CaramelChocolate
SPNer
Thought this may interest you guys. From a discussion I had with a friend. My response in red.
God is more than a string of names, he is far higher than that. Look into the philosophy of language and you'll realise how pathetic using language to worship God is. I know what I think and feel and it is impossible to convey that through language.
+ No one is saying God is the names, they are just ways of praising him [referring to Hindu 108 names of God]
+ Why do you come to temple, an arti or idol would be just as meaningless
I despise liturgical modes or worship, I find them meaningless and pathetic as a way of worshipping God, or praising him.
Then become a Sikh, Sikhs believe the same thing.
Why should I become any religion? I don't believe in most of what Sikh's believe. I may as well become an Anglican christian, my views are more similar than they are to Sikhism!
So you believe in incarnation and liturigical worship [going church every sunday], the fact that one day in a week is holier than another. incarnation would also limit God.
Jesus was not an incarnatrion John, you should know that. And it is not liturgical. Liturgical is repeating a set phrase again and again at a set time or for a set purpose. Church worship changes every week, you don't repeat the names of God over and over and over because that does no good.
Sikhs believe you cant describe God, christians do
How do they? Christians maintain that they can never understand God, they merely describe what they THINK God is.
"how do they"... that implies that you disagree, WHY do you disagree
Christians have never claimed to know God's character. How many times do you hear a Christian say "God works in mysterious ways". Nowhere does the Bible say God is....
Jesus implies things in his teachigns but rarely is a staement about God made concretely.
But did he ever say clearly "God can never be described"? the Sikh gurus did... infact the belief of God having a son to Sikhs is describing some of God....
God didn't have a son! Did you not read your Bible?
Jesus WAS God, not his son.
So jesus is not God's son?
No
Ok, Jesus was God... then that means you can describe God
As God=Jesus
How?
Say one statement about Jesus.
The fact that people were able to see Jesus, describe what he look like gives description to God
The fact that Jesus had a name
No it doesn't, it describes a mere body.
That's still a statement
Jesus had a name, God didn't.
But Jesus is God?
Yes
Then God has a name - jesus
The name Jesus is a mutation of the name Yshwa, a mutation of Yahweh, the Jewish name of God.
SO Jesus actually means God.
"Jesus had a name, God didn't." <<<>>> "Yahweh, the Jewish name of God."
Ccontradiction
Yahweh means God in Hebrew.
Like saying God means God in English
or Dieu means God in French
or Dios means God in Spanish
or Theos means God in ancient Greek
Exactly. Give God a name means you are describing him
or Gott means God in german
No it doesn't.
As you will be able to say, I call the supreme spirit GOD
Waheguru?
As do Christians!
Just like someone points and me and says >>> JOHN
Nope, Sikhs believe God is nameless [to members, see Jaap sahib]
Waheguru is a praise
Waheguru - wow enlightener/wonderful GOD
What is the Christian name for the supreme deity?
In the original form.
Jehovah? not sure... another way they describe him is in three parts > father son holyspirit
No, Christians call that deity "God", all three parts are the same thing, God.
Yup, still a description of god though
Compared to Sikh believe Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews all other religions describe God... all Sikhs say is we can only praise him
Why praise something you don't know then?
What is the point?
Why should you worship God if you know nothing about him.
I guess the Sikh answer would be
To get mukti and become one with this supreme thing
Why would you want to become one with it?
I wouldn't want to live with something I knew nothing about.
Sikhs don't believe you should describe God and make that as an insentive for becoming one with it
You shud love and worship God because you want to
Why would you like worshipping a stranger?
Because this stranger is all their is
After you have experienced all there is to experience
After all worldy goals have been met
Thats all that's left
But I'm happy with my earthly life, and I have been in every existence. Why take a footstep into the dark?
Some realize before others, and leave the worldly goals
God isnt dark
He's light
You know I didn't mean that.
Sikhs say in the end you'll get tired of the world and look for something deeper
And I thought we couldn't describe God.
Saying God is light is describing him.
Symbolism
Symbolism is still giving him attributes.
No, symbolism is praising him since light to us means positive feelings, we are giving those positive feelings of light towards him, or it
Well, I'm not using darkness in that snese. I am using it as we are stepping into the unknown, the darkness.
Yes, I understand, sorry
But the whole point of that is that we will eventually know God and become God-realised... [when we've left our body]
And how do we do that without knowing god?
Devotion, undivided faith in him although he cant be described, praising him although he may give us the worst in life
I can't put my faith in someting I don't know.
Well then you have a problem. If you believe God can't be described and you can't put your faith in something you don't know, then you can never be a devotee of God as you'll have a recurring cycle unless you change either of those two beliefs
Did I say God can't be described?
Thats the impression I've got since we have no other tool BUT language 2 describe him, you said "I know what I think and feel and it is impossible to convey that through language."
NO, I said liturgy was wrong, not describing him.
In that case u have no problems at all. Describe God and worship the God you've described
I worship the God I believe in, not the God someone else has described. I think that what you feel is far more important than what you say. I can chant mantras all day long but unless i feel something behind it.
God is more than a string of names, he is far higher than that. Look into the philosophy of language and you'll realise how pathetic using language to worship God is. I know what I think and feel and it is impossible to convey that through language.
+ No one is saying God is the names, they are just ways of praising him [referring to Hindu 108 names of God]
+ Why do you come to temple, an arti or idol would be just as meaningless
I despise liturgical modes or worship, I find them meaningless and pathetic as a way of worshipping God, or praising him.
Then become a Sikh, Sikhs believe the same thing.
Why should I become any religion? I don't believe in most of what Sikh's believe. I may as well become an Anglican christian, my views are more similar than they are to Sikhism!
So you believe in incarnation and liturigical worship [going church every sunday], the fact that one day in a week is holier than another. incarnation would also limit God.
Jesus was not an incarnatrion John, you should know that. And it is not liturgical. Liturgical is repeating a set phrase again and again at a set time or for a set purpose. Church worship changes every week, you don't repeat the names of God over and over and over because that does no good.
Sikhs believe you cant describe God, christians do
How do they? Christians maintain that they can never understand God, they merely describe what they THINK God is.
"how do they"... that implies that you disagree, WHY do you disagree
Christians have never claimed to know God's character. How many times do you hear a Christian say "God works in mysterious ways". Nowhere does the Bible say God is....
Jesus implies things in his teachigns but rarely is a staement about God made concretely.
But did he ever say clearly "God can never be described"? the Sikh gurus did... infact the belief of God having a son to Sikhs is describing some of God....
God didn't have a son! Did you not read your Bible?
Jesus WAS God, not his son.
So jesus is not God's son?
No
Ok, Jesus was God... then that means you can describe God
As God=Jesus
How?
Say one statement about Jesus.
The fact that people were able to see Jesus, describe what he look like gives description to God
The fact that Jesus had a name
No it doesn't, it describes a mere body.
That's still a statement
Jesus had a name, God didn't.
But Jesus is God?
Yes
Then God has a name - jesus
The name Jesus is a mutation of the name Yshwa, a mutation of Yahweh, the Jewish name of God.
SO Jesus actually means God.
"Jesus had a name, God didn't." <<<>>> "Yahweh, the Jewish name of God."
Ccontradiction
Yahweh means God in Hebrew.
Like saying God means God in English
or Dieu means God in French
or Dios means God in Spanish
or Theos means God in ancient Greek
Exactly. Give God a name means you are describing him
or Gott means God in german
No it doesn't.
As you will be able to say, I call the supreme spirit GOD
Waheguru?
As do Christians!
Just like someone points and me and says >>> JOHN
Nope, Sikhs believe God is nameless [to members, see Jaap sahib]
Waheguru is a praise
Waheguru - wow enlightener/wonderful GOD
What is the Christian name for the supreme deity?
In the original form.
Jehovah? not sure... another way they describe him is in three parts > father son holyspirit
No, Christians call that deity "God", all three parts are the same thing, God.
Yup, still a description of god though
Compared to Sikh believe Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews all other religions describe God... all Sikhs say is we can only praise him
Why praise something you don't know then?
What is the point?
Why should you worship God if you know nothing about him.
I guess the Sikh answer would be
To get mukti and become one with this supreme thing
Why would you want to become one with it?
I wouldn't want to live with something I knew nothing about.
Sikhs don't believe you should describe God and make that as an insentive for becoming one with it
You shud love and worship God because you want to
Why would you like worshipping a stranger?
Because this stranger is all their is
After you have experienced all there is to experience
After all worldy goals have been met
Thats all that's left
But I'm happy with my earthly life, and I have been in every existence. Why take a footstep into the dark?
Some realize before others, and leave the worldly goals
God isnt dark
He's light
You know I didn't mean that.
Sikhs say in the end you'll get tired of the world and look for something deeper
And I thought we couldn't describe God.
Saying God is light is describing him.
Symbolism
Symbolism is still giving him attributes.
No, symbolism is praising him since light to us means positive feelings, we are giving those positive feelings of light towards him, or it
Well, I'm not using darkness in that snese. I am using it as we are stepping into the unknown, the darkness.
Yes, I understand, sorry
But the whole point of that is that we will eventually know God and become God-realised... [when we've left our body]
And how do we do that without knowing god?
Devotion, undivided faith in him although he cant be described, praising him although he may give us the worst in life
I can't put my faith in someting I don't know.
Well then you have a problem. If you believe God can't be described and you can't put your faith in something you don't know, then you can never be a devotee of God as you'll have a recurring cycle unless you change either of those two beliefs
Did I say God can't be described?
Thats the impression I've got since we have no other tool BUT language 2 describe him, you said "I know what I think and feel and it is impossible to convey that through language."
NO, I said liturgy was wrong, not describing him.
In that case u have no problems at all. Describe God and worship the God you've described
I worship the God I believe in, not the God someone else has described. I think that what you feel is far more important than what you say. I can chant mantras all day long but unless i feel something behind it.
