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Sikhi To The Max developers

Discussion in 'Information Technology' started by gsingh2011, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    There are a lot of people on these forums, so I was wondering if anyone knows who the developers of the Sikhi To the Max (http://www.sikhitothemax.com/updates.htm) software were?

    I've tried to contact them multiple times through the email listed on their site, but I haven't received a reply. It looks like the project was abandoned in 2008.

    I've noticed some gurbani errors and some other general bugs in the software, and as a software developer, I want to fix them. I'd be willing to maintain the project/make the code open source.

    So does anyone have any contact information for the developers, or know where to look or who to ask for it?
     
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  3. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    I wish I could help you gsingh ji. You are probably correct about the date when the site may have been abandoned. I tried about 2 weeks ago to use some of their resources and got to dead links. Maybe someone here will know the story and how to contact the developers. I don't know.

    p/s The site does not seem to be using unicode font. Therefore the special fonts in which SGGS is written make any Gurbani quotes unreadable here. If you are able to contact anyone you might want to suggest that change.
     
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  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    G singh ji,

    I have sent your post to my nephew Bhajneet Singh who happens to know the founders or I think he does. Let's see what he says.
     
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  5. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    I've noticed that too. If I get anywhere with finding the creators/maintainers, I'll see what I can do.

    Thank you!
     
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  6. enn

    enn
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    I might be able to help you here.
    I am not a developer of STM. However I have reversed the software (for personal use). I might be able to incorporate your changes and make the changes available to everyone.
     
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  7. singhbj

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  8. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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  9. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    gsingh ji I would like to help if you make the project open source. We can host it on Github!
     
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  10. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    This has been my plan from the start! I'm a huge supporter of open source and I'm proficient with Git and Github. But first we need to get the source.
     
  11. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
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    I think iGurbani and Gurbani DB were aimed at making the shabad DB open and more easily correctable. Rather than going after UI, we must tackle the issues in Shabad data..
     
  12. enn

    enn
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    Not really, you just need the DB. I can add your changes in the DB and make that file available to all.
     
  13. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    @Kanwaljit Singh: How open are those databases for other to submit corrections to? If they are doing that well, there's no reason for us to do what's already being done. If not, then we can use that as a starting point for some type of open source database, although I have no idea how that would work (on Github you can submit pull requests for code to get new code easily merged, but databases aren't really code...).

    And in any case, we need a good GUI client for presenting the data, unless there's a way to switch the database that STTM currently uses.

    And the contact information would still help, because there are many things that could be improved in the actual software and there are some bugs to fix (printing never worked for me...). Also, the website needs a major update, especially the fonts.

    @enn: Are you referring to your reverse engineered DB file? Could you describe a bit more the process of modifying the DB and what format it's in?
     
  14. enn

    enn
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    It is a password protected mdb file.
     
  15. enn

    enn
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    We cannot just start doing that, it is unethical, unless we have the permission from original developers team. I have the whole project reverse engineered. That is to say I have the whole source code.

    However, if you are interested in creating another one, I suggest you take a look at http://www.gurbanidb.org/
     
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  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    enn ji

    This discussion is taking a turn that you yourself have pinpointed.The matter of ethics. My understanding of open source does not include helping yourself to code unless the original creators have openly declared their intention to be part of an open-source initiative. It does not matter if the code is locked up and can be hacked, or if the code is wide open. By analogy... if I leave my car keys in the ignition and the car is stolen, I am not paying attention but the car is not there for the taking, except on TV shows. Let's come up with a good reason among us for keeping the discussion going.

    Clarification is needed. The open source concept is not understood by most people.

    Also, I checked the gurbaniDB website. Who is to say that improvements made in the future by "contributers" to the modified database will be any better or any more accurate than those already there (by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa)?

    Looking for your input and input from others. Thank you.
     
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    #15 spnadmin, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  17. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Disclaimer:

    When a web-based project is called an "open-source" initiative its creators clearly say as much on the home page dedicated to the project. They ask the developer (programmer) community to submit improvements, and better code for the good of the project. The creators often support forums at their site where everyone can discuss their proposals and work out bugs. Two things are made clear. The project was intended from the beginning to be based on collaboration and sharing of talent. There is no financial gain connected to the work in progress. It is not clear from this discussion whether we are talking about a true open-source environment. SPN makes no claim in support of individuals' comments on this thread. Nor does SPN support any plans discussed here. So far an ethical issue has been correctly raised. The thread will be monitored closely.
     
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    #16 spnadmin, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  18. enn

    enn
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    It is a matter of license under which the content is available. If I can recall correctly, STM is under strict license.

    By your analogy, it is dependent on the law of the city you live in. California has a law that if you find some thing, you are bound to try to find the owner and return it, Chandigarh on the other hand, in the same situation, wouldn't give a damn.

    GurbaniDB is under a very liberal license. Quality Control is different in community from license issues. As long as few good men are involved, this can be under control.


    For the issue at hand, If I get the changes, I can put those in DB and distribute the DB, in the same format as expected by STM. However, to give away the keys, without permission from original team. I am not that comfortable with it. Although I have dropped enough hints for someone to try that.
     
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  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Thanks enn ji

    If I am not mistaken STM originates in England.

    The legality of nicking code is different from the legal situation of a forum that hosts conversation about it.

    SPN is under Internet law of the country and local jurisdiction where the servers are located. We cannot host a conversation that can be interpreted to encourage illegal activity. Hence the disclaimer.

    The example of the automobile was an analogy to the ethical problem, not the legal one. An ethical problem is under law of the universe.

    Internet laws in India are so vague that legal consequences are something we here at SPN consider on a daily basis.

    Yes GurbamoDB os a good example of an open source community.

    Then of course there is another issue that all of us need to be sensitive about. There are readers who would not understand what open-source is and think the discussion is about theft of intellectual property.
     
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    #18 spnadmin, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  20. enn

    enn
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    as long as discussion does not turn to specific of how to and what to, imo we havent crosssed the line.
     
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  21. gsingh2011

    gsingh2011 United States
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    For some strange reason I haven't been getting email notifications for the last few comments...

    Anyways, I have an update. I was able to contact Tarsem Singh by email, and this is his response to my request to open source the application:
    While this is great news, I'd still prefer the application to be open source, and he's made no mention of that. After the release, I'll bug him about this again, as well as about updating the site.

    Thanks for everyone's help and input!
     
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