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Spiritual discovery through Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by spnadmin, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Sachchasoda made a moving statement in another thread.

    http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/15187-discussion-on-naamdhari-sikhs-5.html

    It then dawned on me that a discussion of Sikhi and the Guru, and guru’s with a small “g” might be of interest to those of us who accept Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib as our eternal guru. Especially for newcomers to the forum.

    Soul Jyot has already shared this perspective on two other web sites. The essay is a good starting point for discussion.

    http://www.{url not allowed}/sikhne...460256B2D0E40AB4872572960055F230!OpenDocument

    "The word Guru is so popular in India that in order to understand the fundamental concept of 'guru' in Sikhism, one must first completely drive out of one's mind the prevalent popular notion of a guru. The popular term 'guru' often used for a Brahman, a yogic teacher or a guide or even a school teacher, has made the Guruship so cheap that a scholar describes these gurus as 'wicks which smell foul after the lamps are extinguished.'

    The term 'Guru' in Sikhism is not used for a teacher or a guide or an expert or even a human body. The word Guru is composed of two terms-

    GU- means darkness and
    RU- means Light.

    In Sikhism the word 'Guru' is, thus, defined as the Light that dispels all darkness, and that is called JOT (Divine Light). Guru Nanak was, therefore, the EMBODIMENT of Divine Light:

    'Gur Nanak Dev Govind roop.'
    (Basant Mohalla 5, p-1192, Guru Granth Sahib)
    'Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.' (Translation of the above)

    The Guru in Sikhism is a perfect Prophet or Messenger of God in whom the Light of God shines fully, visibly and completely. Guru is in union with Divine. Thus he ushers the devotees, the seekers of Truth into a spiritual birth. Through him the Glory of the Lord is transmitted to humanity. On account of his Divine prerogatives, the Guru, though human in form, is Divine in Spirit.

    Literally Guru Nanak's body was a platform from which God Himself spoke and delivered His message- Gurbani (Divine Word). God manifested Himself through Guru Nanak:

    'Gur meh aap samoai sabad vartaya.'
    (Var Malar ki Mohalla 1, p-1279)
    'In the true Guru (Nanak) He installed His Own Spirit Through him, God speaketh Himself.' (Translation of the above)

    In another place in Gurbani it is said

    'Gur meh aap rakhaya kartare.'
    (Maru Mohalla 1(15), p-1024)
    'In the body of Guru (Nanak) God revealeth Himself.' (Translation of the above)

    God is in the Guru and Guru is in God. Though God is everywhere and in everybody but His traits are illuminated through the Guru. The Jot (Divine Light) that enshrined Guru Nanak's body and the Primal Jot of God are, therefore, one and the same:

    'Gur Nanak Nanak har soai.'
    (Gaund Mohalla 5, p-865)
    'O Nanak, Jot of Nanak and God are one.' (Translation of the above)

    Again the Janamsakhis (biographies) reveal that God spoke to Guru Nanak and said:

    'Mei aad parmeshar aur tu gur parmeshar.'
    'I am the Primal God and thou art Guru God.' (Translation of the above)

    Guru Nanak never claimed that only his disciples or devotees could get salvation or go to heaven. Since he was the embodiment of Divine Light, and as the Divine Light does not belong to any particular sect or religion, so he stood guarantee for the entire humanity, and said, "Whosoever meditates upon One God, the Formless, will get salvation."

    'Jo jo japai so hoi punit Bhagat bhai lavai man hit.'
    (Gauri sukhmani Mohalla 5, p-290)
    'He shall become pure whosoever repeateth His Name With devotion, affection and heartfelt love.' (Translation of the above)

    When Guru Nanak conferred Guruship on Bhai Lehna (later called Guru Angad), the JOT was passed on and Guru Angad too became the embodiment of Divine Light. In the same way all the nine Gurus were the embodiments of Gur Nanak Jot. The tenth Master, Guru Gobind Singh then conferred the Guruship on Guru Granth Sahib (Holy Scripture), which too became the embodiment of Divine Light. Gur Nanak JOT is, therefore, enshrined and preserved in Guru Granth Sahib (it is no longer the Adi Granth, but only the Guru Granth), and it is the Living Guru for ever. For the Sikhs, the Guru Granth is the manifestation of the Guru's Spirit and through it, Guru Nanak lives on in the Sikh Faith.

    Sikhism endeavors to uplift the human soul from the shackles of Maya (materialism). It aims at a virtuous life which leads to the ultimate realization of a state of Eternal Bliss. The objective of Guru Nanak's Guruship was to give instructions in the True Name, to save humanity from immersing in the ocean of distress and misery arising out of worldly life, and to blend the human souls with their Creator, thus, emancipating them from the cycle of transmigration breaking all barriers and bonds of sufferings. This is the essential character of Sikh faith.

    The law of Karma or fatalism is repugnant to Sikh Religion as it does not reconcile with the merciful trait of the Almighty Lord. There is no such thing in Sikhism as eternal damnation or an everlasting pit of fire created by the revengeful God. Guru's grace erases the blot of thousands of evil deeds of the past and the present. It is also the savior of the future. Meditation on Nam burns countless sins. Singing the glory of the Lord through the Divine Word, can redeem a repentant sinner and, thus, doctrine of Karma ceases to operate. Such is the splendor of Guru Nanak's doctrine of God's Grace and Compassion."


    How do we receive and accept spiritual guidance from the Guru? How is this guidance different from the guidance of gurus?<br /><br />
    ----------------------------------------<br />

    ----------------------------------------<br />
     
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  3. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected aad0002 Ji,


    GURU IS THE EMBODIMENT OF DIVINE LIGHT.

    We are supposed to contemplate on Guru's Word and then live the Truth it is telling us. Guru guides us in every spectrum of life.

    Guru's presence is not limited just to a body, does not mater Guru is in Human life or not.

    We write with small g or big G-

    this is a sign of respect. God is written with big G, same as we sikhs write Guru with big G.

    because for us Guru is God and God is Guru...

    lots of people don't do this, so it is their choice.

    please correct me if i misunderstood your statement.

    i been thinking for a few days- what is she talking about??:)

    forgive me please
     
  4. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Surinder ji, Would you agree that this is the message of The Guru in Human Form?

    If you can demoralize a group of otherwise intelligent people and then convince them that you have the key to Divine Wisdom, then you can be a guru. But you have to be very good at working hidden messages into your story. Your messages must convince us that we are spiritual invalids, beyond hope. Consider this post on another thread

    Re: Gurbani Being Misinterpreted By Sahil Ji

    “These Are The Illusions Delusions And Dubidha Due To Andh Agyan People Are Living In - Sahil Ji Your Divine Wisdom Is Correct - The Person With Complete Self Realization Is Just Beyond Description - Such A Person Goes Beyond Trihu Gun Of Maya And Can't Be Understood By The Common Beings, It Is The Divine Truth, Bani Is The Mahima Of Akal Purakh, His Gyan Saroop. Mahima Of Naam, Mahima Of Sants And Bhagats And Braham Gyanis, Bani Has Come From Sach Khand And Can Only Be Understood By Reaching That Level, It Is Beyond The Comprehension Of Common Human Beings - It Is Like A Fourth Grader Trying To Solve The Rocket Science Problem, So Please Keep Up Your Bandgi And Keep On Serving And Delivering The Eternal Truth, Everything Else Is Kood - The Eternal Truth Will Always Prevail.”

    Dassan Dass

    Back to the guru problem.

    “There are illusions and delusions everywhere.” This is a good start because immediately you are put on notice that anything you believe, trust, or know is probably false. What is the hidden message? You cannot trust yourself to know truth from lie, including the most dangerous lie of all—you lie to yourself and don’t even know it.

    People cannot even be trusted on their own to realize that they are trapped in Maya. Which people are trapped in Maya? Well, some people are: some, a few, many, who knows? It doesn’t matter how many. Just some people. You know what I mean? The hidden message: There are a lot of mixed-up people out there, and you might be one of them.

    But there are other people, again we cannot say how many there are or where they are all to be found, who are not deluded. They are the grand masters; they know Divine Wisdom; they hold the key to enlightenment; they are beyond Maya. The hidden message: Divine Wisdom is given to some, we don’t know how many. Those who have it are a special breed. Even in the realm of Satgur there is a caste system. Some of us have it and some of us don’t.

    The special ones are so enlightened that the average person can’t even understand how enlightened they are. If we offend them by ignoring them or insulting them, that just proves that we are deluded, and in need of correction. The hidden message: It is useless to question or challenge the special ones because you will never understand anyway. So don’t even bother. They are immune to criticism.

    Not only can the special ones tune in to the wisdom of Satgur, but they also have connections with saints, wise men, and so forth. The hidden message: They are so finely developed that they have access to an endless supply of Divine Wisdom. And you don’t, because you are in a delusional state or too immature to understand.

    If you, a common human being, want to reach their level, then you must understand your limitations. You are more like a child trying to solve a difficult engineering problem (rocket science). The hidden message: Knowledge of Satgur is similar to the science of engineering. The special ones have solved the engineering problem. You cannot reach their level without their help. You are not that smart.

    Simple and quick logical conclusion: You must reach out to the masters whose minds are on a higher level in order to overcome your stupidity. That is the only way to learn what the special ones can teach you.

    What does the message of the spiritual masters boil down to? You are probably a victim of self-delusion. You cannot help it. Why? Delusion is all around you, and most of the people around you are also deluded. As a result, you have no way out of the trap of Maya. You cannot escape. The average person cannot help you. To make matters worse you have the mind of a child. You cannot be expected to understand the Truth. There are however certain individuals who are operating on another plane. They have resources. They speak to Satgur, gianis, sants, brahms. Because we cannot say exactly how many of these spiritual masters there really are, you will never know when you just might happen to bump into one. But when you do…Finish this sentence and you have the beginning of a great website that will attract many followers.

    How different from the message of Nanaak! Instead of liberation you are offered slavery.

    Respectfully
     
    #3 spnadmin, Apr 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2007
  5. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected aad0002 ji,

    i consider it a FAKE GURU's MESSAGE.

    A True Guru doesn't have to advertise the Guruship as it shines by itself. A true Guru is ONE WITH DIVINE LIGHT, YES-DIVINE LIGHT, NO DIFFERENT THAN THAT.

    DOES ONE NEED TO ADVERTISE THE DIVINE LIGHT- NO NO NO NO, NEVER, OR IS THERE EVEN A CHANCE- we can???????

    ONE WORD FROM THE 'TRUE GURU' TELLS THE WHOLE STORY......

    i humbly consider this message by our brother/sister 'dassan dass' ji, a clear representation of a multi faced personality.

    on one side he/she is saying- Trigun to pare
    on the other side he/she is supporting a person fully drenched with the rajo guna(every one of respected Sahil Ji's posts is a presentation of rajo gun).

    he/she is painting a portrait of himself/herself as a Puran BrahmGyaani-and this puran brahmgyaani is supporting as i suppose his/her own chela by calling him a Self Realized person. AND this supposedly self realized fellow considered by this self advertiser brahmgyaani ji, has shown us multiple times that he/she doesn't know Gurmukhi at all but trying to teach us Gurbani using many different translations from here and there, that too totally different from even the translations he himself was offering(so basically changing the Meaning of the words from GURMUKHI AND ENGLISH BOTH Languages-twisting everything around). when i humbly presented him a few lines from Siri Japji Sahib ji, he was lost, he could not read-has this ever happened to a SELF REALIZED SOUL???

    WHERE IN THE WORLD REALIZED SOULS DON'T KNOW A HUMAN LANGUAGE- it is a well known fact that a realized soul can talk to anybody and everybody in any language(Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji was able to travel to far far places and communicated with people in their language). leave alone language- A SELF REALIZED PERSON DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO THIS EXTENT TO SEND THE TRUE MESSAGE ACROSS. IT JUST HAPPENS(we can realize that when we read Gurbani-how that penetrates into our mind). AND RESPECTED SAHIL JI, poor guy been trying this for months, he reminds me of the vendors in Indain Markets- 'oh bhenji look at my merchandise, best quality, best price, all the other vendors on this street are here to loot you, i am the only good one around......' and they keep on repeating it.

    They have Made this whole SPIRITUAL QUEST a game of 'name and fame' and then on top of that they talk about trigun te pare- very funny. They them selves not purified yet, are calling others to get purified- horrible.

    i humbly ask for everybody's forgiveness.

    respected dassan dass ji is telling his saathi Respected Sahil ji to keep serving and delivering the(his own percieved one) Divine Truth which is that True Gursikhs should stop believing that 'Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is their eternal Guru'. is this considered deliverance of the eternal truth?????
    AND this message is in the same paragraph in which our respected sister/brother 'dassan daas' ji is delivering the message that Gurbani is DIVINE TRUTH.
    SO RESPECTED 'dassan dass' Ji IS SAYING- GURBANI IS DIVINE TRUTH, BUT IT CANNOT BE CONSIDERED DIVINE TRUTH BECAUSE RESPECTED SAHIL JI SAYS SO. Wow!!!!

    no wonder he/she says- it is beyond the comprehension of common human beings. Balle Balle...

    i think they are thinking that they are the 'Masters of Life' talking to the todlers and kindergarden goers 'small kids who have no clue what ALL is about and will believe what ever these Masters will say'.....

    forgive me please
     
    #4 simpy, Apr 26, 2007
    Last edited: May 15, 2007
  6. SSMDCX

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    More Illusions, Delusions And Dubidha - God Bless You With Sat Budhi.

    Gurbani Is No Human Language - It Is The Language Of Sach Khand - A Fourth Grader Trying To Solve A Rocket Science Problem. What Is A Fake Guru - A Guru Is A Guru - There Is Nothing Known Like A Fake Guru - What Kind Of Durmat And Sansarik Mat Is Being Propagated By These Learned People - What A Misleading Misfortune - God Bless Them With Sat Budhi.
     
    #5 SSMDCX, Apr 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2007
  7. simpy

    simpy
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    Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Amar Das Ji De Bachan




    <> siqgur pRswid ]
    duibDw mnmuK roig ivAwpy iqRsnw jlih AiDkweI ]
    mir mir jMmih Taur n pwvih ibrQw jnmu gvweI ]1]
    myry pRIqm kir ikrpw dyhu buJweI ]
    haumY rogI jgqu aupwieAw ibnu sbdY rogu n jweI ]1] rhwau ]
    isMimRiq swsqR pVih muin kyqy ibnu sbdY suriq n pweI ]
    qRY gux sBy roig ivAwpy mmqw suriq gvweI ]2]
    ieik Awpy kwiF ley pRiB Awpy gur syvw pRiB lwey ]
    hir kw nwmu inDwno pwieAw suKu visAw min Awie ]3]
    cauQI pdvI gurmuiK vrqih iqn inj Gir vwsw pwieAw ]
    pUrY siqguir ikrpw kInI ivchu Awpu gvwieAw ]4]
    eyksu kI isir kwr eyk ijin bRhmw ibsnu rudRü aupwieAw ]
    nwnk inhclu swcw eyko nw Ehu mrY n jwieAw ]5]


    bRhmw mUlu vyd AiBAwsw ]
    iqs qy aupjy dyv moh ipAwsw ]
    qRY gux Brmy nwhI inj Gir vwsw ]1]
    hm hir rwKy siqgurU imlwieAw ]
    Anidnu Bgiq hir nwmu idRVwieAw ]1] rhwau ]
    qRY gux bwxI bRhm jMjwlw ]
    piV vwdu vKwxih isir mwry jmkwlw ]
    qqu n cInih bMnih pMf prwlw ]2]
    mnmuK AigAwin kumwrig pwey ]
    hir nwmu ibswirAw bhu krm idRVwey ]
    Bvjil fUby dUjY Bwey ]3]
    mwieAw kw muhqwju pMifqu khwvY ]
    ibiKAw rwqw bhuqu duKu pwvY ]
    jm kw gil jyvVw inq kwlu sMqwvY ]4]
    gurmuiK jmkwlu nyiV n AwvY ]
    haumY dUjw sbid jlwvY ]
    nwmy rwqy hir gux gwvY ]5]
    mwieAw dwsI Bgqw kI kwr kmwvY ]
    crxI lwgY qw mhlu pwvY ]
    sd hI inrmlu shij smwvY ]6]
    hir kQw suxih sy DnvMq idsih jug mwhI ]
    iqn kau siB invih Anidnu pUj krwhI ]
    shjy gux rvih swcy mn mwhI ]7]
    pUrY siqguir sbdu suxwieAw ]
    qRY gux myty cauQY icqu lwieAw ]
    nwnk haumY mwir bRhm imlwieAw ]8]
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Respected sangat,

    In reference to the statement by SSMDCX: that Gurbani is No Human Language. If this true, then we have a problem. Damdani Taaksal, Amritbani Radio, even the Punjab, are all in trouble. SSMDCX is sayinig that they are not speaking a human language.

    That is the way it works. First you are in trouble, and then a GURU steps foward to help you.
     
  9. simpy

    simpy
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    ;) he he

    :) MAY BE WE NEED TO LOOK FOR THESE NON HUMAN LANGUAGE SCHOOLS, do you have one in your area :)

    he he ;)


    it seems like Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev JI's and Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Angad Dev Ji's all the efforts to teach us Gurmukhi lipi and all that was not needed, if we go by respected SSMDCX's statement.

    forgive me please
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

    Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Sache Paatshah passed on the GURUSHIP to Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So as the chela/Sikh/GurSikh/Gurmukh.... one has to COMMUNICATE with Guru Ji DIRECTLY. No intermediaries are needed. If one cannot read and understand Guru Ji-it means this person is not a True Gursikh. If we need intermediaries to communicate with our Guru Ji, it shows that we have NO LOVE for our Guru Ji. and WITHOUT LOVE AND DEVOTION -THERE IS NO BANDGI/BHAGTI/SEVA.

    Every body is a SOUL. An inseparable part of Waheguru. Divine Light is always there within. And once the communication with Guru Ji is honest and direct- we are reading/listening and then contemplating and finally following the Truth told by Guru Ji, there is no way any body can have any problems at all.
    Gurbani is DIVINE TRUTH/DIVINE LIGHT and it teaches us how to get in touch with our reality-DIVINE TRUTH/DIVINE LIGHT.

    one more thing- History has proved over and over again that there are FAKE GURUS and Even Dhan Dhan Guru Ji has confirmed their existence and made us aware of them-

    gurU ijnw kw AMDulw cyly nwhI Twau ]

    haumYN AMdr sBko fuby gurU sxyN bhu cyly]

    forgive me please
     
  11. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    Interesting conversation !!!!
     
  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    :star:Two Bhenji's just bouncing off each other's thoughts, veer ji.
     

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