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Sikhism and Fortune Telling

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Sukhmani Brar, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Sukhmani Brar

    Sukhmani Brar
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    I often get confused, whether to believe on the people who tell fortune or not. I have never been able to find an answer because there are some people who have been able to tell what is going to happen in my life, what happened in my past life and what I am thinking to do. For instance, this lady from Egypt whom I never met before told me everything about what is going in my life. And everything she told was true. (it is not her profession though, she never does it for money)

    What does Sikhism say about this. I would really appreciate if someone could help me find an answer.

    Regards,
    sukhmani
     
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  3. manjotkaur

    manjotkaur
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    Fortune telling is a calculation and people who know the tact of reading the greh nakshatra at times do tell u few things, but no always everything is true

    Even i have an experience whereby they take hand prints and match with some they have read the reprints they have for that matched print.They told everything concerning my family my mom and my dad names and occupations and even about me.I was amazed as at that time what ever i was told was about things that had already happened with me and futuristic things i wasnt aware of as they had yet to happen , now its almost five years and what ever future things i was told none is correct .......nothing of that sort has happened as was specified on particular month and time and year.

    So i think its all predictions based on calculations and they may not be true everytime .

    That was just my experince so though of putting it as is relavent to ur happening.
     
  4. Akashdeep Singh

    Akashdeep Singh
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    My experience with such people has been totally different from that of yours. On the issue of the ability of the person you are talking about you should look and research a few questions to start with: -

    1. How much about you is known to the people common between the person who told you about your life and yourself?
    2. How much stuff the person told you is common and general stuff? For example - saying that you have/had/will have problem in love life, you have/had/will have financial problem, someone is/did/will cause problem in your life etc. etc. is pretty general and will cover most of the people :) . Remember - "Nanak dukhia sab sansaar"

    Below is what Gurbani says about Astrology and Fortune telling: -

    ਆਂਟ ਸੇਤੀ ਨਾਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਸੂਝਤੇ ਤਿਨਿ ਲੋਅ
    ਮਗਰ
    ਪਾਛੈ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਏਹੁ ਪਦਮ ਅਲੋਅ
    [AGGS, M 1, P 662]


    "One holds the nose with his two fingers and thumb
    and claims to see three worlds. But it is very astonishing
    that he does not know what is behind his back."

    ਗਣਿ ਗਣਿ ਜੋਤਕੁ ਕਾਂਡੀ ਕੀਨੀ
    ਪੜੈ
    ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ਤਤੁ ਚੀਨੀ
    ਸਭਸੈ
    ਊਪਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
    ਹੋਰ
    ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਉ ਸਗਲੀ ਛਾਰੁ
    [AGGS, M 1, P 904.]


    "Astrologer counts and recounts and prepare the horoscope.
    Then he reads it to his clients. But he does not
    recognize the reality. The highest of all is the philosophy
    of the Guru. All others deliberations are ashes
    (means nothing)."

    ਮਨ ਕੀ ਪਤ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਚਣੀ ਸੁਖੀ ਹੂ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਾਰੁ
    ਸੋ
    ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਭਲਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
    [AGGS, M 3, P 1093.]


    "(Instead of reading the horoscopes of others) read the
    horoscope of your mind to find the highest joy of the
    joys. The one, who understand the Divine thought
    (philosophy), is called the noble Brahman."


    Now my question for your concience - If fortune - telling is possible than would not that mean that your future is pretty much already fixed and decided? If your future is fixed and already decided then what is your role in this world/cosmos? Remember, what Guru Nanak said, -


    Please read the following observation from Dr Joe Schwarcz, Professor of Chemistry, in his article - Sense and Nonsense: -

    "Astrology has been practiced since the time of the ancient Egyptians. This, however, does not make it valid. Is there any reason to believe that astrology works? Any physics student can calculate that the gravitational effect of the heavenly bodies on human bodies is insignificant. In fact, as far as a baby is concerned, the gravitational effect of the obstetrician at the moment of birth is far greater than the effect of the stars. Is our destiny then shaped by the body weight of the doctor who brings us into the world? There is, however, no need to use physics to refute astrology. Its validity can be readily tested. Just ask a number of people to write autobiographical sketches. Give these to astrologers together with the birth dates of the subjects. Ask the astrologers to match the character sketches with the birth dates. They can't. It is also interesting to note that when birth dates of scientists or politicians or actors or psychics are compiled, they are remarkably random. Shouldn't unemotional, skeptical, profit-oriented scientists have different birth signs than sensitive, altruistic, generous psychics? But I guess I'm being too cynical. It must be because I'm a Leo and everyone knows that Leos are much too sensible to believe in such nonsense." [1]

    References:
    1. Schwarcz, Joe. 1998. Sense and Nonsense. The Gazette, Montreal,
      Sunday, October 25, 1998, page C4.
     
  5. Sukhmani Brar

    Sukhmani Brar
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    But the lady told me specific things. How is that possible to happen.
     
  6. Shaheediyan

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    Ridhi Sidhi, astrology, numerology, palm reading etc... Guru Ji does not say these things don't exist, Guru Ji says they are of no avail, as you are putting your faith in the pointless exercises which ultimately aren't going to help you to remember Vaheguru and achieve mukti.

    The tuks pointed above clearly show Guru Ji saying that people who pursue these temporary knowledge to be completely wasting their precious time.

    Knowing your future doesn't make one iota of difference to one's spiritual life.

    Only putting complete faith in Vaheguru's charan and devoting yourself to his service through your jeevan advances ones spritual life.
     
  7. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    The Sikhi version of Ms Cleo in Sikhism?

    One hopes not.

    Tejwant
     
  8. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Ridhi Sidhi, astrology, numerology, palm reading etc... Guru Ji does not say these things don't exist, Guru Ji says they are of no avail, as you are putting your faith in the pointless exercises which ultimately aren't going to help you to remember Vaheguru and achieve mukti.

    And Rehit Maryada says it's a no go.
     
  9. Randip Singh

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    My experince is that these people are confidence tricksters. They are very perceptive and clever people who use many means to find out things about people.

    I stay away from such people and the Sikh has no need for such things.
     
  10. amitverma

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    It appears that the lady from Egypt knows how to read "aura". There is an aura around all of us which tells about us, our life - past and future. Hope that answers your question.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. kamaljit singh

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    These things all exist but only where there is no naam. The light of naam shatters all illousions. this kind of debate for a gursikh is fruitless. To a gursikh this body is a dress, this world is but a layover, everything is tamasha. only truth that exists is wahaguru's naam.
    waha guru ji ka khalsa
    waha guru ji ki fateh
     
  12. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Wanted fortune teller a step ahead of police[SIZE=-1]
    By HAYLEY MICK
    Toronto Globe and Mail[/SIZE]



    [SIZE=-1]February 27, 2006
    Monday[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]
    TORONTO - She is a fortune teller who reels in the broken-hearted with talk of evil spells and promises of rekindled romance. Then, police say, she takes their money and disappears.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]Last month, Sophie Evon, 76, pulled her best vanishing act on the Canadian authorities. She skipped town just before she was to be extradited to the United States from Toronto to face first-degree fraud charges for allegedly defrauding a heartbroken Seattle woman of $220,000.[/SIZE]
     
  13. amitverma

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    my dear sikh friend, i was talking about naam simran only. I donot know what stage of bhakti are you? but once u reach a certain stage you will be able to see and read auras. Naam simran is the only way to reach this stage. You are right in saying that the ultimate truth is Naam Simran. Also, this naam simran can be of waheguru, raam, jesus etc.
     
  14. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh
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    What aura is this? Is this like the Aura Borellis? Is it something mentioned in Bani or the Vedas?
     
  15. simpy

    simpy
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    Amit Ji, these days one can even take pictures of one's aura ;)
     
  16. spnadmin

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    There are even people who claim to read the auras of carrots and potatoes. Kirlean photography is used to show "objectively" that such things exist. This is a new age concept that has been discussed since I was a teenager. It sounds mysterious and therefore significant. A perfect way to trick people into paying people who claim to read "auras" a lot of money to diagnose diseases they do not have, provide them with useless treatments, deprive them of valid medical attention, and relieve them of lots of money.

    To quote others in the forum - Just my 2 cents.
     
  17. Archived_member2

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    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    Dear all and Akashdeep Singh Jee!

    Thanks for the wonderful references from the Gurus.

    "aaNt saytee naak pakrheh soojh-tay tin lo-a."
    "magar paachhai kachh na soojhai ayhu padam alo-a." SGGS 663-1
    "One holds the nose with his two fingers and thumb
    and claims to see three worlds. But it is very astonishing
    that he does not know what is behind his back."

    I am not sure if this Vaak is about an astrologer. Please explain why did you interpret it so.

    **************

    "gan gan jotak kaaNdee keenee."
    "parhai sunaavai tat na cheenee."
    "sabhsai oopar gur sabad beechaar."
    "hor kathnee bada-o na saglee chhaar." SGGS 904-13
    Astrologer counts and recounts and prepare the horoscope.
    Then he reads it to his clients, but he does not recognize the essence.
    The highest of all is the contemplation of the way of Sabad.
    Other deliberations are all ashes.

    Guru Nanak Dev Jee is suggesting that contemplation of the Sabad is above all activity. Why some understand that rejecting and hating a science like astrology is most important from the above Sabad. Please explain it.

    **************

    "man kee patree vaachnee sukhee hoo sukh saar."
    "so baraahman bhalaa aakhee-ai je boojhai barahm beechaar." SGGS 1093-19.
    Read the horoscope of your mind to find the highest joy of the joys.
    The one, who resolves Brhama-contemplation, calls him the noble Brahman.

    All true Sikhs should follow the Guru's suggestion. They should learn to read the horoscope of mind.

    **************

    Quote "Now my question for your concience - If fortune - telling is possible than would not that mean that your future is pretty much already fixed and decided?"
    Please ponder. Gurdev is singing.
    "jo kichh paa-i-aa so aykaa vaar." SGGS 7-5.
    Whatever HE puts, that is for once.

    **************

    Dear Aad002 Jee, Kirlian photography has nothing to do with real auras. Every person or existence is dissipating and receiving energy constantly. Its strength is varying every moment. An aura is not this energy.
    Once I asked a lady who is earning through Kirlian photography if the photographs were of receiving energy or the dissipating energy of an object. She promised to forward the question to the camera manufacturer.


    Balbir Singh
     
  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Balbir,

    You said

    Dear Aad002 Jee, Kirlian photography has nothing to do with real auras. Every person or existence is dissipating and receiving energy constantly. Its strength is varying every moment. An aura is not this energy. Once I asked a lady who is earning through Kirlian photography if the photographs were of receiving energy or the dissipating energy of an object. She promised to forward the question to the camera manufacturer.

    Oh I agree that it is a joke. A fraud.
     
  19. GURVINDER

    GURVINDER
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    Fortune Trellers Are A Kind Of Psycologists Who Will Tell Everything Of Yours By Observing Your State Of Mind So Thise Is Not A Kind Of Magic But An Trick To Make Other's Fool
     
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Amazing isn't it?

    Gurvinder ji,

    Our guru's made the supreme sacrifice to rid people of the fear and slavery of superstition. They were clear, clear, clear. And who is listening?
     
  21. Kirpal Singh

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    Dear sukhmani,let us ask your question from our Guru Granth Sahib! In japji Sahib,At the end of ist verse,Guru Nanak asks a question himself"Kiv Sachiara.....," & in next line answers it"HUKAM Rajai Chalna,Nanak Likhya Naal"Then Guru elaborates on concept of HUKAM in the second verse.Please obtain a book"Seekers Path"by Sohan Singh for more detailed study of japji Sahib in English.In conclusion,to live our lives in accordance with HUKAM,we must reject dependence on other things including astrology even if it is correct. Kirpal Singh
     

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