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Sulhi Paath

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Taranjeet singh, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    I am posting the 'Shabad' for a specific query. I am told by my wife that following ‘shahabd’ is also to be recited as a prayer to keep away the evil spirits. I am not aware of this and would like comments of learned members on this. It is called as –'sulhi-paath'. and appears on ang 825.[;Seems to be controversial to me and have formed no opinion on this as yet and do not do it as a Paath.]


     
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    #1 Taranjeet singh, Nov 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2013
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    This relates to a historical incident in Guru jis life....SK was coming to kill/capture Guru ji when his horse bolted straight into a Brickklin...and he was burnt to death.
    2. Notice that THIS DOESNT mean that we cna assume then Guru Ji never died...becasue Jehangir Chandu etc were NOT "destroyed" like SK !!
    IT simply declares and affirms GURU Jis assertion that EVERY ACTION is HIS HUKM...bad and the Good BOTH come form HIM.....SK wanted to kill Guur Ji..he was burnt alive...BUT same didnt happen to jehangir and Chandu...neither did Aurengzeb get burnt etc etc..
    Concluison" This is MANMATT to take Gurbani as a Mantar....to chase away evil spirits or invite good spirits......NEITHER ..GURBANI is to Accept HIS HUKM in each action.PERIOD.
     
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  4. bscheema

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    yes , Gurbani is not a manttar ..... gurbani is guidelines ,a guidance by guru ji's.....
     
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  5. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    Veer Ji the only way to be sure is to try and use it against the one who suggested it,let me know if it works and I will try it against mine!
     
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  6. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    Spji Veer ji ..I am only half year old in marriage yet. Let me enjoy myself for some time.
    I shall try it after ,say, five six years and then let you know the consequences.
     
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  7. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    LOL.5 years is also a short time..sikhs are for life..dhan pir uh na khyeahn behenn ikhetheh hoi....ONE IN SPIRIT is the way to go....i am sure sp is just joking..his better half must be good....ha ha
     
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  8. Scarlet Pimpernel

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    Don't worry about the consequences I'm fifteen years married ,my wife usually says that we are married for seven life times,God Help Us!

    Gyani is right I was just joking she does not have an evil spirit but sometimes when I was first married because she has eyes like a cat she used to scare me a bit in the dark.
     
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  9. japjisahib04

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    Gyani Ji

    My apologies! I feel this sabd is not related to historical incident but is referring to 'sooli of haumai'.

    sahni
    mohinder
     
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  10. aristotle

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    japjisahib04 Ji,
    The word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' used in this Shabad is clearly a masculine noun as is clear by the use of 'ਹੂਆ', 'ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ', 'ਪਚਿਆ', 'ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ' for it,
    You on the other hand alternatively suggest the translation of ਸੁਲਹੀ as ਹਉਮੈ ਦੀ ਸੂਲੀ. The word ਸੂਲੀ or its derivatives are feminine in nature, except when used as ਸੂਲ which for sure has not been used in this case.

    As we can see in this case, the translation of this word as suggested by you does not stand the test of linguistics.
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    I agree with Aristotle jis views here. Sulhi Khan exists in History of Guru Arjun Ji and he was sent to capture Guru ji just as a few other Khans were s ent to capture Guru gobind Singh ji..and also Guru hargobind Sahib Ji...History is History.
     
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  12. japjisahib04

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    Aristotle Jee

    With due apologies, I feel when gurbani says, 'ਲੋਗੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਇਹੁ ਗੀਤੁ ਹੈ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥ Thus in Brahm Gian it has to be Chetan identity and not any muslim ruler to refer. Why gurbani is called satguru because it diagnosis the symptom of common disease i.e. ego to heal us? As gurbani says, 'ਕਰੈ ਗੁਮਾਨੁ ਚੁਭਹਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਸੂਲਾ ਕੋ ਕਾਢਨ ਕਉ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ let us know what is 'sula' in this pankti - in ancient time while punishing for longest and cruel sufferings a metal rod with sharp groves used to be inserted into the body of that person from bottom to the head and then gradually twisted to cut each nerves one by one -how cruel punishment that used to be and it is used to be called sooli tai charna. Accordingly when our thought process does not match with our inmats, guru sahib calls this state of mind like consigning into 8.4 lacs juenes, it is also equal to sooli tai charna. In simple language, 'ਸਾਕਤ ਹਰਿ ਰਸ ਸਾਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਚਲਹਿ ਚੁਭੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਸਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੨॥ my demons thoughts in devil workshop cuts me into pieces.

    Akal purkah is weperwah - it does not interfere, therefore when guru sahib says, 'ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥ it does not mean that God saved his life from sulhi khan but as per my understanding the God living inside wants to fahsion new creation within me - one creation I got under laws of nature -ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਬਾਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ i.e. my physical body - 'ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ ॥ though in that body all organs are functioning as per laws of nature but that body has been captured by, 'ਉਪਰਿ ਆਇ ਬੈਠੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ॥ - my manh - the devil workshop and guru sahib when says, ' ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ਰਾਖੁ ॥ is referring to second creation i.e. divine wisdom to protect me from garbage thinking and this second creation is labelled as, ' ਦੁਰਲਭ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹ '

    Aristotle Jee, tell me is their any place more pious/blessing than Darbar Sahib where almost 24 hours kirtan of Akal Purakh is sung and in good bhavna. I remember one of the famous hindu bhagwan Dayanad said if this murti cannot protect itself from the mices then how could it protect me. In 1984 when General Brar invaded and humiliated the sanctity of Akal Takhat where was this Akal Purakh. When Indian and foreign TV were showing how defeated Tohra, Langowal and other bearded and turban wearing sardar with their hands up were taken outside Punjab and beaten up and jailed (like in kaala paani) in their own country and by their own army where was Akal Purakh. Even after 28 years General Brar spits and humilates and dare to call us terrorist where is God to shut his mouth.

    Rest tommorrow upon your response as I am getting calls from downstairs for lunch.

    best regards
    sahni
     
  13. aristotle

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    Re: Sulhi...Paath

    @japjisahib04 Ji,
    What you are talking here is in the general sense of Gurbani and I stand with you on that. But, you have completely ignored my argument, and I think that was a valid point I made.
    We should interpret this Shabad on the basis of what is 'actually written' in it, rather than according to what we think it is. Modifying the meanings at our convenience and ignoring grammatical rules would be doing a great disservice to the spirit of Gurbani.

    I pray you to stick to our discussion. I wonder why you posted this thing when it isn't even remotely connected to the matter at hand.
     
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  14. japjisahib04

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    My apologies once again. My wife was calling for lunch and I had to rush. Further reason of quoting was that if God saved guru ji from sulhi khan then why didn't save His own abode from monsters.

    Now coming back to your point, 'The word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' used in this Shabad is clearly a masculine noun as is clear by the use of 'ਹੂਆ', 'ਹੋਇ ਗਇਆ', 'ਪਚਿਆ', 'ਛੋਡਿ ਗਇਆ' for it'. Yes I agree in this shabd word 'ਸੁਲਹੀ' is clearly masculine noun but it is addressed as a first person to myself - my egoistic manh and through this sabd guru sahib is realizing me the pains of sulan, thorns due to my thought process and says. I was born as 'paak -pious but have become 'naapak - unpious. It does not mean that guru sahib had become naapak - that was the height of humility that he used to apply each avgun on him but it was for us to learn.

    best regards
    sahni
     
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  15. aristotle

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    japjisahib04Ji,
    This Shabad is not of hate towards an individual. As you can see, no single negative word is directed at Sulhi Khan. This instead, is a Shabad of thanksgiving, of faith towards the unsurmountable Lord and of Charhdikala even in the face of extreme dangers. Your mention of Operation Bluestar, I must say again, does not serve any purpose.

    I have always admired your ability to visualise the big picture in every discussion that transpires. But somewhere down the line, we have to accept that the best guide to the Shabad is the Shabad itself. The grammatical problems in your proposed translation are simply too major to be ignored. A feminine noun when addressed in first person remains true to its gender according to Punjabi grammar, it cannot mutate into a masculine noun. Secondly, The word 'Sulhi' does not even occur in first person here. Ignoring Gurbani grammar is not a very wise thing to do. Period.
     
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  16. japjisahib04

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    Let us agree to disagree. Only thing I wanted to add that almost all the six thousands shabds contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for me are of chardhikala, though someone has picked up some sabds from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and prepared a 'Path da gutka' and named it as dukhbhanjani sahib. This way giving importance to certain sabd while ignoring other is total descrimination, but we cannot stop anyone. For me all the six thousands sabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji highlights upon my deficiencies in a positive manner and is all about myself as a first person to be truthful and not for others. Unlike the general belief that most the sabds are just repeat, a close look shall reveal, Guru sahib through six thousand different concepts tried to explain us how to be sachiar but as Bhagat Kabir Ji regretfully says, 'ਚਚਾ ਰਚਿਤ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚੇਤਹੁ ਚਿਤਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਬਚਿਤ੍ਰ ਇਹੈ ਅਵਝੇਰਾ ॥ ਤਜਿ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੈ ਚਿਤੁ ਰਾਖਿ ਚਿਤੇਰਾ ॥੧੨॥ God has painted the greatest picture of the world with various colors which are used a metaphore, but these wondrous creations have now become the cause of concern, as mankind is emotionally attached with them and have diverted to worship the pictures of His creations rather than practically living truthfully.” - Guru Granth ang.340.15.

    For me, in this sabd 'sulhi' stands devil workshop. And once it is overpowered/transformed by divine then ,'ਸੁਲਹੀ ਕਾ ਹਾਥੁ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਪਹੁਚੈ then this devil workshop cannot reach or pollute the thought process again. Like we have sabd from Kabir jee, ' ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਬਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥ - once transformed by divine then it enters into eternal bliss which is the real mission of human.

    Had a nice discussion with you,

    best regards
    sahni
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    Reposting the shabad so we don't lose the context of the words under discussion

    When all is said and done, acceptance of hukam is a cure for haumei. However, the shabad is about hukam. The story of Sulhi Khan, henchman and revenue officer, is an actual historical event about a real person; and its weight as such should not be discounted. If Guruji makes mention of it, it affirms the oral tradition of a Guru's life. It is not unusual for a Guru to pause in a raag to relate a story from personal experience, and then from that draw a spiritual lesson. This is one of those times. Guru Arjan Dev is stopping in the middle of the song, and asking us to consider the lesson learned from the story of Sulhi Khan. The lesson is that, for inexplicable reasons, and in unforeseen moments, things happen, that alter the course of our lives. So it happened for Guru Arjan Dev... And so it happened to Sulhi Khan, in most bewildering circumstances. Moreover, even an emperor's schemes did not work and nothing is left of him or his lifetime of plotting. In view of this chain of events, all one can do is make a sacrifice of one's own self to parabh (which deserves a better translation than 'God' because it means the ever-present power of divinity which arranges all affairs.)

    This shabad is situated between two other thoughts. It has a context in the bigger raag. By just looking at the verse that closes the shabad just before it

    and the verse that begins the shabad to follow

    We can see what is gained by pausing to hear a little story of Sulhi Khan. We are totally dependent on the mercy of the parabh who is nirmal (I take this to mean not just pure, but without bias, without judgement, without any idea of paybacks, simply nirmal, it is what it is). Gurdev in his wisdom (for he, su-ami, is complete wisdom) has resolved everything. 'He saved me from Sulhi Khan.' Unblemished he deserves unblemished service (devotion).

    p/s Is there a better translation for this jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk?

    So no, not about casting a spell, but about doing some heavy reflection on relationship with parabraham.
     
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  18. aristotle

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    Prof. Sahib Singh translates ਜਨ ਕਾ ਵਾਕੁ as ਸੇਵਕ ਦੀ ਅਰਦਾਸ(Prayer/ Ardas of the servant), which IMO will be more appropriate here, using which 'Kaho Nānak ṯis parabẖ balihārī jin jan kā kīno pūran vāk' can be interpreted as,

    instead of
     
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  19. spnadmin

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    Thanks. That sounds more fitting.
     
  20. japjisahib04

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    Spnadmin jee
    First I should know what was the vaak of my guru which was accomplished, whether to get rid from the suffering of vicious vikar and how to be truthful or by keeping grudge to glorify punishment to sulhi khan and his family members who had no faults of theirs in that plotting and conspiring. So the moments I realized the symptoms of sufferings I approach to my satguru. Gurbani narrates the vaak like this, 'ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਮਤਾ ਜਿ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਚਲਾਵਉ ॥ when I approached my satuguru and explained symptoms of my sufferings to diagnoise, first thing he writes me the prescription ਦੁਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਦੁਇ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਪਹੁਚਾਵਉ ॥ he takes my manh to consiousness to see the logic and be discriminatory intellect ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਏ ਮਤਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਉ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ takes effort and avoid which over reacts ਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੁਹੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੧॥ I totally surrender my matt and adopted divine wisdom. Similarly 'ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ does not mean I sacrifice but it is bal+hari or I am surrending my matt to adopt your divine message which paved the way for unity.

    Finally the context of the sabd is not hukam as per my understanding

    best regards
    sahni
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    sahni j

    I agree that Guru Arjan Dev would never harbour a message of punishment toward the family of Sulhi Khan, nor even to Khan himself, nor to Chand who was part of the treachery and whose scheming led the horse of Sulhi Khan to bolt into the oven which roasted his master, nor even to the emperor whose scheme Sulhi Khan had gone to carry out. We look at the shabad and the subject of revenge never comes up to begin with. Nor did I bring it up.

    And I also agree that making a sacrifice - balhari - remains surrendering one's matt to the Guru. And, to surrender one's plots and plans and the clever pursuit of evil is to surrender one's matt.

    But all that considered, when one truly comes to terms with your very words
    then one has come to terms with hukam.

    So I stick by my guns on this point. All the plotting and planning of evil did not succeed, but led to destruction and disgrace. The One who created him (the emperor, you, me or anyone) gave him a push. On the other side, when I am the perfect 'slave' my ardaas is heard and answered. The context in which some choose to plot evil and are destroyed, yet others find bliss who chose to be slaves of the Guru, depends on who sees the truth of hukam and who does not.

    I can't say more because I have reached the limit of my understanding of this shabad. Forgive me.
     
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