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Sorry - another "Baba" question

Discussion in 'Sikh Youth' started by MKAUR1981, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    WJKK WJKF

    I am sorry, but I am in a bit of a dilemna here.

    Basically, I am due to go India later this year and although this is great news there is a place where I am to pray which I feel contradicts with my belief as a Sikh.

    It seems like most villages in India have a samadhi/religious place which is sacred to them. This is the case in my in-laws village. The last 2 times I have been to India, before going to our house we have to pray there. I have been told by my mother-in-law that it is the samadhi of my husbands ancestors. Although the Guru Granth Sahib is not kept there, Akhand Path's are done and the Guru Granth Sahib is brought from the local Gurdwara. However, any other day it means bowing towards where the mortal remains are buried and asking for blessing.

    How do I avoid this without (a) contradicting my faith in the Guru Granth Sahib (b) offending my mother-in-law?



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  3. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected MKaur Ji,


    Be strong, and tell the truth(humbly), how you feel and understand in the light of Gurbani. And if you believe with true heart, you will see the positive effect, it may take some time and multiple humble efforts, but it will happen.

    Always keep in mind one thing-
    Bgqw qY sYswrIAw joVu kdy n AwieAw ]


    there is always difference of opinion between believers and non believers. this is the truth a believer has to live with, this is what walking over the sharp edge is, maintaining the balance while living in this materialistic world.



     
  4. MKAUR1981

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    WJKK WJKF

    Surinder Panji
    Apologies, but could I have the English translations please.

    I will have a word with my mother-in-law about this before we go. It's just that in the past I was not religious, so I just went a long with what she told me for a quiet life. However, now I question my mother-in-law when she tells me things, that I know contradict Sri Guru Granth Sahib. (For example, last month she said that every Sunday I should pour water towards the sun and throw black lentils in mustard oil, wrapped in black cloth in water!!! This is supposed to get rid of what she calls "grahe").

    My mother-in-law is an Amritdhari, but still has very superstitious beliefs. However, at times when explaining to her that as a Sikh we should not believe in this, I sometimes I back down in the fear of offending her.
     
  5. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected MKaur Ji,


    this means-
    Between the Lord's devotees(bhagats) and the people of the world(sansari), there can never be any true alliance.


    Both lead a totally different philosophy of life.


    bhagat is living in this maya(material) and keeping himself/herself totally detached from it. No Iness is present in this person. Is filled with unconditional love for all. Is seeing/feeling/hearing God within and without. and possess limitless other divine qualities......

    sansari is always lost in i/me/mine, no faith in God at all, love is only need base or conditional, always complaining, indulged in others nindya, praising themselves and so on........
     
  6. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    MKAUR ji

    I thought I should perhaps ask you if you are still open for a responce to your question. It perhaps is too late for your trip but may be beneficial in the future. If so, then and only then I shall respond.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
     
  7. MKAUR1981

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    SatSri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

    I'm not due to travel until September this year, so I would appreciate any views on this.

    Regards
    Mkaur
     
  8. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    Astrology is a Science and not Superstition. Spiritualism and Astrology go hand in hand. Guru Nanak Dev ji was very well versed with the knowledge of Astrology. He was also the perfect Scientist. People (especially pandits) have taken far too much advantage of this science for their selfish needs.

    Take for an example:
    throw black lentils in mustard oil, wrapped in black cloth in water!!! This is supposed to get rid of what she calls "grahe"

    What is being said here should be done on a Saturday in the evening after sunset. This is performed for the negative effects of Sani Grahe. Performing this on Sunday will give you bad results. The equivalent of this that is less offensive is to buy black colour leather shoes for an elderly gentleman or to donate sarb loh utensil to a Holly place. These appropriations work, there is no doubt. Our Gurus were aware of this and they have very lovingly provided us with alternatives.

    The purpose of these remediations is to force people to perform charitable acts that one would not normally carry out. This is why Guru ji says “Wand ke Shako”. These are the equivalent charitable deeds we do as Sikhs without any tension. “Dasband” (10%) from your “Dassan noohan di Kamai”(Your honestly earned income) is again a remediation. Looking after elderly (other than your own family) “Sewa” is again a remediation. If we follow Sikhism properly we do not need to take instructions from anyone at all. The problem is that we are not told about these things in a practical sense. Appropriations as given to your mother are for those who do not live the life of a Sikh. I note you mother is also an Amritdhari so I will dwell on this from a Sikh Perspective.

    The following shabad is from SGGS.

    Awsw mhlw 5 ] sUK shj Awndu Gxw hir kIrqnu gwau ] grh invwry siqgurU dy Apxw nwau ]1] bilhwrI gur Awpxy sd sd bil jwau ] gurU ivthu hau vwirAw ijsu imil scu suAwau ]1] rhwau ] sgun Apsgun iqs kau lgih ijsu cIiq n AwvY ] iqsu jmu nyiV n AwveI jo hir pRiB BwvY ]2] puMn dwn jp qp jyqy sB aUpir nwmu ] hir hir rsnw jo jpY iqsu pUrn kwmu ]3] BY ibnsy BRm moh gey ko idsY n bIAw ] nwnk rwKy pwrbRhim iPir dUKu n QIAw ]4]18]120]

    Asa Mehla Panjva
    -Peace, celestial poise and absolute bliss are obtained, singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises.
    -Guru removes the evil influences (Grahas based on Astrological combinations) by Bestowing His Naam ||1||
    -Praise be to seed of Naam given to me, I am for ever indebted (in appreciation).
    -By meeting the guru my ego has gone, I have realised my real objective. ||1||Pause||
    -Good omens and bad omens befall only on those who do not remember the Lord (have faith in the Naam)
    -The Messenger of Death does not approach those who are pleasing to the Lord God. ||2|| (Those that have full faith and recite the Naam)
    -Virtues, donations, austerity (self-mortification) meditation and penance - above all of them is Naam.
    -Those who recite Har, Har (The Naam) with their tongue – their issues are resolved. His fears are removed, his doubts and worldly attachments go away; he then sees none other than God.
    -Nanak says, if the Supreme Lord preserves himself, then there is no pain or sorrow that can afflict any more. ||4||18||120||

    Recite this Shabad by Panjvi Paatshai 11 times every day (am) and ask your mother in-law to do the same. By reciting (NOT CHANTING) and with Gurus grace it will bring the message home to her that her Guru has given her the Antidote for all problems and it is her inadequacy that is the problem. Recite Gurus Shabad with compassion and you problems will be seen to by Guru ji.

    We suffer because the “Bank Balance” of our Naam reduces and we do not top it up so often. And more often we do it incorrectly. Our Charge is leaking because our faith has large holes in it. We need to fill these gaps to secceed.

    “I will have a word with my mother-in-law about this before we go.”

    Do you really think this will help. I very much doubt it. If she is failing to follow here Gurus teaching she will not listen to you either. To give here a reminder of her commitment to our Guru, I suggest you present her with the following Shabad from SGGS. (Anand Sahib)

    jy ko gur qy vymuKu hovY ibnu siqgur mukiq n pwvY ]
    jay ko gur tay vaimukh hovai bin satgur mukat na paavai.
    One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.
    pwvY mukiq n hor QY koeI puChu ibbykIAw jwey ]
    paavai mukat na hor thai ko-ee puchhahu bibaykee-aa jaa-ay.
    He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.
    Anyk jUnI Brim AwvY ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]
    anayk joonee bharam aavai vin satgur mukat na paa-ay.
    He shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.
    iPir mukiq pwey lwig crxI siqgurU sbdu suxwey ]
    fir mukat paa-ay laag charnee satguroo sabad sunaa-ay.
    But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, reciting the Word of the Shabad.
    khY nwnku vIcwir dyKhu ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ]22]
    kahai naanak veechaar daykhhu vin satgur mukat na paa-ay. ||22||
    Says Nanak, contemplate this and see, that without the True Guru, there is no liberation. ||22||

    I hope the above gives you more food for thought than just confronting you Mother-in-Law without any ammunition.

    Guru jis blessings are with you.

    Kaur ji, do not ever feel that your bowing to someone will be detrimental to your faith. What is important is “Where does your heart lie” Sikhism is not and external experience. It is like the feeling you have when you give birth to a child. You know there is something happening inside you, the feeling is there all the time. Yet you carry out all the chores of day. That feeling is not affected. So is Sikhism. Feel it the same way. There is God omnipresent inside you just like everyone else. No body can touch in there. No one can temper with a Sikh. So be strong. If you have to bow – no problem become objective. Your feelings should not there – it is only a body doing the act(mechanical act) – by the body that you will leave behind. What is important is not to hurt others feelings. They have the same God presence in them. It is this hurt that will become a “Karam” and haunt you again.

    Learn to live Objectively. Life will go on but you are not liable for the consequences. Hence no bad Karmas. I am sure you will understand this. If not then feel free to question.

    Samadhi/ Sacred Religious places: What are these places? We will talk about them another time.

    May our Gurus Bless you with even more Wisdom.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
     
  9. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    Satsri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

    I must admit personally I do not believe in grahe and I could never understand why throwing lentils would get rid of it. However doing a charitable act I think is better, what I call daan. I'd rather get a bag of lentils and offer it at the Gurdwara.

    My mother-in-law is an Amritdhari but due to her own personal circumstances has faiths in these things (basically when her son was in between life-death).

    I only said I would have a word with her before we go, so that we don't have this discussion out there in front of my in-laws.



    I will read the Shabd to her, but I don't think she will listen to me. My mother-in-law is in her 70's. I personally think it would be appreciated coming from another Amritdhari, not a Manmukh like me. Will let you know the outcome....

    My problem is that maybe I've taken the meaning of not bowing to anything else but the Guru Granth Sahib a bit too far. But I totally agree with what you are saying

    The way I see it is that as history has it we are his descendants and I am just taking ashrivaad. Thank you Hai Bhi Sach. It really does make sense what your saying.

    Maybe we should have a thread on samdhi/sacred/religious places?


    P.S Is this you being sarcastic again???:rolleyes:
     
  10. MKAUR1981

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    Satsri Akal Hai Bhi Sach

    For the Shabd by Panjvi Patshah, is it possible to have either with the Phonetic transliteration or in Punjabi?

    Kind regards


    Kind Regards.
     
  11. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    Sat Sri Akal MKaur ji

    NO, No Sarcasum for a Gursikh. It was a well intended blessing. We prey and ask this from Guru ji every day "Sikhan da Mann neeva, Matt Ucchi". We have too around with "Mann Uccha, Matt Neevi and yet call themselves Sikh". May Guru ji guide you on the Right Path. It is with Guru ji's blessing that we begin to understand the deeper sence of Gurbani.

    I do not have the right fonts so am not able to help you here but try this link.
    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Search&Param=punjabi

    Go for the Gurmukhi and search sUK shj Awndu Gxw hir kIrqnu gwau Page 400 - Click on punjabi translation. You will be able to show her online or read it out for her.



    No Bibba ji, Do not sell yourself short. You are one of our Guru jis' representatives on earth. Do a prayer to Guru Amar Das ji and seek his blessing. He will keep your "Maan" - "Nimaniaan de Maan" One of the twelve boons recieved from Guru Angad Dev ji on Guru ji's Initiation ceremony as our Third Guru.

    Guru ji Jaroor Bacshish Karenge
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Hai_Bhi_sach Ji,

    Just a thought-

    You are suggesting not to talk to a person who is performing something that an Amritdhari should not. THIS IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM-These folks think that now we are Amritdhari-we have the license to Salvation- so let us do whatever we like-wrong or right-Guru has already forgiven us/accepted us,whatever……Which is not true.

    Even Guru Sahiban’s own children, friends, family members had to go through the cleansing process of the Soul. Examples- Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Arjan Dev Ji and His Older Brother. Both were born to Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Ram Das Ji, Guru Arjan Dev Ji was able to cleans His soul but the other could not- he was always burning in jealousy. Then Baba Budda Ji, and so many more.


    Instead of staying silent and try to convert somebody’s mind through Sidhi(reading a shabad 11 times); Honest approach should be-have a talk. And Sidhis work only with those people who have no mind of their own, if the mother in law we are talking about, is really a hardheaded person, such things will not work at all. Otherwise all these Sidhs from all religions and faiths would have been able to change everybody’s mind on this Earth by now..

    What works in all cases is-put the truth on the table, and believe in God. Pray to God. Understand Gurbani and live the teachings.

    We should not use Gurbani as mantras to treat the problems.
    This is no different than reading Hanumaan Chalisa for a number of times……
    And this will not be any different from throwing the Lentils in water on a spicific day of the week......

    The Shabad you are suggesting is saying-LOUD AND CLEAR-

    Sing Kirtan of Lord’s Praises. Sacrifice yourself to your Guru, Keep Lord in Mind……

    ONE SHOULD DO NAAM SIMRAN AND FOLLOW GURU'S WORD -ALL PROBLEMS WILL BE SOLVED.

    REMEMBER GOD 24/7
    GOD TAKES CARE OF EVERYTHING, HE IS THE KARTAPURKH.







    Forgive me please.
     
  13. badmash

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    We sikhs have always been willing to accept an alteration to the path. It seems all like a big deal about nothing. If you do some ritual to make someone else happy, in the end, it is all towards the same spiritual or omnipotent power, so why is one ritual worse than another? We all have our own hangups and perceptions of what is a hangup, in the end, it really does not matter as the object of respect and devotion is inherently the same, with different customs and traditions playing in.
     
  14. lovely_silky

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    And look at us where we have brought our faith by accepting alterations. To make others happy we ready to easily fake-become 'mann hor mukh hor', and we are ready to lie-'koor de saathi', such a good progress. We can fake to do paaths, without any understaing of what we are reading. I am never able to understand bhai's when they do akhand paath-'rakh ke vaadi launde ne'.
     
  15. badmash

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    Yes but that is the essence of the diametrically opposed schisms in modern sikhism.

    We do paath and read gurbani, but most of us do not understand what is being said. We have a code of appearance and diet and behaviour, but more and more we do not follow it. We are a religion whose philosophy mandates equality and upright living, but we have always been separated by caste, sexist prejudice (a truly islamic legacy on our land) and economics, and now more than ever, immorality, drugs, alcholism. If you want my real take on it, it is because we do not know who we are. We are neither muslim nor hindu, albeit closer to hindus culturally in many ways closer to punjabi mussalmans with whom we have lived with for centuries. We fail to stress what makes us unique, and to me that is our punjabi roots, language and culture, not the esoteric philosophical logistics of a sacred text which repeats the praises of the one true lord who seemingly very few are able to comprehend in reality or contemplation. If sikhism is to succeed, it needs to be dumbed down for the masses. It needs an easily understood and identifiable core set of values. But again contradictions. It is a religion where 5 members may start their own gurudwara. Everyone feels free to interpret it, or be satisfied not caring what is written anyway. Gurudwara here is controlled by Juts, there by bhappas, and there by Ramgarhias. There we go again! Does not leave us in a very good place, but I guess we are no different than any of the other major religions of the world.
     
  16. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,
    We all are very good at diagnosing the problem.
    Now if everybody who has realized the problem, take some steps to cure it as well. This is what we need.......
    At this moment of time we are waking up, we must try to wake others and take measures on individual and collective levels.

    like-
    learn punjabi
    speak punjabi and encourage the younger generation to do the same
    teach punjabi
    contemplation of bani with the Sangat and in our mind.
    what we learn-LIVE IT
    show by example not just by talk-as they say: not just talk, walk the path
    if you have time and resources, teach others about gurbani and Guru Ji's teachings
    aap japo avaraa naam japaavoa
    instead of indulging in Nindya, recognize the social evils and superstitions; adopt an honest approach to deal with them
    Start from your own family and friends………….



    forgive me please
     
  17. MKAUR1981

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    Surinder Ji

    What you said is so true. We need to start from ourselves and our family. I remember a saying "pehle apne manje hetha charu pheroo".

    Lovely Silk Ji.

    I agree with you totally. We keep trying to make others happy. The times I have been to an Akhand Path or sukhmani Sahib Path followed by a party that consists of alcohol. Why do the Path in the first place?
     
  18. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    Surinder Kaur ji

    The lady in question is 70years of age. The only reason she has taken Amrit is because she has most probably been talked into it by friends and family and the induced fear that she should be a “Guru Wale” else “Kalgiaan Wala” is not going to come for her rescue. She has no understanding or respect for Sikhism. Else she would not be following pundits. Over the years she has become Amritdhari, it is clear that she has had no change in her mind set. Asking MKaur to confront her (even politely) will only yield negative results and induce further resentment. She will not stand for a 25 year old giving her advice.



    With due respect, that is Guru ji’ Kautak. I am incapable to comment on this.



    You magic wand of talk will not have any effect. This lady at the age she is needs a nudge. The idea behind the shabad and 11 times is to bring MKaur and her mother-in-Law closer. So there has to be something common between them. The lady is naturally very concerned about her family. This is why she has gone out her way to seek help. The shabad gives her an alternative within the bounds of Sikhism. By both of them reciting the shabads together she will herself as what it all meant. Once the communication opens between them then MKaur can show her the sikhi way to do things as in my previous Blog.




    I have said nothing that was not the truth. You “put the truth on the Table will result in MKaur on the floor and the table on top of her. I understand you concern we both want the same result in which there remains family unity and a right direction for the Mother-in-Law for her remaing time on this earth. We first need to develop an understanding ourselves before we preach others.




    If throwing lentils is the right astrological solution then it will work too. The first shabad in SGGS is itself a Mantra. This lady needs a booster. If one does not see results then one becomes disheartened. The first issue is to instil her confidence and show her the strength of Gurbani and what our Gurus have done for us. The rest then can follow as you have suggested.



    If life was that easy then we would not have been in this situation in the first place. We need to face reality. We could not change when our gurus were here we have little chance now.

    Then share your way of doing that with all of us.



    GOD TAKES CARE OF EVERYTHING, HE IS THE KARTAPURKH.

    I agree, but then why worry. Why all these discussions.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh:)
     
  19. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Hai_Bhi_Sach Ji,


    thanks endlessly,

    How many are the chances that Mata Ji will recite the shabad herself or along with Biba Mkaur Ji???
    0.1%

    There are more chances of a superstitious woman believing that Biba Ji is doing some guided ritual to trap her into something.

    Anyways- I still believe, all the problems start with THE LACK OF COMMUNICATION.

    A LOVING AND HUMBLE COMMUNICATIONAL APROACH always works. I do not suggest to confront someone in any rude manner. It is a matter of sending the message across the other party about how you feel about a certain thing.

    Now when Mata Ji will know that my daughter-in-law is doing all this just to see those sparks of smile on my face even when she does not believe in all this, will bring them closer, NO DOUBDTS. All this may even change her understanding and the way of life, and chances are she may actually start reading Bani and live the Truth.

    Love, when it is unconditional, does wonders.


    forgive me please
     
  20. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Hai_Bhi_Sach Ji,


    thanks endlessly again.

    So you think that Gurus are gone. NO NO NO...
    Guru Ji is HERE AND NOW. Open your eyes.

    DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI





    All of the Gurbani is the answer to what you are exploring- LIVE THAT TRUTH, TRUTHFULLY.



    mnUAw dh ids Dwvdw Ehu kYsy hir gux gwvY ]
    ieMdRI ivAwip rhI AiDkweI kwmu k®oDu inq sMqwvY ]1]
    vwhu vwhu shjy gux rvIjY ]
    rwm nwmu iesu jug mih dulBu hY gurmiq hir rsu pIjY ]1] rhwau ]
    sbdu cIin mnu inrmlu hovY qw hir ky gux gwvY ]
    gurmqI AwpY Awpu pCwxY qw inj Gir vwsw pwvY ]2]
    ey mn myry sdw rMig rwqy sdw hir ky gux gwau ]
    hir inrmlu sdw suKdwqw min icMidAw Plu pwau ]3]
    hm nIc sy aUqm Bey hir kI srxweI ]
    pwQru fubdw kwiF lIAw swcI vifAweI ]4]
    ibKu sy AMimRq Bey gurmiq buiD pweI ]
    Akhu prml Bey AMqir vwsnw vsweI ]5]
    mwxs jnmu dulµBu hY jg mih KitAw Awie ]
    pUrY Bwig siqguru imlY hir nwmu iDAwie ]6]
    mnmuK BUly ibKu lgy Aihlw jnmu gvwieAw ]
    hir kw nwmu sdw suK swgru swcw sbdu n BwieAw ]7]
    muKhu hir hir sBu ko krY ivrlY ihrdY vswieAw ]
    nwnk ijn kY ihrdY visAw moK mukiq iqn@ pwieAw ]8]2]


    forgive me please
     

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