Sri Guru Granth Sahib: Review Of ੴ (Ik▫oaʼnkār)

[spnadmin]

Sorry but we need an English summary for the previous post. Otherwise we are spamming.

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Spnadmn
You need not post the reply without my permission. In case you intend to post the same please seek my formal and prior approval.

Ishna ji,
Your query is not related to Ik-oangKaar or Akkal Purukh. It is related to 31 Raagas that are prescribed in bani in Guru Granth sahib. It is popularly called as 'Dakhni Oankaar'. It is primarily employed with the bani of Guru Nanak dev ji [Mehl-I] .
So far as I recall the first Line of this particular bani appears on page/Ang 929 that begins with 'Oankaar Brahma Utpat.'..in Ramkali Mehl-1 Dakhni Oankar.
Ambarsaria ji,
Hope you can also look into this.
Thanks

 

[Ambarsaria]

Spnadmn
.......... In case you intend to post the same please seek my formal and prior approval.

Taranjeet Singh ji can you explain what you mean and if it relates to others who may quote your posted material in replies.

I thought as part of sharing no one needs anyone's permission to quote and reply, etc.

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

It can lead us to the one who is the source. 'Ikongkar satiguri Prasad' is also a way of remembering HIM. Constant Simran is required. One may practice on 'Mool Mantra' or 'waheguru'. Let us see the intrinsic equivalence of each word of Mool Mantra instead of Beej Mantra .

Ik ong kaar = Waheguru
Satinamu= Waheguru
Nirbhau= Waheguru
Nirvair = Waheguru
Akalmurt =Waheguru
Ajooni =Waheguru
Saibhung = Waheguru
Gur Prasad= Obtained thru Guru blessings||1|

Aad sach = Waheguru
Jugad sach= Waheguru
Hey bhi sach = Waheguru
.... Hosi bhi Sach = Waheguru'||1|

Ultimately It is 'waheguru' ......

Taranjeet ji,

Guru Fateh.

I beg to differ with you. If all these words meant Vaheguru, then we would have 1429 pages of SGGS, our only Guru, filled with just one word which is not the case. It is too simplistic and abstract in my opinion because SGGS is our only road map.

If I am not mistaken, at times we dwell so much in our personal devotion that we tend to ignore the Gurmat intellect which our Gurus teach us and they also teach us how to grasp it and practice on it.

Mool Mantar for me is the Blue Print of Sikhi, the Jap its foundation and the rest of the SGGS is left for the individual's quest. By that I mean, it depends on the person what kind of mansions they want to build with their desire, thirst, perseverance,dedication and devotion.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Ps: SPNADMIN did not mean any harm but as many do not know Gurmurkhi, there are some rules we have to follow in the forum. Sending personal messages for rules not being followed becomes impractical as the Sevadars in here have a lot in their platter to deal with.

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Tejwant Singh ji,

Your comments are appreciated. Let spnadmin re-adjust this post wherever it fits in best. After all he/she is also doing sewa.

I have read your post in regard to your experience with Simran and japna etc and you have some mind-set about this. In any case I would like to know as to which part of the post you are not comfortable with except with the points stated above. We may not converge on certain points but the divergence should also be limited after all we are all sikhs.

Before I indulge in further I would like to know:

What are your specific views :

1.Should sikhs stop doing simran and japna.Is it against our religion?
2. Should we only read bani and interpret it and realize by reading only?
3. Should we always be listening to Katha Keertan and not have some private moments with him alone; Is sikhi against this?
4. Does it really matter if we carry on as it suits us.?
5.I am neither a puritan nor cynical. But there should be some beginning somewhere at some point of time. Bani is fairly voluminous. Having understood the essence ,It is important to practice it also. What are your specific views on this?

We all have our opinions and we may differ but let us enjoy our self where we converge.
Let me clarify with an example. With due regards to Ambarsaria ji, I am not at all in agreement the way Sukhmani sahib is being done here.To me it seems as if I am misled. I made my point twice.

But it shall be very embarrassing for me and to Ambarsaria ji [I shall now address you as Amber, if it is O.K. and please confirm as well] as well if I try to harp on the same tune time and again. Let him do that he is doing. All I can do is to not involve myself in any argument that may be painful to both of us. In this democratic set up we have right to opinion and to express the same in a pleasant manner.
You have asked me to state as to what should we do with 1429 pages. I am too young to suggest anything. Ask this question to Guru ji sincerely from the core of your heart and all your queries would be answered. He is too kind and listens, it is my experience.

Ambarsara ji,

You are free to quote my posts for discussion purpose. I had very specifically addressed spnadmin to not to re post the post that has been deleted. We are all sikhs and the moments we are together should be enjoyed. Life is too short for arguments. Let Guru Sahib bless us all .

 

[Ambarsaria]

Taranjeet Singh ji some comments.

Ambarsaria ji [I shall now address you as Amber, if it is O.K. and please confirm as well] as well if I try to harp on the same tune time and again.

You can address me as Ambar if I can address you as Twinkle (if it is O.K. and please confirm as well)lol peacesign. You are very legalistic I am straight shooter at times less than astute or polite.

Ambarsara ji,

You are free to quote my posts for discussion purpose. I had very specifically addressed spnadmin to not to re post the post that has been deleted. We are all sikhs and the moments we are together should be enjoyed. Life is too short for arguments. Let Guru Sahib bless us all .

Thanks and I fully agree about life too short.

I let you be the judge but I smell disagreement or holding back comments in your answer. This is not helpful to me in my initiative with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji banis. I don't want to be corrected on the last day, I rather clear things up and stop making mistakes as soon as possible. Please help through private messaging if you so choose. I know you have turned off Private Messaging receipt and you may have perfectly valid reasons. I could use upfront comments even if painful or direct.

From your posts I sense you are learned, respectful and co-operative. I have no doubt you may be even more in tune with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji than me.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Taranjeet Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

You write:

I have read your post in regard to your experience with Simran and japna etc and you have some mind-set about this. In any case I would like to know as to which part of the post you are not comfortable with except with the points stated above. We may not converge on certain points but the divergence should also be limited after all we are all sikhs.

I beg to differ with you. It is not the question of mind-set. It is the question of what our Gurus mean when they use the words Simran and Naam Japnah.

For me the words mean to develop Gurmat thought process, through singing, listening, reading, studying, understanding and practicing Gurbani in our lives, so goodness can be bred within to be shared with others. Neither of them (Simran and Naam Japnah) mean parroting or chanting to me. Brahmins/Pundits used to do that. They used to repeat OM again and again and they also urged their followers to do the same because they were the only one authorised to read their holy books. They had the monopoly over them.

But thanks to Guru Nanak, he showed us how mechanical rituals are futile and useless and opened his thought process to all so everyone could enjoy the Amrit.

Ambarsaria ji has also shared some valueable information about the meanings of the above words in discussion from the Mahan kosh. I am sure you must have read it and I happen to agree with those definitions.

Before I indulge in further I would like to know:

What are your specific views :

1.Should sikhs stop doing simran and japna.Is it against our religion?

Read my answer above. You have to understand what Simran and Naam Japnah means and it is NOT parroting one or 2 words according to Sikhi.

2. Should we only read bani and interpret it and realize by reading only?

Read the answer above.

3. Should we always be listening to Katha Keertan and not have some private moments with him alone; Is sikhi against this?japposatnamwaheguru:

Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent, so with every breath we take, it is a private moment with The Source for me. How can Sikhi be against the omnipresence? Please explain because it is in no one's hands. I am a bit confused at your assertion.

4. Does it really matter if we carry on as it suits us.?

First of all I am confused by what you said. Suit what and about what? Are you talking about your feelings or are you talking about learning from 1429 pages of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

If what suits you turns out be a mechanical meaningless ritual, then you should dwell into Gurbani and find the answers for yourself about it because that is what Guru Nanak told us not to indulge into. Only you can find your own answers with the help of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,our only Guru.

Please read the following described by Ambarsaria ji from Jap Pauri 21. It clearly explains what suits us is not valid. Now, if you have a different interpretation about it, please share with us so we can all learn from it.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/jap-j...gians-japji-sahib-21st-pauree.html#post158152

5.I am neither a puritan nor cynical. But there should be some beginning somewhere at some point of time. Bani is fairly voluminous. Having understood the essence ,It is important to practice it also. What are your specific views on this?

Pardon my ignorance. I have no idea what you mean by the above. Please elaborate is with the help of Gurbani.

We all have our opinions and we may differ but let us enjoy our self where we converge.

I totally agree. That is why Sikhi is the journey of the individual and it is important for us as individuals to find out what the words in the Gurbani mean and what message our Gurus are sending to us in order to become better beings.

Let me clarify with an example. With due regards to Ambarsaria ji, I am not at all in agreement the way Sukhmani sahib is being done here.To me it seems as if I am misled. I made my point twice.

Well, if you see Ambarsaria's ji remarks, he always asks for the input from all, and the basic idea of this forum is to express yourself even if you disagree with someone but explain your personal views first rather than lancing questions about someone else's interpretation.

Once again, the best way would be to give your own interpretation through which all of us can learn the same Shabad from your angle. I have always been doing the same myself on many Shabads posted by Ambarsaria ji and/or others. I will be waiting for your own interpretation of the Shabads that have been posted by Ambarsaria ji. In this case we can all learn from all.

But it shall be very embarrassing for me and to Ambarsaria ji [I shall now address you as Amber, if it is O.K. and please confirm as well] as well if I try to harp on the same tune time and again. Let him do that he is doing. All I can do is to not involve myself in any argument that may be painful to both of us. In this democratic set up we have right to opinion and to express the same in a pleasant manner.

Interaction is not an argument but a learning process. Offer what the message of the Shabad is to you. This is the only way we can learn from each other. This is the reason our Gurus did not put this beautiful poetry into prose to explain it to us and hand it over a platter. They left the interpretation on us and poetry's interpretation changes with time due to our own life experiences and our personal inner development that life offers us.

You have asked me to state as to what should we do with 1429 pages. I am too young to suggest anything. Ask this question to Guru ji sincerely from the core of your heart and all your queries would be answered. He is too kind and listens, it is my experience.

Thanks for prejudging me. Your above post implies that I do not listen to Guru ji. Only you do and you are the only one who holds the "magic key".

When Guru Nanak said that each of the people can be good in their respective religions provided they do good to all humankind, it meant he did not prejudge anyone but gave the benefit of the doubt to all. This is the true Sikhi trait and the wonderful learning process that Guru Nanak and other Gurus gave us the tools to, so that we could make our inner progress towards THE ONE.

So, I will be waiting for your own interpretation about Sukhmani. Amarpal ji has also given his interpretation which you can find in this forum. More the merrier.

Do not hesitate to share what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru shows you. Vand kei chaknah also applies to the soul food.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Taran Tej Akash Saran Ji If you infuse Gods Name you should get lost in wonder at reading Ik ,that way you will never ever reach the next word, so there is nothing to review, except us and you .

 

[spnadmin]

Taran Tej Akash Saran Ji If you infuse Gods Name you should get lost in wonder at reading Ik ,that way you will never ever reach the next word, so there is nothing to review, except us and you .

So are you saying that the 6 Gurus whose bani lives in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were either rambling on needlessly, or pulling our leg with all that excess verbiage?

:angryyoungkaur:
Folks it is time again to get on point or serious surgery is scheduled for this thread. I have been amazed, in some cases not happily amazed, at what I am reading. Thank you.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Taranjeet Singh ji comment on an item that I did not note when I first replied to your post.

Let me clarify with an example. With due regards to Ambarsaria ji, I am not at all in agreement the way Sukhmani sahib is being done here.To me it seems as if I am misled. I made my point twice.

Taranjeet Singh ji it bothers me that I am not understanding of what you are saying. Please help me and explain how I may be misleading you. You should know I have no agenda but do have style of my own and understanding so reflecting. If I can improve I so would. I do muy best to be true given the sources and my own intellect but it means nothing if the end result is as you stated.

Please also clarify what point you made twice that I did not address and you then contested!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

So are you saying that the 6 Gurus whose bani lives in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were either rambling on needlessly, or pulling our leg with all that excess verbiage?

Spnadmin Ji

I noticed I started getting mentally stuck in or at Ik ,as I was trying to find my Jap.It is a personal matter and I shared it just incase anyone could relate to it.Our first Guru started with Ik,from the moment he spoke Ik, he knew it could not be explained even with oceans of ink and no matter how many pages Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji contains it is still the brief introduction of Ik.For those without intuition put it this way, every Shabad starts with Ik and once you have read them all of them where does it take you, is it not back to Ik.

 

[Harry Haller]

So are you saying that the 6 Gurus whose bani lives in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were either rambling on needlessly, or pulling our leg with all that excess verbiage?

:angryyoungkaur:
Folks it is time again to get on point or serious surgery is scheduled for this thread. I have been amazed, in some cases not happily amazed, at what I am reading. Thank you.

See what happens when your not around adminji, I would like to say that Spji and myself have been on our best behavour japposatnamwaheguru: lol

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Ik Onkar

Ik Onkār, a Sikh symbol ( ੴ)
Ik Onkar ( ੴ, ਇੱਕ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ; Ikk Ōankār is a central to sikh tenets and philosophy. It is a symbol of unity of God in sikhism and is found on all religious scriptures and places like Gurudwaras. Derived from Punjabi, Ik Onkār is the first phrase in Mool Mantra.. referring to the existence of "one constant " taken to mean "one God". It is consequently a part of Jap Ji sahib, the Sikh morning prayer, It is a combination of two characters, the numeral, Ikk (one) and the first letter of the word Onkar (Constant taken to mean God) - which also happens to be the first letter of Gurmukhi script.

In Mul Mantra

It was also the opening phrase of Mool Mantra, present as opening phrase in Guru Granth sahib, and the first composition Of Guru Nanak.

Simplified transliteration: ikk ōnkār satināmu karatā puraku nirapǎ'u niraver akāl mūrat ajūnī sepàng gurprasād

One Universal Creator, the Name is Truth, Creative Being (personified), Without fear, Without hatred, timeless Image, beyond birth and Self-existent by the Guru's Grace.

Read More…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ik_Onkar [Note text of this is edited to remove hyperlinks..]

Hi spnadmin /Harry ji and Dear spji ..I shall also try to be a good boy and thanks for bringing the thread on Track.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veera if I may call you that,how can we review the reviewer,our firstGuru knew what he was going to say before he spoke the first word,he did not improvise it one word at a time,so from the first if we need some intuition of where we are going with it or else we are just reading pages of a book.

Harry I never behave ,you speak for yourself lol

 

[Ambarsaria]

Spnadmin Ji

I noticed I started getting mentally stuck in or at Ik ,as I was trying to find my Jap.It is a personal matter and I shared it just incase anyone could relate to it.Our first Guru started with Ik,from the moment he spoke Ik, he knew it could not be explained even with oceans of ink and no matter how many pages Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji contains it is still the brief introduction of Ik.For those without intuition put it this way, every Shabad starts with Ik and once you have read them all of them where does it take you, is it not back to Ik.

Veer sp ji can you help me I am stuck just looking at the Alphabet above specially the letter A which can mean Ik/One. Once I read anything in English I always come back to the Alphabet, do you. cheerleader
mundahug

 

[Harry Haller]

Ambarsariaji,

Very good point!

Spji, look at this way, and it was Ambarsariaji's post that pointed me, you are correct, the essence is indeed Ek, the rest of the SGGS teaches you how to tune into it.................

 

[Ambarsaria]

Ambarsariaji,

Very good point!

Spji, look at this way, and it was Ambarsariaji's post that pointed me, you are correct, the essence is indeed Ek, the rest of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches you how to tune into it.................

Corollary is the following,

"Say we know the Alphabet, does it imply we understand everything written using that Alphabet. I sure would love to have so little to do having learned the Alphabet at 7 years old. It seems rest of life is just wasted in terms of learning anything written in English :blushh: yellingmunda if Alphabet was all I needed to know"

I do agree with sp ji on one point. Namely it is impossible to say whether reading, writing is the only way to learn of the creator. I personally would find such preposterous to dictate so! We know how we do things and how we see results. It is almost impossible to generalize how everyone does so!

Sharing one's understanding, limited as it may, does need some kind of communication and perhaps the easiest is talking, listening, writing, reading for ones with availability of such faculties.

mundahug

 

[Harry Haller]

Spji,

Just to add something to the cauldron, I know you are a big fan of mediation, who bother? lol

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

, I know you are a big fan of mediation, who bother?

Veer Ji I'm a fan of it because before our Guru spoke he did samaadhi ,I don't meditate mine is a semi stupor of sorts,I try to bring on mind death actually, but I would not recommend it for all,most our each Shabad are self contained treasure,our Guru's word is not compiled in a step by step format or 101 things to do format it is in a heart format only so it could have been longer than 1429 pages or less that is the compilation of truth the size was circumstantial, what is essential is to imbibe the truth of it ,as that is the purpose of it.

Vada Veer Ji I did not really mean it like that,what I meant was I try to do full mantar but seem to stop there for some reason.It can't be like the alphabet as it is numerical lolbut anyway with such a short jap I never mess it up.