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Sub Gurus of Sikhs?

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Archived_member2, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    The present true Guru of Sikhs does not speak. The sub Gurus of Sikhs are not able to convince the intelligent and young generation, in my observation.
    I feel there is a communication gap between the curious Sikhs and the sub Gurus on the stages. After the congregations they just disperse.
    Do you also feel that they should allow the Sangat to ask openly sub Gurus the questions in Gurudwaras?
    Or are you of the opinion that also sub Gurus should not be Dehdhaaree and wiped out?
    Please discuss it with open heart?

    Balbir Singh
     
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  3. drkhalsa

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    Dear Balbir singh ji

    My request is

    Before this topics take of in some unwanted direction Please

    Define SubGuru ? What does it mean to you ? For me I havent ever heard it


    Surely I will come up with my views once there is mpre clarity what are you asking

    Thanks

    Jatinder Singh
     
  4. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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  5. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    I know a school teacher. He visited London with his students in an exchange programme. From many different possibilities he chose to visit the prominent Sikh Gurudwara also. He was excited after his returning home to meet me. He described his visit like he had an adventure with his pupils.
    For the first time I heard few impressions about Sikhism from the perspective of a Gora who visited a Gurudwara for the first time.
    He found some persons sitting nearest to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and doing Keertan. They were sitting at the little lower stage than the present Guru of Sikhs but higher than the gathering. His wanted to know the rank specially for the Kathaa Vaachak if he were the sub Guru. He used many interesting terms. We may talk about those another time.
    I feel we visit the Guru at Gurudwara not only for Langar but also to listen. The Guru does not speak but his subordinates. Most of us have some questions regarding our spiritual growth and the wisdom of the true Guru's message. These questions but remain because the Baabaa Jee is always in hurry or surrounded by his admirers.
    The result is my post on this topic.


    Balbir Singh
     
  6. drkhalsa

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    Thank you Balbir Singh Ji

    Do you also feel that they should allow the Sangat to ask openly sub Gurus the questions in Gurudwaras?


    It is strange that I never Appreciated this Point till now in my Life .Its amazing I neverseriously Thought that We should ask them there and then

    May be most of Gyani ji/Bhai Sahib /Sant ji/Baba Ji are held in such a high esteem by organiser and also some loyal fans that no body dears to mess up with them and they have managed to create Just one way communication during Katha

    Yes I would like the Discusions odne thre and then and all these preacher should be able to tacle and answer queries of seekers


    Or are you of the opinion that also sub Gurus should not be Dehdhaaree and wiped out?
    Please discuss it with open heart?

    Personally Its does not matter to me whether Who is Giving me GUR or more understanding regarding Spirtual Riddle whether he is living or non Living as long as it does its purpose well

    But I guess very few preacher can stand this challenge of open disscusions as new generation questions could be too difficult for them to handle and obviosly there number will decrease



    Jatinder Singh
     
  7. spnadmin

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    I myself have never hear of a sub-Guru. Many thoughts come to mind.

    My question -- and if necessary I will check. But is it not true that the conduct of a service in Gurdwara is pretty much mapped out in the Rehit Maryada --historically? There were concerns prior to about 1922 or thereabouts that there was so much creativity in services that some standard basics were believed needed. The motive being -- Sikhi to be recognized as Sikhi needs to be fairly similar around the world.

    So by evaluating what is in Rehit Maryada we may find the answer. Will get back on that.
     
  8. rainy

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    Hi,

    I would just like to deviate a bit here. In the gurudwara, some of the learned men may enlighten the sangat about gurubani. However beware of people (babas) who look like sikh gurus and use gurubani and other holy texts to gain power and manipulate people. They soon become a separate sect with their photos hanging on the walls and their own shabs ( praising themselves ). Gurubani has answers to all our doubts and questions and Guru Govid Singhji had said that after Him, we must follow the Holy Book, not any guru, or sub - guru for that matter.

    Regards

    Rainy :)
     
  9. spnadmin

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    rainy ji

    I don't think you are deviating at all. In fact you are reading between the lines here and getting to the heart of the deception. What you describe happens all too frequently. Bani is Guru. Thanks for this observation -- it clarifies an important issue.
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all!

    Many do not like to give them the certificate that they are the Sub Gurus. Perhaps they want such titles for them. Still, some stage artists in Gurudwara are proud to feel the Sub Gurus role.
    I am not talking about Saints. They are not found in Gurudwaras anyway. The atmospheres of Gurudwaras are more of the social clubs.


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Balbir Jee,

    You are in a state of confusion, that's why almost all your queries are not straight-forward.
    You could be in such a parallel state which one of my friends in Bangkok was once in. This is what he described this state as:
    1. He followed Eckankar and later found out that most of the text books were not Paul Twitchell's real experiences but an exact replica of Sant Mat or Radhasoami.
    2. He left Eckankar and joined Radhasoami - read a few books, followed all the instructions diligently, and was quite happy because the books were a fraction of the cost as compared to buying ECK books.
    3. But Radhasoami turned out to be a social club where 'everyone' was convinced to get admitted into their ayurvedic therapy cum medical centre in Beas which cost money. Then it was this trip and that trip. Soon he faced financial wear off but kept to his "meditation". When asked how he was doing, he said: great!

    But everyone around knew there was nothing great about him because even I noticed it. He had more ego than before. His brother told me that he doesn't know what humility means in the practical sense. His brother followed Buddhism but later changed back to Sikhism.

    Now, lately, when I asked him about Sant Mat, he says he's not keeping up with the exercises and he doesn't hear the inner sound in both ears the way he has been promised. But along the way he did alot of reading because he was recommended some books of Julian Johnson and Lekh Raj Puri.

    I questioned him about the internet exposure on Gurinder (the present dehdharee guru of radhasoami) and he was relectant to talk about it.
     
  12. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Begum Jee!

    Some avoid talking about the sub Gurus in Gurudwaras. Why? I have no interest to know about other sects. Those are so many.
    Come to ONE that leaves all sorrows.

    For a change this is not a joke only. A man asked his friend. What is the difference between a wife and a Begum? The friend answered, 'The husband now bears all the sorrows of the Begum.
    Marry God and all sorrows are HIS. I feel Begums are great.

    My true Guru showed me the way to the real Gurudwara. My inner Jyotish (light of God's wisdom) helped to move properly. I am happy to have found it within. I find it strange when I come out and visit the worldly Gurudwaras and wonder.
    God has so many different expressions.


    Balbir Singh
     
  13. Astroboy

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  14. drkhalsa

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    Thanks for the post Begum Ji

    It was worth reading.
    Yes I am aware of such happening in various spirtual seekers life but What I have learned that If seeker is Earnest he surely find way out of such traps and meet the one God


    Thanks

    Jatinder Singh
     
  15. spnadmin

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    Begum ji

    Your post was great. The YouTube clips were a truely fine gift to us. A friend on Sikhnet introduced me to the music of Abida Parveen-- always wonderful. Thank you.
     
  16. Huck_Finn

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    veerji

    you may also like to listen to some songs by Barkat Sidhu.

    sadly those are not available on youtube.
     
  17. drkhalsa

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    I will try to find it out .


    I have listened to Abeeda Parveen for quite sometime mostly in My college days But Watching her perfrom on stage ( I mean vedio) is all together different Experience .She is exception in Delivery with Lot od expression .I really Like the vedios.




    On google I found thses track

    Punjabi Music - Barkat Sidhu's Punjabi Songs
     
  18. Huck_Finn

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    thanks jatinder ji
     
  19. adeep646

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    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
    Guru means Gu- Darkness Ru- Light hence to enlighten

    When we are born the first Guru is our mother and second is our Father.
    in this world Air is also Guru "Pawn Guru Pani Pita" because this whole world is working with Pavan (air) without Pawn there is no life in this body. without Pavan it is Game Over.

    The Gurbani Guru says the SatSangat is the Guru where we come to learn "Bramh Da Gian" Knowlegde of God and his Creation.
    and in our Religion the True 5 Pyara are also the Guru that GIVE us the Waheguru Gurmantr.

    Now what i think you are talking about is what guru to do???

    "So Gur Karo Jo Sach Dirrarai, Akath Kathai, Shabad Milai"

    be the student of that Guru that ephasizes the Waheguru all the time and encourages practice of how to reach him in strict accordance to the techniques described in the SGGS.
    "Akath Kathai" speaks of the Akath Katha the story of the Waheguru from your birth and separation to Milap. this information cannot be fathomed by our minds. and
    "Shabad Milai" Shabad is the Guru. This Panch Shabad or Naam or Siege Dun ((" 5 Pardan Panch Parvan, 5 Pave Darge Mann, 5 Soe Dar Rajan Pancha Ka GUR ek Diane" ))is within us and the True Guru will teach us how to unify our Mann with this Treasure of Nam that is vibrating within us.
    "Nau Nid Amrit Prabh Ka Nam Dehi Me is Ka Bisram" The Treasure of Nam is within this body" The Gurbani is all "Antar Da Gian" Knowlege of whats within.

    Simran.info (Meditation Information) is a very helpful site but you must listen to all the KAtha's in their entirety approximatley 30 hours. to make any judgements before is not wise. "Sagal Bolan Ka Mahi Vichar"
     
    #18 adeep646, Aug 22, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2007
  20. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all Adeep646 Jee!

    Quote "Guru means Gu- Darkness Ru- Light hence to enlighten."
    Please let all know which dictionary explains this. I will be thankful.

    Quote "The Gurbani Guru says the SatSangat is the Guru where we come to learn 'Bramh Da Gian'."
    That is right. I hope all know that SatSangat is the company of Truth, not the congregation.

    Quote "and in our Religion the True 5 Pyara are also the Guru that GIVE us the Waheguru Gurmantr."
    It may be your religion. In Sikhism five Pyaarays are not the Gurus.

    Quote "So Gur Karo Jo Sach Dirrarai, Akath Kathai, Shabad Milai
    be the student of that Guru that ephasizes the Waheguru all the time and encourages practice of how to reach him."
    The true Gurus never revealed that the true Sabad is Waheguru.

    Quote "Simran.info (Meditation Information) is a very helpful site but you must listen to all the KAtha's in their entirety approximatley 30 hours. to make any judgements before is not wise."
    The Gurus say, that is available in a moment (Khin), why thirty hours for that?

    The Guru is singing.
    ਸੁਣਿ ਸਾਜਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੀਤ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥
    सुणि साजन मेरे मीत पिआरे ॥
    Suṇ sājan mėrė mīṯ pi*ārė.
    Listen, O my beloved friends and companions:


    ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਖਿਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਉਧਾਰੇ ॥
    साधसंगि खिन माहि उधारे ॥
    Sāḏẖsang kẖin māhi uḏẖārė.
    in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you shall be saved in an instant.


    Balbir Singh
     
  21. TGill

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    Balbir ji I've some sincere questions -
    - Why do you ask a question, if you already have the answers.
    - Also, I'm confused if you are one with God, or still a seeker? Please clarify. I've read some of your posts where you're tending to claim that you are quite high on spiritual plane.
    However, your posts are always interesting. :)
    Please take my questions as very sincere ones, I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
     

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