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Sikhism and Honour Killing

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Jasdeep118, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Jasdeep118

    Jasdeep118 Canada
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    Alright, I was on Reddit and doing some religious debate. Some guy claimed that Sikhism supports honour killings and Khalistan. Is this true? I mean the terrorist attacks and etc during the Punjab Insurgency. For men I believe that these Terrorists used Sikhism as an excuse to kill people for no reason.

    honor.jpg
     
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  3. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    The Sikh Code of Conduct explicitly condemns anyone who kills his daughter, so that rules out honor killing.

    Sikh Rehat Maryada
    Chapter X, Article XVI,
    l. A Sikh should not kill his daughter, nor should he
    maintain any relationship with a killer of
    daughter
    http://new.sgpc.net/sikh-rehat-maryada-in-english/

    Because of laws in India, I think it better to avoid the subject of Khalistan in a public forum such as this.
     
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  4. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    There is no honour in killing your children. It is murder. Change the thread subject line, if you know how to edit the thread subject line.

    For me "Honour" and "Killing" do not go together and it is disgusting to see as it is usually portrayed or reported so in media.

    Sikhs parent or relatives of the family have absolutely no right whatsoever to murder children no matter what the age is. So called honour killing, killing of children usually related to marrying the one the family may not approve of, is not a defensive act but an offensive act of a deranged culture and mind.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  5. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    "Honour" in this case has a very specific meaning as in the Punjabi word "izzat." The meaning has to do with family standing, prestige, and respect in the community and is carried primarily by the family's women. Patriarchal? Most certainly! Disgusting? No doubt.

    Still the term is known and understood in that part of the world. I believe it should be used with quotation marks or perhaps changed to the slightly cute dis-honour killings. I do agree that words are powerful and should be used carefully. Maybe we should use the phrase "so-called Honour killing" or "so-called Honour murder." I personally prefer the very specific "Izzat murder." The problem there is that most people have no idea what izzat means. What word or phrase would you suggest to replace "Honour killing"?
     
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  6. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley United Kingdom
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    The problem there is that most people have no idea what izzat means. What word or phrase would you suggest to replace "Honour killing"?

    Simples "MURDER" nothing less

    :singhfacepalm:
     
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  7. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    The problem is that the motive for this murder is specific and bizarre and needs to be explicitly stated.

    I know something of this first hand. Although I can't say much about it a close relative of mine got involved with a Palestinian man and his family was on the warpath, wanting to kill them both. We managed to extricate her, sort of, but it could have easily gone the other way. It is unlikely the whole story will ever be told, but if it is, the motive forms the basis for everything.
     
  8. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    I remember one high profile case (Sikh) from the UK. It was the Mother in Law that did it...
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...als-brought-murderous-mother-law-justice.html

    Horrible.... just horrible! I can't believe it. I see no honour in that. It's just murder plain and simple. Christian western families have had similar stories, for similar motives but it's never called honour killing. It's just murder plain and simple.
     
  9. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    I well remember the horrible case of Jaswinder Kaur Sidhu of British Columbia, Canada who was murdered by killers hired by her mother and uncle because they disapproved of the man she had married. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaswinder_Kaur_Sidhu
    I think the thing to keep in mind here is that this is contrary to everything Sikhi stands for and these are cases of people following the old Punjabi culture that should have been rendered completely obsolete by the teachings of the Gurus. Every large group, of course, has a few people whose actions can only be labeled as evil. Certainly, we should not judge our religion or ourselves by these actions of a very small minority.
     
  10. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley United Kingdom
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    WGKK-WGKF

    You hit the nail on the head Its nothing to do with Sikhi and everything to do with Punjabi culture and a lack of education as to what it is to be a Sikh :singhfacepalm::popcornsingh:
     
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  11. ActsOfGod

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    Please reference your sources for the above definition of the word "izzat" meaning to imply that the entire family's respect and prestige lie on the shoulders of the family's women alone.

    As with any words or terminology, context is very important. It's easy to pluck out any word or phrase, label it as poison, and then use it in a larger argument. I think the word izzat is being mis-used here. The concept of "family honor" may be one of the connotations in its use, but it is only one among many. We cannot make such blanket statements.

    So it's worthwhile to investigate the etymology and uses in various contexts, to gain a clearer understanding and meaning of the word.

    Also, family honor in and of itself is not a negative or awful thing. Its the particular individuals who suppressed the women and committed the crimes of abuse and murder that are to be held accountable for their heinous actions, not the entire host culture or its practices. This is tantamount to saying, for example, that if a female gets raped in the West, then it's the fault of the sexually permissive Western culture.

    [AoG]
     
  12. Inderjeet Kaur

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    i am using the word as I have always heard it used and as it is used in common usage amongst the Punjabis I have known.

    I do agree that words are powerful and should be used carefully. Perhaps this is a case where common usage should be differentiated from the formal definition.
     
  13. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur
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    Let us put our arguing and disagreements aside for a moment. This is something each of us can do right now.

    Pakistan: Protect women from "honour" killings

    For marrying the man she loved, Saba’s own father shot her in the head, stuffed her in a bag, and dumped her in a river. Then he walked free because of a loophole in Pakistani law that allows men to commit so-called "honour killings". But, incredibly, Saba survived and she has created a ray of hope to finally stop these outrages! We have four days to help her.

    Saba’s story is now an Oscar-nominated documentary, and it’s all over the news. In response, the Pakistani PM just promised to end these heinous crimes, and sources say he's instructed his daughter, Maryam, to be part of the reform process. But activists fear that the bill will only be passed if the Oscar buzz is massive and public pressure is sustained.

    Let’s urgently get 1 million of us behind this law before the Oscars on Sunday to ensure Saba’s story has the global spotlight, and then deliver it directly to the Prime Minister to help him push for a strong law. Sign and share with everyone, before we lose this moment.

    :rightpointer: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/pakistan_end_honour_killing_loc/?pv=188&rc=fb
     
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  14. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Inderjeet Kaur ji thanks for your positive suggestion. I am sure this is almost equivalent to social cancer of a society's values. A society that is essentially corrupt, allows the weak in all forms to be subjugates ends up with these diseases. This disease causes such incidences and atrocities. By the way the diseased are the one's that carry it out and the arrogant, the opportunists, the inhuman who play a role at times to instigate by slandering and the stupid and murderers who fall for this bait.There is a phrase and you perhaps will know it too and it goes in Punjabi "Laaton ke boot, baton sey nahin mantey"/"you cannot use talk to fix hard shoes"==> you need a hard mallet to soften these and many other harsh measures when th elocal cobbler would hand sew these from basically raw hard hide.. Even though it has been proven in many civilized societies that retribution does not work and reform is the way. At times it is hard to reconcile within one selves when such murders happen.

    You know it is allowed in some religions and cultures and societies to literally accept blood money, i.e. you murder someone and you can pay off their family to settle. I know it looks crass on the surface but what are civil lawsuits in civilized societies, in reality same thing. Look at civil law suits that OJ Simpson faced, and right fully so bu {censored word, do not repeat.} is still blood money. I believe there needs to be a line in the sand for crimes against the vulnerable. It may be children going to school in rural Wazirstan, Afghanistan or a female murdered in Pakistan or India.

    Again I am sure efforts that you have informed people about at spn, and similar activities one day will start making a dent into this. However to expect a miracle will be to be disheartened and disappointed. It is a very very long road. There are very strong and embedded opposing forces that are essentially working gorilla always under the surface while projecting above surface compassion and concern.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     

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