SALDEF Sikhs Barred From Oregon And Pennsylvania Schools

[KulwantK]

I thoroughly understand the sarcasm! Not to worry; I oftenly have the same reactions to the narrow-minded ones who would seek to impose their belief system on me.

I have been thinking about their actions for some time, and I think they act the way they do, political correctness and all, because deep down they are absolutely terrified.

Terrified of what, well, that could be a number of things! One thing they are terrified of is anyone who actually uses their mind in a creative fashion!

Yes, we can argue that Sikhs are mandated to wear the Kara, and Christians are not mandated to wear the cross, and so on and so forth. That is not the point.

The point is that your relationship with the Divine is your first, most intimate, most important and most all-encompassing aspect of your entire life, and if you make the choice to wear something - (yes, I know- Sikhs do not have the choice, so to speak, of whether or not to wear the Kara)- to celebrate and commemorate that, then that choice is your choice, it is up to you-it is not up to some beaureaucratic official as to whether or not you can or should. This is why I say it is ridiculous that the Sikh can wear the Kara but the Christian cannot wear the cross.

No, I don't think this is a Christian persecution complex thing at work here; I think the officials in question are savvy enough to realize they will get lots of unpleasant publicity heat on them if they try to say the Sikh cannot wear the Kara, so they are avoiding that one--for now.

There is an old saying: Once the camel gets his nose under the tent, you can bet the rest of him will follow. If these officials can get the Christian to keep from wearing the cross, how long before they tell the Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs they are not allowed to wear their items? I can guarantee you it would not be long at all.


Yes, we Sikhs are required to wear our Kakkars. On a personal spiritual level, how is that so different, in spirit, pardon the pun, but the phrase is applicable, from the Christian who feels so deeply about Jesus, he or she feels it is an important obligation for them to wear the cross? As for the cross being a grusome reminder, well, yes, it was the instrument of torture.

How many Sikhs, Christians, Jews, Hindus, and people of other faiths have endured grusome death and torture for their relationship with the Divine?

Isn't it interesting that there have been those ones who are so against people having their own relationship with the Divine that they are willing to perpetrate horrors upon them. Take a look at the numbers throughout history/herstory and what you will find is that the personal relationship with the Divine is one of the most powerful things in the world, and dictators and wanna-be dictators know that.

 

[JimRinX]

A very astute set of observations, KulwantK ji!
The only thing I can think of, in reply, would be to point out that we must never allow these more-than-just-judgemental types to drag us down to their own level - simply because they are afflicted by and/or unwilling to discard the kinds of feelings, fears, and twisted beliefs that you've so keenly alluded to!
One of us scolded me, because he thought that I was aying that Sikhism is not a 'progressive' religion; and though I was not 'dissing' the Sikhi - and he was thus overreacting to a perceived, but unreal, slight; I think there's a lesson here.
If ones desire to NOT break with Traditions - even ones as cherished as not cutting your hair or beard (I've adopted that one), wearing a Turban, etc. - are causing Pain, Strife, and Discord in the World around them; would it not be more 'progressive' - more 'compliant with the Gurus Teachings' - to reconsider the Wisdom of such an inflexible adherence to Orthodoxy?
Think about it!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

JimRinX says:

If ones desire to NOT break with Traditions - even ones as cherished as not cutting your hair or beard (I've adopted that one), wearing a Turban, etc. - are causing Pain, Strife, and Discord in the World around them; would it not be more 'progressive' - more 'compliant with the Gurus Teachings' - to reconsider the Wisdom of such an inflexible adherence to Orthodoxy

I suppose the answer to that would hinge on how central the physical appearance of the Sikh is to Sikhi, especially the 5 Ks. There are those these days who believe they are unimportant, that we need only accept the spiritual, non-material aspects and should let the rest go, as anachronistic in the 21st Century.

I disagree. These are more than just props, they are our identity. Each of the kakkars has a deeply spiritual meaning and purpose and well as a material meaning and purpose. One of the most difficult asprects of living as a Sikh, for me, involves handling (with some adeptness) both the spiritual and material simultaneously.

There are some teachings in every belief system that cannot be tampered with. I live in a society that long preached greed as a virtue - and now that society is paying a heavy price for that. I live in a society that glorifies the ego and raises me-me-me-me first and always to a virtue. I live in a society where sexual promiscuity is the norm. I live in a society where many if not most children lack a father, having only an absent sperm-donor. I live in a society that glorifies cruelty and violence. I could go on and on. My religion teaches me to avoid these things as evil. Certainly I am caused a certain amount of social pain for attempting to not indulge in these vices. Sikhi would not be Sikhi if the teachings against these vices were dropped. I would put our roop in the same category. Only the individual can decide if the price paid is worth whatever is gained.

Additionally, being a visible Sikh helps in making the individual strong. I well remember my high school days with the catty, rude comments about my unshaved legs and armpits and my somewhat mis-shapened eyebrows. I made the decision to maintain my appearance, I admit, as much out of stubbornness as devoutness. But whatever the reason, it strengthened me.

As those who know me know, that strength was tested in the Delhi Pogrom of 1984. My husband, my 13 year old son and my pregnant-with-twins self had to make a choice. Do we literally "cut-and-run" or do we stay and fight and probably achieve shaheedi? The Sikh roop was so central to who we are, that all of us stayed and fought and of the five of us, only I survived in physical form.

I know many these days argue exactly as you do, JinRikX, and they certainly have a right to their opinuion and to live their lives as they best see fit. If we throw out the outward appearance of ourselves, the inward will, in many (most?) of us dry up until we are left only with a philosophy, not a religion and way of life. I see being a Sikh as a 24/7/365 commitment. If I am not willing to make that commitment, there are many wonderful things to do with my life.

Being a Sikh isn't one of them.

(If I have not offended some of you, then I've been too mealy-mourthed and should rewrite this.) :u):

Chardi kala! :ice:

Mai Harinder Kaur

 

[JimRinX]

Mai Harinder Kaur ji
I can see your point; for though I've never personally been through anything as traumatic as the Dehli Pogrom (I do have some Dutch Jewish roots, lost a lot of Cousins to the NAZI Camps, and famillies like mine generally teach their children to prepare for 'the next one' by teaching us about the 'previous ones'), I would have - no doubt - been waiving my 'Sikh Flag High' (No Pun Intended; though I do like to wave my 'Freak Flag High' myself - if only so that the Hippie Chicks, with Hairy Armpits and Legs, will know I'm one of them!).
It saddens me to learn of your loses; just as it saddens me to have learned that the Mumbai Terrorists were retaliating against the BJP having destroyed a 15th C. Mosque - though it was only because of an open-minded Hindu (a Salon.com blogger) set up a posting about it, since CNN only wants WAR, WAR, WAR; and they're especially keen to leave out any details that might make Muslims look more 'Human' or, dare I say it, 'justified' in their actions.
This brings me back to my original point, though.
While you found - and find - Great Comfort in adhering to the 'Five K's'; it is both that adherence - and the adherence of those who attacked you (or the people of Mumbai) to a 'different' code of conduct/dress/ritual - that has set you at one anothers throats; because they so clearly define you as the 'hated other'.
I strive for World Peace through Understanding a Mutual Respect; and though it would be OK with me if everyone joined the Sikhi - or adpoted any of the Dharmic Beliefs, for that matter - I know that that is as unlikely to happen, as it would be wrong to try to MAKE THEM do so.
The more I, who started out a Catholic then became a Buddhist when I was 17, learn about Sikhism, the more respect I have for it's beautiful teachings - as they embody my own personal credo so well, that I will, from now on, always say that I, "Pave the Eightfold Path with bricks of Bodhi Dharma, Tao, Confucious, & The Wisdom of Guru Nanak!!!"
(Actually: I try to apply more wisdom to the task than just that - but then I'm such a bookworm!)
Finally: though I do not seek to judge or criticize you for how you chose to live, believe, or feel - as I cannot know your Pain (and I hope I never do!); I would, nonetheless, stress that while you, Mai ji, continue to seek solace in your Proud adherence to the 'Five K's' - that you also avoid, at all costs, the same pitfall that led those who harmed you so to see you as the Hated Other!
Actually, you being a Sikh, I probably didn't have to say that though; did I?
If you knew what the Christians - particularly the 'White Supremacists' ones - had done to me (they actually DID kill two people - one of them a Jewish friend of mine) over the last few years; then you'd be Proud of how, despite being encited to Violence countless times, strictly I Adhered to the Four Noble Truths!
But then nothing stymies a 'Bully' like the target who simply refuses to cooperate!

 

[spnadmin]

JimRinX ji,

I do think that Mai Harinder ji can relate very well to what you have reported. Very well.

And may have some words of wisdom to boot. :idea:

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

JimRinX Ji,

I see my dear friend Narayanjot Kaur ji wants me to add words of wisdom. LOL. I don't really have any right now beyond saying that it was neither our appearance as Sikhs with the 5Ks or even hatred of Sikhs that got us killed; it was the expediency of indira gandhi's Congress Party (political) with the aid of her (understandably) angry son, rajiv, that got us killed. Plus, of course, historically, the nehru/gandy family has always hated us Sikhs, as have many brahmins, as they see us as a a danger to their status in the caste system.

And the 5Ks are an integral part of being a Sikh and always will be. Without the 5Ks, we are simply not Sikh. How much do you know about the Miri/Piri (Temporal/Spiritual) interface which is at the heart of Sikhi? To me the 5Ks are the perfect example of that concept, the perfect intersection of Miri and Piri. (BTW, that has nothing to do with the young lady Miri on Star Trek who had such a fear of 'grups.')

I would like to hear the tale of the white supremacists' gross misdeeds. Please write about that. I assume that since you brought it up, you are able to write about it.

I have great respect for Taoism as taught by The Old Man; it has much in common with Sikhi in philosophy. Of course, Lao Tsu and his philosophy lacked Naam, which is the very soul of Sikhi. It's now a lovely summer Saturday evening and I'm done with "Deep Thoughts" for the time being.

And I will willingly die by torture or from boredom (sometimes harder to endure than torture) rather than remove my kakkars.

Chardi kala!

Mai :ice:

 

[JimRinX]

Mai ji
First let me warn you; some of the opinions that I'm about to express may irritate - even anger - many of you; but I'm compelled by my own personal relationship with the Divine One, to try and perform certain deeds that I agreed to at least try, in whatever small way that I might find to have been made available to me, to make happen.
The most Important of these deeds is to attempt to contribute to the Unification of ALL PEOPLE; by reminding everyone that we were ALL, at one time, A SINGLE TRIBE, with a single belief, a single pantheon, etc.; in the Name of Saving the Earth from our having been 'pooping where we eat' for far too long - as this can only be accomplished in such a manner.
And, you see, War, Strife, Conflict - no matter what there reason, purpose, or objective - all have way too Big of a Carbon Footprint!
Thus while I curse the British Cartographers who got YOU, the Kurds, the Marsh Arabs, the Palastinians, etc., into the MESS we're ALL IN; to harp on - let alone make war over - 'split milk', is an impulse we must all deny ourselves; even those who foment for 'Sikhistan Lost' (Surprised that a not-so-ignorant American even knows this stuff?).
Thus, now that you know just how 'Buddhist' my feelings are vis a vis conflict; who was really wrong? Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale or Indira Ghandi and the Congress Party?
Because I've always hoped that India would hold it together - for the good of all who call themselves Indians (I HATE the Partition! Look what it's brought us!); I'm going to (be Politically Correct ala SPN) and say that they both wrong, wrong, wrong - since it was people like YOU, Mai ji, who lost, while NOBODY who was invloved in the whole mess won anything at all!!!
As far as the 5 K's are concerned; I just re-read the Sikhipedia entry (I did study Sikhism before joining SPN; but it's all still rather new to me), and I once again see the Beauty in the Symbolism of these Customs; but then I've always, quite instinctively, felt it wrong to cut my own hair - despite the red-necks and their, "Was that a Man or a Woman....." BS!
Mines just comming back to shoulder length, after my having had Surgery to remove a Cyst from my Brain in 2007.
Piri/Miri actually sounds kind of strange - coming from Sikhs who are so adamant about their abhorance of a 'Priest Class'; but since Sikhism developed in a Monarchical World, and you wanted your Best and Most Enlightened to be Respected Leaders - again, the symbolism is appropriate.
But it's just that: symbolism. And symbolism is not worth Hating, Fighting, Killing, or Dying for!!! Neither are lines on a Map - especially not when, if the Earth DIES, the space between them will become unihabitable!
In the Sikh world, I know, fighting has often been unavoidable acts of self-preservation; so please don't think that I'm being overly critical; I'm mostly Germanic (Low), and to use a Star Trek reference of my own (The Andoran Ambassador), "My People are a very war-like people."
As for Tao; I've always believed that the all-infusing, all-aware, all-encompassing 'thing' that Lao Tsu was alluding to, is Naam.
Would not Naam - like a Rose, by any other name, not smell as sweet?
It's ALL Energy Fields, Mai ji; why, my right hand only fails to pass clean through my left one for the same reason we can't push the North Poles of two magnets together!
That God, Naam, Allah, whatever Exists - that it might have layed all of this out for the edification of us 'pupal souls'; it doesn't sound so unlikely when one looks at it that way. (I've been bantering with Atheist Scientists and Christopher Hitchens-types!)
As far as the 'Mighty Whities' are concerned....WHEW! That was a CLOSE ONE (they tried to get ME killed by Black People, by making it look like I killed a Mentally Retarded Black Girl!); and it's not over yet!
All this happened in 2003 - and I haven't really even begun to mess with them back; though, this time (I, and my Mom, started this fight in 1982!), with 'W' and (former USAG and former Ku Klux Klansman) John Ashcroft on their side - I may not get a very satisfying return from my counter-Klan attack efforts; as they've already raided my Personal Files and Safe Deposit Box to steal my (largely documentary) evidence of their own wrong-doing.
They may have even destroyed the evidence of my having gotten an Air Force SSgt Court Marshalled, in 1982, for trying to force me and his son (one of my best friends, at the time) to join 'The JUNIOR KKK'!!!
Damn the Patriot Act!!! I KNEW that if the Grandson of an unabashed NAZI sympathizer (Prescott Bush, Sr.) - not to mention a former Klansman as ODIOUS as Ashcroft - ever got ahold of that kind of Power, that there'd be hell to pay for anti-Klan, pro-Civil Rights activists like me!
They hate me even more, because I'm White - like them! They say that, with my complexion and red beard, I'm their 'Model Super Human' (such recruitment tactics!); so I tell them, "SUPER, Maaaan! NOW, since you look up to me so; stop being such a bunch of racist red-necked jerks! Hatered and Violence are INFERIOR Traits, worthy only of Untermennen!" (Remember your friend, JimRinX, the next time someone calls you a 'Towel Head' - or a 'Sand N-word'!)
I haven't begin to litigate this - yet; so I'm going to leave it at that, for now - even though I KNOW that THEY already know all about whatever evidence that I have to use against them; why else would they have raided my Files?!?

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Dear JimRinX ji -

Neither irritated nor angered. You are most definitely entitled to your own thoughts and ideas. Obviously you have thought/meditated on these ideas a lot.

I am not inspired to answer point by point right now and perhaps a thread in another forum would be more appropriate anyway.

I do have one question. What does Miri/Piri have to do with a priestly class or a monarchial system? I think your understanding of that concept is different from mine.

Thus, now that you know just how 'Buddhist' my feelings are vis a vis conflict; who was really wrong? Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale or Indira Ghandi and the Congress Party?
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24950 (Sikhs Barred from Oregon and Pennsylvania Schools)
Because I've always hoped that India would hold it together - for the good of all who call themselves Indians (I HATE the Partition! Look what it's brought us!); I'm going to (be Politically Correct ala SPN) and say that they both wrong, wrong, wrong - since it was people like YOU, Mai ji, who lost, while NOBODY who was invloved in the whole mess won anything at all!!!

I love your passion and feel the need to correct you on one point. Yes, I lost a great deal - and I gained even more. The person I was on 31 October 1984 was a happy, good (whatever that means) person, a devout Sikh and all sorts of nice things. That person, however, lacked depth and strength. I hardly recognise that young woman who went into battle "already dead." She seems somehow lacking to me. (Is it from "The Art of War" that "The superior soldier goes into battlke already dead"?) I got tremendous growth from that experience. As hard as it was, I know of no other way that I could have learned what I now know. That lesson was continued and further deepened by the massive stroke I had in 2006 that left me physically incapacitated. I deeply dislike Nietzsche, but he did say one thing that applies to me :"What does not destroy me strengthens me." I am not destroyed; I am strong. And growing stronger.

Your fight against nasty nazi types in most interesting. I'm glad you're still alive. Keep up the chardi kala to resist them and their evil, please.

I love our differences, our diversity. I enjoy living on a planet with many different people with many different. even conflicting, ideas. What we need is to learn to enjoy these differences instead of fighting about them. One of my stranger - and I believe, more advanced - traits is that I feel no need to have others agree with my ideas and/or beliefs. This especially confuses and bemuses Christians and Muslims. Such fun!

Now, I hope you do not think I am just being a Tellerite. ("Tellerites do not argue for a reason. They simply argue." - Obligatory Star Trek quote.) I hope I have made one or two valid points.

BTW, while some nasties have, indeed, attempted to murder me, no on has EVER had the nerve to call me a towelhead or a sand-n*gger to my face!

Chardi kala!

Mai :ice:

 

[JimRinX]

Mai ji
It's good to hear you say that it made you stronger and, hopefully, not as bitter as many would have become.
This may seem to digress from the subject of this thread to some; but for me it's appropriate because, though I never want to see anyone - Sikh, or otherwise - be made to demean themselves of their beliefs for nearly any reason, I'm nonetheless fascinated to see, and learn how, Sikhs have been dealing with one of the unfortunate consequences of our Great Experiment in Melting-pot-ism.
I believe that the Bill of Rights, the first ten (or so) Ammendments of the American Constitution - which give both the Freedom to practice whatever Faith one choses, or none at all, by preventing the State from 'Establishing' one Religion over another - is one of THE Great Works of Political Thinking.
Unfortunately; Being absolutely forbiden to "Establish" a Religion, means - at least in the things that Government deals with (Drivers Licenses & Public Schools Included!) - the Government MUST NOT give in to the urge to allow anything to happen, during these activities or procedures that are sponsored or run by said Government, that might be perceived as favoring one Belief over another.
Once THAT Cat got out of the bag.....what next? The Grand Inquisitor of The United States summoning us to the State Torture Chambers? Do you think Joe McCarthy would have minded - if we'd let him? Look at how the Catholic handled the Sex Scandal - would you want to see that kind of thing permeating all of Officialdom?
You see, in European History, is has done just that; and it's because the Founding Fathers knew this that they made these Laws - not to tick Sikhs off.
Though I've only lost loved ones through Cancer, etc., I too have had Brain Trauma; as a Cyst broke through my brain pan in 2007, and I awoke from Surgery completely paralyzed on my Left side.
This was bad, as my Neuropathy (the Painful kind) had already been slowly paralyzing my Right hand for years, and without a Lefty......
Fortunately, a little Medicine Buddha Mantra-ing, a little stubborness (I fell and jerked the drain tube out of my SKULL, trying to get to the john myslef! Now that's what I call STUBBORN!), and some cashing in of my Good Karma, and the full use of my left limbs came back; though I do have to take Dilantin for Seizures from now on.
What I'm looking forward to, after I fix my legal problems (and a very broken FBI!), is the New Dawn of the Medical Marijuana Movement here in the USA; as Obama has told the DEA to get off our back.
You see, I QUIT Oxycontin and METHADONE - YES, I said Methadone (the hardest Drug to quit, ever!) - by replacing them with Good Old Pot; which is so much easier on ones systems, has almost NO side effects, and doesn't (Ahem) take away that part of me that NO MAN wants to lose - like Methadone surely does; though I had to go back on this nasty stuff because messing with me on that one, without a more 'solid' footing under Federal Law (Oregon has a State Law allowing it - but that doesn't matter to the Fed, if they wanna get at ya), was 'low hanging fruit' for the NAZI's I mentioned.
Someday it'll be 'safe' for me to wear my 'Handicapped' T-shirt again - the one were the wheelchair has morphed into an easy chair, and the guy in it is smoking a bong and watching TV!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Dear JimrinX,

Bitterness is poison. Like resentment, it would be like my taking poison, expecting it to kill those who hurt me.

I hold with the belief that everything is the Hukam of Vaheguru (the Will of God, sort of). I have thrice in my life been shown the absolute perfection of...everything, that everything is exactly the way way it must be! That includes my need to make things better as a social activist. Please do not think that I want you tobelieve in this because of my experience. If you have not experienced it yoourself, it would be terribly confusing. Anyway knowledge (which cannot be found in Maya) is above belief, which can be dangerous. (Def: Maya: anything that seems to separate us from Akaakl Purakh. I'm using that definition. There are others.)

This church and state thing in America seems to depend on who you're talking to. Pat Robertson :}--}: and that guy whose name eludes me right now, the new Senator from that northern midwest state, the liberal Democrat, you know who I mean, have diametrically opposed views on what it means. (I can see his face. WHAT IS HIS NAME? This is driving me crazy.)

I am overjoyed that you left side came back. How is your right hand? I have always been grateful that it was my left side and not the right that got cripped. AL FRANKEN. The mind is truly mysterious.

As to medical marijuana, I am in favour of legalisation. As for marijuana itself., I have long been for decriminalisation. Not that I would use it; as a Khalsa ,I eschew all intoxicants, especially those that are smoked. My doctor keeps trying to get me to use hydrocodone and even oxycodone, if hydro- doesn't work, for my arthritic knee. I flat refuse, usine only the occasional Tylenol 3 (codeine) when the pain keeps me awake for several nights. If this means some days I can't walk, well, I can neither pray nor meditate on intoxicants. Even caffeine affects me. And I dislike being stoned. I haven't seen the morphed handicapped sign. I can picture it, though. It is hilarious.

Dog walking time.

Chardi kala! :ice:

Mai

 

[spnadmin]

Al Franken ji

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Narayanjotji -
Er, yeah. My mind got stuck on Barney Frank, for some reason. And I've been a Al Franken fan since the 1970s!

Chardi kala! :ice:

 

[spnadmin]

Narayanjotji -
Er, yeah. My mind got stuck on Barney Frank, for some reason. And I've been a Al Franken fan since the 1970s!

Chardi kala! :ice:

Me too! Especially those skits where he is a reporter and is wearing a satellite dish -- in a lightening storm, or filming a Mafia operation in plain view, and many other zany arrangements.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

I remember him best as half of Franken and Davis on SNL. I was sad when they broke up. :8- OK, not quite THAT sad. :{-

CK! :ice:

 

[spnadmin]

Franken and Davis was the team that did the news programs. Davis would be in the studio with live feed to Franken with the high tech equipment on the scene. But there was always something ridiculous going on -- for example, setting up a satellite dish on a road near the ocean in order to keep tabs on a hurricane during 145 mph gusts.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Pennsylvania seemed a little extreme about this religion in law stuff. This just appeared in my inbox:

NEW NATIONAL PETITION to stop banning the name of Jesus in Pennsylvania State-House prayers. Please click, sign, WE WILL FAX your petition automatically to all 253 Pennsylvania Senators and Representatives (saving you hours of labor!)
BREAKING NEWS: Pennsylvania House Speaker bans Jesus Christ from prayers. Heroic Pastor Censored. California City also debates vote to ban Jesus from prayers. "California, Stand Up For Jesus!" State-wide Prayer Rally 5 Aug, 6pm in Lodi, CA.
Dear Friends,
The right to pray publicly "in Jesus name" is under new attack in Pennsylvania and again in California. Please let me explain to you exactly what terrible events just transpired...
The Democrat Speaker of the Pennsylvania House Keith R. McCall has just issued (and enforced) a policy which bans the name of Jesus Christ as illegal speech that may not be uttered during voluntary prayers spoken before the Pennsylvania state legislature.
Pastor Gerry Stoltzfoos of Freedom Valley Worship Center in Adams County, PA had been invited to pray the invocation at the State-House on June 30th, but McCall's office insisted on previewing and censoring a written copy of the prayer beforehand.
"I wrote the prayer and sent it to them and they sent back a very short rejection notice," Pastor Stoltzfoos told reporters from One News Now. "So I wrote back, 'I'm curious as to why.' And they said it had an offensive word. 'Can you tell me what the word was?' And they came back and said 'Jesus.'" Stoltzfoos says he prays in Jesus' name because Jesus instructed him to do so in the Bible. In John 14, 15, and 16, Jesus said three times, "the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." Colossians 3:17 says, "whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus."
McCall's office then refused to allow Stoltzfoos to say the prayer before the legislature. The Democrat's staff told the pastor that Speaker McCall was afraid of lawsuit by atheist groups.
So let's take action...
PLEASE CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE'LL AUTOMATICALLY FAX YOUR PERSONALIZED PETITION TO ALL 253 MEMBERS OF THE PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE AND SENATE, DEMANDING THEY PROTECT FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGION.
Dear friends, you have stood beside me, to fight battles across the country defending the right to pray publicly "in Jesus name." Together we petitioned and won in the U.S. Congress for military chaplains. We have petitioned and reversed anti-Jesus policies in Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon. You and I have won court victories in Indiana for the right to pray in Jesus' name. We've held 1000+ person rallies in Florida and Virginia, defending hospital and police chaplains. We have stopped (thus far) the anti-Jesus Judge Hamilton by filibuster with nearly 700,000 faxes to the Senate. You made a difference, in Jesus name. But now the anti-Jesus battle has come to Pennsylvania, and I cannot overstate your importance on our team.
MCCALL'S SPOKESMAN MISQUOTES THE LAW:
Penn. Speaker McCall spokesman Bob Caton told the York Daily Record (after silencing Pastor Stoltzfoos from saying "Jesus"), "It is not an attempt to silence religious leaders, but rather an effort to prevent taxpayers from having to foot the bill of a lawsuit if someone objects to a prayer's contents and chooses to sue the state." He did not admit that if atheist groups sue, the Alliance Defense Fund has offered pro-bono legal defense of Christian prayers before any legislature, at zero tax-payer expense.
"Unfortunately, it's because states like Indiana and Ohio have been sued," Caton misled. "We've followed the example that unfortunately was set in other places. We're bringing Pennsylvania's practices in line with what other states have done."
Actually, Indiana and Ohio have done the opposite. When sued by atheists to ban Jesus prayers, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals bravely ruled to reverse an anti-Jesus ban, and restored pastors right to pray "in Jesus name" in the Indiana legislature. (I know, because my lawyers and I personally advised the Indiana Attorney General who successfully appealed Hinrichs v. Bosma and WE WON a 2-1 appeals court ruling reversing the anti-Jesus policy).
And when the Ohio Speaker Jon Husted had temporarily mollified Democrat complainers by issuing an anti-Jesus prayer policy in 2007, I flew to Ohio and helped the Ohio Christian Alliance mobilize pastors to phone their legislators. So many citizens called to demand free speech, that Speaker Husted bravely reversed his temporary ban, restoring the rights of pastors to pray "in Jesus name" in the Ohio State House. Now in Pennsylvania, Speaker McCall is doing the opposite of what other states and courts have directed.
PLEASE CLICK HERE TO SIGN PETITION, AND WE'LL AUTOMATICALLY FAX YOUR PERSONALIZED PETITION TO ALL 253 MEMBERS OF THE PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE AND SENATE, DEMANDING THEY PROTECT FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGION

I'm sure I don't know what to make of this. How/If this will affect visible Sikhs wanting to teach in public schools, I have no idea. It is interesting, though, at least to me. The name "Jesus" as offensive seems simply nutty to me.

Chardi kala! :ice:

Mai Harinder Kaur

 

[spnadmin]

Mai ji

I doubt that it will have any effect at all on the topic we are discussing -- wearing religious garb (turban or kirpan) and symbols (a cross or star of David) by an employee of a state agency in Oregon or Pennsylvania (in schools, police departments, state level courts, etc.)-- as a Sikh or as a member of any other religion. The ban applies to everyone not just Sikhs. And the ban is included as part of the School Code in PA. I don' see anything related to schools or the school code in this petition. It appears to be about prayers before the state legislature.

There may be a long-term impact on the saying of prayers in schools, but none on the wearing of religious garb or symbols.

 

[spnadmin]

Here is an old 2003 case. A teacher's aide was suspended for wearing a cross.

ACLJ Files Federal Lawsuit Against PA School Agency after Teacher's Aide Suspended for Wearing Cross.



Link to this page
<a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/ACLJ+Files+Federal+Lawsuit+Against+PA+School+Agency+after+Teacher%27s...-a0101279461">ACLJ Files Federal Lawsuit Against PA School Agency after Teacher's Aide Suspended for Wearing Cross.</a>
Business Editors/Legal Writers

PITTSBURGH--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 6, 2003

The American Center The American Center is a high-rise tower in Southfield, Michigan. It was built in 1975 and stands at 26 floors, with one basement floor, for a total of 27.

The building's main use is that of a typical office tower. It also includes a parking garage and retail spaces. for Law and Justice, an international public interest law firm specializing in constitutional law, today filed a federal lawsuit against an educational agency in Western Pennsylvania Western Pennsylvania consists of the western third of the state of Pennsylvania in the United States.

Pittsburgh is the largest city in the region, with a metropolitan area of about 2.4 million people, and is the cultural center for Western Pennsylvania. after officials suspended an employee - a teacher's aide "Teacher's Aide" is an episode of the television series The New Twilight Zone. Cast

• Miss Peters: Adrienne Barbeau
• Wizard: Adam Postil
• Trojan: Miguel Nunez, Jr.

for wearing a cross pendant on her necklace.

"The actions taken by this agency represent a serious violation of our client's constitutional rights," said Vincent McCarthy, Senior Counsel of the ACLJ ACLJ American Center for Law and Justice

ACLJ Appleseed Center for Law and Justice (Washington, DC) , which is representing the teacher's aide. "The law is very clear on this issue - school personnel do not shed their constitutional freedoms when they enter the school house door. To punish a teacher's aide for merely expressing her free speech rights is not only wrong, but unconstitutional. We're confident that the court will correct this injustice and protect the First Amendment rights of our client."

The ACLJ today filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Pittsburgh, PA on behalf of Brenda Nichol, a teacher's aide from Glen Campbell For the town in Clearfield County, Pennsylvania, see .

Adams County

• Adams Central Community Schools – Web site

and Armstrong Counties.

Nichol works as an Instructional Assistant in the Penns Manor Area Elementary School in Clymer, PA and, according to the suit, was notified by ARIN officials last month that a one-and-a-quarter inch cross pendant that she had been wearing on her necklace would either have to be concealed by clothing or removed. ARIN officials contend the cross pendant violates their policy and the state's religious garb prohibition of the Pennsylvania Public School Code that dates back to 1895.

The complaint contends that Nichol told ARIN officials that the cross is a symbol of her religious faith and to remove it or conceal it would violate her religious beliefs. Nichol was initially suspended from her job on April 8th and was notified on April 16th that her suspension would be for one year without pay.

The suit names as defendants ARIN Intermediate Unit 28, its executive director and several other supervisors. The suit contends that the actions of the agency violate the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution and Pennsylvania law including the state's Religious Freedom Protection Act. Nichol also will file a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and will pursue charges that the suspension violated federal law.

The suit requests that the court declare ARIN's policy and the state's religious garb prohibition to be unconstitutional and requests that the court issue injunctive relief injunctive relief n. a court-ordered act or prohibition against an act or condition which has been requested, and sometimes granted, in a petition to the court for an injunction. - prohibiting ARIN from continuing its discriminatory action, restoring Nichol's employment, and removing the suspension from her employment record.

"There is nothing wrong with Brenda Nichol wearing a cross pendant to work," said McCarthy. "This is a legitimate desire to exercise her deeply held religious beliefs in a manner that is consistent with both state and federal law. To be suspended for wearing a cross pendant to work represents religious discrimination that violates the constitutional rights of our client."

The ACLJ is being assisted in the case by attorney Joseph L. Luciana, III of the Pittsburgh firm, Kirkpatrick & Lockhart, LLP LLP - Lower Layer Protocol .

The American Center for Law and Justice is an international public interest law firm specializing in constitutional law and religious liberty work. The ACLJ is headquartered in Virginia Beach, VA and its web site address is ACLJ &bull; American Center for Law & Justice.

Source ACLJ Files Federal Lawsuit Against PA School Agency after Teacher's Aide Suspended for Wearing Cross. - Free Online Library


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Note: The 3rd Circuit Court (Federal Level) eventually ruled in favor of the teacher's aid. Her suspension was overturned. But ONLY because as a t"eacher's aide" she was not considered a "teacher" according to the School Code. The School Code prohibition against religious garb, symbols, jewelry that identify a person as a member of a religion stands to this day.

 

[spnadmin]

This is the actual wording from the PA School Code

The Pennsylvania School Code’s Garb Statute provides as follows:
Religious garb, insignia, etc., prohibited; penalty

(a) That no teacher in any public school shall wear in said school or while
engaged in the performance of his duty as such teacher any dress, mark, emblem or
insignia indicating the fact that such teacher is a member or adherent of any religious
order, sect or denomination.

(b) Any teacher employed in any of the public schools of this
Commonwealth, who violates the provisions of this section, shall be suspended from
employment in such school for the term of one year, and in case of a second offense
by the same teacher he shall be permanently disqualified from teaching in said
school. Any public school director who after notice of any such violation fails to
comply with the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon
conviction of the first offense, shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding one
hundred dollars ($100), and on conviction of a second offense, the offending school
director shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding one hundred dollars ($100)
and shall be deprived of his office as a public school director. A person thus twice
convicted shall not be eligible to appointment or election as a director of any public
school in this Commonwealth within a period of five (5) years from the date of his
second conviction.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Narayanjot Ji,

Many thanks for the information. This actuallt seems to be a criminal offense...

Any public school director who after notice of any such violation fails to
comply with the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon
conviction of the first offense, shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding one hundred dollars ($100), and on conviction of a second offense, the offending school
director shall be sentenced to pay a fine not exceeding one hundred dollars ($100)

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24950 (Sikhs Barred from Oregon and Pennsylvania Schools)
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=24950 (Sikhs Barred from Oregon and Pennsylvania Schools)

I actually think this is more indicative of an attitude than of specific cases, whether in school or praying in the legislature.

Actually, my experience with government is that I would accept prayers to any concept of the Deity as a possible improvement.

Chardi kala! :ice: