Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Soche Shoch

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar Project' started by ravneet_sb, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    265
    Sat Sri Akaal,

    "THOUGHT" are creation of formed "MIND" and if no formed mind than "Natural" thoughts appear

    "Image" and "Voice" inputs received during life span and while reproduction are stored by us in Memory

    What "Image" and "Voice" should be stored

    To Clean "Thought" process

    By thinking again and again no one clean the "HARD MIND"

    One has to understand the cleaning process

    To Clean good and bad "Visual" and "VOCAL" stores of "Memory"

    "Thoughts" are formed within mind

    as a result of " Formed Mind" or "Manmat"

    or if "GURUBANI" thoughts are stores as "VOCAL" / "VISUAL" both than as a "GURMAT"

    Mind Works

    24x7 it works and doesn't have rest

    How to attain rest of "Mind" without "Death"

    Mind Machine is always "Thinking"

    For E.G.

    Old took hair bath, question asked

    how this bath will clean thoughts inside mind

    Asked "How you have clean good/bad thoughts" like a bad bug or "Virus" in the "Hard Disk"

    Daily Bad Voices and Images are stored in our Memory Store which appears
    while we are "IDLE"

    The stored voices/images appears as a good and bad conversation idle gossip

    Giving a good and bad environment

    So how to keep "MIND" clean of "Formed" Thoughts

    "Guru's " Have given the way to keep thoughts clean

    "SOCHE" (THOUGHTs) "SHOCH" (CLEAN) Na Hovie

    Je "SOCHE" lakh vaar


    Chuppe Chup Na Hovai
    Je Lai Rahan Liv Taar

    Inner "Sounds" reappear though in outer "silence" space


    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
    Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh





    I
     
  2. ActsOfGod

    ActsOfGod
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    505
    I thought that this line was in regard to the concept of "Sucham". In Sanskrit, one of the meanings of "Soche" is "Sucham" (i.e. ritual cleansing). In modern Punjabi, "Soche" = thinking. Perhaps a mis-translation, albeit a common one.

    The "Sucham" translation actually makes more sense to me when considered with the rest of lines of this pauri, as these were all various practices in use by people to attempt attaining liberation.

    AoG
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,988
    AoG,

    Guru Fateh.

    I totally agree with you. Well explained.
     
  4. jitender kaur

    jitender kaur
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    I dont think soch is for sucham.To me -sochai soch na hoavai je sochi lakh var-if we think of the great power (God) even a million times .just thinking will not evolve our soul and elevate it where we will get a glimpse of God.For that we will have to meditate and live in hukam.
     
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    whereas mumbling will not only get us a glimpse of god, but we get a t shirt and matching pants!

    What does a glimpse of god actually mean? how will a glimpse of god help us? I already know god exists as Akal Purakh, and in that respect, I get more of a glimpse of Akal Purakh just living my life

    and thinking...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. jitender kaur

    jitender kaur
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yes, we all know God exists as Akaal Purakh, and when we get his glimpse in our day to day life,we learn to live in his hukam , we are enlightened,we have reached the truth
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    I know God exists as Akaal Purakh
    I glimpse Akaal Purakh in my day to day life
    I am not sure I have a choice to learn to live in 'his' Hukam, but that is another thread
    I am far from being enlightened
    The truth remains a distant light in the dark
     
  8. ActsOfGod

    ActsOfGod
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    505
    Jitender kaur ji,

    I thought it would be helpful to look at the first pauri as a whole, so I went back and re-read it:

    ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ
    ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ
    ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ
    ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਇਕ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ
    ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ
    ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

    My own limited understanding of each line:

    ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ
    This talks about the practice of ritual cleansing and indicates that it is futile.

    ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ
    This talks about the practice of silence and indicates that it is futile.

    ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ
    This talks about amassing worldly goods to appease hunger, and indicates that it is futile.

    ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਇਕ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ
    This talks about utilizing clever tricks and intelligence and indicates that it is futile.

    ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ
    This poses the question that, if all of the above are futile, then how can one achieve the truth, by what means can one break through the filth?

    ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
    This is the answer: go along (i.e. wilfully obey) with the Hukam of the Lord (i.e. don't fight against it or resist it), and with the teachings written down by Guru Nanak Sahib.

    I suppose the first line could mean the practice of thinking, but to me it doesn't seem that way when compared with the rest of the practices that are highlighted in the pauri. Would love to hear some scholarly opinions on this.

    AoG
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. ActsOfGod

    ActsOfGod
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    505
  10. Original

    Original
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    488
    AoG Ji

    "dhur ki bani i tin saglee chint ma'tie", Guru Maharaj Ji explains that this here Bani is from the source and what that source is, is captured in the mool mantar. The mool mantar is a preamble to the rest of SGGSJ and broadly speaking the clear message contained within the 1430 pages is that there is God, relationship can be found whilst fulfilling both social and personal obligations and that the true purpose and meaning of life is to liberate oneself from maya.

    Jap Ji Sahib is thus questions and answers which Baba Nanak set out in Poetic form to explain, guide and better the human condition. It was purely from a spiritual perspective amidst the mega faiths of Hinduism and Islam that prompted the need. So the pauri in question, socha soch was recited to rebutt what otherwise was considered holy in Hindu practice, that is, batihing for cleanliness of body and stillness of mind.

    Baba Nanak in the first 4 verses explains that the bathing, silencing, restricting and the intelligenica are to no avail. Then a question is thrown in, kiv sacharya hoi'ya kiv kura tuta pal [hey Nanak, how can one become pure and break this wall of illusion so that Akal Purakh is in view] ? Maharaj answers, hukum ra'jaiye chulna Nanak likaya nal [walk within the parameters of Eternal Law and you'll surpass].

    The message Nanak has for humankind is that, be good, do good and know good.

    Much obliged
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Parma

    Parma United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    262
    Today I saw something that I have to express. Islam does see with two eyes, too. A prospective I never realised before. Forgive me for my past outbursts but I could only go by what it educated me on previously I collated from what it inspired to me at that moment. Islam is learning to develop away from fanaticism I wish it well on that journey a good step towards mutual expressive thoughts and integration although the journey isn't over for it as I wish Islam the honour it deserves, progressive inspiration. Not aggressive inspiration. Aggression will only alienate it. God bless you are learning men of God too. Sat Siri Akal. Wake up if your souls and consciousness where misguided in sleep. Sensible rational thinking and common mutual respect. The freedom to express a clear mind.
     
    #11 Parma, Mar 13, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015

Share This Page