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UK Sikhs Against EDL to Join Cambridge Protest

Discussion in 'Breaking News' started by spnadmin, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Sikhs Against EDL to join Cambridge protest

    http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/10223830.Sikhs_Against_EDL_to_join_Cambridge_protest/

    The ‘Sikhs Against the EDL’ have announced they will be joining an anti-racism protest to be held in Cambridge.

    They will join with members of the Cambridge Unite Against Fascism (CUAF) as English Defence League (EDL) hold a protest in Cambridge on Saturday 23 February.

    Initially the EDL intended to hold a march but now have announced to hold only a static protest.

    This would be the second time the EDL would be turning up in Cambridge in two years.

    The last time, in July 2011, when they attempted to march to protest against a mosque some 2,000 anti-racists blocked the streets of Cambridge.

    The EDL were able to muster only 200. The counter protest then was also called by Cambridge UAF and led by Kick Racism Out of Football and Cambridge Fans United.

    The ‘Sikhs Against the EDL’ group was formed two and half years ago in response to some mis-guided Sikh youth then supporting the EDL.

    They also used to carry Sikh flag on the EDL marches and use Sikh insignia and emblems in their anti-Muslim propaganda.

    However, most of those Sikh youth have since left the EDL, largely due to the campaign led by the Sikhs Against the EDL.

    Balwinder Singh Rana, spokesperson for Sikhs Against the EDL, said, “We must keep up the pressure and we must keep showing solidarity with all anti-racists and Muslim brothers and sisters. The EDL may have been wounded but they have not yet been defeated.”

    “In the current economic climate with mass unemployment and austerity the racists will always try to blame the minorities for all the problems. And when they go looking for scapegoats we are an easily identifiable target. They would also try to divide our communities to turn us against each other. "But now is the time for all minorities and white anti-racists to unite together and show to these racists that they would not win.”
     
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  3. Awakeand Singh

    Awakeand Singh United States
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  4. findingmyway

    findingmyway
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    The EDL is a far right group who are very rascist. They are currently trying to divide and rule by pitting Sikhs against Muslims
     
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  5. yummy

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    It may appear like this however, as findingmyway writes, this is a right wing group who spew nothing but hatred and intend to create divisions between groups.

    It's not just Muslims who they seem to have a problem with. There are comments from those who have attended their demonstrations where they have also abused members of the Sikh and Hindu community.

    Here's some direct links posted by Sikhs Against The EDL on their facebook page:

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....130968993633000.25533.102679703128596&type=1

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...33000.25533.102679703128596&type=1&permPage=1

    And reports of them attacking a mandir:

    http://uaf.org.uk/2010/07/edl-attack-on-dudley-hindu-temple-confirmed/

    Neither of these have anything to do with Islam yet the EDL felt it was okay to abuse them? Whilst they may say their agenda is against Islamic extremism, if there really was any truth in that, why have they attacked a mandir?

    Having physically seen some of their demonstrations, I have heard regular use of the word "P*k*" which is a derogatory term towards anyone of South Asian descent.

    These aren't one off incidents either, these are regular occurrences at each of their demonstrations. If they were true to their words and fighting extremist Islam, I'd question how they are able to justify such actions.
     
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  6. Awakeand Singh

    Awakeand Singh United States
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    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/480-fake-edl-group-appears-on-facebook-february-2011
    http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/80-anglophobia-or-islamophobia-whats-the-real-problem

    Just a random search turned up these two. There are more, and the general tone of the site really appears much more inclusive than not.

    As members of any group will (hopefully) readily attest, almost all demonstrations for any cause whatever are marred by the presence of outside agitators who try to co-opt the demonstration for their own agenda. I have observed this myself on many occasions, and I don't suppose the EDL is immune from the phenomenon either.
    While I'm not saying I support them - although what I've seen of their website appears to make no small degree of good sense - I think it prudent to give the benefit of the doubt, just as Sikhs wouldn't care to be judged by the general public's perception of some of the more notorious members of the Qaum.
     
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  7. Awakeand Singh

    Awakeand Singh United States
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    At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing from a representative of the EDL's Sikh division.
    Any takers?
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Awakenand Singh ji

    It is commendable of you to seek a balanced view and call for equal time by EDL members who might be Sikhs. Let me throw out one theory why you find the web sites inclusive and even tolerable. If EDL were to publish its working agenda on the Internet, the sites would be taken down, the owners of the host servers given legal notice, and the site managers possibly cooling their heels for a time in the NIC(k) There is a huge bandwidth of media freedom in the UK, but little tolerance when the peep of a suggestion of law-breaking is heard on the net. What you get instead is a plausible invitation to join a cause. Wbat happens on the street looks entirely different.
     
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  9. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Please remember that this is a Sikh forum and Sikhs are your hosts. Your visit should reflect that awareness. If you come to my house and you start to pick a fight, I will ask you to regain your senses.

    You have taken plenty of rope to make your point. Now I am reeling you in.

    On the topic of the thread it has already been made abundantly clear that Muslims, Hindus, Indians, Pakistanis, and many citizens of UK, be they immigrant or other, have problems with the activities of this organization the EDL This thread is not about the shortcomings of Sikhs. We have plenty of threads about that at SPN.
     
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    #8 spnadmin, Feb 18, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  10. findingmyway

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    Some reports for your consideration from a very reputable broadsheet newspaper:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/11/english-defence-league-chaotic-alliance






    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/28/english-defence-league-guardian-investigation





    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...ue-coordinator-kurtis-cawley-100252-30354474/


    Why support a group that tars all Muslims with the brush of extremism. Why tolerate hatred and intimidation of any kind. Awakeand Singh ji, if you have any doubt please come to the UK yourself. Please also refer to other threads related to the EDL on SPN.
     
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  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    my enemies enemy, is my friend?

    what if you have no enemies
     
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  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    One can always fall back on the Original Five "enemies"..??? They are always there ..No ??

    We Sikhs have even amde up enemies for our GURUS..by claiming HE wrote this..Benti Chaupaii.. of Charitar 403 DG.
     
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  13. Awakeand Singh

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    (sigh) It's been pointed out that here in the Middle East the enemy of my enemy ... is also my enemy!

    I was attempting to point out that what may begin as a valid and worthy cause can be co-opted by others with somewhat different agendas. This is hardly spot news, and I've seen it happen many times. Having worked in media, I have observed how hate speech (and action) is selectively condemned, depending on the political proclivities of those who make editorial policy. The Guardian is a good example on the left side of the divide, but hardly the only one.

    On the issue of the EDL, I defer to those in the UK who are more aware of the actual situation on the ground. I ask the same indulgence when the topic may turn to the situation in my present place of residence.
    "Picking a fight" was the last thing on my mind. Generating discussion was more like it. If there's unanimity of opinion on this issue here at SPN, I guess free discussion isn't possible, and I shall have to gather a fuller spectrum of information elsewhere. This would suggest to me that the SPN membership as a whole considers the EDL's stated cause itself invalid and unworthy. As I see their mission statement calling for mutual respect and the right to peacefully express one's beliefs within the greater framework of British society, I figured that this was a message that would resonate with the Sikh philosophy - at least enough to pause to consider.

    Please don't consider me an enemy for doing no more than pointing out that there may be more than one side to an issue - without having even expressed which side I favor!
     
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    #12 Awakeand Singh, Feb 18, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  14. Harry Haller

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    Awakeandji

    No one considers you an enemy brother, I enjoy your posts and your point of view, we all get posts pulled by Adminji, myself included, it is normally to keep the thread on topic, rather than censorship.
     
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  15. Awakeand Singh

    Awakeand Singh United States
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    Harry ji,

    Keeping you busy in the shop today, eh?:grinningkaur:

    If there's one thing I've learned, over the years, it's that if I want to connect with my interlocutor, I have to understand his/her point of view to the point where I can also comprehend why he/she feels that way. This includes those who may consider themselves my enemy. The essence of discussion is the ability to listen to the opposing party's view, rather than just wait for the next opportunity to throw in my own two cents (tuppence for you lot across the pond; the "pond" in question being the Mediterranean). I suggest that the most effective way to de-fang an enemy is to show that I don't regard him and his idea as one and the same. My own concepts have changed many times, based on new information and my own personal growth. I attempt to give others the same benefit of the doubt (when I'm thinking straight!).
     
  16. Tejwant Singh

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    One who practices being Nirbhau, Nirvair does not have enemies because the result of this practice breeds love, and acceptance which teaches us to eradicate enmity from the within. That is the reason Gurbani gives us the tools to become lotuses, rise above the cesspools of life, unblemished; and spread the fragrance in all directions to all, sans bias no matter what.

    Talking about EDL, we have a thread here which I would request the Admins to locate it. It is about a Sikh or a pretend Sikh who came here and talked about being the member of EDL and other things. I went to the EDL site, became a member with my name and called him off. Since that time, they have closed that site and opened a new one. All the past posts have been removed or archived but one has to become the member again.

    Hatred is hatred whether it is against women, turban wearing people, people of brown color as Jesus was, all others who are not ashen white or of different sexual orientations.

    Sikhi's core principle is to fight against the tyranny and injustice so that our society as a whole can become wholesome. EDL's agenda is to be violent against all who are not white and we all know on which side the skinheads are. We are all Pakis to them which is a very common slur sprouting out of ignorance laced with hatred.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  17. findingmyway

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    Awakened Singh ji,
    Almost every person on this thread has some connection to the UK. We are all independent observers unconnected to each other in real life and yet we all have the same observations. Rather than interpreting that as lack of free speech, does it not give you a better insight into the EDL from people with personal dealings rather than relying on their official website?! Working in the media, you are intelligent enough to know how much things can be sugar coated and how important marketing is. In local elections 2 years ago, the EDL stood as a political party so of course they are not going to be as forthright as they have been in the past! If they stated their true racist beliefs they would have been banned as a political party. It is important to look past the official blurb and not easily discount the opinions of those who speak against as they do so from experience. The origins of the EDL are explained in one of the links I previously posted. It is a reaction to racial segregation in Luton. They are not promoting unity but stemmed from seeking revenge for hurt feelings. They never target just Muslim extremists as their official documentation states but tar all 'immigrants' with the same brush. This is not a few of them but the main body of the group. I remember the incident that Tejwant ji refers to very well but can't seem to find the thread. Please visit their chatrooms yourself to understand the hatred that spews forth. I would be interested in hearing your opinion once you have been there. Finally, the Guardian is not the only paper to speak out against the EDL. Every major newspaper in the UK has spoken out. I challenge you to find a single positive article about the EDL in any mainstream UK paper, left or right wing.

    Here is some more information for your review.
    http://www.turbancampaign.com/updates
     
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  18. yummy

    yummy
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    Although I’m not a regular poster, I’ve been a 'lurker' for a very long time (most of it when I was researching Sikhi) and I would say that SPN is the best Sikh forum I’ve been on simply because it allows far more open discussion and you get to see both sides. And from the posts I’ve read and my own experience, it’s a site where people on here go out of their way to help you.

    You pointed out the The Guardian is a left wing newspaper, which in my opinion, implies that naturally they would write negative articles on EDL. So what about the Telegraph – they are a right wing newspaper and again another respected broadsheet.

    Here is an article from The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8885128/EDL-members-arrested-on-Armistice-Day.html

    EDL's intelligence level is so impressive and they apparently are able to hold a mature conversation in trying to get their points across that they, and I quote:

    Wait... Doesn't their mission statement state they don't believe in violence?

    Infact, in supposedly being only anti-Islamic only and not racist….

    It is highly unlikely that those bar staff would be practicing Muslims or identifiable as Muslims, so if Islam is their only problem, why were they unhappy with them not being English?

    The EDL mission statements may sound somewhat reasonable but if you read their comments on twitter, you find that they are nothing but vile, immature and far off from what they claim their objectives are. And their tweets alone show how often they contradict this mission statement that you mention in your post.

    If the leader of the EDL is so set on his objectives then why on earth does he keep getting arrested for stupid things including for threatening others with violence? If he’s so much better than an extremist Muslim that he’s trying to fight against, why does he participate continuously in dishonesty and associated again and again with violence. Is that an example of a good Christian/human that he sets to the Muslim community or any other minority community?

    Let’s take a look at another article from the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nt-after-entering-US-on-friends-passport.html - isn’t falsifying information not just morally wrong but also taught as wrong in religion as it accounts to the same as lying? In this particular incident, the UK community learned that Tommy Robinson/Stephen Lennon isn't his only name. He had a third name that the judge himself didn't know which one was real!

    There are a few Sikhs who have been with EDL and you’ll find many of them on twitter/facebook. Although I hope God guides those men/women away from EDL as they are simply being used to generate hate and do not realise this. The EDL have picked up on previous tensions between the Pakistani Muslim community and the Sikh Community over various issues and have used this as a platform to recruit some Sikh members who are predominantly young and are angry over these issues. They constantly refer to Sikhs as “their friends” and when there have been issues between these two communities; the EDL quickly get involved in an attempt to get Sikhs on their side to make them appear as anti-Islamic only and not racist.

    You said you were interested to hear of a Sikh who was part of the EDL, the most notable Sikh EDL member is Guramit Singh. I’m not going to go into so much details about it but here are some articles for you about him:

    http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/12-news/the-leadership/15-guramit-singh?COLLCC=1683043177&
    (this is written from a Sikh perspective although the writer points out they are not a practicing Sikh)

    http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/12404

    http://www.turbancampaign.com/updat...unce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/

    On his facebook page, his friends were mainly EDL people who often referred to him as a "P*k*" (note that I mentioned in my previous post, what a derogatory term this is). And it is also a term he uses freely to describe other Asians. And the use of this word was not used as a joke by those members either. It is common knowledge that this is a racist term, has nothing to do with Islam or extremism what so ever.

    If you look at some of the videos used in these links of actual EDL demonstrations and members, does this look to you like their objective statement was being met? If so, why is profanity so regularly used in trying to get their point across?

    Let’s assume that Muslims no longer existed or that all followers of Islam left the Islamic faith and followed the other major religions in the UK. What do you think the likes of EDL would do? Who do you think they will then pursue in their missionary objectives? Most likely Sikhs or Hindus and anybody else who isn’t from the indigenous population.

    I sincerely apologise if my views offend any of you and I hope you forgive me - I have no issues with people who want to question different areas of faith or start a group about protesting against extremism that can affect communities. However, I do have an issue when people vilify other people’s faith and show disrespect to it as well as (findingmyway writes) tar all followers with the same brush. Faith is something that is important to each individual and whichever path they choose to take, it is one that we should respect as human beings providing it is not used as a reason to harm others. And I have a major issue, when others who are not part of the said target group also suffer harassment and abuse simply because they are also different.

    I’m sorry to say Awakeand Singh-ji but having seen their demonstrations and heard the vile words that have come out of their mouths while they are standing meters away from me, the missionary statement you refer to might as well be printed on paper then ripped up and thrown in the recycling bin because it is something that the majority do not follow.

    Sikhs Against the EDL are an amazing group mostly run by Singhs from what I have seen in my interactions with them. And those Singhs and Kaurs are an ASSET to the UK. They act as role models to UK society, not just for Sikhs but for Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews and other communities. Similarly these communities also display a high level of respect to them, continuously applauding them on their work.

    I’m sure you must be familiar with Mark Twain’s quote “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” Such a shame the EDL’s Tommy Robinson/Stephen Lennon and the majority of his followers, never paid attention to it.
     
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