Sikhi - The End Game

[Luckysingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

OK. The japji sahib recitation may be a little extreme. But many of us can hear a line or two of bani and immediately place it correctly to japji sahib if it is from there. Perhaps it should read that an enemy agent can't recall the 10 names of the gurus. Maybe even in order from 1-10. Any one who has been to the gurdwara enough times should be very familiar with the ardaas and from the beginning of the ardaas they would be more than familiar with all gurus mentioned in succesive order to the Guru Granth Sahib.

Lucky Singh

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

What's the source?

IMO it's all nonsense, I found myself literally laughing out loud (I had to inhibit it since everyone's sleeping). I mean I do see some logic in not knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart. If one were to do Nitnem everyday one would know at least one bani by heart but this does not mean they are enemies. Some people don't do nitnem, they do simran. Or they study Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and don't have a routine or some structure in their life where they did not get to the outcome of knowing Jap ji Sahib by heart.

If it's serious, I think seeing things is terms of allies and enemies is kind of messed up. It does not suit a Seeker of truth. One who pursues truth will grab wisdom wherever it comes from. He does not set-up the world in which he is fighting some enemy. No one is an enemy, everyone is a vessel for wisdom to flow through. Wisdom flows through all the time out of everyone. Who can be an enemy to him if everyone is guiding him with wisdom?


Anyways, what made sense to you?

BhagatSinghji,

you have clearly failed the test lol

Monty Python's "Life of Brian" (Stoned to death...) - YouTube

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Harry ji
What test is this? I didn't know I was being tested :S

OK. The japji sahib recitation may be a little extreme. But many of us can hear a line or two of bani and immediately place it correctly to japji sahib if it is from there. Perhaps it should read that an enemy agent can't recall the 10 names of the gurus. Maybe even in order from 1-10. Any one who has been to the gurdwara enough times should be very familiar with the ardaas and from the beginning of the ardaas they would be more than familiar with all gurus mentioned in succesive order to the Guru Granth Sahib.

Lol

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

BhagatSinghji,

The Japji sahib test of course!

I have a few more tests of my own to expose enemy agents

1. Do they have non sikh names like Khan/Patel
2. Do they keep saying 'testing testing' and tapping their ear
3. Do they avoid Beef/Pork
4. Do they have RSS tattoos on their arms
5. Can they recite Japji Sahib whilst drinking a glass of water simultaneously
6. Can they name all ten Gurus, all ten Gurus wives, all children, and at least 5 cousins
7. Does their turban look so big that it could be hiding a hidden camera, or possibly an entire TV crew

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Hahaha

I used to know it by heart OK!!! !!! !!!

 

[Parma]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

lol Hahahahha

Good one Ambarsaria ji!

For those who don't get it (Parma ji I am talking to you), Ambarsaria ji does not side with the rigid Abrahamic structures of religion. So when he puts this list out, he is just kidding.

Ambarsaria ji does not side with terrorists either so when he labels everyone, who is against this way of thinking, as ENEMIES... he is clearly joking.
Ambarsaria ji does not see himself as the supreme judge of deciding who is a Sikh and who isn't, he is quite humble with an all time low ego so when he does that here, when he acts like some kind of an egotistical tw*t, some angry paranoid man, he is just pulling your leg.
Ambarsaria ji, believes in being fearless thus fear inducing tactics such as this list is his way of amusement.

Make sense now? It is purely amusement. Don't get caught in the seriousness otherwise you'll come out very fearful, paranoid, angry and hostile; you will lose touch with sources of understanding and will come out with a very horrible black and white view of reality.

To the moderator these people are just annoying, for the sake of disruption they have not added anything to this debate to contribute to sikhism, apart from making themselves look foolish. Mr Ambarsaria ji, maybe you were not joking but mr bhagat regards you as a joke, I would regard mr bhagat ji as the joke he dont understand English. I am talking about bringing sikhi together and that guy talks about me and you he has not got sense

Sorry to be blunt! Bhagat ji you are a lot idiot! Who jokes about their views and there idea's man. No one's going believe a word you people say now, as you said your just jokers on the net passing time. Bhagat ji I am talking to you dont mention my name in your posts please, as you clearly dont have the capacity to converse with it your not fit too. I dont get it. Obviously i am not a fool and I dont discuss foolishness. So sorry if i dont get you!

 

[sanj007]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Just a few questions:
1) If Indian govtn wanted to destroy Sikhism, then why have a Sikh as PM, dont make sense, as this will only publicise Sikhism in India and the world, its the last thing you do. Would Hitler have a Jewish Prime Minister or even in the cabinet, or his ilk? never
2) Where were the protests from Non Sikhs when PM Singh became PM, not to forget many Hindu faith voted for him?
3) There is a just cause for justice for 1984, and fact Nehru went back onhis word to the Sikh leaders after great evil of partition, but then this Nehur also betrayed those that voted for Congress as majority of people did not want partition. Nevertheless fair resolution to Sikh demands need addressing.

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Dogra ji thanks for your post. Some comments,

Just a few questions:
1) If Indian govtn wanted to destroy Sikhism, then why have a Sikh as PM, dont make sense, as this will only publicise Sikhism in India and the world, its the last thing you do. Would Hitler have a Jewish Prime Minister or even in the cabinet, or his ilk? never
One person does not make a community. There are lot of Sikhs acting as non-Sikhs in their activities. So it is not as black and white as you state. Good argument or comment though.

2) Where were the protests from Non Sikhs when PM Singh became PM, not to forget many Hindu faith voted for him?
Why should there be protests as Sikhs did not care and Hindus don't mind if a Sikh is there who acts like Hindus or carried forward with their agenda. In this case Congress agenda.

3) There is a just cause for justice for 1984,
This is most disgusting comment. This was a planned attack on Sikhism and nothing else. Of course led by the favorite daughter of India.

and fact Nehru went back onhis word to the Sikh leaders after great evil of partition, but then this Nehru also betrayed those that voted for Congress as majority of people did not want partition.
At its very core, Congress is driven by Arya Samaj as mentioned in another post. So the future with such Congress and BJP is equally bad for all minorities in India.

Nevertheless fair resolution to Sikh demands need addressing.

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!

In fact Northern India would be like Bangladesh and would have become part of Pakistan.

Regards.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!

In fact Northern India would be like Bangladesh and would have become part of Pakistan.

This comment is so true and real that many don't even realise this.
The simple privelages that many take for granted are thanks to brave sikhs. I'm not saying any hindus never played parts in bravery, but not many changed the course of history the way the sikhs did.
Rather than be recognized for this, instead they are trying to shun the sikh nation.

Waheguru

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!


This comment is so true and real that many don't even realise this.
The simple privelages that many take for granted are thanks to brave sikhs. I'm not saying any hindus never played parts in bravery, but not many changed the course of history the way the sikhs did.
Rather than be recognized for this, instead they are trying to shun the sikh nation.

Waheguru

Nope not entirely true. What we are never told is that 99% of the Khalsa forces are coming from Hindus who are taking amrit. In families first born son was initiated into Khalsa and was expected to die for the Guru. What we are also not told about is our Muslim allies and mercenary armies during Guru Gobind Singh ji's time (especially battle of Bhangani, a few Udasis also fought in the Battle of Bhangani.) and Muslim infantry and artillery units during Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji's time.

The Marathas (much larger than the Sikh empire) were also weakening the Mughal power from the South and the Afghans from the North.

If it was not for the brave Sikhs of past, the Hindus in North India would have been converted!

It was actually Hindus who propagated this saying as gratitude. But in today's times it has been used against them by some Sikhs to demonstrate (and shove down their throats) the superiority of "Sikhism" (in quotes because Sikhism defined by the ego is not Sikhism). A belief has been propagated that because Sikhs are superior, Hindus are trying to sabotage them. "They are all conspiring against us." "Evil Brahmin conspiracy to destroy Sikhism" These are false beliefs that comes out of ignorance and leads to nothing but paranoia, rage, hostility and further ignorance.

Believing is seeing.

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Thank you for that information Bhagat ji.
I was aware that forces were coming from hindus taking the new sikh faith but wasn't aware of any figures or percentages.
My reference and understanding was for the bravery of estabilished new sikhs, that already were standing up to muslim conversion for the sake of other hindus.

I will try and learn a few more facts and figures with regards to this issue and thanks again for highlighting this point.

Lucky Singh

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Bhagat Singh ji I know you are talking history and living in the past. Past was very good in many ways but that is not 2012. The pendulam is swinging towards contraction of Sikhism through Hinduism and not expansion through Hinduism. I have some comments,

Nope not entirely true. What we are never told is that 99% of the Khalsa forces are coming from Hindus who are taking amrit.
From your understanding how many Hindus took Amrit in 2011?

In families first born son was initiated into Khalsa and was expected to die for the Guru. What we are also not told about is our Muslim allies and mercenary armies during Guru Gobind Singh ji's time (especially battle of Bhangani, a few Udasis also fought in the Battle of Bhangani.) and Muslim infantry and artillery units during Maharaja Ranjit Singh ji's time.
Those days of thankfulness are long gone. From your understanding how many Hindus offered their first son to be a Sikh in 2011? Now it is the thankless times from Hindus. I don't know if you have updated yourself.

The Marathas (much larger than the Sikh empire) were also weakening the Mughal power from the South and the Afghans from the North.

It was actually Hindus who propagated this saying as gratitude.
What saying?

But in today's times it has been used against them by some Sikhs to demonstrate (and shove down their throats) the superiority of "Sikhism" (in quotes because Sikhism defined by the ego is not Sikhism). A belief has been propagated that because Sikhs are superior,
Nobody says Sikhs are superior most level headed just say Sikhs are not Hindus! Where is the error in that?

Hindus are trying to sabotage them. "They are all conspiring against us." "Evil Brahmin conspiracy to destroy Sikhism" These are false beliefs that comes out of ignorance and leads to nothing but paranoia, rage, hostility and further ignorance.
I am sorry was it Muslims who killed tens of thousands of Sikhs in the name of danger to India in 1984 and the eighties and nineties. You should re-check the 1984 section articles at spn.

Believing is seeing.
What are you seeing as I see shrinking Sikhism with sabotage and concerted effort of the majority in India?

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Manni Singh 85]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

99% Hindus became Sikhs first and then they took Amrit and become Khalsa.

I may be wrong. Khima karna

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

99% Hindus became Sikhs first and then they took Amrit and become Khalsa.

I may be wrong. Khima karna

I don't believe there is any debate about the origin for Sikhs to be predominantly from Hindus. But once they are Sikh they are Sikh. The creation of some dualities as realities in this regards is distasteful to say the least and a rejection of what our Guru ji created and did for us. Many a thousands of Sikhs who died to so protect are also distastefully disposed off through such mindsets of Hidnu-Sikh virtual dualities promotion.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Ambarsaria ji,
Perhaps the problems we face are misunderstood, meaning what we think is the problem isn't the problem and thus the solutions that are being implemented do not address what the actual problem is.

I am not living in the past as I do understand the situation in 2012. What I am doing is encouraging an understanding of the past, a correct understanding of the past so that solutions to modern problems can be tackled under the guidance of the correct understanding. The past allows us to understand who we are and if we don't understand that then we don't understand much.

From your understanding how many Hindus offered their first son to be a Sikh [ Khalsa] in 2011?

From the Hindu perspective there is now no need to join the Khalsa military order.

Nobody says Sikhs are superior most level headed just say Sikhs are not Hindus! Where is the error in that?

Not too sure what that means any more. It seems it's apparent meaning is not its actual meaning.

Hindu can mean one whose ancestors are from the Hind (India).

Hindu can also mean one who follows Hinduism. But Hinduism is not a religion, it is a collection of traditions (with differing philosophies, perspectives, practices, etc). You cannot technically follow Hinduism. So Hindu in the sense of following Hinduism is a meaningless label. Now Hinduism has this guru-sikh propagation mechanism whereby a sikh seeks a guru under whose guidance he can learn about the guru's tradition, his particular philosophy, beliefs and set of practices and work through it to make his life better and to achieve mukti. All the various traditions were spread by gurus this way. E.g. the Bhakti tradition in Northern India: Guru Ramanand ji passed on his beliefs to his sikhs, one of which was Bhagat Kabir (who never became a Guru), and Bhagat Kabir ji along with other Bhakti saints passed on the Bhakti tradition to Guru Nanak Dev ji who passes them down to Guru Angad Dev ji and so on. Remember the tradition is spreading so there are other Gurus and Sants who are propagating these beliefs throughout North India. Guru Nanak and his successors start to gain more popularity however especially when the latter 5 enter into politics and military.

Bhagat Kabir ji (1440–1518) was the Sikh of Guru Ramanand ji (1400-1476), who was the Sikh of Guru Raghavanand ji (or Acharya Raghavanand), who was the Sikh of... (don't know at this point)... they followed the Vishitadvaita philosophy of Guru Ramanuja ji (or Ramanujacharya; 1017-1137) who was the Sikh of Guru Kancipurna ji and so on and so forth.

Sant Ramanand ji as he is referred to, was a significant proponent of the Bhakti movement in Northern India, he influenced a lot of people. His disciples include the following Bhagats whose bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji: Dhanna ji , Pipa ji, Ravidas ji, Sain ji. The beliefs of Guru Nanak Dev ji and his successors can be traced back as such. It is a continuing tradition.

This is the reality of the situation.

I am sorry was it Muslims who killed tens of thousands of Sikhs in the name of danger to India in 1984 and the eighties and nineties. You should re-check the 1984 section articles at spn.

I am sorry was it not the Hindus who were saving Sikhs from the mobs aroused by a few Congress party members. I am sorry was it not the 20% Sikh Indian army (with a Sikh General) who were given the task to flush out the militants. I am sorry was it not the Sikh Punjab police who set-up the curfew, and who were going around looking for militants.

Things are not as black and white as you make them to be Ambarsaria ji. Look at ALL of the details.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

It seems that Sikhs have or are forgetting their zero-zero I mean point of Origin.
The problem is that we openly do not say that only Khalsa is a Sikh.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[sanj007]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

There is a just cause for justice for 1984,
This is most disgusting comment. This was a planned attack on Sikhism and nothing else. Of course led by the favorite daughter of India.

You have taken this completely the wrong way, am talking about just cause for justice to be met on those butchers who killed innocent human beings just for being Sikh, condemn the attack on the sacred Golden Temple.
Favourite daughter of India does not mean she has right to act in unjustful manner as she did, so she after that is not favourite daughter. You see without Justice a nation does not move forward, and especially the people who have been affected by these barbaric acts.

One person does not make a community. There are lot of Sikhs acting as non-Sikhs in their activities. So it is not as black and white as you state.

One person indeed does not, but that is not the point, if you have a plan you do not put forward the leadership of the country to people you are against, as it does not add up, it is contrary to your said position therefore is not the case.

Why should there be protests as Sikhs did not care and Hindus don't mind if a Sikh is there who acts like Hindus or carried forward with their agenda. In this case Congress agenda.

Hold on, if there was a movement against Sikhs then surely there would have been protests, this assetion of yours that PM Singh acts like a hindu is yours not the vast majority of people of India, there are not clued up, or what is going on, they just see a SIKH person as leader of their nation, and what thoughts go through their minds, if they dont like this they would protest, but were there any?

At its very core, Congress is driven by Arya Samaj as mentioned in another post. So the future with such Congress and BJP is equally bad for all minorities in India.

Congress and arya samaj, find that funny, congress are definately not hindu party, what acts give you cause to believe this?

You see end of the day, justice for all citizens regardless of faith, colour or whatever is required, people are not tied to the nation, the nation is served by people who are corrupt, hence when India has leaders who are not corrupt then proper justice will come, Indian justice is sadly lacking behind UK, check the pitiable state of the Kashmir pandits refugees in their own country!

 

[Ambarsaria]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Dogra ji thanks for your post. Some comments.

You have taken this completely the wrong way, am talking about just cause for justice to be met on those butchers who killed innocent human beings just for being Sikh, condemn the attack on the sacred Golden Temple.
My apoliogies I did take it the wrong way. I read your post as though you supported attack on the Golden Temple and subsequent to 1984 events as justifiable because Gandhi was killed by Sikhs.

Favorite daughter of India does not mean she has right to act in unjustful manner as she did, so she after that is not favourite daughter.
There is a wonderful post available on the web which shows how much institutions (it may even be posted by someone at spn) , monuments and programs are specifically controlled and named after the Gandhi clan. So functionally the Gandhis are the revered or limelight family.

You see without Justice a nation does not move forward, and especially the people who have been affected by these barbaric acts.
I agree.

One person indeed does not, but that is not the point, if you have a plan you do not put forward the leadership of the country to people you are against, as it does not add up, it is contrary to your said position therefore is not the case.
Dogra ji I disagree. This is called manipulation. They showed a Sikh Army commander being the lead in attack on the Golden Temple. Same is done all over the world. It is controlled manipulative and puppet leadership. Manmohan Singh is a perfect fall guy whenever Rahul comes to save Mother India for the bad deeds done by a Sikh Prime Minister.

Hold on, if there was a movement against Sikhs then surely there would have been protests, this assetion of yours that PM Singh acts like a hindu is yours not the vast majority of people of India, there are not clued up, or what is going on, they just see a SIKH person as leader of their nation, and what thoughts go through their minds, if they dont like this they would protest, but were there any?
This is political packaging. Whether the Congress wants to malign Manmohan Singh they will create these agitations. That day i snot too far into the future.

Congress and arya samaj, find that funny, congress are definitely not Hindu party, what acts give you cause to believe this?
Congress is Gandhis. Nothing is more Arya Samaj than Gandhis. They claim to be secular and democratic we know how much that is!

You see end of the day, justice for all citizens regardless of faith, colour or whatever is required, people are not tied to the nation, the nation is served by people who are corrupt, hence when India has leaders who are not corrupt then proper justice will come,
I agree

Indian justice is sadly lacking behind UK, check the pitiable state of the Kashmir pandits refugees in their own country!
Pitiable state is relative. Think about the thousand's and thousands killed in the name of peace and security in India since 1947. It will show the number of minorities (Sikhs and Muslims) just overwhelm any small number of Hindus killed or hurt. You need to see this. I understand the official line is these are all bad people and that is why they were killed? Is it possible they simply wanted just the same way you are espousing it for Kashmiri Pandits.

Regards.

 

[sanj007]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

There is a wonderful post available on the web which shows how much institutions (it may even be posted by someone at spn) , monuments and programs are specifically controlled and named after the Gandhi clan. So functionally the Gandhis are the revered or limelight family.

Well, Indira has some weight due to her response to Bangladesh 1971, when plan to kill 3 million was ordered by President yaha Khan himself, was put into action and over 10 million refugees and hindu community targeted occured. But her emergency powers and attack on sacred Goldem Temple and Rajiv Ghandhi lack of action during Nov 84, together with more relevations about swiss bank accounts, and the dynasty garbage has left many people against this family.

This is called manipulation. They showed a Sikh Army commander being the lead in attack on the Golden Temple. Same is done all over the world. It is controlled manipulative and puppet leadership. Manmohan Singh is a perfect fall guy whenever Rahul comes to save Mother India for the bad deeds done by a Sikh Prime Minister.

Well, PM Singh was voted in by the people, fact that he is a Sikh, to the vast majority of voters means they did not allow this fact to not vote for him, and there also were no protests against a Sikh being PM, so how can Rahul save the day, any misaction by PM Singh will not be treated because he is Sikh but because he himself misplaned, but remember it was PM Singh who in early 90s opened Indias economy which helped India and that will not be forgotten!
You simply dont put people to top positions if u are against that community, another e.g. General Joginder Singh top chief of the army, Cricket Captain MS Dhoni, these appointments dont just happen if there a master plan against a community, and what about memorial to the Ninth master recently, what signal does this send out? More to the point Congress leadders know a very bad deeds occured during 1984, so in their own way they are trying to correct, but problem is they are corrupt so full justice is not being meted out as yet to those butchers like Tytler and Sajan Kumar.

This is political packaging. Whether the Congress wants to malign Manmohan Singh they will create these agitations. That day i snot too far into the future.

Again disagree, only maligning will be done if lining their swiss bank account is not done, this is their main aim, they are corrupt!

Congress is Gandhis. Nothing is more Arya Samaj than Gandhis. They claim to be secular and democratic we know how much that is!

Again can you show acts and links that verify your claim, as i find it laughable that u claim this, as they are not Hindu party. India is not a perfect secular democracy as UK, but imporatnt point is that it is on the pathway of secular democracy which is important.

Pitiable state is relative. Think about the thousand's and thousands killed in the name of peace and security in India since 1947. It will show the number of minorities (Sikhs and Muslims) just overwhelm any small number of Hindus killed or hurt. You need to see this. I understand the official line is these are all bad people and that is why they were killed? Is it possible they simply wanted just the same way you are espousing it for Kashmiri Pandits.

Again condemn all violence against innocent human beings regardless of faith equally. Bad people are those who kill innocent human beings, and these bad people are in all communities. Fact is political parties allowed 1984 and gujurat 2002. Though 2002 was started differently but not stopped when it could have been

You also need to see that kashmiri pandits deaths and expulsion is not a nimor event, they are a minority in Kashmir valley, now an extreme minority, check other minority areas in India like kerala what events are happening there, check Hyderabad and recent proposed banning of Ram event which has prompted Bhagat Singh Kranti sena to respond.
Want the same for the Sikh community Muslim community and Kashmir pandits.
Hindus have brutalised for 800 years, still in Bangladesh population of Hindus diminishes, Pakistan regular cases of forced conversions, but realise India has a lot to do to get its house in order.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Re: Sikhi - End Game

Whatever. I will continue as I have done for many years. When a Hindu dares to disrespect Sikhs in my presence, , I will look him (in my experience, it has always been a man) squarely in the eyes and say, "If it weren't for us your name would be Mohammed and you'd be married to Fatima and Miriam and maybe a couple more."

I admit that's a conversation stopper and not very diplomatic, but it has the advantage of being the truth.

Our brave brother, Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana, is to be hanged in a few days. Perhaps it would be good and useful to look at the present for a bit instead of just wandering around in the past and speculating on the future.

animatedkhanda1