Sikhs Failed To Follow And Spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message

[Tejwant Singh]

Dear Tejwant Ji,

I am a student of Sri Guru Granth Sajib , not part of religion, I try to be the best student i can it including questioning the statements of Bani and try to find the truth in them. The message of Bani is for an individual. Simply put Satguru is not an individual or any scripture rather TRUTH the TEACHER that must be contemplated through the divine power of questioning ,mostly self questioning. Its the truth that shows one the real value rather than the values of the senses. Its very easy to run away from the truth. A few years ago a friend of mine told me that there is no value in truth as a result of his experience. He got into a minor accident and the cop asked him if he was wearing the seat belt, in his honesty he told him no, he was issued a ticked. Therefore he made a decision to run away from the truth.

Quote " Sat padarath gurmukh lehoo, Prub ka Bhana Sat kar sahoo. Eat the truth and bare its consequences as doings of the lord. For those who suffer losses as my friend did this statement provides a mountain of comfort. After contemplating on this statement for several months I see the truth in it.

There is a saying " Akhee dekh Makhi nahi Khadi Jandi" Once you have seen the fly in milk it can not be oaten. Once one knows the truth he never falters.

Only the ones who practice can have the ability to successfully preach as our gurus did.

eropa234 ji,

Guru Fateh.

Nice to know that you are a student of SGGS. As you are a student of SGGS then how do you come to terms with the following Shabad especially the verse in bold and your initial statement which I asked you to elaborate?

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੨॥
साधसंगि जो हरि गुण गावै सो निरमलु करि लीजै ॥२॥
Sāḏẖsang jo har guṇ gāvai so nirmal kar lījai. ||2||
One who sings the Glorious Praises of the Lord in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, becomes spotlessly pure. ||2||

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
बेद कतेब सिम्रिति सभि सासत इन्ह पड़िआ मुकति न होई ॥
Beḏ kaṯeb simriṯ sabẖ sāsaṯ inĥ paṛi▫ā mukaṯ na ho▫ī.
One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation.

ਏਕੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
एकु अखरु जो गुरमुखि जापै तिस की निरमल सोई ॥३॥
Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||


Thanks

Tejwant Singh

 

[Bhai Harbans Lal]

Although there is considerable overlap, Sikhee or Gurmat is more than Sikhs or Sikhism, their objectives, symbolism, scope and intent should be distinguished before we can tell any one what Sikhee stands for and how universal is its appeal. Sikhee or Gurmat is exclusively based on teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikhs may add to or subtract from it any theoloogy and customs derived from their history.
Harbans Lal, Arlington, USA

 

[dalbirk]

IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts :
1. They have yet to grasp the real Definition of God as described in MOOLMANTAR .
2. They have failed to follow the real terminology of SHABAD ( WORD ) as Guru . Almost very negligible no of persons I have come across till today are clear about how Shabad ( Word / Gurbani ) is our Guru & how it can make us achieve the state of Living Emancipation ( Jiwan Mukt ) . As a result the Sants , Babas etc step in to fill the gap whose only purpose is to fleece the guillible believers & make them worship himself only & not the LORD GOD .
3. The MODERN Sikhs have gone one step furthur again questioning the very baisis of Sikhism , its requirement in 21st century , they simply do not want to follow the tenants of Sikhism but keep criticising all the beliefs of Sikhism while at the same time calling themselves as Sikhs .
4.The basic three pillars of Sikhism are
a. Kirat Karo ( Do honest labour )
b. Naam Japo ( Remember God )
c. Wand Chakko ( share your earnings )
But Sikhs are all into external practices which are dogmatic heavily influenced by their sense of Ego & show off like Nagar Kirtans, Roadside lanagrs / Chabeels , Rumallas on SGGS , hiring expensive Raagis , Series of Akhand paaths , Building & Goldplating More Gurudwaras Hemkunt Yatras etc . But are not doing any effort on THREE BASIC PILLARS front .
5 . There is absolutely no effort on part of Sikhs to impart teachings of Sikhi , Gurmat/ SGGS to their children thinking it to be unnecessary . Mostly even they themselves are not attuned to the teachings of SGGS , Rehat Maryada etc .
6 . There has been absolutely no effort on part of Sikh institutions to translate SGGS into other languages of India starting with Hindi , English , Spanish , mandarin etc . There is no effort to make a consensus on which translations are treated as approved & start their use in daily Katha , Hukamnaamas . Nobody is ready to spend even single penny on translations whichever are done are with ill-intent under the influence of some sect , group which is actually a mistranslation done intentionally to create more confusion .

 

[Harry Rakhraj]

I was under the impression that Sikhism is non-evangelist . If that is correct, where's the question of spreading the word, guru Nanak's or of anyone else ?​

 

[Harry Rakhraj]

Originally Posted by eropa234
Dear Tejwant Ji,

I am a student of Sri Guru Granth Sajib , not part of religion, I try to be the best student i can it including questioning the statements of Bani and try to find the truth in them. The message of Bani is for an individual. Simply put Satguru is not an individual or any scripture rather TRUTH the TEACHER that must be contemplated through the divine power of questioning ,mostly self questioning. Its the truth that shows one the real value rather than the values of the senses. Its very easy to run away from the truth. A few years ago a friend of mine told me that there is no value in truth as a result of his experience. He got into a minor accident and the cop asked him if he was wearing the seat belt, in his honesty he told him no, he was issued a ticked. Therefore he made a decision to run away from the truth.

Quote " Sat padarath gurmukh lehoo, Prub ka Bhana Sat kar sahoo. Eat the truth and bare its consequences as doings of the lord. For those who suffer losses as my friend did this statement provides a mountain of comfort. After contemplating on this statement for several months I see the truth in it.

There is a saying " Akhee dekh Makhi nahi Khadi Jandi" Once you have seen the fly in milk it can not be oaten. Once one knows the truth he never falters.

Only the ones who practice can have the ability to successfully preach as our gurus did.

I am also a student of Guru Granth Sahib, although just a beginner. I have so many questions but no one to answer them. Maybe I could address them to you?

 

[Taranjeet singh]

Originally Posted by dalbirk
IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts :
1. They have yet to grasp the real Definition of God as described in MOOLMANTAR .
2. They have failed to follow the real terminology of SHABAD ( WORD ) as Guru . Almost very negligible no of persons I have come across till today are clear about how Shabad ( Word / Gurbani ) is our Guru & how it can make us achieve the state of Living Emancipation ( Jiwan Mukt ) . As a result the Sants , Babas etc step in to fill the gap whose only purpose is to fleece the guillible believers & make them worship himself only & not the LORD GOD .
3. The MODERN Sikhs have gone one step furthur again questioning the very baisis of Sikhism , its requirement in 21st century , they simply do not want to follow the tenants of Sikhism but keep criticising all the beliefs of Sikhism while at the same time calling themselves as Sikhs .
4.The basic three pillars of Sikhism are
a. Kirat Karo ( Do honest labour )
b. Naam Japo ( Remember God )
c. Wand Chakko ( share your earnings )
But Sikhs are all into external practices which are dogmatic heavily influenced by their sense of Ego & show off like Nagar Kirtans, Roadside lanagrs / Chabeels , Rumallas on SGGS , hiring expensive Raagis , Series of Akhand paaths , Building & Goldplating More Gurudwaras Hemkunt Yatras etc . But are not doing any effort on THREE BASIC PILLARS front .
5 . There is absolutely no effort on part of Sikhs to impart teachings of Sikhi , Gurmat/ SGGS to their children thinking it to be unnecessary . Mostly even they themselves are not attuned to the teachings of SGGS , Rehat Maryada etc .
6 . There has been absolutely no effort on part of Sikh institutions to translate SGGS into other languages of India starting with Hindi , English , Spanish , mandarin etc . There is no effort to make a consensus on which translations are treated as approved & start their use in daily Katha , Hukamnaamas . Nobody is ready to spend even single penny on translations whichever are done are with ill-intent under the influence of some sect , group which is actually a mistranslation done intentionally to create more confusion .

About few days back I also had the notion that we are not moving at the speed that we should have been. But lately I have realized that every things happens as per His will. But yes, it should not make us complacent. All that you have stated do have a merit.

But we should also keep in mind that sikhism is the youngest of all the major religions. It has caught the eye of the westerners who are seeking peace of mind after being in the midst of maya[ wealth] for quite some time. Let us not bother about the quantity.Let us concentrate on the quality of the product that we want to have in the floral basket of sikhism. Of what good it would be to add ten more to sikhi out which seven are drug addicts. It is the quality on which we have not to make any compromise. It is tru that Bani takes lot of time and the real seeker finds his ways with His Grace.

Let us see what the Supremus has in mind for all of us.

But Always Be in Chardi kala.

May God bless us all!!

 

[spnadmin]

Originally Posted by rakhra
I was under the impression that Sikhism is non-evangelist . If that is correct, where's the question of spreading the word, guru Nanak's or of anyone else ?

rakhra ji

The "missionary" work of Sikhism has a specific meaning that differs from the evangelism of other religions such as Christianity and Islam.

Missionary work among Sikhs typically means spreading out among Sikh sangats and teaching Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Sikh history and the philosophy of Guru Nanak in greater depth. Using more teaching materials such as books -- which may not be available in gurdwaras -- written by notable Sikh scholars. The sangats of India and of the Diaspora are in sore need of this kind of missionary contact because "granthis" can't do it alone. There are missionary colleges in India and the UK for example that prepare people to assume this role.

So we are not referring to missionary work to the non-Sikh.

However, there too is a missed opportunity. How many people are on the brink of needing more in life than they currently have, know of Sikhism, want to learn more, and are put off by the "Sikhism-light" introductions they find on the Internet? I think quite a few.

See my next post for a response to your second question.

 

[spnadmin]

I am also a student of Guru Granth Sahib, although just a beginner. I have so many questions but no one to answer them. Maybe I could address them to you?

Rakhra ji

I am not aware that you have asked for answers to your questions here and failed to get them. You never sent me a private message. Did you ask any others among mod's or admin for some direction to members who could be of assistance?

 

[spnadmin]

Originally Posted by eropa234
Dear Tejwant Ji,

I am a student of Sri Guru Granth Sajib , not part of religion, I try to be the best student i can it including questioning the statements of Bani and try to find the truth in them. The message of Bani is for an individual. Simply put Satguru is not an individual or any scripture rather TRUTH the TEACHER that must be contemplated through the divine power of questioning ,mostly self questioning. Its the truth that shows one the real value rather than the values of the senses. Its very easy to run away from the truth. A few years ago a friend of mine told me that there is no value in truth as a result of his experience. He got into a minor accident and the cop asked him if he was wearing the seat belt, in his honesty he told him no, he was issued a ticked. Therefore he made a decision to run away from the truth.

Quote " Sat padarath gurmukh lehoo, Prub ka Bhana Sat kar sahoo. Eat the truth and bare its consequences as doings of the lord. NOT from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, but your interpretation. For those who suffer losses as my friend did this statement provides a mountain of comfort. After contemplating on this statement for several months I see the truth in it.

There is a saying " Akhee dekh Makhi nahi Khadi Jandi" Once you have seen the fly in milk it can not be oaten. NOT from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, but your interpretation. Once one knows the truth he never falters.

Only the ones who practice can have the ability to successfully preach as our gurus did.

eropa ji

Some of us are students of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as "part of religion." Your commentary may have relevance for world-wide spirituality. However, quotations from the beej of Kabir ji, or scholars of other "mats" cannot be substituded as Gurmat in the heart and soul of Nanak's tradition.

 

[Harry Rakhraj]

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur
eropa ji

Some of us are students of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as "part of religion." Your commentary may have relevance for world-wide spirituality. However, quotations from the beej of Kabir ji, or scholars of other "mats" cannot be substituded as Gurmat in the heart and soul of Nanak's tradition.

As a child I studied in a Convent School for 12 years. I spent 5 more studying the Holy Bible. Later,I spent almost a decade studying the Holy Koran. I have been blessed to have been born in a Sikh family and my reading of the Bible and Koran make me a better Sikh. Better Sikh because I now better appreciate what ' viraasat ' (legacy) the Gursikh has in the Holy Granth.

My biggest handicap is that the only language I know with any degree of competence is English: No Hindi, no Urdu, no Arabic, not even Gurmukhi. What little I know about the teachings of the Sikh Gurus' is either through translations or through listening to ' kathas '.

At this age, and especially at this stage of my life, I know enough about the Guru Granth Sahib. Enough to realize, for instance, what they mean when they say that a more evolved race, say the Germans, would have benefitted tenfold had Germany been home to the birth of the Granth Sahib. Enough to realize that the Granth Sahib is indeed the complete Guru, with the perfect precept for both materialistic and spiritualistic life. Enough to humbly appreciate the divine beauty and melody of the composition.

But that is not my point. What I am now looking to study is the notation, the construction and layout of the Guru Granth Sahib. I want to know, for instance, how someone could find the ' stanza or passage ' of their choice without knowing the page number in the Holy Granth. How, having found inspiration in a particular shabad-kirtan, I could locate the same ( lyrics ) in the Granth Sahib. In short, I would like to know the Granth Sahib so very thoroughly that I could write the software that I find missing on the Internet at present.

Waheguru Fateh !

 

[spnadmin]

But that is not my point. What I am now looking to study is the notation, the construction and layout of the Guru Granth Sahib. I want to know, for instance, how someone could find the ' stanza or passage ' of their choice without knowing the page number in the Holy Granth. How, having found inspiration in a particular shabad-kirtan, I could locate the same ( lyrics ) in the Granth Sahib. In short, I would like to know the Granth Sahib so very thoroughly that I could write the software that I find missing on the Internet at present.

Waheguru Fateh !

Rakhra ji

Thank you for clarifying your concerns. I have been locked out of the forum for a few hours because of a maintenance problem. And can only navigate partially at this time. Thus the delay in my reply.

Some of the answers to your questions can be found using gurbani search engines. The one that I use most often -- because it has most of the navigation tools that you have listed above -- is the one found at searchgurbani.org

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib can be searched by raag, by author (guru, bhagat, and sant), by page number, or by word and prhase (in English, Hindi, Transliteration, and Gurmukhi). The word and phrase search can be done using a variety of schemes including first letters of a word, by all the words, etc.) There is also an amrit kirtan section which can be searched. There are articles to provide background. And the site discusses the organization of the granth in one of its sections.

The location on the web is http://www.searchgurbani.org

Another favorite is is SikhiToTheMax which has a number of the same features. However the site is not as easy to figure out and the Gurmukhi fonts used are not standard fonts read by most web site servers.

Both searchgurbani.org and SikhiToTheMax have desktop versions. You can download the granth and search off-line.

 

[seeker3k]

IMHO Sikhs have failed on following counts :
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=7884 (Sikhs Failed to Follow and spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message)
1. They have yet to grasp the real Definition of God as described in MOOLMANTAR .<?"urn:fficeffice" />
It mean there is one God. The name (naam) is everlasting. One doer. He is not afraid. He have no enemy ( He also have no friend). He have no image. He is never born. He can be understood by the grace of guru. No where in the mool mantar it says the granth is guru.
. Guru’s parsad not elm. Parsad is given by guru on his own. When we ask any one guru or any one for any thing it is called begging. It is not parsad.
Maybe you should explain what u understand the meaning of mool mantar

2. They have failed to follow the real terminology of SHABAD ( WORD ) as Guru
<o> </o>
Shabad,mater,bani dhun naam. There are many names of same thing. How the naam can become guru? The naam has to be given by true guru. It is the vibration of this naam that become guru. There is no need for the guru to be alive. Ei:-
As the girl ger pregnant by husband so does the soul by guru’s given naam. It does not make any difference if the husband is alive or not for the child in the womb.
The naam have to be sat nam ever lasting Naam. That has to be given by true guru. It can not be asked. How can we know the true guru it is big question. Here it is how to know. If guru give naam to some one ans aske him/her to recite it every day and keep coming to him or mander,gurdwara then he is not a true guru. As I stated the need of husband is not needed for the child in the womb. Girl and boy don’t have to have sex to the child to grow in the womb. Same here if the naam is true it is not needed to be repeated. Or have to do karam kand to be saved. Those guru who ask him/her to keep coming and recite the naam is like homosexual act. It feel good but can not bare child.
Almost very negligible no of persons I have come across till today are clear about how Shabad ( Word / Gurbani ) is our Guru & how it can make us achieve the state of Living Emancipation ( Jiwan Mukt ) .
<o> </o>
What is jiwan mukat? Just like pregnant girl have to be care full what she eat and how she look after her body by not working hard jumping up and down while she is carriing the child in the womb. Same the person who have received naam have to live the live of good person.
<o> </o>
As a result the Sants , Babas etc step in to fill the gap whose only purpose is to fleece the gullible believers & make them worship himself only & not the LORD GOD .
<o> </o>
Can the worship of any person help to get jiwan mukat, no it does not. Can the worship of God needed to have jiwan mukat, no it does not. God do not need our worship. We only do it to satisfy our own ego that we worship God. As stated in mool mantar God do not have body that have heart. Worship affect the heart by emotion of worship.
3. The MODERN Sikhs have gone one step furthur again questioning the very baisis of Sikhism, its requirement in 21st century, they simply do not want to follow the tenants of Sikhism but keep criticizing all the beliefs of Sikhism while at the same time calling themselves as Sikhs.
<o> </o>
All religions are created by men for their own power and ego. Those who are preaching us to be in the religion are doing so for their own benefit not ours. We have been brainwashed for thousands of years to worship and be true believer of religion. Other wise we will burn in hell. They will do any thing to keep us in the religion. Even kill people or kill us to keep the religion alive.

4.The basic three pillars of Sikhism are
a. Kirat Karo ( Do honest labour )
b. Naam Japo ( Remember God )
c. Wand Chakko ( share your earnings )
<o> </o>
There is nothing wrong with these three pillars. It is good living. It is the basis of almost all religion. I say almost, there is a religion that doesn’t have that basis when it was started. The religion were needed when there was no law and order. The kings ruled and they did what they pleased. Public had no rights. Now most of the countries are democratic. They have the constitution that protect the public. There is no need for a religion. We have the vote that we can use to replace the leader that we don’t like. In religion the heads are appointed by just hand full people or by powerfull leader like Badal in <?xml::ffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Punjab appoint jethedar at akal takhat. They issue paid hukamnawas as they please. Very good example is the sitting one fllor for the langar. If all sit on chairs then all are equal. The reason hardliner give is at the time of guru sangat sat on floor so we should also sit on floor. There were no chairs then. Now we have chairs. Now people are disable too they have problem to sit on floor due to the problem with knees.

But Sikhs are all into external practices which are dogmatic heavily influenced by their sense of Ego & show off like Nagar Kirtans, Roadside lanagrs / Chabeels , Rumallas on SGGS , hiring expensive Raagis , Series of Akhand paaths , Building & Goldplating More Gurudwaras Hemkunt Yatras etc .
<o> </o>
We will give money to build new gurdwaras but will not give the money for library or education for the poor child. Most of us believe that if we give money to Gurdwaras the gurus will bless us.
Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=7884 (Sikhs Failed to Follow and spread Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Message)
5 . There is absolutely no effort on part of Sikhs to impart teachings of Sikhi , Gurmat/ SGGS to their children thinking it to be unnecessary . Mostly even they themselves are not attuned to the teachings of SGGS , Rehat Maryada etc .
6 . There has been absolutely no effort on part of Sikh institutions to translate SGGS into other languages of <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> starting with Hindi , English , Spanish , mandarin etc . There is no effort to make a consensus on which translations are treated as approved & start their use in daily Katha , Hukamnaamas . Nobody is ready to spend even single penny on translations whichever are done are with ill-intent under the influence of some sect , group which is actually a mistranslation done intentionally to create more confusion .
<o> </o>
I am in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> now visited many gurdwaras and other places. I see lot of curuption in all the places. No one is talking about the abuse. All I hear that this is <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> and it is the way here. The news paper Ajit is full of paid news. Most of the news are copied from other English news papers. News paper should be to bring the corruption out and guide the public. All the way from the panchyat to the CM. There are nagar kirtan and dharna every where. The trafit is blocked for no reason. No one willing to work for the living. They are looking for easy way to make money. The youths are turning to drugs n whisky. Most of the whisky shops are owned by the Akali dal party members. I have seen from the 50’s and now at the Anadpur on holi days The nahans drink bhang all over in that holly city. That is the example they are setting for the public.
.
In homes most of the men, boys are drinking whisky every night. I have seen boys 12 year old drink whisky with their father uncle.
<o> </o>
There is no spirituality left in religion. I see lot of hatred in <st1lace w:st="on">Punjab against the Hindus. Any thing comes from Hindu is always wrong. Many are talking about creating Khalstan. When I ask them to explain the working of the Khalistan they have no isea as to how it will work. All they are saying we will tell when we will get it. Simranjit Mann have the map of Khalistan drawn out with is most of haryana and Himachal should be included. Who will form the government and how. No one knows about it. Weather it be appointed by the Akal thakhat or by public vote. What will happen to Sikhs like me who are clean shaved. And the other Sikhs in other part of <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region> or in other countries.
<o> </o>
At the time of Nanak we all were Hindus. Our fore fathers were Hindus. If we hate our fore fathers we sure to be hated by our children.
Whan Nanak preached that place was called dera. He preached some thing that was missing in the religion of that time. Just look around is that thing is still in Sikhism or gone. Why people are going to sants or baba’s dera. Because they don’t see any value in the religion. Sikhism is full of karm kand which Nanak preached against.
Karm dharm na but puja, parbrahm bi jan duja. SGGS p 199
<o> </o>
I don’t see any karm kand Nanak Aproved. So why are we getting more n more into them? People argue that to keep the religion we must have some karam kand. If Nanak survived then I am sure we can too. Nanak and other gurus preached about naam simran. What was the naam they were talking about? Now we belive the whole SGGS is naam. That can not be. At the time of Nanak the SGGS was not in existence. When Nanak argue with the sidhs he told them this is guru is shabad ( naam) But no where in his bani he mention what naam is. He claim in many places in his bani that naam is given by true guru. As now we see fake guru babas. They are not worthy of giving the naam. People are looking for the naam what the Nanak talked about and the fake babas taking advantage of ignorant people. At Harmandir in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Amritsar I have seen the statue of Nanak being sold. People are buying them. In the plave of Alkal Takhet this is going on. We all are guilty of it. People buy pictures of gurus and other shaheeds to put them in their homes with pride. Don’t they know that all pictures of gurus are fake. Why are we letting people to sell them in the Harmander? Even in the web site there are pictures of gurus being posted. What are we doing?
There is no picture or statue of Mohammad any where in the world. That religion is flourishing in all part of the world.
<o> </o>
It is very hard to explain what is naam and how it work here in writing. It has to be explained in person. People who want naam are looking for it and they will be looking till the end of the world.
<o> </o>
Seeker3k
<o> </o>
<o> </o>