was provided security cover of two different human chains. SGPC had deputed nearly 400 members of task force for the security of Darshan Singh.
    Delhi Gurdwara Management Committee President Paramjit Singh Sarna also appeared at Akal Takht to submit his clarification since he had allegedly prevented certain group of Sikhs to perform prayer at Gurdwara at Delhi.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
     
  14. spnadmin

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Allow me to make this point as clearly as I can. Before any shooting of letters back and forth, someone needed to realize something. If Professor Darshan Singh was guilty of the laundry list of items (which btw grew by the week as December 5 approached), then corporate matters of the Panth were at stake. If corporate matters affecting the entire panth are at stake, and it is believed that Sri Guru Granth Sahib itself has been undermined(and only SGGS), a representative meeting of the panth must be convened for a gurmatta and must be convened according to the Sikh Rehat Maryada.


    A gurmatta is not the SGPC nor a collection of Jathedars. A decision of a gurmatta was not issued. Professor Darshan Singh knows SRM better than I do, and he knew that a shell game of "find the jathedars" was being played to the max on December 5. (It was being played as ACT 2 in the drama the week before in which Avtar Singh of SGPC told him to show up and the Akaal Takht said "Don't bother us, send a letter.")

    I don't expect to change your mind nor am I trying to do so. All I would like to do is get some authentic information out here QFT so that the casual reader is si horrified by the conduct of some politically appointed religious leaders that they generalize this to all of Sikhi.
     
  15. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    ma'am I don't even have an opinion on this. What will you change my mind on? I have repeatedly stated that the Jathedars are corrupt and greedy. I have started threads about it. I am merely posting news relevant to the topic and hoping that somehow we can put together a complete picture of what truly occurred.
     
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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    vikram9274 ji,

    I know. This is what you always say whenever you are confronted with an opinion that adverse to the "content" of your posts. Fir you "post new relevant to a topic" and then you say that you are contributing to a "complete picture of what has truly occurred," or some version of that. You also always back off by saying that you don't have a personal opinion, and that thej athedars are corrupt and greedy.

    It has by now become a pattern.
     
  17. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Look ma'am, my opinion is that the handling of this is all wrong. I really don't have an interest in the "issue" because my views are that the bani from dasam granth is in my nitnem. Dasam Granth is, in my opinion, an extremely interesting read and can educate everyone. I do not agree with the prakash of Dasam Granth next to SGGS but I don't find it such a big issue that it should ruin our panth. I do not think that in the grand scheme of things, the guru's would mind if someone sat next to them or walked along side them and if SGGS is to be considered our living guru, to me the "prakash issue" is not HUGE. My problem is with the way this issue is being handled. The way it is being taken to whole new levels by some people and beadbi of SGGS is being done. The part politics plays in our religion is disgusting. The fact that our leaders are full of greed and are incompetent. The fact that our panth is in constant turmoil and is disorganized, is my problem. In my eyes, our panth is turning into a joke. Infighting, politics, greed, kids using drugs, singers and babas fighting, leaders who have numerous wives, leaders who take bribes, priests who lie and can't follow religious customs. Our panth is on a downward spiral.
     
  18. spnadmin

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Words of insight on the recent events regarding Professor Darshan Singh sum up my personal take on things 1000 times better than I can do.

    "There are no "religious" leaders.. and then ..."Sikhs supposed to bequeath their minds to any other except the wisdom of the AGGS"

    The poster goes on to point out that these are thugs with allegiances to political parties, and are remiscent of a "safron brigade. ....And there is now a little jhandi atop Darbar sahib. Finally the poster points out that Guru Nanak is no longer welcome in his own house.


    To protect the privacy of its author, no name given.
     
    #17 spnadmin, Dec 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2009
  19. vikram9274

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Well, I am a sikh, but i don't really buy into the whole listen to akal takhat or leaders stuff. I've never been much of a follower, more of a do what i want and think is right type of guy. Earn my respect and i'll follow you to hell and back. Do something to disrespect me, i'll make sure you end up in hell or atleast 6 feet below ground. The whole respect people because "just because" isn't logical to me. Plus, authority has never been my thing, so i guess i have the same views on that.
     
  20. spnadmin

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    Re: Tankhayia Against Ragi Issued

    Method of Adopting Gurmatta
    Article XXVI



    (a) The Gurmatta can only be on a subject that affects the fundamental principles of Sikh religion and for their upholding, such as the questions affecting the maintenance of the status of the Gurus or the Guru Granth Sahib or the inviolability of the Guru Granth Sahib, ambrosial baptism, Sikh discipline and way of life, the identity and structural framework of the Panth. Ordinary issues of religious, educational, social or political nature can be dealt with only in a Matta [resolution].
    (b) A Gurmatta [Holy resolution] can be adopted only by a select primary Panthic group or a representative gathering of the Panth.

    http://www.searchsikhism.com/sec6.html

    Did this happen? Or was there a shell game played of "find the jathedars?"
     
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