Simran And Sikhi (Karminder Singh Dhillon)

[chazSingh]

I would say that inserting words that are not present in shabads is a blasphemy, or more commonly known as Kachi bani, what is stopping me from inserting say the words 'lady gaga' into a shabad?



but neither waheguru nor lady gaga appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji according to Mr Dhillon



now then as you have replied in this thread, I am assuming you have read the first post, this clearly states that the word waheguru is absent from the entirety of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so if we are to understand that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the word of God, then God clearly did have an issue with it, otherwise he would have included it....



well quite, but it appears the word has neither his acceptance nor his validation



absolutely, my friend



once again, it is not his bani, anymore than lady gaga



he might turn around and ask what are you saying, and ask where did you get this word, because it clearly is not from him..........

God Bless you ji...

i KNOW god doesn't have an issue with it... that's all that matters...direct experience of what you put into practice...not a very judgemental view of an author lol

apparently i am reciting gurbani by counting, using beeds, and wanting external rewards... lol
doesn't matter what you say Harry Ji or what articles you put before me...you can't change my mind
it has already been enraptured....no turning back now...

God Bless Ji

 

[chazSingh]

SRI GURU GRANTH JI PAGE 1403


ਬੇਵਜੀਰ ਬਡੇ ਧੀਰ ਧਰਮ ਅੰਗ ਅਲਖ ਅਗਮ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਆਪਣੈ ਉਛਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
बेवजीर बडे धीर धरम अंग अलख अगम खेलु कीआ आपणै उछाहि जीउ ॥
Bevjīr bade ḏẖīr ḏẖaram ang alakẖ agam kẖel kī▫ā āpṇai ucẖẖāhi jī▫o.
You have no advisors, You are so very patient; You are the Upholder of the Dharma, unseen and unfathomable. You have staged the play of the Universe with joy and delight.
ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਕਥੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ਤੀਨਿ ਲੋਕ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ਸੁਤਹ ਸਿਧ ਰੂਪੁ ਧਰਿਓ ਸਾਹਨ ਕੈ ਸਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
अकथ कथा कथी न जाइ तीनि लोक रहिआ समाइ सुतह सिध रूपु धरिओ साहन कै साहि जीउ ॥
Akath kathā kathī na jā▫e ṯīn lok rahi▫ā samā▫e suṯah siḏẖ rūp ḏẖari▫o sāhan kai sāhi jī▫o.
No one can speak Your Unspoken Speech. You are pervading the three worlds. You assume the form of spiritual perfection, O King of kings.
ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥
सति साचु स्री निवासु आदि पुरखु सदा तुही वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहिगुरू वाहि जीउ ॥३॥८॥
Saṯ sācẖ sarī nivās āḏ purakẖ saḏā ṯuhī vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhigurū vāhi jī▫o. ||3||8||
You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||3||8||
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਬਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
सतिगुरू सतिगुरू सतिगुरु गुबिंद जीउ ॥
Saṯgurū saṯgurū saṯgur gubinḏ jī▫o.
The True Guru, the True Guru, the True Guru is the Lord of the Universe Himself.
ਬਲਿਹਿ ਛਲਨ ਸਬਲ ਮਲਨ ਭਗ੍ਤਿ ਫਲਨ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੁਅਰ ਨਿਹਕਲੰਕ ਬਜੀ ਡੰਕ ਚੜ੍ਹੂ ਦਲ ਰਵਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
बलिहि छलन सबल मलन भग्ति फलन कान्ह कुअर निहकलंक बजी डंक चड़्हू दल रविंद जीउ ॥
Balihi cẖẖalan sabal malan bẖagaṯ falan kānĥ ku▫ar nihklank bajī dank cẖaṛhū ḏal ravinḏ jī▫o.
Enticer of Baliraja, who smothers the mighty, and fulfills the devotees; the Prince Krishna, and Kalki; the thunder of His army and the beat of His drum echoes across the Universe.
ਰਾਮ ਰਵਣ ਦੁਰਤ ਦਵਣ ਸਕਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੁਸਲ ਕਰਣ ਸਰਬ ਭੂਤ ਆਪਿ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਾਧਿ ਦੇਵ ਸਹਸ ਮੁਖ ਫਨਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
राम रवण दुरत दवण सकल भवण कुसल करण सरब भूत आपि ही देवाधि देव सहस मुख फनिंद जीउ ॥
Rām ravaṇ ḏuraṯ ḏavaṇ sakal bẖavaṇ kusal karaṇ sarab bẖūṯ āp hī ḏevāḏẖ ḏev sahas mukẖ faninḏ jī▫o.
The Lord of contemplation, Destroyer of sin, who brings pleasure to the beings of all realms, He Himself is the God of gods, Divinity of the divine, the thousand-headed king cobra.
ਜਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਮਛ ਕਛ ਹੁਅ ਬਰਾਹ ਜਮੁਨਾ ਕੈ ਕੂਲਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਖੇਲਿਓ ਜਿਨਿ ਗਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
जरम करम मछ कछ हुअ बराह जमुना कै कूलि खेलु खेलिओ जिनि गिंद जीउ ॥
Jaram karam macẖẖ kacẖẖ hu▫a barāh jamunā kai kūl kẖel kẖeli▫o jin binn jī▫o.
He took birth in the Incarnations of the Fish, Tortoise and Wild Boar, and played His part. He played games on the banks of the Jamunaa River.
ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਰੁ ਹੀਏ ਧਾਰੁ ਤਜੁ ਬਿਕਾਰੁ ਮਨ ਗਯੰਦ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਗੁਬਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੯॥
नामु सारु हीए धारु तजु बिकारु मन गयंद सतिगुरू सतिगुरू सतिगुर गुबिंद जीउ ॥४॥९॥
Nām sār hī▫e ḏẖār ṯaj bikār man ga▫yanḏ saṯgurū saṯgurū saṯgur gubinḏ jī▫o. ||4||9||
Enshrine this most excellent Name within your heart, and renounce the wickedness of the mind, O Gayand the True Guru, the True Guru, the True Guru is the Lord of the Universe Himself. ||4||9||
ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
सिरी गुरू सिरी गुरू सिरी गुरू सति जीउ ॥
Sirī gurū sirī gurū sirī gurū saṯ jī▫o.
The Supreme Guru, the Supreme Guru, the Supreme Guru, the True, Dear Lord.
ਗੁਰ ਕਹਿਆ ਮਾਨੁ ਨਿਜ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਸਚੁ ਜਾਨੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਇਹੈ ਨਿਸਿ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਹੋਇ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਲਹਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
गुर कहिआ मानु निज निधानु सचु जानु मंत्रु इहै निसि बासुर होइ कल्यानु लहहि परम गति जीउ ॥
Gur kahi▫ā mān nij niḏẖān sacẖ jān manṯar ihai nis bāsur ho▫e kal▫yān lahėh param gaṯ jī▫o.
Respect and obey the Guru's Word; this is your own personal treasure - know this mantra as true. Night and day, you shall be saved, and blessed with the supreme status.
ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜਣ ਜਣ ਸਿਉ ਛਾਡੁ ਧੋਹੁ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾ ਫੰਧੁ ਕਾਟੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਰਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
कामु क्रोधु लोभु मोहु जण जण सिउ छाडु धोहु हउमै का फंधु काटु साधसंगि रति जीउ ॥
Kām kroḏẖ lobẖ moh jaṇ jaṇ si▫o cẖẖād ḏẖohu ha▫umai kā fanḏẖ kāt sāḏẖsang raṯ jī▫o.
Renounce sexual desire, anger, greed and attachment; give up your games of deception. Snap the noose of egotism, and let yourself be at home in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy.
ਦੇਹ ਗੇਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਚਿਤ ਬਿਲਾਸੁ ਜਗਤ ਏਹੁ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਸਦਾ ਸੇਉ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਤਾ ਕਰੁ ਮਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
देह गेहु त्रिअ सनेहु चित बिलासु जगत एहु चरन कमल सदा सेउ द्रिड़ता करु मति जीउ ॥
Ḏeh gehu ṯari▫a sanehu cẖiṯ bilās jagaṯ ehu cẖaran kamal saḏā se▫o ḏariṛ▫ṯā kar maṯ jī▫o.
Free your consciousness of attachment to your body, your home, your spouse, and the pleasures of this world. Serve forever at His Lotus Feet, and firmly implant these teachings within.
ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਰੁ ਹੀਏ ਧਾਰੁ ਤਜੁ ਬਿਕਾਰੁ ਮਨ ਗਯੰਦ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਤਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੫॥੧੦॥
नामु सारु हीए धारु तजु बिकारु मन गयंद सिरी गुरू सिरी गुरू सिरी गुरू सति जीउ ॥५॥१०॥
Nām sār hī▫e ḏẖār ṯaj bikār man ga▫yanḏ sirī gurū sirī gurū sirī gurū saṯ jī▫o. ||5||10||
Enshrine this most excellent Name within your heart, and renounce the wickedness of the mind, O Gayand. the Supreme Guru, the Supreme Guru, the Supreme Guru, the True, Dear Lord. ||5||10||
ਸੇਵਕ ਕੈ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਸਦਕਾ ॥
सेवक कै भरपूर जुगु जुगु वाहगुरू तेरा सभु सदका ॥
Sevak kai bẖarpūr jug jug vāhgurū ṯerā sabẖ saḏkā.
Your servants are totally fulfilled, throughout the ages; O Waahay Guru, it is all You, forever.
ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋਊ ਤੂ ਕਦ ਕਾ ॥
निरंकारु प्रभु सदा सलामति कहि न सकै कोऊ तू कद का ॥
Nirankār parabẖ saḏā salāmaṯ kahi na sakai ko▫ū ṯū kaḏ kā.
O Formless Lord God, You are eternally intact; no one can say how You came into being.
ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਸਿਰੇ ਤੈ ਅਗਨਤ ਤਿਨ ਕਉ ਮੋਹੁ ਭਯਾ ਮਨ ਮਦ ਕਾ ॥
ब्रहमा बिसनु सिरे तै अगनत तिन कउ मोहु भया मन मद का ॥
Barahmā bisan sire ṯai agnaṯ ṯin ka▫o moh bẖa▫yā man maḏ kā.
You created countless Brahmas and Vishnus; their minds were intoxicated with emotional attachment.
ਚਵਰਾਸੀਹ ਲਖ ਜੋਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ਸਭ ਹੂ ਕਉ ਤਦ ਕਾ ॥
चवरासीह लख जोनि उपाई रिजकु दीआ सभ हू कउ तद का ॥
Cẖavrāsīh lakẖ jon upā▫ī rijak ḏī▫ā sabẖ hū ka▫o ṯaḏ kā.
You created the 8.4 million species of beings, and provide for their sustenance.
ਸੇਵਕ ਕੈ ਭਰਪੂਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰਾ ਸਭੁ ਸਦਕਾ ॥੧॥੧੧॥
सेवक कै भरपूर जुगु जुगु वाहगुरू तेरा सभु सदका ॥१॥११॥
Sevak kai bẖarpūr jug jug vāhgurū ṯerā sabẖ saḏkā. ||1||11||
Your servants are totally fulfilled, throughout the ages; O Waahay Guru, it is all You, forever. ||1||11||
ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਕਾ ਬਡਾ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥
वाहु वाहु का बडा तमासा ॥
vāhu vāhu kā badā ṯamāsā.
Waaho! Waaho! Great! Great is the Play of God!
ਆਪੇ ਹਸੈ ਆਪਿ ਹੀ ਚਿਤਵੈ ਆਪੇ ਚੰਦੁ ਸੂਰੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ॥
आपे हसै आपि ही चितवै आपे चंदु सूरु परगासा ॥
Āpe hasai āp hī cẖiṯvai āpe cẖanḏ sūr pargāsā.
He Himself laughs, and He Himself thinks; He Himself illumines the sun and the moon.
ਆਪੇ ਜਲੁ ਆਪੇ ਥਲੁ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਨੁ ਆਪੇ ਕੀਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬਾਸਾ ॥
आपे जलु आपे थलु थम्हनु आपे कीआ घटि घटि बासा ॥
Āpe jal āpe thal thamĥan āpe kī▫ā gẖat gẖat bāsā.
He Himself is the water, He Himself is the earth and its support. He Himself abides in each and every heart.
ਆਪੇ ਨਰੁ ਆਪੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਨਾਰੀ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰਿ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪਾਸਾ ॥
आपे नरु आपे फुनि नारी आपे सारि आप ही पासा ॥
Āpe nar āpe fun nārī āpe sār āp hī pāsā.
He Himself is male, and He Himself is female; He Himself is the chessman, and He Himself is the board.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਭੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਕਾ ਬਡਾ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥੨॥੧੨॥
गुरमुखि संगति सभै बिचारहु वाहु वाहु का बडा तमासा ॥२॥१२॥
Gurmukẖ sangaṯ sabẖai bicẖārahu vāhu vāhu kā badā ṯamāsā. ||2||12||
As Gurmukh, join the Sangat, and consider all this: Waaho! Waaho! Great! Great is the Play of God! ||2||12||
ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡ ਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥
कीआ खेलु बड मेलु तमासा वाहिगुरू तेरी सभ रचना ॥
Kī▫ā kẖel bad mel ṯamāsā vāhigurū ṯerī sabẖ racẖnā.
You have formed and created this play, this great game. O Waahay Guru, this is all You, forever.
ਤੂ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਗਗਨਿ ਪਯਾਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹ੍ਯ੍ਯਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤੇ ਮੀਠੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਚਨਾ ॥
तू जलि थलि गगनि पयालि पूरि रह्या अम्रित ते मीठे जा के बचना ॥
Ŧū jal thal gagan pa▫yāl pūr rah▫yā amriṯ ṯe mīṯẖe jā ke bacẖnā.
You are pervading and permeating the water, land, skies and nether regions; Your Words are sweeter than Ambrosial Nectar.
ਮਾਨਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਾਦਿਕ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਕਾਲੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਜਚਨਾ ॥
मानहि ब्रहमादिक रुद्रादिक काल का कालु निरंजन जचना ॥
Mānėh barahmāḏik ruḏrāḏik kāl kā kāl niranjan jacẖnā.
Brahmas and Shivas respect and obey You. O Death of death, Formless Lord, I beg of You.

 

[Harry Haller]

but neither waheguru nor lady gaga appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji according to Mr Dhillon

no it is myself that is mistaken, Mr Dhillon has stated that Guru Nanakji never used the word Waheguru, not that it did not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, apologies, my argument is flawed in that respect, and that I guess is a lesson in humility!

 

[arshdeep88]

Beautiful thread.
Learned a lot and it is a beauty in itself that how learning never stops.

 

[chazSingh]

no it is myself that is mistaken, Mr Dhillon has stated that Guru Nanakji never used the word Waheguru, not that it did not appear in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, apologies, my argument is flawed in that respect, and that I guess is a lesson in humility!

I agree with many aspects of the original article...but we are told to accept the whole Sri Guru Granth as our Guru...as the absolute truth...

When an author starts to distinguish between who physically wrote the shabads i.e. Guru's, bhagats, etc etc and the shabad doesn't have the same importance because it wasn't written directly by Guru Nanak, then my friend that is the point at which i stop reading an article.

He has lost the whole essence of Guru Granth...that the shabad is the shabad no matter what physical body it was written by and it was included in the Sri Guru Granth by the Guru's because it contained the absolute truth...and nothing but the truth..

God Bless Ji..

 

[gur_meet]

ActsOGod ji had asked a question in the thread "How to Do Simran" which stands merged with this thread. although his question put on 11th june asking for help in simran. It is not visible now . reading that I decided to share. My typing is slow and and also being busy in worldly affairs so here I am sharing my experience of beginning part of simran which is quite relevant and would prove helpful.
What is being shared is guru guided practical experience.
I am not a Sikh scholar but definitely study books so as to understand gurbani's nuances better for application. There were many questions in my mind. The Sikh katha wachaks talked about importance of simran but no one explained process of simran. so for learning how to do simran and so for answers i started reading books by Sikh writers and tikas. Search was for tips which are called a Dhool of Gursikhs. A small hint and forward step is made. This was years back and I don't recollect the exact sequence. So without talking about amritvela , nitnem , listening to shabads etc i am moving directly to relevant points being shared. These were small hints found after sifting through many books being practical experience shared by other gursikhs .
First is to let go of all doubts, questions etc. And to let go of even the thought that ‘you are not worthy as there are so many shortcomings. ".
Second waheguruji being formless can only be perceived by feeling, so tip was just feel HIS presence even though initially one does not feel the presence. This is known as Hazuri. This was done by me while doing nitnem. There was no hurry to finish the nitnem path. I remember once taking many days to even finish sukhmani sahib.
There was also a tip to think you are reading gurbani to guru who is listening ( this I tried to follow initially but stopped ).
Third is “listening to your own voice while doing waheguruji simran “. This pulls your awareness inside. Slowly one get used to keeping the awareness inside. When I did it repeatedly the awareness settled of its own accord behind the eyes within the head. I found this to be a good factor in detachment. One can connect within; eyes can remain open and the worldly work which is automatic can be done except like talking.
I do hear talk of some Sikhs telling ‘keep your attention at heart”. A few say between brows. But I found the natural place to be within the head as ears are also nearby. The so ignored other points of focus were ignored.
At first you voice the words and hear it. Later the the waheguru jap is done within without voicing the sound and is heard within.
Last point being shared is important for one who is beginning simran as well as for a higher level. The progress is in steps and the next step is the aim or goal in of the Jap. The word Jap means to repeat again and again. Jap thus has a purpose. This repetition is the dry part. There are doubts. The goal looks elusive even non-existent. Doubts all the way. There is no Ras (anand) in the jap. The Sikh keeps up the effort (udham). Then with guru’s grace the goal becomes an experience. The practical example is needed here to explain.
In the below Shabad Gurbani says that
ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਖਲੋਇਅੜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ॥
Saajanarraa Maeraa Saajanarraa Nikatt Khaloeiarraa Maeraa Saajanarraa ||
Friend, my Friend - standing so near to me is my Friend!
ਜਾਨੀਅੜਾ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੀਅੜਾ ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇਅੜਾ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੀਅੜਾ ॥
Jaaneearraa Har Jaaneearraa Nain Aloeiarraa Har Jaaneearraa ||
Beloved, the Lord my Beloved - with my eyes, I have seen the Lord, my Beloved!
ਨੈਣ ਅਲੋਇਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਸੋਇਆ ਅਤਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਗੂੜਾ ॥
Nain Aloeiaa Ghatt Ghatt Soeiaa Ath Anmrith Pria Goorraa ||
With my eyes I have seen Him, sleeping within each and every heart; my Beloved is the sweetest ambrosial nectar.
ਨਾਲਿ ਹੋਵੰਦਾ ਲਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੰਦਾ ਸੁਆਉ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਮੂੜਾ ॥
Naal Hovandhaa Lehi N Sakandhaa Suaao N Jaanai Moorraa ||
He is with all, but he cannot be found; the fool does not know His taste.
ਮਾਇਆ ਮਦਿ ਮਾਤਾ ਹੋਛੀ ਬਾਤਾ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਭਰਮ ਧੜਾ ॥
Maaeiaa Madh Maathaa Hoshhee Baathaa Milan N Jaaee Bharam Dhharraa ||
Intoxicated with the wine of Maya, the mortal babbles on about trivial affairs; giving in to the illusion, he cannot meet the Lord.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਜਨੁ ਸਭ ਕੈ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਖੜਾ ॥੧॥
Kahu Naanak Gur Bin Naahee Soojhai Har Saajan Sabh Kai Nikatt Kharraa ||1||
Says Nanak, without the Guru, he cannot understand the Lord, the Friend who is standing near everyone. ||1||
ਰਾਮਕਲੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੨੪ page 924.

The words “ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਖਲੋਇਅੜਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਾਜਨੜਾ ॥ The feeling of presence of Waheguruji is not a part of general experience. The illusion is so strong and the attraction of worldly affairs ever keeps one engrossed. But these are words of Gurbani. These words are absolute truth for the Gursikh. So having faith in the gurbani words the jap of gurbani shabad is done. The pungtee or pungtees repeated again and again. When I shifted to Waheguru jap then the HIS presence as indicated by gurbani words were the aim. Ignoring doubts and the dry part the time comes when the feeling is out and visibly felt.
The feeling does not go now. It comes back the moment Waheguru word is uttered. It is simran now. Both are together.
Simran is a mix of Jap and vichar. So the word JAP which first comes after Gurparsad and before Aadh Sach Jugaadh Sach is very important.
It enables the Sikh to cross two main obstacles. One is of linear time. In the world there is cause and effect sequence. We expect the same in spiritual world. We do not see the result as the result lies in the timeless world. The Sach (truth) is beyond time, ever same and is thus timeless. The jap crosses this boundary and as Gur parsad the inner connection is made.

What I have shared is practical experience after reading a fellow Sikhs words relevant for beginning simran. Hoping this part of experience could be relevant . There are better Sikhs in this forum . If it does not match any of their experience so I am open to correction.

 

[chazSingh]

There are better Sikhs in this forum . If it does not match any of their experience so I am open to correction.

Please do not say you are open to correction ji

you do not want anyone to correct you...you want to go with the feelings you have, the experiences of trying and seeing the results...

if you are getting results by what you are doing, then there is no correction in it, and no need for anyone to tell you you are wrong...

I have tried many things in the past and what you say at the beginning to try to feel waheguru there with you, within you is the best start anyone can have...

because He is there with you within you in a way that we cannot even begin to imagine..

eventually the doubt will start to dissapear because Guru Ji has heard your heart calling...and He resides in your heart...and realization of Waheguru within you will begin, if it hasn't already happened

 

[gur_meet]

Chaz ji
What I have shared are from my experiences years back. Only Guru Knows where the stage is a Sikh is.

One learns through sharing. A gursikh had long back shared that in gurbani there is no word "abyhas' meaning practice. The Guru advice is "Udham" meaning effort.
Si,ran is no skill to be practiced and made better and better. Nitnem is not meant to be better in doing it.

Guruji says in Japji Sahib ' ਅਖਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖਰੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥ Akharee Naam Akharee Saalaah || " . The words lead to naam and the words that make us the way to Naam- sift saslaah (praises).

The words are thoughts and thoughts become beliefs . Group belief's influence your thoughts as well.
You say 'follow the heart' . " follow the feelings" . Who knows these may have an agenda of their own like attachment . This is a world has duality structured within it.Where there is Love there is Fear as well .Fear is part of created world. all vikars have in one way or another a fear connection. Guru ji says Sat state is Nirbhau. Means Fear is not part of HIM. our feelings and behavior has quite often fear influence.

Gurbani advices follow the Guru. Gurbani is absolute truth and the advice is the correct path. The Group beliefs in the form of good quotes often appear as true.
Guru ji says " ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ Hukam Rajaaee Chalanaa Naanak Likhiaa Naal ||1|| " . This is what to be followed. This gets written in the form of thoughts and action which changes the Sikh's mind.

Words are important . These are thoughts in the mind. These have a force of their own.
Gurbani words are true potent spiritual directional force for the Gursikh. When the Sikh comes to realize and accepts the presence of Shabad Guru within the gurbani then communicates.

 

[chazSingh]

Chaz ji
What I have shared are from my experiences years back. Only Guru Knows where the stage is a Sikh is.

One learns through sharing. A gursikh had long back shared that in gurbani there is no word "abyhas' meaning practice. The Guru advice is "Udham" meaning effort.
Si,ran is no skill to be practiced and made better and better. Nitnem is not meant to be better in doing it.

Guruji says in Japji Sahib ' ਅਖਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖਰੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥ Akharee Naam Akharee Saalaah || " . The words lead to naam and the words that make us the way to Naam- sift saslaah (praises).

The words are thoughts and thoughts become beliefs . Group belief's influence your thoughts as well.
You say 'follow the heart' . " follow the feelings" . Who knows these may have an agenda of their own like attachment . This is a world has duality structured within it.Where there is Love there is Fear as well .Fear is part of created world. all vikars have in one way or another a fear connection. Guru ji says Sat state is Nirbhau. Means Fear is not part of HIM. our feelings and behavior has quite often fear influence.

Gurbani advices follow the Guru. Gurbani is absolute truth and the advice is the correct path. The Group beliefs in the form of good quotes often appear as true.
Guru ji says " ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ Hukam Rajaaee Chalanaa Naanak Likhiaa Naal ||1|| " . This is what to be followed. This gets written in the form of thoughts and action which changes the Sikh's mind.

Words are important . These are thoughts in the mind. These have a force of their own.
Gurbani words are true potent spiritual directional force for the Gursikh. When the Sikh comes to realize and accepts the presence of Shabad Guru within the gurbani then communicates.

great post ji

 

[Luckysingh]

I agree with many aspects of the original article...but we are told to accept the whole Sri Guru Granth as our Guru...as the absolute truth...
..

I'm afraid that I don't agree with many of the aspects because it looks at the issue from a self made tinted lens.
Every aspect can be argued with one by one, and point for point.

There is one path to the Harimandar but there are 4 entrances.
I'm afraid the author can only see one path, one entrance and ignorantly ignores the other three !

 

[gur_meet]

I'm afraid that I don't agree with many of the aspects because it looks at the issue from a self made tinted lens.
Every aspect can be argued with one by one, and point for point.

There is one path to the Harimandar but there are 4 entrances.
I'm afraid the author can only see one path, one entrance and ignorantly ignores the other three !

Lucky Singh ji

There are many many tinted glasses. There are so many interpretations.That is the effect of maya. It does't let one know the Satt (truth) in one go. The crossing of barriers need steps. The seeker has to sift. It is a Knoj(search) and and in the process the change comes.
When one finds some understanding another higher door opens up .

The Sikh moving on the path only has to say at the tinted glass " now this is not so" and moves further with only Guru as guide . The tinted glass keeps changing. There is a higher version next.

I too do not agree and so does chaz ji to aspects of the article. Let the article be. No need to argue the points. Please go ahead and explain further.

 

[chazSingh]

I'm afraid that I don't agree with many of the aspects because it looks at the issue from a self made tinted lens.
Every aspect can be argued with one by one, and point for point.

There is one path to the Harimandar but there are 4 entrances.
I'm afraid the author can only see one path, one entrance and ignorantly ignores the other three !

i found the article quite judgemental...marking people with the same brush...

yes he pointed out that many people do simran in a robotic fashion, for material gain...but He failed to see the broader view of this subject and that many people are reaping the spiritual benefits of Simran and do so with no want or need of material gain whatsoever...

there are good plumbers and bad plumbers...they all co-exist...this is just the way of the world...it's the same with any religious practice...both are required for our experiences and upliftement

But as soon as i read the discounting of the shabad 'Waheguru' and the loving way it was used as not having it's importance due to not being written by the Guru Ji's themselves...

that was just something very strange indeed...

 

[Harry Haller]

But as soon as i read the discounting of the shabad 'Waheguru' and the loving way it was used as not having it's importance due to not being written by the Guru Ji's themselves...

that was just something very strange indeed...

I am afraid it was that very point that made me take a hard look at my own arguments, personally, my own stance now is live and let live, if meditation works, then neither Mr Dhillon, me, or anyone has the right to mock.

Good luck with the meditation gentlemen..

 

[chazSingh]

I am afraid it was that very point that made me take a hard look at my own arguments, personally, my own stance now is live and let live, if meditation works, then neither Mr Dhillon, me, or anyone has the right to mock.

Good luck with the meditation gentlemen..

looks like Harry Ji's account has been hacked...

 

[Harry Haller]

looks like Harry Ji's account has been hacked...

no, not at all, its not like you guys are into animal sacrifice, rape and pillage is it, I can see where your coming from, I have no wish to be as pedantic as I have been, lets move on

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I visit the Net daily..randomsly asking questions form Google and reading....and i agree with Harry Hailer ji....just like some swear by their holy grandmothers that ahuge dose of...say..papaya seeds "cured" their knee pain..instantly...others claim that eating a ton of the same papaya seeds didnt make an iota of difference...this is a fact of life..what works for A,B,Z doesnt work for C,D, and Y..live with it. For some Mediation...kundali yogs and various positions..etc etc.. works..for others its junk..live with it.:kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue:

 

[chazSingh]

I visit the Net daily..randomsly asking questions form Google and reading....and i agree with Harry Hailer ji....just like some swear by their holy grandmothers that ahuge dose of...say..papaya seeds "cured" their knee pain..instantly...others claim that eating a ton of the same papaya seeds didnt make an iota of difference...this is a fact of life..what works for A,B,Z doesnt work for C,D, and Y..live with it. For some Mediation...kundali yogs and various positions..etc etc.. works..for others its junk..live with it.:kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue::kaurkhalsaflagblue:

just like you said, most things in life are subjective...ones own unique experience is the most important...

People are doing all these things in order to quench that thirst they are having inside for experience of God...
The things they do will slowly be refined through their experiences...

eventually you just realize all is in His hands, and that you cannot make anything happen yourself (ego) ... all these perceived efforts were just Him, guiding you along your unique experiences, slowly chopping away at your Ego... so regardless of the judgements made by others, aleays follow your heart and inner feeling..don;t fight it...try things, learn from them and then move forward with your new found Gian..

I tried one method...and had an amazing inner experience...
For the following days i re-tried that method again and again...but i have not been able to (Ego) re-produce that experience....i have no control over this (Ego is being challenged and chopped at)


Mind, body and spirit gets tired of all the perceived efforts and methods...one then just sits in a moment of silence, turns to Gurbani (our link to the Source) and holds it very close to their heart (love) where god is already waiting...

easier said than done but will be worth it in the end

 

[Awakeand Singh]

Meditation is a useful technique for training the mind to concentrate deeply on one thing (the so-called, "Single-pointed mind"). This, in turn, will help the practitioner achieve Consciousness or Presence - which is what I believe the author of this excellent piece is getting at when attempting to describe Simran in language comprehensible to the Western mind. If I am mistaken, I would appreciate the author's clarification so I can get myself on track.
To Spnadmin, I would venture to say that Simran applies not just to situations we would expect, like, "feeding the hungry or soothing a crying child". It also applies to things like washing the dishes, changing a baby's diaper, walking across the room, ... and even sitting still with eyes closed.:grinningkaur:

 

[Luckysingh]

Meditation is a useful technique for training the mind to concentrate deeply on one thing (the so-called, "Single-pointed mind"). This, in turn, will help the practitioner achieve Consciousness or Presence - which is what I believe the author of this excellent piece is getting at when attempting to describe Simran in language comprehensible to the Western mind. If I am mistaken, I would appreciate the author's clarification so I can get myself on track.

Yes, the article starts off very well when it describes that simran is all done with the MIND... BUT, then the author goes off track on the wrong tangent when he talks about chanting not being gurmat.... (he seems to have lost the whole point of what he began the article with!) because he keeps the issue on the technique or jugtee of simran.


See my simple Q & A below, which highlight the points that are missing in the article....

Q-Is chanting or using your tongue to utter God's name useless and not gurmat ?
A- YES

Q- Is Using a Mala/rosary or other tools to aid jap ..also useless ?
A- YES

Q-Why is this practice useless ? ... is this not naam simran ??
A- NO.
Using tools to do simran is not forbidden and neither are they manmat...providing that they are used as tools only !

For example GUR-MAN-TAR
GUR=guru
Man= Mind
Tar= Tool
The gurmantar is a tool to aid and help in simran.

Q- Doesn't the tongue do simran when you jap ?
Q- When someone uses mala or diva/candle..etc. to focus... are they not doing some sort of simran then ?

ANSWER- NO, to all the above, because if You are NOT doing simran or jap in your MIND.... then you are quite simply not doing simran.

Simran Only happens when your MIND is focusing on nothing else but Waheguru.
You can jap all you want until your tongue fatigues, because if your Mind is running in all directions in the act... then it is NOT simran..
it is simply an empty practice.

In other words... parroting(someone's favourite poke!), can in fact, be completely gurmat if your MIND is focused on Waheguru !

True Simran and jap only happens when it is done with the Mind !

 

[Harry Haller]

To Spnadmin, I would venture to say that Simran applies not just to situations we would expect, like, "feeding the hungry or soothing a crying child". It also applies to things like washing the dishes, changing a baby's diaper, walking across the room, ... and even sitting still with eyes closed.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/42350-spn-admin-narayanjot-kaur-passes-away.html