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Sikhism : An old wine in - New Bottle

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vinod, May 6, 2007.

  1. vinod

    vinod
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    Sikhism is an Adoption of Hinduism

    I consider sikhism as an alteration and bady of Hindu religion with nothing original in it.It is a copy of the Hindu religion.
    The following article has been taken from one of ongoing post.
    Guru Nanak’s Doctrine of Divine Order[Dr. Dalvinder Singh Grewal*]
    * HM-210 Focal Point, Sukhdev Nagar, Ludhiana 141001.

    Concepts of Divine Order (hukam) and Divine Grace (nadar) are the charasteristic contributions of Adi Granth. Hukam, a Persian term, meaning command or decree or direction, sanction or permission, occurs in Guru Nanak’s hymns in several different - but related - connotations such as Divine law, Divine Will, or Divine Pleasure (bhana, raza); Divine fiat (farman); Divine power or Divine creation (qudrat). Guru Nanak has used the word hukam for Divine constitution under which this universe and nature were created and developed and functioning. Guru Nanak declares in Japuji that “all forms, beings, great and small, the pain and pleasure, bounties and wanderings are indescribable and there is nothing outside the realm of hukam.” All the worlds, all the continents and all the beings of universe, are driven by God according to His will, and His pen flows to record their deeds. All the creation works under the Hukam or the Law of God. These laws are true for all times and work in all the three fields, i.e. physical, moral and spiritual. These laws bind all the creatures in the world.

    Doctrine of Divine Grace: Divine Grace (nadar) is another characteristic concept of Guru Nanak. Meaning of Divine Grace are different in Guru Nanak’s hymns from its usage in Christian theology, where the stress is upon its universal nature and absolute sufficiency for salvation. In Guru Nanak’s hymns nadar is related to divine pleasure (raza) and somewhat close to “election”: of neo-Calvinist theology, except that it leaves no scope for individulal’s free will. It is through nadar (God’s Grace) that one secures the threshold of salvation (mukti). Though we get our body according to our karma, the release can only be obtained through the Grace of the Lord. The Grace of God begins with our acceptance of the True path in life. The amount of the Grace of the Lord necessitates our accomplishments on the right path. In fact, the Grace of the Lord is not the result of any whim of the Lord; it begins and matures with the beginning and maturity of our dharma.

    Doctrine of Cause and Effect: The law of cause and effect works in every field. As per Newton’s Law, “Every action has equal and opposite reaction.” It is however different in Guru Nanak’s words. He says, “He is the Creator and the destroyer and He himself puts every one on various jobs.” He Himself is the doer and Himself the cause. Nothing happens without His order. A being performs His actions as per the directions of the Lord. A being gets birth into a form of life accroding to the karma of his previous life. He can improve his karma by doing good deeds. He loses the purpose of life if he is lost into maya and self-interest. He however can attain his purpose if he keeps off from maya and remains attached with the Lord. He can remain attached with the Lord by keeping his soul, mind and body tuned to Him through Naam which is the only way to attain salvation, i.e. to save one self from the cycle of births and deaths. Naam can be obtained from the Guru and a person can merge into Him by True Guru’s Grace.

    Doctrine of Dharma (Ethical Conduct): The man’s final assessment and approval before God will depend entirely on his deeds. Activity is the keynote of Guru’s teachings. The real objective of a being is to reach the ultimate but it forgets its pass in the worldly evils and fails in attainment of the Lord. The prominent vices connected with the body are cruelty, theft and sexual hunger. The Gurus and saints believed in two kinds of actions, i.e. good or bad. The doer cannot escape from the effect of his deeds. While good deeds are fruitful, the bad actions get due punishments. The Charvaka hedonism has been rejected outright by the Guru. The virtue or righteousness exhibited through body, speech and mind is known as Dharma. In no religious system is the emphasis on ethical conduct greater than as laid down in the Adi Granth where ‘truthful living or conduct has been declared higher than Truth itself’. Sweetness and humility are the essence of all virtues. Life is most fruitful when we meet those who practice humility and gentleness even while they are strong. The virtuous deeds are the tree, God’s Name its branches, faith its flowers and the Divine knowledge its fruit. To achieve sublimity one should make truth his fasting, contentment his pilgrimage, cognition and meditation his ablution, compassion his deity and forgiveness his rosary. Very few have the right way their loin-cloth, consciousness their sacred enclosure, good deeds their frontal mark and the Lord’s love their food. He who eats what he earns through his earnest labour, and from his hand gives some in charity, alone knows the true way of life.

    The Gurus ‘never forgot that there is only one God of all the beings’. For him none is born great, none is inferior to the other; the walls and prejudices created in society are only man made. He advocates the removal of all social barriers between man and man, and man and woman. He has totally rejected the division of varnas (castes) and Ashrams (stages of life) enjoined by Hindu Shashtras. He believes in universal brotherhood and propagates love amongst all beings.

    My observations are as follows:

    The doctrine of Grace of God and is part and parcel of almost all the religions on the earth.Law of Karma is an esential doctrine peculiar to HInduism.It has been copied by sikhs.Even the constitution of India does not recognise it as a separate religion.The sikhs is a closed sect living miles away from reality.They have never contributed to any of the economic activity, scientific activity and advancements.All that they do is to be a load on society.

    There is no name of sikh in politics except in the regional politics of Punjab.Why so?It is only because the religion has become a burden on the individuals who cannot practice it.

    In hindu's the class system originated way back Manu's days and had specific purpose and that suited that time.Each person of a society had some job to do.The system worked well.The philosphy had worked well.

    The sikh guru's have quoited that Vedas should be rejected and all one should do is to remember Him all the time.If one follows this line of action this world will come to an end. Sikh religion in the end is a failure.

    Let us look at the significance of keeping a beard.It looks horrible to see a sikh man when he is not clad properly.People avoid sikhs in India because of they look unclean and untidy .What ius the big significance of keeping the hairs that give them unkempt look.

    Sikhs could not have their Guru's saved from the Hand of Muslims.How can they save themselves. Most of the affluent families have already starting running to Europe and USA and the poor sikhs are left in India to face the music of poverty.There is no sharing of wealth amongst the sikhs.I do not think that this religion will have any supporter on the earth after a few centuries and will die its own death because of

    1.Dis respect of Guru's order. 5 ks' especially in Punjab most of the sikhs do not keep the hair.those left trim .
    2.Wearing turban is a difficult task.
    3.The youngs are disillusioned.
    4.Most of them have even altered their names.
    5.The sikhs who have migrated are not helping their indian relatives at all.
    6.Sikhs have nothing to feel proud of the turbans and the beards.
    The morale of the kids is down.Mere gurbani will make them faqeers.Is there any name who have ever obtained salvatiuion.None
    Any takers
     
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  3. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: To see without eyes to hear without ears

    Respected Vinod Ji,

    welcome to the forum and please keep on helping us finding our faults....

    endless thanks to you for evaluating the Sikhs.

    The Sikhs know what they are, What the Gurus are telling them and what they should do as well.....

    anyways endless thanks to you for pointing out all the shortcomings, i hope readers will get an idea now where they are lacking :) if any!

    many endless thanks to you for the effort and time you spent on your probe and investigation and presentation.......
     
  4. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    Re: To see without eyes to hear without ears

    What reality are you talking. Believing in superisition, sati pratha, worshipping stones, havans, jadu tuna, descriminating people by birth etc. etc. Thank God Gurbani leads us to live with logic and not blind faith. Well with all eight hundred millions of population, you could only find a sikh at least to lead you as Prime Minister. And the Indian laws does not permit manu's descrimination of humanity.
    Grow the beard and see the eternal bliss. Our Gurus have taught us how to live and we are very happy. Regards Sahni Mohinder
     
  5. vinod

    vinod
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    Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Sikhism is a religion started by Baba nanak .The entire philosphy of sikhism is based on the criticism of Hindu/muslim and christianity as per the translations of Granth Sahib as offered by Sahib singh and many others.

    1.AT many places the concept of incarnation and soul liberation have been stated.Why? Did the Guru not have any other thought in mind.

    2.This is a copy of Hindu's philosphy Of Karma and incarnation.How come this was stated to be the philosphy of Sikhs?

    3.The transdental nature and philosphy of immanence was the need and was incorporated. What was the big need of religion at all, it should have been a 'sect' amogst HIndus only and these people should have been trained to look after the interest of the country.

    4. The philosphy of Naam Daan is a secret and is not meant for ordinary person. Baba ji kept the secret to himself and became the indirect rweason of flourishing of Radhasoami ,who claim tohave visited sachkhand many times.

    The following will reveal the truth.

    Guru Nanak’s Doctrine of Divine Order[Dr. Dalvinder Singh Grewal*]
    * HM-210 Focal Point, Sukhdev Nagar, Ludhiana 141001.

    Concepts of Divine Order (hukam) and Divine Grace (nadar) are the charasteristic contributions of Adi Granth. Hukam, a Persian term, meaning command or decree or direction, sanction or permission, occurs in Guru Nanak’s hymns in several different - but related - connotations such as Divine law, Divine Will, or Divine Pleasure (bhana, raza); Divine fiat (farman); Divine power or Divine creation (qudrat). Guru Nanak has used the word hukam for Divine constitution under which this universe and nature were created and developed and functioning. Guru Nanak declares in Japuji that “all forms, beings, great and small, the pain and pleasure, bounties and wanderings are indescribable and there is nothing outside the realm of hukam.” All the worlds, all the continents and all the beings of universe, are driven by God according to His will, and His pen flows to record their deeds. All the creation works under the Hukam or the Law of God. These laws are true for all times and work in all the three fields, i.e. physical, moral and spiritual. These laws bind all the creatures in the world.

    Doctrine of Divine Grace: Divine Grace (nadar) is another characteristic concept of Guru Nanak. Meaning of Divine Grace are different in Guru Nanak’s hymns from its usage in Christian theology, where the stress is upon its universal nature and absolute sufficiency for salvation. In Guru Nanak’s hymns nadar is related to divine pleasure (raza) and somewhat close to “election”: of neo-Calvinist theology, except that it leaves no scope for individulal’s free will. It is through nadar (God’s Grace) that one secures the threshold of salvation (mukti). Though we get our body according to our karma, the release can only be obtained through the Grace of the Lord. The Grace of God begins with our acceptance of the True path in life. The amount of the Grace of the Lord necessitates our accomplishments on the right path. In fact, the Grace of the Lord is not the result of any whim of the Lord; it begins and matures with the beginning and maturity of our dharma.

    Doctrine of Cause and Effect: The law of cause and effect works in every field. As per Newton’s Law, “Every action has equal and opposite reaction.” It is however different in Guru Nanak’s words. He says, “He is the Creator and the destroyer and He himself puts every one on various jobs.” He Himself is the doer and Himself the cause. Nothing happens without His order. A being performs His actions as per the directions of the Lord. A being gets birth into a form of life accroding to the karma of his previous life. He can improve his karma by doing good deeds. He loses the purpose of life if he is lost into maya and self-interest. He however can attain his purpose if he keeps off from maya and remains attached with the Lord. He can remain attached with the Lord by keeping his soul, mind and body tuned to Him through Naam which is the only way to attain salvation, i.e. to save one self from the cycle of births and deaths. Naam can be obtained from the Guru and a person can merge into Him by True Guru’s Grace.

    Doctrine of Dharma (Ethical Conduct): The man’s final assessment and approval before God will depend entirely on his deeds. Activity is the keynote of Guru’s teachings. The real objective of a being is to reach the ultimate but it forgets its pass in the worldly evils and fails in attainment of the Lord. The prominent vices connected with the body are cruelty, theft and sexual hunger. The Gurus and saints believed in two kinds of actions, i.e. good or bad. The doer cannot escape from the effect of his deeds. While good deeds are fruitful, the bad actions get due punishments. The Charvaka hedonism has been rejected outright by the Guru. The virtue or righteousness exhibited through body, speech and mind is known as Dharma. In no religious system is the emphasis on ethical conduct greater than as laid down in the Adi Granth where ‘truthful living or conduct has been declared higher than Truth itself’. Sweetness and humility are the essence of all virtues. Life is most fruitful when we meet those who practice humility and gentleness even while they are strong. The virtuous deeds are the tree, God’s Name its branches, faith its flowers and the Divine knowledge its fruit. To achieve sublimity one should make truth his fasting, contentment his pilgrimage, cognition and meditation his ablution, compassion his deity and forgiveness his rosary. Very few have the right way their loin-cloth, consciousness their sacred enclosure, good deeds their frontal mark and the Lord’s love their food. He who eats what he earns through his earnest labour, and from his hand gives some in charity, alone knows the true way of life.

    The Gurus ‘never forgot that there is only one God of all the beings’. For him none is born great, none is inferior to the other; the walls and prejudices created in society are only man made. He advocates the removal of all social barriers between man and man, and man and woman. He has totally rejected the division of varnas (castes) and Ashrams (stages of life) enjoined by Hindu Shashtras. He believes in universal brotherhood and propagates love amongst all beings.

    My observations are as follows:

    The doctrine of Grace of God and is part and parcel of almost all the religions on the earth.Law of Karma is an esential doctrine peculiar to HInduism.It has been copied by sikhs.Even the constitution of India does not recognise it as a separate religion.The sikhs is a closed sect living miles away from reality.They have never contributed to any of the economic activity, scientific activity and advancements.All that they do is to be a load on society.

    There is no name of sikh in politics except in the regional politics of Punjab.Why so?It is only because the religion has become a burden on the individuals who cannot practice it.

    In hindu's the class system originated way back Manu's days and had specific purpose and that suited that time.Each person of a society had some job to do.The system worked well.The philosphy had worked well.

    The sikh guru's have quoited that Vedas should be rejected and all one should do is to remember Him all the time.If one follows this line of action this world will come to an end. Sikh religion in the end is a failure.

    Let us look at the significance of keeping a beard.It looks horrible to see a sikh man when he is not clad properly.People avoid sikhs in India because of they look unclean and untidy .What ius the big significance of keeping the hairs that give them unkempt look.

    Sikhs could not have their Guru's saved from the Hand of Muslims.How can they save themselves. Most of the affluent families have already starting running to Europe and USA and the poor sikhs are left in India to face the music of poverty.There is no sharing of wealth amongst the sikhs.I do not think that this religion will have any supporter on the earth after a few centuries and will die its own death because of

    1.Dis respect of Guru's order. 5 ks' especially in Punjab most of the sikhs do not keep the hair.those left trim .
    2.Wearing turban is a difficult task.
    3.The youngs are disillusioned.
    4.Most of them have even altered their names.
    5.The sikhs who have migrated are not helping their indian relatives at all.
    6.Sikhs have nothing to feel proud of the turbans and the beards.
    The morale of the kids is down.Mere gurbani will make them faqeers.Is there any name who have ever obtained salvatiuion.None



    Enjoy your Paath and Gurudwara at the cost of the development of the country whose resources are depleted on account of poor activity.

    Rest when you Talk.



    ----------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------
     
  6. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    well its just like saying that christians were unable to save christ but still christianity is the biggest religion in the world.

    as far as copying is concerned you can easily say that all abrabic faiths are carbon copy of each other
     
  7. vinod

    vinod
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Dear kds ji,

    Thank you but your reply is nowhere near the expected answer,It out of the periphery of complete fitting reply.
    Please reply sincerely if you are versed with Sikhism.

    Namaste
     
  8. GuruPyaara

    GuruPyaara
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    the best reply kds1980 ji.

    our friend Vinod just cannot digest the truth, so that is ok.
    i must say, they say the old wine is better though, does packaging date or material matter?
    Actualy Sikhism depicts the ultimate truth, so true from ever and true for ever.

    Distorters of gurbani cross all the limits and present it in their own words- will it change the truth. Truth is the truth, may hurt some big egoes but will not change ever never.
     
  9. vinod

    vinod
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    Re: To see without eyes to hear without ears

    Hello Japjisaab[Mohinder sahni ji,
    I am quoting you:
    "What reality are you talking. Believing in superisition, sati pratha, worshipping stones, havans, jadu tuna, descriminating people by birth etc. etc.

    Thank God Gurbani leads us to live with logic and not blind faith. Well with all eight hundred millions of population, you could only find a sikh at least to lead you as Prime Minister. And the Indian laws does not permit manu's descrimination of humanity.
    Grow the beard and see the eternal bliss. Our Gurus have taught us how to live and we are very happy. Regards Sahni Mohinder"
    ===============
    Reply
    Respected Sir,

    It seems that you have been hit on the softest part Of the intellect. Your observation is correct that PM of India is a puppet with Congress.He has himself admitted that he is not in religion.He simply wers head gear for he has to.That should be clear.

    There is no 'sati' tradition these days atleast in India.There can be stray incidence.

    Indian laws are not discriminatory at all.There is a preferential treatment for the schedules caste and tribes.However, Sikhs have never demanded for there minority status and most of the intellectuals that sikhs have are busy having their bath in personal glory.Khushwqant singh is the firat burning example. He is the only man who can influence the minds of the governemt by his pen power. But he is not doing it.
    even Muslims have got preferential treatment in the matter Of service.
    Sikhs never claimed it.They never fought it out.



    Mr. Navjot Sidhu ji is available on TV on all sorts of funny programmes and he is with BJP party.Hail Those Sikhs who are practising treacherywith their poor brothers. And rest of you are sheltering your self in the refuge of other Govenment.
    Make merry and leave your brethern in India.Y don't you help your brothers who are in India.
    Enjoy your Sikhi if that is the Sikhi ..I bow to you sir. If it is a crime to suggest someone, i have committed one.





    Namaskaram.
     
    #8 vinod, May 14, 2007
    Last edited: May 14, 2007
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Wow, Respected Sadh Sangat Ji,

    Dhan Dhan Guru Sahib Ne Jo keha Sach Keha- Sade Veer Vinod Ji ne Partakh kar ditta.
    Endless thanks to you Vinod Ji.

    Respected Vinod Veer, Just like all your other posts and threads, this one also shows a clear picture of your understanding of SIKH CONSCIOUS :) ...

    and i again welcome you with both hands folded, as Guru Sahib Ne Sanu Sikhyaa Ditti Hai-
    AMg 339
    ang 339
    Page 339

    gauVI ]
    gourree
    Gauree:

    inMdau inMdau mo kau logu inMdau ]
    nindho nindho mo ko log nindho
    Slander me, slander me - go ahead, people, and slander me.

    inMdw jn kau KrI ipAwrI ]
    nindhaa jun ko khuree piaaree
    Slander is pleasing to the Lord's humble servant.

    inMdw bwpu inMdw mhqwrI ]1] rhwau ]
    nindhaa baap nindhaa mehuthaaree
    Slander is my father, slander is my mother. ||1||Pause||

    inMdw hoie q bYkuMiT jweIAY ]
    nindhaa hoe th baikunth jaaeeai
    If I am slandered, I go to heaven;

    nwmu pdwrQu mnih bsweIAY ]
    naam pudhaaruth munehi busaaeeai
    the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides within my mind.

    irdY suD jau inMdw hoie ]
    ridhai sudh jo nindhaa hoe
    If my heart is pure, and I am slandered,

    hmry kpry inMdku Doie ]1]
    humurae kupurae nindhuk dhoe
    then the slanderer washes my clothes. ||1||

    inMdw krY su hmrw mIqu ]
    nindhaa kurai s humuraa meeth
    One who slanders me is my friend;

    inMdk mwih hmwrw cIqu ]
    nindhuk maahi humaaraa cheeth
    the slanderer is in my thoughts.

    inMdku so jo inMdw horY ]
    nindhuk so jo nindhaa horai
    The slanderer is the one who prevents me from being slandered.

    hmrw jIvnu inMdku lorY ]2]
    humuraa jeevun nindhuk lorai
    The slanderer wishes me long life. ||2||

    inMdw hmrI pRym ipAwru ]
    nindhaa humuree praem piaar
    I have love and affection for the slanderer.

    inMdw hmrw krY auDwru ]
    nindhaa humuraa kurai oudhaar
    Slander is my salvation.

    jn kbIr kau inMdw swru ]
    jun kubeer ko nindhaa saar
    Slander is the best thing for servant Kabeer.

    inMdku fUbw hm auqry pwir ]3]20]71]
    nindhuk ddoobaa hum outhurae paar
    The slanderer is drowned, while I am carried across. ||3||20||71||


    (source of gurbani translation:Sikhitothemax)

    humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness
     
  11. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle


    Dear Vinod ji,

    I am appalled to note the response that you have received so far from this Forum. This is not the peak of intellect of the Forum. We have a number of resident Brahmgyaani's who claim to know all in this forum. I am sure someone will come forth to answer your comments.

    If all else fails then my humble self will fight this battle to the end.

    Before you start criticising others please also get your facts in order. Firstly there is no such thing as Hinduism. Are you are referring to the Phillosophy of Vedanta?.

    You refer to Sikhism as “An old wine in a new bottle”. I am glad you used the word OLD. For arguments sake I will follow your line of thought. Indeed the wine was old and had lost its sparkle. It was not a product of / for this Yuga. It did not conform to the rules of this Yuga. It had gone stale and had lost its appeal. It had become a cause of suffocation for the general public by those in power (Brahmins). It was used as a tool to prey on the fears of the general public. But Guru Nanak FERMENTED it by adding the missing ingredient “Naam” and sprinkled the Divine Essence all over it and made it fit for the new Era. Now after all that hard work would you put it back into the same Dirty Old Bottle. No my brother it is indeed worthy of a New Bottle. The very Bottle and the Wine now Sparkles into the sore eyes of the old system.

    I shall respond to your others comments when I find some time. In the meantime I would humbly request all the Brahmgyaanis, those with “Third Eye Open” and the Esteemed Know Alls to come forth and respond to this Challenge.

    The above is my humble understanding and apologise if I have hurt anyone’s feelings.
     
  12. GuruPyaara

    GuruPyaara
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Ajnabi ji,

    Not fair, coming today after how many days- 8 days and discarding all what we all murakhs together tried to do. thnks. The first post like this one was a long time back by our veer vinod, now on this post i see one on 5/6 - to that Surinder ji and japjisahib ji replied. Then starting yesterdays post by vinod, kds1980 ji, surinder ji, and myself replied, then again vinod ji replied to that surinder ji replied. Since you are not satisfied and calling for your brahmgyany fellows I think all of us should have let this person sing his antisikh gagagaggaga and wait for Sirimaan/Sirimati Ekmusafir Ajnabi ji. So that he/she WILL SHOW UP WITH HIS OWN SHAAN AND HIS BIG PIPER AFTER 8/10 DAYS or may be later TO PUT THIS WAR TO AN END. Ajnabi ji battlefield is open for you from my side now, as I am backing out for a while (cannot say anything for others) and will wait and see your kaarnaama.

    By the way Sir/Madam I want to know who are the brahmgyany fellows of yours you are calling upon. Your own ego itself seems to be flying onto the seventh heavans, where will be the other's? If I am understanding it right, it is you more than vinod who wants to have a big fight instead of solving the matter otherwise
     
  13. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Guru Pyaara ji,

    This is an attempt to serious make people scratch thier heads and see which directions we are all going. No offence is intended to anyone but it is a call for those who really believe they are the masters of Sikh Faith to come forward and prove themselves or to accept that we are all students here in this forum. So far in the posts above no one has attempted to answer the questions. One item is being taken out of the entire thread and even that is not given full consideration.

    It is not a case of just shutting ones mouth or chase one out of the forum. The questions posed are real. They affect all of us in present and future. Let us be constructive and give positive feed back. We will all learn from each other.

    I do not think Vinod has come to this forum with malice. If he has then we shall deal with it accordingly. In the meanwhile search for answers so that we can show him that we do have brains in Sikhism.

    The fight we should have is with ourselves with our bodies, our own concious which shall be of benefit and not outside with each other. If you consider yourself a sikh (no offence intended) then join me to defend Sikhism. Live and Learn.
     
  14. Lionchild

    Lionchild
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Well i wouldn't say that "sikhism" is an evolved form of hinduism, thought there are influences from both islam and hindu faith (of those, they are practical ones!).

    Sikhi is part of the dharmic religions, and has some influences from the abrahamic islam. With that said, that is where the comparisons ends.

    sikhs don't worship stones, nor have as many rituals as hindu.

    The one thing i do agree on is the karma part, both the cause-and-effect as well as law of attraction are part of this.
     
  15. ekmusafir_ajnabi

    ekmusafir_ajnabi
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Lionchild

    Please support your comments with evidence.
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    dear vinod

    it looks like you have no answer to my reply.the reason i kept my reply short because it is better
    both the debaters and readers and i very know that it is not a complete reply.now i will try to reply to your other questions.

    dear vinod

    first of all sikhs are considered minority in india.they can open their college,schools and provide reservation to sikh students while hindu's can't do this.now coming to
    your other question that sikhs are load on society it is total ********.the recent survey conducted by ibn shows that sikhs have the highest income among the four religions.

    Muslims spend more than Hindu peers-Indicators-Economy-News-The Economic Times

    Hindu
    61,423
    Muslim
    58,420
    Christian
    70,644
    Sikh
    91,153
    Others
    101,105

    now tell me how could a community whose income is 50% higher than hindu's is load on society?

    first of all majority of people in india caste their vote on the basis of caste,region,language.as sikhs are only 2% of india's population do you think that non-sikh population of india will vote for a religious sikh.i don't think so.you also mentioned
    that manmohan singh is not in religion i can also say that majority of hindu politicians are not much in their religion.look at the plight of bjp it is considered as untouchable
    by other seculer parties because alliance with bjp will cost them muslim votes.
    some of the so called hindu politicians could even break their back in their muslim appeasing policies.last year when haj minister of uttar pradesh issued fatwa against danish cartoon makers very few so called hindu politicians have guts to criticise him.
    so if you beleive that manmohan is not much in religion so he should not be counted
    as sikh politician then you should also not count majority of hindu politicians as hindu's and accept that hinduism is more burden on hindu's.

    i think it is enough for today.
     
  17. gurc

    gurc
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    hi Vinod ji


    Below is a article
    Sat Sri Akal
     
  18. lovely_silky

    lovely_silky
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    waheguru waheguru waheguru waheguru, Ajnabi ne ta had hi lah ditti.


    no wonder they say-

    sachai chhup nahee saktee bnavat ke asoolon se
    ke khushbu aa nahi sakti kabhi kagaz ke foolon se


    your words sir/mam show your Perfect Alliance to the antisikh mentality. Anyways, Can eternal truth be fermented/aged/contained? Our Guru are providing the humanity 'the key to the eternal truth'. your analogy of old - new - wine - bottle is totally baseless. On top of that you are challenging others knowledge, Wow Ajnabi Wow.
    Waheguru sadaa to apne bhagta di aap rakhda aya. kise bande da hankaar kuj nahi kar sakda ajbani ji
    ta ko dhokha keha biaapai jaa ko out tuhari
     
  19. simpy

    simpy
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Respected Sadh Sangat Ji,

    following are some more quotes posted by Vinod ji from another thread- may help in communicating with him...

    forgive me please
     
  20. GuruPyaara

    GuruPyaara
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    Ajnabi ji,

    thanks for the offer BUT MY ANSWER TO YOU IS A BIG NO. By any means I will never join those who are trying to encase Guru Ji's ETERNAL WISDOM in mere bottles and comparing it to wine :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: and saying Guru ji fermented it :}--}: :}--}: :}--}: . i will fight it in my own way, dont need your help.
     
  21. babboo2007

    babboo2007
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    Re: Sikhism : An old wine in -New Bottle

    joint venture, isnt it. 'VINOD + EKMUSAFIR AJNABI'.
     

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