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Sikh News Taksal - A critical Analysis

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by International Akaali, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. International Akaali

    International Akaali
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    please take some time to view a few scanned pages of anti gurmat literature which is published by taksal
     
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  3. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Das does not find any thing anti Gurmat where it has been explained that keeping hairs uncut is OK.

    Then if someone opposes meat then also that person cajn not be Anti Gurmat.

    Das wants to add it over here that it is code or Maryada of Taksal,where eating meat is not allowed and it could be justified.Problems comes when many people try to impose Maryada of Taksal as Sikh Rahit Maryada.Anyway most of the Jathedar of Taksal including Baba Dhuma Ji respect meat eating Sikhs also.In amry of Sant Ji ,there were Amritdhari Sikhs(from SGPC) and they ate meat.As per Sant Ji there was no differnce between Amritdhari from Sgpc and Taksal.

    Das respect the views of AKJ but Taksal is not as rigid as AKJ.Rigidness of AKJ on Bebecki Rahit anyway is very much usefull for Sikhs in many occaision.So das respect that rigidness also.
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    The ANTI-GURMATT stuff is the "wrong TRANSLATIONS" and twisting of GURBANI meanings....to score taksaal point of anti-meat.
    1. It is personal matter to eat or not eat meat. Why DRAG GURBANI into it, twist its meanings, do wrong translations etc just to "prove" that you are RIGHT and the other is WRONG. Taksaal and AKJ have a VERY WEAK BASE if they cannot persuade their followers to just avoid meat on its own MERIT...there are a thousand and one reasons they can provide their followers to avoid meat..BUT they FAIL..and instaed TWIST GURBANI towards their owna slanted viewpoints. THIS IS ANTI GURMATT.
    Missionaries DONT have to SAY..look here GURBANI PROMOTES this and that...so eat meat...as GURBANI DOES NOT PROMOTE ( or NOT PROMOTE) meat or ANYTHING else in DIET. So if the missionaries can survive without dragging in Gurbani..Dhumma and his taksaals and all others must be Pretty useless as "ROLE MODELS" if their followers must be "FRIGHTENED" through mistransaltions of Gurbani and twisted meanings to make them stop eating meat..you mean to say a Taksali will NOT just look at Dhumma and say..I am NOT eating meat as dhumma doesnt eat it..he is a Brahmgiani, he is my leader, he is my role model ?? Dhumma and those before him had to RESORT to TWISTING GURBANI to scare their followers off meat ??

    In the Excellent article on Fools wrangle over meat by randip Singh EACH of these shabads quoted have been dealt with in Proper Gurbani meanings...NO TWISTING..NO MISTRANSLATING..just plain GURBANI as it is written.
    2. GURU NANAK JI closed this debate on Meat by writng the EXTRA LONG Shabad Maas Maas kar MOORAKH JHaggreh. AFTER that NOT a SINGLE GURU...from Guru Angad ji to Guru Gobind Singh ji ever write even ONE TUK on MEAT. Whereas on OTHER TOPICS..we find many GURU SAHIBS Wrote their own Gurbani..many REPETITIONS..and same subjects by different Gurus...BUT NOT MEAT !!! WHY ?? Because Guru nanak ji DECIDED it CLOSED.
    But the "too wise" taksalis and other Hinduised followers couldnt stand this..and RE-OPENED thsi issue around the late 19th century...and continue to FAN its FLAMES to keep their chullah burning...Rottian karan pooreh taal !!! Eat or Dont eat..decide on your own..DONT DRAG in GURBANI/SGGS.
    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  5. International Akaali

    International Akaali
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    i would like to say for the first two scanned pages about kutha... it is very clear that baba gurbachan singh ji very very confused... he does not know what he is writing... first he writes how that only halal is banned which is muslimaan type meat... then he goes on to distort gurbani for his purposes... then later on he gives rehitnama of bhai desa singh and bhai chaupa singh that kutha is banned meaning halal musliman way... two contradictory points

    the 3rd artcle

    baba gurbachan sigh states that kashera was givin from ram chander to hanuman

    he is clearly saying here that if ram chander gave hanuman kashera then hanuman must have given kasera too sikhs

    where else did kashera come from according to bab gurbachan singh... also i would like to add that hanuman had a tail? so how in the world did this tail come out of the kashera... what stupidity

    the 4th scanned page...

    talks about where tobbaco had come from...

    the tobbaco plant was made created when kaamthain gao started bleeding from his feet.. and from there came the tobbaco plant???? no sense at all

    on the last scanned page:

    baba gurbachan singh disrespects our mahan panj pyrai by calling them of diffrent avtars

    pyara deya singh- lao thai avtar

    pyara dharm singh- bhagat thana thai actar

    pyara himmit singh- chattarbhujjee thai avtar

    pyara mokham singh- bhagat namdev ji thee avtar

    pyara sahib singh- bhagat sain jee thai avtar

    gurbani doesnt believe in any kind of avtar stuff

    so on what basis did baba gurbachan singh write this?
     
  6. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh


    \
    Das would first address Halal issue.kutha as per Prof Sahib Singh Ji is meat which is obtained by paining animals.And Halal fits the bill.Then further ahead of this as per Singh Sahib Kahan Singh Ji Nabha Sikhs can eat meat in which eletcric shock,gun shot etc. is given.But meat in which blood is drained aout is not allowedd(refeeance to Khushwant singh books das read when he was very young).

    But das thinks it is Abhkhya Ka kutha ie animal painfuly killed after verse or Kalima.so das still does not find much probem over here.Das thinks that if Halal is done on Animal after givng it pain killer then it may not be Kutha.More study can move over there.

    coming out the Hanuman Issue.And Kachhera over there.As Hanuman was very powerfull and had been told to have great intellect and moral and physical power so such thing could has been writtan.But Hanuman never wore Kachhera but Langot or Rumali more like diaper of child then say short.

    This could be only a symbolism that the way Rama gave his monkey force hight symblic thing so should Sikhs the leo force accept same from Guru.

    We also need to understand that in Sau Sakhi we see,that various demi gods are giving various ingedidents to cook Karah Prasad.

    Such things are used by Nihungs also but only to prove that demigods are servents of Khalsa(more like Hazrat Adam(AS) was postrated by Angels or such attributes of Akal serve another attribute called Human.

    to be continued......
     
  7. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    about tobbaco Matter.

    As per Sau Sakhi again a Muslim King Ajmer kills cow and create a plant which is like leafe having an ear like that of a cow.That made Hindus Tej Heen or powerless.

    Tobbaco in realty came to India from South America(which is its native place) and much after time of columbos.

    But illitrate persons were made addict by that and let forengers rule.

    such thing was again a propoganda to let illitrate guys stay away from tobbaco.

    Lastly coming to Avytar issue.

    In Bhatt Swayyes we have one instance attaching First Master with mythological beings.And in Wahiguru word eating rice and curd from the hand of mother Yasoda is there.

    Main thing over here is just to let Hindus know that thier high people are Sikhs of Guru and they should also leave thier worship and go for Guruship of Akal.

    This is way to preach.like wise there is counter propoganda by Sikhs talking about Garidasis(a sect of Kabir Panthis) who said that First Master worshipped god incarnation called Kabir by saying that St Kabir was rebron a Sikh of Tenth Master and had Amrit Sanaskar.

    Gurmat uses vocbulary and styles of native faith of potential convert so that that person could be converted to Gurmat.

    Missioaries are more reformer in us then preachers.Thier role statrs when a person ins already in Gurmat and may not move as per Gurmat.But das wilol like to have more info from Bhai Internaltion Akali Ji.

    Das also wants to say that in Taksal meat is not allowed as young men live there away from family and meat can increaeese lust as there could be such probelms in schoolls of other faith.
     
  8. Akashdeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Dear Vijaydeep,

    You are trying to prove something right which is simply wrong and nothing more than that. The line written "eho kachchira hi shri Ram Chandar ji ne ....." is clearly wrong. The place where this line has been put in the writings of Taksal scanned by International Akali ji, simply gives the meaning that - the Sikh kachchera was given by Ram to Hanuman and then later came to Sikhs. The use of Punjabi word "eho kachchera" is wrong here.

    This wrong writing could have been due to 2 reasons (that I can see)
    1. Due to lack of writing skills by the person who wrote this book. If a person is writing a book of such significance that it is talking about a religion and will (supposedly) be read by thousands and believed from their hearts, one has to take special care to validate the text by going through various reading from people of different backgrounds. Then one can come to know what he/she is writing is exactly what he/she wants to say.
    2. A part of bigger plot where people are either themselves the role players to adulterate Sikh philosophy or are stupidly and unknowgly doing this under the influence of some other group.
    ....to be continued.
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Guru Piyario Jio,
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

    Veer Vijaydeep singh ji wrote:
    ......IF animal is given "pain killer"..and then hallla it is not actually hallala as animal suffered no pain...
    2. In a recent article on Panthic weekly Internet Paper published by the AKJ stalwart Navjot Singh..it was stated..There is no difference in "taste" betwen hallal meat and Jhatka meat...etc etc

    The Bajjar Kurehit of Eating HALLAL MEAT is NOT based on its TASTE being different..or Due to the PAIN caused in killing the animal. Such wrong ideas are beign sown to purposely create more confusion.

    HALLAL MEAT/KOSHER MEAT/BAKRA sacrificed by the HINDU PANDIT in the Kali mata Mandir...etc etc etc are ALL BANNED for the KHALSA as these are all "SACRIFICIAL MEATS". The animals have been SACRIFICED, their BLOOD drawn out and allowed to FLOW FREELY as an OFFERING to the DEVI/ALLAH/YAHWEH God of Abraham..etc etc etc. THIS is the One and ONLY reason why Hallal is NOT ALLOWED for the Khalsa. IF an animal is killed by "JHATKA" but sacriifced to any devta/devi/etc..that woudl still be BANNED for the KHALSA...Pain in killing/taste etc are not the factors.

    Dya--- compassion..is very good..the First Pyara was DYA SINGH..without DYA..religion is incomplete...BUT DYA doesnt mean going without FOOD..IF thats the case have DYA on ALL "living" beings..SAAG...Daal..Atta..as well as meat..Guru nanak Ji Himslef declares..Sootak is in the WOOD..the WATER..which thing on earth doesnt have LIFE in it...Stop being hypocrites

    Gyani jarnail Singh
     
  10. kds1980

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    i think the main reason for banning halaal was because aurangzeb and other muslim rulers were forcing everybody to eat halaal.so it was a kind of submission to islam thats why it was banned by guru gobind singh ji.
     
  11. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Das again Thanks Gyani Sahib and his coments have again prevented das from commiting a Kurehit.Das was realy been told one of renowned missionary of Gurmat that it is Hindus or Brahmins conspiracy to divide Sikhs and Muslims and Sikhi rahit as per end of Dasham Granth in which Halal is termed as Haram is work of Bhai Nand Lal and Guru did not prevent us from eating Halal.

    Das again thanks Gyani Sahib Ji for help he provided but Halal is sacrifisal only during Id Ul Azha while name of Allah is said otherwise and blood is drained as to let blood(a symbol of life as per Old Testment so Kosher(some Jews are doing kosher of pig also)) be out.Kuran forbades the consumption of blood.If neded Ayats from Suras can be provided.

    But das can understand that from Gyani Sahib Ji thing that Allah or Devi do not eat animal and so such things should not be eaten also make sense.

    Das will when ever does he meet his Arbic frined will tell him(Arab) that Das will not eat Halal even after painkiller been given to it.

    Then coming to Bhai Akashdeep Singh Ji.

    As you know that in Taksal Maryada eating cow also is not allowed while das eats beef.So das is not from thier side.

    Reason for das's defending AKJ,Taksal or Kala Afghana Ji at occaision has some other reason.That is more an attempt to let fellow Sikh understand the view point of another.

    on meat issue Das read work of Talwara Sahib,Das nenve said that Talwara sahid or Bhai Randheer Singh Ji were wrong.Das's preception of Gurbani is differnt then what they prcived.

    In Guru Granth Sahib Ji some things about Brahma a demigod is writtan.
    1.Brahma was bron of lotus.
    2.Brahma entered into stem of lotus.
    3.If das is not mistaken Brhama spoke Vedas(as per Hindus four Heads of Brhama are one Veda each).

    Thing over here is that there is no Brhama at all for an enlightened Sikh.Then why did Guru wrote all that?

    To let Sikhs or non Sikhs get the crux of matter vide examples and understand the absolute Truth vide relative things.

    As per scince all humans are not equal more due to genes or variance of environment.

    But as per faith or contemprarya social scine of democratic set up all are treated eqauly.But still libral way provide them toi tread best path for them.In autocrartic communists we have differnt types of people been pushed into same work.We call that in Hindi Gadha Gorha Ek Saman({censored word, do not repeat.} and Horses put alike for same task).

    why das diviated from topic comes now over here.

    When communsts Singh that this saffron colour cloath was used by Rani Jhansi or Shiva JI which they will use to bring communsion in India(vide Bhagat Singh).It does not mean that left guys have nay link to Shiva ji or Rani Jhansi but to attract thier follower or patriots into left fold(like our member Raj Khalsa thinks of Bhagat Singh as patriot).

    Gandhis wearing one Langot also was more to attract poor guys.

    So when it comes ot Kachhera as per Hindus also Hanuman never wear Kachhera but Langot.Rath Laal Langot.Read Daiper type thing.

    It is more like trinagular cloath.All sides eqaul.FromTip of one angle pointing downward a long strinp of cloath attached,sufficient to cover teh gential of the male.while other two angles have string of cloath attached,to tie it around the waiste.Das himslef is a wrestler and wears this so knows the difreance of Langot and Kachhehara.

    And then to make things more clear.To illitrate and people who have never learned Gurbani before.It is difficult to let them understand the minutes thing just at start.At start we have to talk some thing like we are ourself illitrate,and then only do we move closer to the person and preach him truth which needs high intellect.But only after he is motivated to develop that intellect.

    It will be strange but truth at Sants them seve may know that there is no sin in meat eating yet they may preach otherwise.Once a Sant went to a Nihung and Nihung was about to eat meat.Nihungs offered same to Sant and Sant ate it after saying Brahm Gyan Bharam Ka Nash.

    followers of Sant asked that he preaches to not eat meat to followers and himself ate meat and had company of meat eating Nihung.Then Sant explined them some thing about truth.Avstha or state of mind matters.There are ways to let us reach there.

    Das himself tried to talk as missionary talked to das,to a Patit person(who was truch driver and met das at Uttranchal).He told das that he is anparth(uneducated) and can not understand what das is trying to convey.Das only wanted to prove him that Amritdhari can eat meat.

    Then with referance given to Sants and talking in stories and many such thing,he was able to understand das's point of view.

    So Taksali Baba's or Baba Ranjit Singh Ji may teach something elkse at strat but at higher levle things are told more correclty.

    Say to young boy who is in first standard,school staffs will make many stories to prevent him from going to jungle nearby.But once that person is say in 12th Standard.Same school staf may send the same boy in jungle and to get more info of that.

    Problem comes when boys of first standard tell 12th standard boys to not to go into Jungle as there could be a lion there(12th Standard guys know that there are no cats even in there).anyway das is honoured to have company of yourself(Brother Akashdeep Singh Ji) and Bhai international Akali.

    But to preach Truth is bit difficult then realising that,And Akal willing we all will over come that.Best of luck and Akal bless.
     
  12. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Das again Thanks Gyani Sahib and his coments have again prevented das from commiting a Kurehit.Das was realy been told one of renowned missionary of Gurmat that it is Hindus or Brahmins conspiracy to divide Sikhs and Muslims and Sikhi rahit as per end of Dasham Granth in which Halal is termed as Haram is work of Bhai Nand Lal and Guru did not prevent us from eating Halal.

    Das again thanks Gyani Sahib Ji for help he provided but Halal is sacrifisal only during Id Ul Azha while name of Allah is said otherwise and blood is drained as to let blood(a symbol of life as per Old Testment so Kosher(some Jews are doing kosher of pig also)) be out.Kuran forbades the consumption of blood.If neded Ayats from Suras can be provided.

    But das can understand that from Gyani Sahib Ji thing that Allah or Devi do not eat animal and so such things should not be eaten also make sense.

    Das will when ever does he meet his Arbic frined will tell him(Arab) that Das will not eat Halal even after painkiller been given to it.

    Then coming to Bhai Akashdeep Singh Ji.

    As you know that in Taksal Maryada eating cow also is not allowed while das eats beef.So das is not from thier side.

    Reason for das's defending AKJ,Taksal or Kala Afghana Ji at occaision has some other reason.That is more an attempt to let fellow Sikh understand the view point of another.

    on meat issue Das read work of Talwara Sahib,Das nenve said that Talwara sahid or Bhai Randheer Singh Ji were wrong.Das's preception of Gurbani is differnt then what they prcived.

    In Guru Granth Sahib Ji some things about Brahma a demigod is writtan.
    1.Brahma was bron of lotus.
    2.Brahma entered into stem of lotus.
    3.If das is not mistaken Brhama spoke Vedas(as per Hindus four Heads of Brhama are one Veda each).

    Thing over here is that there is no Brhama at all for an enlightened Sikh.Then why did Guru wrote all that?

    To let Sikhs or non Sikhs get the crux of matter vide examples and understand the absolute Truth vide relative things.

    As per scince all humans are not equal more due to genes or variance of environment.

    But as per faith or contemprarya social scine of democratic set up all are treated eqauly.But still libral way provide them toi tread best path for them.In autocrartic communists we have differnt types of people been pushed into same work.We call that in Hindi Gadha Gorha Ek Saman({censored word, do not repeat.} and Horses put alike for same task).

    why das diviated from topic comes now over here.

    When communsts Singh that this saffron colour cloath was used by Rani Jhansi or Shiva JI which they will use to bring communsion in India(vide Bhagat Singh).It does not mean that left guys have nay link to Shiva ji or Rani Jhansi but to attract thier follower or patriots into left fold(like our member Raj Khalsa thinks of Bhagat Singh as patriot).

    Gandhis wearing one Langot also was more to attract poor guys.

    So when it comes ot Kachhera as per Hindus also Hanuman never wear Kachhera but Langot.Rath Laal Langot.Read Daiper type thing.

    It is more like trinagular cloath.All sides eqaul.FromTip of one angle pointing downward a long strinp of cloath attached,sufficient to cover teh gential of the male.while other two angles have string of cloath attached,to tie it around the waiste.Das himslef is a wrestler and wears this so knows the difreance of Langot and Kachhehara.

    And then to make things more clear.To illitrate and people who have never learned Gurbani before.It is difficult to let them understand the minutes thing just at start.At start we have to talk some thing like we are ourself illitrate,and then only do we move closer to the person and preach him truth which needs high intellect.But only after he is motivated to develop that intellect.

    It will be strange but truth at Sants them seve may know that there is no sin in meat eating yet they may preach otherwise.Once a Sant went to a Nihung and Nihung was about to eat meat.Nihungs offered same to Sant and Sant ate it after saying Brahm Gyan Bharam Ka Nash.

    followers of Sant asked that he preaches to not eat meat to followers and himself ate meat and had company of meat eating Nihung.Then Sant explined them some thing about truth.Avstha or state of mind matters.There are ways to let us reach there.

    Das himself tried to talk as missionary talked to das,to a Patit person(who was truch driver and met das at Uttranchal).He told das that he is anparth(uneducated) and can not understand what das is trying to convey.Das only wanted to prove him that Amritdhari can eat meat.

    Then with referance given to Sants and talking in stories and many such thing,he was able to understand das's point of view.

    So Taksali Baba's or Baba Ranjit Singh Ji may teach something elkse at strat but at higher levle things are told more correclty.

    Say to young boy who is in first standard,school staffs will make many stories to prevent him from going to jungle nearby.But once that person is say in 12th Standard.Same school staf may send the same boy in jungle and to get more info of that.

    Problem comes when boys of first standard tell 12th standard boys to not to go into Jungle as there could be a lion there(12th Standard guys know that there are no cats even in there).anyway das is honoured to have company of yourself(Brother Akashdeep Singh Ji) and Bhai international Akali.

    But to preach Truth is bit difficult then realising that,And Akal willing we all will over come that.Best of luck and Akal bless.
     
  13. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Das reads again about Kachhehra thing.It is more like that this thing Kachhehra was used in past also(a refereance been givne from other faith).the way referance about hairs are given from other faiths also above.

    And thing Jat Sat(high moral charector and Truth Fullness is attached to it).Like we can say that this Kirpan only was there with Hazrat Ali (which made him Lion of Allah)and this Kirpan only was with Laxaman with which he killed demons.So more a way to explain.

    But das also finds some factual mistakes.Bhai Dharam Singh ji were not a jatt of Delhi but he was from Hastinapur(about 100 Km north East of Delhi).

    But das finds that mnay people commit mistake in Punjab behloding Delhi(indraprstha or inderpat(like other 4 pats like panipat etc.)) as Hastinapur.
     
  14. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Hanuman was never a jut sutt follower. He was given sraap to be naked and raam chundra could only give him langoat. Hanuman never wore kaschera so taksali baba lied. Why are you defeding a chor? Are you a chor too? Do you lie? Yes! You are a big time tria chariter follower. Tria chariters also promote sticking thorns up asses of children. Do you do that too since you promote tria chariter and promote promtoers of tria chariter. Who cares if you respect kala afgana, or akj, or taksal. Depending wrong views isn't going to unite Panth. Respect alone won't get jack done. Vijaydeep, are you part of indian military? IF yes, what are you doing on internet? Sikhs aren't hindu so don't do aarth of bani based on vedic philosophy. Vedas ruined india. Gandhi was asked to burn vedas by ambedkar but gandhi refused. Vedas divide people.
     
  15. The Khalsa Fauj

    The Khalsa Fauj
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Your statement that kaam is increased by meat is false. Fish and wine do increase it but not all meats. Garlic and onion is said to increase it the most. I don't see derawalas not eating it. Pakos and Parounthas increase it too yet these derawalas don't ban it. These veggies are known for most child molestations and rapes. E.g. Maanu spehova wala, amar barundi nanaksar, haneka nanaksar wala in vancouver, dhumma, shamsher jagera, chicagowala, etc. etc. List is very long. It is just pankhand to divide the kaum and you are supporting them because you have your agenda assigned by government and rss.
     
  16. Akashdeep Singh

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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    No problem. You have the right to present your point. I just request you to be precise. We all know that you are reading, you dont have to type everything here to prove it.

    ......????

    Can you please cite those lines from Gurbani?

    Giving example is a different thing whereas becoming/acting illiterate is a different thing.



    ...humm...what context??


    hmmm...seems like we are disagreeing a lot. Bhagat Singh studied communism while in jail and took some notes from various books on various topics, even on "what is love". What was he before taking those notes?

    Publicity stunt from Gandhi. As a matter of fact, I do not agree to most of the Gandhian philosophy and his extraordinary glorification done in the Indian history. He was just wearing a fake mask, from the core he was something else.


    Objection My lord!! This has nothing to do with the case in discussion. We are not discussing the design of Hanuman's kachchera here. The point is that those lines written by Taksal leader are simply wrong. They are giving the wrong meaning to the reader.

    This is a useless argument. I have seen you use this argument for trying to prove the myth that Dasam Granth is the work of Guru Gobind Singh ji. So according to this theory of yours Guru Nanak Dev ji should have first worshipped idols to mix with pandits, should have killed people to mix with cruel muslims ......is that what you think?


    ....what???..in what context.

    Thanks for kind words. I appreciate the time you spend on the internet. I just want to tell you
    1. Please be precise in your debates it takes me quite a while to read, relate and understand what you are trying to say.
    2. Dasam Granth was NOT written by Guru Gobind Singh ji, all those Sikhs who are favoring this myth are actually hurting the philosophy of Guru Nanak Dev ji and are hurting the image of our great Guru Gobind Singh ji. and those guys who wrote (or got written) Dasam Granth are similing - they got what they wanted.
    3. Gurbani is neither inspired nor in favor of Vedic philosophy.
    I agree, I can clearly note that :)
     
  17. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh


    Well das welcomes you and is hapy to read your mind from your post.

    So can you give refreance of any text where Hanuman was givne a curse that he will be naked?If you do not know then untrue is from you bor.Hanuman was cursed that he was to forget his power.He did get this as he once ate sun.

    Coming to reason for his Jat Sat.He once entered Haem iof Ravana to serach Mother Sita,He saw manay female sleeping in many forms and beheld them as his mother yet said that mother Sita could not be one of them.Well if you were at his place.Say if you visit some striping dislay.Das hope you will also act like Hanuman.Das also worte about Hanuman not having Kachera but symbol was of Jat And Sat(do you know what is meant by jat or Yatitva)It is not your jatt.:}{}{}:

    anyway symobls are used in Gurubani like Brahma beng born fromk lotus(to oppse caste)that is not a lie.Giving example from mythology to promate Gurmat as das mentioend was used by Guru also.so erson like you can say lier to all but do spare Guru.

    Coming to Triya Charitars.Das challenges you that if you are son of your father give refreance to Triya Charitar where child abuse is encouraged.Now you lie.:}8-:

    Das did not ask anyone to care or not about das's respecting anyone.But for das all to be respected in Panth as all are usefull in one or the other reason.Be it Kala Afghanaism,be it AKJism or be it Taksal.

    Das has been part of British Army also so who one earth are you to question das's precense at internet.Next yera das may be in your country also.So what can you do of that.Das gets fre time and instead of drinking and going to massage cetre das trys to get nerer knwogglde from sites like Sikh-MARG "The Way Of Life"

    Who anyway told you that bani is based upon vedic philosphy.If Vedas are 20 then Bani is 100.80 extra.

    Then you talk of Baba Sahib Ambedkar with das.Silly thing.Have you read Vedas anyway before you commet on them.Baba Sahib oppsed Manu Samriti and Dalits want it to be Changed.(which is more misinterpreted by seudo Brhamnaicl things).Are you aware that Dalits want term Chura altered from Darbar Sahib also.Will you agreee?And do you know that why so called lower caste Bhaniyari Wala burnt Darbar Sahib's copy.

    It is better that is you are a son of one father then come over in India and take onto enmies of Panth in here instead of showing gimmickery from accros the sea.

    Das will help you.Do not go by bad mouth of das but this is the way Taksali guys and sometime babbers are also seen to incite Sikhs.If you have even a little salt of Guru in you blood.Do something for Panth.Then all this nonsense time wastage for das.
     
  18. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Well present Governmet which is left minded congress and psedou secular wants to destrpy racial RSS.

    Listen bro you can say anything you want.Akal is witness and rest Sangat will decide.This not the first time that you have carried an attack on integrity of das.

    Das did wrote before also that mnay veg stuf also increase lust.

    This also proved that you are not from AKJ and so you lied to das about your connection to AKJ.That was the only reason that das prefer to ingnore your non sense personal attacks.Yuo can say anything you want.

    Das eats meat.Just had chicken patty.Can eat beef also.Das only said that while doing Nam Abhyas,We do not need much food and enrgey and so we may eat less and sleep less.

    But as you are lier and not from AKJ,you have never done that ie Nam Drirh so yuo do not knnow and comment.Meat may have high value of stuf which will increse semena conentent(as Animal proteen is easy to digest then say plant one).Das can digesnt that as das is martial Artists and does carry out Shaster Vidya also.

    If you can not run 15mintue 2mile and can not do pull ups 10 in one go.Then meat you might be eating if not increasing your lust may increse anger or frsutration or say doubt and fear.Extra enrgy has to go out else it make obese.

    Das himself kills animal with Jhataka and can eat any non Hala meat yet he is trying to defend the point of view of non meat eaters.Just let both may come neaer and you are nut,you want to say that das is dividing with an Agenda.

    When 'sikhs' like you are here.RSS or GOI does not has to do any thing to divide Sikhs.Akal Bless you.
     
  19. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Dear Brother,

    Das is happy that like a true missionary you are not nasty with das as borther Khalsa Fauj is.

    Das actuly thanks you for that. tHat you at least do not doubt the integrity of Das.

    So we start.


    Das just wants that each component of Panth should be respected and insteead of destroying them,we rather enter them and reform them.

    There is another issue das has with them.Das put that here also to Bhai Gurvinder Singh Ji,who was from Baba Ranjit Singh Ji(of Dhadrian) side.

    So far Taksal ,Sant among other do not want that female should be allowed to act as Panj Piaras.some orders(Sampradas) may not like female doing Service at Darbar Sahib or reciting Kirtan.

    Das would like to say that not only das but some Nirmals buddies of him also want to let Sants remove this opposition.Bhai Tirath Singh Ji(Like das he is also neo convert to Gurmat but is native Britsher)Nirmala also opposed the opposition Samprdas had for appoiinment of Thre Great Missionaries in SGPC(Sampradas have thoough succeded in that).

    They give referance that at the time of Gurus such thing did not happen.Even if such thig do not happen then,It does not means that we who are given a Guruship as Guru Panth can not start that.

    Five Elements are same and soul is same so what is the probelm.Das finds some anti female bias in Punjabis.sometime it says that they can not read Dasham Granth in front of thier doughter or sisters but do not say same for son and brother.This maginfies further in female feutucide.

    Das will talk about Dasham Granth a bit here again that,it is more to do with scnce then social scince.And Sicne is more basic.And talks of Truth which is eternal.It happend and happens by will of God so is for Good.Social scince describes good or bad.

    But miracles do happens.

    Just das talked in meat issue with Gyani Sahib about naam being medicine of pain.He said that that is spritual.Ad physical medicine is needed.

    Das agreed and had a an experiance here and now.Das had an attack of lices(Das gor infected by one servent he hired(DRkhalsa was there at das's home).

    More of physical medicine came to help.

    Das talked this thing which may appear out of context but God also guides us.Das is more in learning state and Akal helps das's to learn more.

    Taksal was set up by Guru.Kavi Santokh Singh Ji were also from here but he did not belvie in Raagmala created by Guru.

    At present there are 4 gruops.
    1.Bhindran under Gyani Mohan Singh Ji(he is there since Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji left).
    2.Chowck Mehta under Baba Harnam Singh Bhindrawale(formerly Dhuma)
    3.Sanger under Baba Ram Singh Ji(he was supported by sgpc)
    4.Many Taksali who belive that Sant Ji ae still alive.

    2,3 and 4 say Taksal's linage is from Baba Kartar Singh(who moved away from Bhindran where Baba Mohan Singh Ji are still there in old age).

    So diferance of opionion is still there.In University if someone say some thing that may not be policiy of uiversity eternaly.

    Das wants to enter into and reform.Vide Sanatan Sikh(Nirmalas and Nihungs) it is easyier then say like missionary who keeps on condeming them and thier followers will not listen to us at all.(To be continue...)
     
  20. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh
    Das thinks that all the three gruops are expert in thier fields and are needed to let Panth goes for Chardi Kala.

    1. Kala Afghana Sahib

    For removal of ritualism and social reform in Panth.
    2.AKJ.

    They think by thier heart so are full of factor dynamic.Thier motiavtion can be utilised for Panthic betterment.

    3.Taksal.

    Has great intellect,knowldge and Santhya but more sound follower base.So again thier base can be use to preach Gurmat outside the Sikh families as they also know a lot about other faiths.They get teaching of oterh faiths vide Pandits and Maulvis.

    As KF alleged above that das is covert agent of GOI or RSS(das is from technical side and if at all interested then is interested incurbing maoism in India and Nepal).Then why should das pray for unity of various diversfied Panthic bodies?

    It is difficult but Akal's willing we may achive.Just by tolrating other Sikhs divegent views and trying to come near each other with love and sort the things with if needed tactfully.Das used bad word for KF just as he would have used for his yuonger brother to snub him to behave homself.

    If KF(Khalsa fauj) does hate das.das nenver has such feeling for any fellow Sikh.


    Here we go.

    But they are in some context while das finds at higher lelver there is not a singel demigod who is real.Only Akal is real.

    Page 227, Line 2
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲੁ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    ब्रहम कमलु पइआलि न पाइआ ॥
    barahm kamal pa-i-aal na paa-i-aa.
    Brahma entered the lotus, and searched the nether regions, but he did not find the end of it.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 350, Line 17
    ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
    नालि कुट्मबु साथि वरदाता ब्रहमा भालण स्रिसटि गइआ ॥
    naal kutamb saath vardaataa barahmaa bhaalan sarisat ga-i-aa.
    Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 489, Line 8
    ਨਾਭਿ ਕਮਲ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਉਪਜੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੜਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਕੰਠਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
    नाभि कमल ते ब्रहमा उपजे बेद पड़हि मुखि कंठि सवारि ॥
    naabh kamal tay barahmaa upjay bayd parheh mukh kanth savaar.
    From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1237, Line 17
    ਨਾਭਿ ਵਸਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    नाभि वसत ब्रहमै अंतु न जाणिआ ॥
    naabh vasat barahmai ant na jaani-aa.
    Brahma, in the lotus of the navel, does not know the limits of God.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1309, Line 7
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲ ਪੁਤੁ ਮੀਨ ਬਿਆਸਾ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪਨ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
    ब्रहम कमल पुतु मीन बिआसा तपु तापन पूज करावैगो ॥
    barahm kamal put meen bi-aasaa tap taapan pooj karaavaigo.
    Brahma, the son of the lotus, and Vyaas, the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped.
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Then we talk abut Vedas unto Brahma

    [SIZE=-1]Performed an advanced search [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Results 1 - 22 of 22. Search took 0.453 seconds.[/SIZE]
    Page 59, Line 8
    ਪੂਛਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨਾਰਦੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    पूछहु ब्रहमे नारदै बेद बिआसै कोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    poochhahu barahmay naardai bayd bi-aasai ko-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    Go and ask Brahma, Naarad and Vyaas, the writer of the Vedas. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 230, Line 17
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਵੇਦ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥
    ब्रहमा मूलु वेद अभिआसा ॥
    barahmaa mool vayd abhi-aasaa.
    Brahma is the founder of the study of the Vedas.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 423, Line 5
    ਚਾਰੇ ਵੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥
    चारे वेद ब्रहमे कउ दीए पड़ि पड़ि करे वीचारी ॥
    chaaray vayd barahmay ka-o dee-ay parh parh karay veechaaree.
    You gave the four Vedas to Brahma, for him to read and read continually, and reflect upon.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE] Das when he said that as per Gurbani Brahma made Vedas,then das is not endrosing Vedas at all.It is error of interpetaion then act of Das.In Spokes men where Kala Afghana Sahib challenge Vachitar Natak in an English article,there to,he talks that why did not Brahma become Bedi as he wrote Vedas and how can Family of First Master became Bedi? Das has replied that thing in Dasham Granth section. Das has lareadtyy mentioned Bani is 100 and Vedas are 20 only. Vedas were at stage when humans and scince were at developing state.While Gurmat is modern and evolived faith.Not as Sikh but as social scintist Das can say this.So kindly do not misunderstand das. (to be continued..)
     
    #19 vijaydeep Singh, Dec 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  21. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Taksal A critical Analysis

    Gurfateh

    Bro das did put reply of rest of the posts but are not becoming visible as yet.
    So das tries to put them again
    Gurfateh


    Das posted about this but it did not come and clip borard also went of.

    But das will retry to write it.

    As yourself see that das is found out to be as covert agent of RSS or GOI and trying to divide panth as writtan above by das's younger brother.

    So das will explain.for das all forms of Panth are precius and which ever thing we can get from them for Panthic upliftment.We should use.

    1.Kala Afghana Sahib.

    End to ritualism and social reform.
    2.AKJ
    Hight Facot dynamic,thier motiavation can be used for geting things done for Panth at internation forums and in battle fields also.They think by thier Heart.such are good in taking risk.
    3.Taksal.

    Thier knwoledge and intellect is great and they can preach Gurmat more to Turbaned Hindus and non Sikhs.In fact in thier university other faiths are thought by Pandit,Maulvis etc..



    For Brahman and Vedas.

    Page 59, Line 8
    ਪੂਛਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਨਾਰਦੈ ਬੇਦ ਬਿਆਸੈ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    पूछहु ब्रहमे नारदै बेद बिआसै कोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    poochhahu barahmay naardai bayd bi-aasai ko-ay. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    Go and ask Brahma, Naarad and Vyaas, the writer of the Vedas. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 230, Line 17
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਵੇਦ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥
    ब्रहमा मूलु वेद अभिआसा ॥
    barahmaa mool vayd abhi-aasaa.
    Brahma is the founder of the study of the Vedas.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]
    Page 423, Line 5
    ਚਾਰੇ ਵੇਦ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਕਉ ਦੀਏ ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੀ ॥
    चारे वेद ब्रहमे कउ दीए पड़ि पड़ि करे वीचारी ॥
    chaaray vayd barahmay ka-o dee-ay parh parh karay veechaaree.
    You gave the four Vedas to Brahma, for him to read and read continually, and reflect upon.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Das also read in spokesmen Kala Afghana Sahib arguing that why did not Brahma who wrote Vedas become Bedi and and why did family of First Master becaem Bedis.(Das replied this in Dasham Granth thread in this forum only).

    Das views of Gurbani and Vedas will be answered at last.






    The about Brahma and lotus see below.


    Page 227, Line 2
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲੁ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    ब्रहम कमलु पइआलि न पाइआ ॥
    barahm kamal pa-i-aal na paa-i-aa.
    Brahma entered the lotus, and searched the nether regions, but he did not find the end of it.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 350, Line 17
    ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
    नालि कुट्मबु साथि वरदाता ब्रहमा भालण स्रिसटि गइआ ॥
    naal kutamb saath vardaataa barahmaa bhaalan sarisat ga-i-aa.
    Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 489, Line 8
    ਨਾਭਿ ਕਮਲ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਉਪਜੇ ਬੇਦ ਪੜਹਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਕੰਠਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥
    नाभि कमल ते ब्रहमा उपजे बेद पड़हि मुखि कंठि सवारि ॥
    naabh kamal tay barahmaa upjay bayd parheh mukh kanth savaar.
    From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1237, Line 17
    ਨਾਭਿ ਵਸਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
    नाभि वसत ब्रहमै अंतु न जाणिआ ॥
    naabh vasat barahmai ant na jaani-aa.
    Brahma, in the lotus of the navel, does not know the limits of God.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 1309, Line 7
    ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲ ਪੁਤੁ ਮੀਨ ਬਿਆਸਾ ਤਪੁ ਤਾਪਨ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਾਵੈਗੋ ॥
    ब्रहम कमल पुतु मीन बिआसा तपु तापन पूज करावैगो ॥
    barahm kamal put meen bi-aasaa tap taapan pooj karaavaigo.
    Brahma, the son of the lotus, and Vyaas, the son of the fish, practiced austere penance and were worshipped.
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

    Bro anyway at deeper study of Gurbani das finds that Brahma or anydemigod are false and do not exist at all.


    Bro act of putting water towards field in Haridwar was acting like ilitrate but let ilitrate get some sprituality.

    Dressing up like Arab or say if we go by Bhai Gurdas Var giving Azan(deduced to be of Sat Kartar) was more a way to coming to the level of intellectualy lower to uplift them.

    One was to go into mud or swamp,if one was to rescue them from there.




    In True democrcy,it is OK to be Anti scince(Darwins Theory) and let weak(here intellectuly) also be given support.


    Bhagat was a socialist.And was from Arya Samaji family.He was part of adding term Socialist in his his organisations name.He wanted to end what he call rule of native Burgeons after Britshers go and that was a real freedom.


    Bro he was a fake person.Yet Gandhi was able to misguide the masses and still is father of the nation.His mean was OK but motive was not OK neither for Sikh nor for Hindu.


    But das has read that Tenth Master when went into farmer Area said,Jaisa Des Vaisa Bhes,(Das forgets this word but more to do with aroud the belt so perhaps Kamari) Lungi Mode Khes.(Sau Sakhi).

    Even if you can not belive this but First Master did wear Arebic dress in Arebia.

    When we go to preach someone our ideology.It is OK that they win our confidance,and let them think that we are thier own.Let them have sense of belonging towards us.Then only we win thier confidance and they may find we talk good for them and they be like us.

    In India(AP) Christian(Catholics) missioanaries wear saffron cloaths to let Hindus be attracted.



    This thing only is more to do with going to the lelve of target potential convert and then after dialogue making him converted.


    Bro das is more like slave to Great Gursikh and Good human like you.So do not call him lord.

    They are wrong if we take them literaly but das thinks that they were not in context of Kachhera but were more to encourage Jat and Sat related to it.

    One more thing.our Niuhngs make fun of them.They say that when Husban has to make love with wife both keep one leg still attached to Kachhehra.THey may not be very genrous to Taksal either.

    There could be one more thing.some one can misquote thier (Taksal's) Jathedar Saying.Which he might have told to person with lower intellect.and it is coontextual and not absolute.May be it could be interpolated or may be only for context of ew Taksalis and know been told to whole Panth.

    Das has habit to be devil advocate and did defends Islam also(you can ask this from Bhai Manbeer Singh,Raj Khalsa,KDSingh).As no Taksali is there so Das is doing there duty.Had some been writtan for AKj or Kala Afghana Sahib,das would have doe the same.

    Das just gave qoutes above from Gurbani.Like Brahma bron from lotus(which may not be true) but a symbol of Anti Castism.so Hanuman may false in existance but symbol of Jat Sat was to be taken into consideration.

    brother,

    so far such thing was used by Ghugga Sahib when he said that Guru ate Halal.
    Doing and talking is difernent.Act of putting Water in west as das metnioed beore was doing an act of illitrate to expose flaw of illitrate.

    Say if das goes to preach Gurmat in Basti of Churha(Habitation of sweepers) and due to succhham thing and veggy thing do not eat cat or dog they cook them das may not be able to bring them to Gurmat.

    Did not Guru use Hindu terms and Muslims terms for Akal.Why did not he replace all them with Wahiguru or Karta Purakh.
    reasons
    1.Hindu /Muslimsmay get to know true meanigs of the worlds.
    2.Sikhs should not be attracted to other faith.

    Das recomends you to read Sister Harsimrat Kaur work,she is from Missioary side.She is using Biblical terms to let followers of bible follow Gurmat(she is not becoimgn like that but trying to let them be like us).Did not Yogi Bhajan also used Jesus refreacanc eand similar things Baba Virsa Singh Ji used.All got converts from Judeo Chrsitain back ground.

    It depends upon our state of mind if we have less of faith then we lose our faith while preaching in non belivers and if faith is strong.Our faith in adopted by non belives we are preaching.Das hopes that you have got the point.

    Yuo have talked about Dasham Granth,it was more to do with bringing in revolt for rulers in mind of those who were enslaved for ages.And Guru succeded in that.

    There was some logic behind Gurus using Farsi and Sanskrit also in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.To attract Pandits and Farsi reading Muslims into faith and let them also get some idea.Sikhism is not for Sikhs only but for world.Guru made it a preaching faith and we if do not continue with it,We are not following the footsteps of Gurus.

    Kareem(Attribute of Allah),Sivpuri(Salvation of Yogi) are used in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Guru used that language but neither he did Salat(Namaz) nor he did Hath Yoga.

    Das hopes it is OK by now what das wanted to convey.Das will try to clrify this again,if needed.



    To be very clear ,when Sant Samaj or Taksalis tell Guru Panth to follow Gurmat as former dictate.Say do not eat meat or do not leave berad open.Guru Panth is higher state then Sants and Taksalis especialy,who look themselves better then Guru Panth.

    We as Guru Panth still thiink student of lower classes of school.Seniors should love juniors and let them be promoted then condeming them.

    Das hope he is OK to explain.

    Bro kindly bear with das.

    his presentation skills are very poor.For that only he was not taken in Indian Army and had to go for Paramilitary intelligence force.

    Help das while editing faults of das and das hopes to learn more from you and rectfy the weakness's of das.

    Das is sorry but work of das is like that he is habtual to provide good lot of Data.some time usefull info becomes hidden in that.

    Das agrees that this is weakness of Das and with age das will try to ove come this.

    Bro Das apriciate your views and finds a bit of differance between his and yuorself preception of Gurmat.

    What das has understod of Gurmat das will try to be precise.
    1.All acts are done by God
    2.Things are only manifestations of God.
    3.Differance between us and Vedanta is that they only have knowledge(Very much like Kala Afghana Sahib) and think that as end to thier faith.In Sikhs we are also told about devotion(Vedanta does not has this),We have to behold universe as form of Akal.If Akal wants,then we serve Akal while serving universe with devotion.If Akal wills,we reach a state when we realsie what we knew.so far we knew that Akal is in all.When we see Akal in all,we realise what we knew.That is state when our ego is no long and we are one with Akal.

    Khalsa is one with Akal,while being alive.

    So coming back to Bani of Tenth Master and First Master.Brother!

    non of the Bani is writtan by any Guru or any Sufi or Bhagat or any Sikh or any Bhatt.All bani is from Akal.Akal does all and can say anything.It was unto Great personalities das mentioed here and they recorded it for us.As Akal does all and can do self description so Ram ,Siam,Mahakal,Gobind etc. are all name of Akal in Dasham Granth and Akal is actual poet.Sri Mukh Wak mean Sri(Respected) Mukh(also mean Mukhi/mukhiya or (village)head or big boss) and Wak(Sentance).

    So Gurus were mere recroders.

    When we talk of Nanakian philosophy.It has nothing to do with Gurmat.That is more a copying wwith Christains(protestants).It is Akali Philosophy.Directly rom God.Who reason of all apprant sin and virtue and does not Akal described Sin in Japu Sahib also and told that they are relative and Akal is absolute.
    Bro so far das did not discuss that vedic thing at all.If at all you find mention of Vedas and Brahma by das as something suspicisus then das will say one thing as a Sikh.

    Vedic things is 20 and Gurmat is 100 so 80 more then Vedic.

    and as a neutral social scinctists.

    There were may things which were to develop during Vedic times.

    But when Gurmat came evolutuion was already there.So ours in modern Faith and with Gurbani Vedas etc. are not needed for salvation.

    Many weakness in Vedic time were over come by Gurbani.

    Das is with you and surprised to see that you have not recogansed das's point of views.

    Das has so far not talked about Vedas as such as we do not need anything if Guru is with us.

    It is in Vachitar Natak.

    Jin Mat Bed Kateban Tyagi Parbrahm Ke Bhye Anuragi

    Those to renoice the views of Vedas,Bilbe and Kuran,become Beloved for Beyond matter(Akal).

    Bed Kateeb Bikhe Har Nahi,Jan Leho Har Jan Man Mahi.
    In Vedas,Bible and Kuran,sustainer is not there,Behold sustainer(God) in the mind of public.

    That is from Dasham Granth and controvversial Bachitar Natak.and iota of other deeper things embbeded.

    Das agrees that if person who does not follow Dasham Granth can get salvation if Akal wants.But also does not feel bad either if some one say that person like das who has faith in Dasham Granth,will go to hell(be reborn).

    Das only want that as much time Akal send das again to earth with new birth .Let Akal make him Sikh of Akal.If Das is rebron as Animal,then also let das maintain faith in Akal.Das does not need any other salvation but faith in Akal is more then anything else for das.Das is kept best as das should be by Akal.No more need of any urther good.
    Thanks but das only want to yourself also try to preach Gurmat to non Sikhs.May be you may make more Akashdeep Singhs.

    Vijaydeep Singh ,anyway,was made by litratrue of Sikh Missioary collage along side Nirmalas from a Hindu fanatics.

    Best of Luck and we are togather brother.
     
    #20 vijaydeep Singh, Dec 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016

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