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Islam Sikhi Islam

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by HannahBanana, Jul 8, 2007.

  1. HannahBanana

    HannahBanana
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    One question: Can a person be a Muslim and a Sikh at once? Like a Suslim or a Mikh (meek)? :rofl!!:

    Sorry if the joke is in poor taste. I'm serious in my question, though.
     
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  3. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    dear hannah

    welcome back.the straight answer to your question is no.if someone wants to strictly follow islam then he/she has to beleive that mohammed was last prophet,shariat laws,animal sacrifices,pilgrimage etc.and some these things are against sikhism.similarly if someone wants to follow sikhism then he/she has to beleive in teachings of guru granth sahib and some of them are against islam.anyway some sikhs beleive that a true sikh is already a true muslim.
     
  4. HannahBanana

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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    If the two are conflicting then how is this true?
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Islam means submission to god and sikhism too said that we should submit too god's will .
    Here is the shabad of guru nanak about who is true muslim.

    http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=140&english=t&id=5763#l5763
    ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    सलोकु मः १ ॥
    Salok mehlā 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:


    ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥
    मिहर मसीति सिदकु मुसला हकु हलालु कुराणु ॥
    Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ.
    Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran.


    ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥
    सरम सुंनति सीलु रोजा होहु मुसलमाणु ॥
    Saram sunaṯ sīl rojā hohu musalmāṇ.
    Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim.


    ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥
    करणी काबा सचु पीरु कलमा करम निवाज ॥
    Karṇī kābā sacẖ pīr kalmā karam nivāj.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.


    ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥
    तसबी सा तिसु भावसी नानक रखै लाज ॥१॥
    Ŧasbī sā ṯis bẖāvsī Nānak rakẖai lāj. ||1||
    Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1||

    so this is the defination of true muslim according to guru nanak.but if you ask any muslim scholar he will reject this defination.according to him a true muslim is one who goes to
    hajj,do animal sacrifice,read namaz etc.so the defination of true muslim is different of guru granth sahib than the defination of true muslim of islam.

    Btw hannah i just remembered that you already asked this question earlier and i too replied to you at that time.
     
  6. HannahBanana

    HannahBanana
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...


    :shock:I did??? lol well thanks again.
     
  7. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    The presence of God's grace is evident through the poetry of Bhagats Kabeer and Fareed. Mardana was Nanaak's ever present companion from boyhood until death. So many Sufi's sought refuge with the Gurus and some died along with Sikhs. There were those who were tortured by the Persian moghuls.

    This is a good refrain.
    Kar?? k?b? sac? p?r kalm? karam niv?j.
    Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant.

    And there is this vaar from Bhai Gurdas,

    Guru Nanak Dev Ji at Mecca.
    The Kazis and the Mullahs assembled to question Nanak on the subject of religion and God,
    Who has extended His Creation and no one can fathom the secrets of Nature.
    The muslim priests opened a book and asked him “ Who is superior – Hindu or Mussulman ?”
Baba Nanak answered “ Oh Hajis, without performance of good deeds, both Hindu and Muslims will lament
    Both will be denied shelter in God’s court on the basis of their respective religions alone.
    The colour of the flower called Kasumbh is washed away by water (so labels are fragile).
    The followers of both religions are quarrelling, but both of them are equal in the eyes of God.”
    The world has gone astray as it pursues the path of sin.



    P.S., for some reason kds' gurbani fonts don't work on every browser.
     
    #6 spnadmin, Jul 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2007
  8. masih

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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    i belived there is only one god who made every thing , only man made reglion to suit him self jesus was son of god who was send to die for our sins through his blood we can be forgiven
    he teach us how we should live our lives if we all folow his teaching there will be no war between man kind there will be no greed
     
  9. nkkhurana

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    Re: Sikh...Islam...


    The Sikh and muslim are not opposites.The followers of Guru Nanak were both.YOUR SIMPLE JOKE HAS SOME USEFUL MESSAGE ...many more may look at and remark..
     
  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    There are philosphical differences between sikhism and islam
     
  11. nkkhurana

    nkkhurana
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    There are differences and matches both ; so there is scope for togetherness and good relations or happy coexistence. Good to think on these lines and learn for GOOD friendly living..
     
  12. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    what you said sounds good but one of the undeniable fact is where muslims went they wiped out other religions.muslim countries hardly provide equal rights to non muslims on the hand they demand special rights in non muslim countries.as long this happens there is hardly any scope of unity between muslims and non muslims.so the ball is in muslim's court.
     
  13. Shaheediyan

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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Outwardly, all faiths are different, this is due to cultural and geographical sociological differences/influences on the practice of the faith.

    On a truely nij ghar (esoteric) level, Semetic and Indic faiths are the same - the nucleus of the faiths being submssion to the creator and the practice of Dhikr or Simran to realise and awaken the atma.

    To understand the true essence of both Semetic and Indic faiths, one must study the mystical teachings i.e. Gnostic, Kaballah, Sufi, certain Buddist and Vedanta Schools etc.

    The beauty of Sikhi is that Jagdi Jyot Aad sri Guru Granth Ji Maharaj is esoteric as is. It focuses on the deeper meanings of life, existence and salvation, rahter than focusing on the sharia.

    Thats not to say sharia, laws, maryada etc aren't important, they provide the discipline and solid foundation in our faith (as per the unique traditions of each faith), but the ultimate goal is realise and attune ourselves to the universal heartbeat, that is the goal for all who understand their respective faith.

    To understand the true Islam I would suggest you read up on Mauwlana Jalaluddin Rumi Sahib.

    Vaheguru
     
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Equal in the eyes of God does not mean the Same.

    On a truely nij ghar (esoteric) level, Semetic and Indic faiths are the same - the nucleus of the faiths being submssion to the creator and the practice of Dhikr or Simran to realise and awaken the atma. NO

    Respected Shaheediyan,

    As like-minded about submission and simran as these faiths may be, they are not at the core the same. As great the respect for bhagats and mystics two faiths may share, they are not the same faith. Certainly one can see this when one begins to ask additional questions.

    To understand the true essence of both Semetic and Indic faiths, one must study the mystical teachings i.e. Gnostic, Kaballah, Sufi, certain Buddist and Vedanta Schools etc. NO

    Questions that make a difference.
    The way these questions are answered is fundamental to understanding how and why Sikhism is not just like these other faiths.

    What is the nature of God?
    Is there one God?
    Is God an Immanent presence only; a Transcendent presence only; both Immanent and Transcendent?
    What is the relationship between God and his creation?
    Why did God create the Universe and all who are in it?
    What is the nature of Good and Evil?
    What is the reason for Good and Evil?
    Does God intervene in his Creation? How? When? Why?
    What is the purpose of life?
    What is the goal and meaning of life?
    What is the nature of life after death?
    What is morality?
    What is sin? How do we repair for our sins?
    Is there a Heaven? Is there a Hell?

    Sikhism answers these questions in ways that make it decidedly different from the other religions you mention. And answers to these questions do not pertain to superficial differences -- they go to the heart of the faith.

    The beauty of Sikhi is that Jagdi Jyot Aad sri Guru Granth Ji Maharaj is esoteric as is. It focuses on the deeper meanings of life, existence and salvation, rahter than focusing on the sharia.

    YES -- There is a rehit -- but how different it is from the codes of other religions.

     
  15. Shaheediyan

    Shaheediyan
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Dear Aad Ji,

    I would again ask you to spend some time studying the areas I have highlighted, your comments are based on the commonly known, stereotypical and misinterpreted versions of these faiths, exactly what I was trying to get you away from.

    As a tiny example, within mystical Islamic Shia schools, reincarnation is accepted.

    In Sufi schools, heaven and hell are understood metaphors, to explain the quality of ones present existence - and are believed to be the product of ones environment, experiences and kamai.

    Within these same schools, repition of Gods name and continuous God focus, is the key to uniting the soul with the supreme soul.
     
  16. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Shaheediayn,

    You think I stereotype. Methinks you oversimplify. Does Islam stand on its own feet or is it a sect of Judaism? This question doesn't even need to be asked. So? Start with anyone of the questions I have listed -- and see how much there is to say about each one -- and how different each religious path is fact is.

    Cheers to you.
     
  17. Shaheediyan

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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Ok Aad Ji, :

    Let's see what Maharaj says, the point of posting this shabd is to demonstrate my point, we are all focusing on the exoteric - the external differences and rituals, when Maharaj tells us that finding the truth and salvation is achieved through watering our spirit and devotion. This message is universal and relevant to all faiths, and practiced by the blessed of all faiths, in particular, note Satguru's references to Allah, Rasool and the Koran, to show the universality of Satguru's truth and all encompassing and diverse nature of God:

    ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ
    मारू महला ५ ॥
    Mārū mehlā 5.
    Maaroo, Fifth Mehl:

    ਅਲਹ ਅਗਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਬੰਦੇ
    अलह अगम खुदाई बंदे ॥
    Alah agam kẖuḏā­ī banḏė.
    O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,

    ਛੋਡਿ ਖਿਆਲ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਕੇ ਧੰਧੇ
    छोडि खिआल दुनीआ के धंधे ॥
    Cẖẖod kẖi­āl ḏunī­ā kė ḏẖanḏẖė.
    forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.

    ਹੋਇ ਪੈ ਖਾਕ ਫਕੀਰ ਮੁਸਾਫਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਕਬੂਲੁ ਦਰਾ ॥੧॥
    होइ पै खाक फकीर मुसाफरु इहु दरवेसु कबूलु दरा ॥१॥
    Ho­ė pai kẖāk fakīr musāfar ih ḏarvės kabūl ḏarā. ||1||
    Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveler on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||

    ਸਚੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਯਕੀਨ ਮੁਸਲਾ
    सचु निवाज यकीन मुसला ॥
    Sacẖ nivāj yakīn muslā.
    Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.

    ਮਨਸਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਹੁ ਆਸਾ
    मनसा मारि निवारिहु आसा ॥
    Mansā mār nivārihu āsā.
    Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.

    ਦੇਹ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਉਲਾਣਾ ਕਲਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਪਾਕੁ ਖਰਾ ॥੨॥
    देह मसीति मनु मउलाणा कलम खुदाई पाकु खरा ॥२॥
    Ḏėh masīṯ man ma­ulāṇā kalam kẖuḏā­ī pāk kẖarā. ||2||
    Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||

    ਸਰਾ ਸਰੀਅਤਿ ਲੇ ਕੰਮਾਵਹੁ
    सरा सरीअति ले कमावहु ॥
    Sarā sarī­aṯ lė kammāvahu.
    Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

    ਤਰੀਕਤਿ ਤਰਕ ਖੋਜਿ ਟੋਲਾਵਹੁ
    तरीकति तरक खोजि टोलावहु ॥
    Ŧarīkaṯ ṯarak kẖoj tolāvahu.
    Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

    ਮਾਰਫਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਹੁ ਅਬਦਾਲਾ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਹਕੀਕਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਾ ॥੩॥
    मारफति मनु मारहु अबदाला मिलहु हकीकति जितु फिरि न मरा ॥३॥
    Mārfaṯ man mārahu abḏālā milhu hakīkaṯ jiṯ fir na marā. ||3||
    Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||

    ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਦਿਲ ਮਾਹਿ ਕਮਾਹੀ
    कुराणु कतेब दिल माहि कमाही ॥
    Kurāṇ kaṯėb ḏil māhi kamāhī.
    Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;

    ਦਸ ਅਉਰਾਤ ਰਖਹੁ ਬਦ ਰਾਹੀ
    दस अउरात रखहु बद राही ॥
    Ḏas a­urāṯ rakẖahu baḏ rāhī.
    restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.

    ਪੰਚ ਮਰਦ ਸਿਦਕਿ ਲੇ ਬਾਧਹੁ ਖੈਰਿ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਕਬੂਲ ਪਰਾ ॥੪॥
    पंच मरद सिदकि ले बाधहु खैरि सबूरी कबूल परा ॥४॥
    Pancẖ maraḏ siḏak lė bāḏẖhu kẖair sabūrī kabūl parā. ||4||
    Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. ||4||

    ਮਕਾ ਮਿਹਰ ਰੋਜਾ ਪੈ ਖਾਕਾ
    मका मिहर रोजा पै खाका ॥
    Makā mihar rojā pai kẖākā.
    Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.

    ਭਿਸਤੁ ਪੀਰ ਲਫਜ ਕਮਾਇ ਅੰਦਾਜਾ
    भिसतु पीर लफज कमाइ अंदाजा ॥
    Bẖisaṯ pīr lafaj kamā­ė anḏājā.
    Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.

    ਹੂਰ ਨੂਰ ਮੁਸਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇਆ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਅਲਹ ਆਲਾ ਹੁਜਰਾ ॥੫॥
    हूर नूर मुसकु खुदाइआ बंदगी अलह आला हुजरा ॥५॥
    Hūr nūr musak kẖuḏā­i­ā banḏagī alah ālā hujrā. ||5||
    God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||
    ਸਚੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਕਾਜੀ
    सचु कमावै सोई काजी ॥
    Sacẖ kamāvai so­ī kājī.
    He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.

    ਜੋ ਦਿਲੁ ਸੋਧੈ ਸੋਈ ਹਾਜੀ
    जो दिलु सोधै सोई हाजी ॥
    Jo ḏil soḏẖai so­ī hājī.
    He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.

    ਸੋ ਮੁਲਾ ਮਲਊਨ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ਸੋ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਧਰਾ ॥੬॥
    सो मुला मलऊन निवारै सो दरवेसु जिसु सिफति धरा ॥६॥
    So mulā mala­ūn nivārai so ḏarvės jis sifaṯ ḏẖarā. ||6||
    He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||

    ਸਭੇ ਵਖਤ ਸਭੇ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਲਾ
    सभे वखत सभे करि वेला ॥
    Sabẖė vakẖaṯ sabẖė kar vėlā.
    Always, at every moment,

    ਖਾਲਕੁ ਯਾਦਿ ਦਿਲੈ ਮਹਿ ਮਉਲਾ
    खालकु यादि दिलै महि मउला ॥
    Kẖālak yāḏ ḏilai meh ma­ulā.
    remember God, the Creator within your heart.

    ਤਸਬੀ ਯਾਦਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਸ ਮਰਦਨੁ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਬੰਧਾਨਿ ਬਰਾ ॥੭॥
    तसबी यादि करहु दस मरदनु सुंनति सीलु बंधानि बरा ॥७॥
    Ŧasbī yāḏ karahu ḏas marḏan sunaṯ sīl banḏẖān barā. ||7||
    Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||

    ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨਹੁ ਸਭ ਫਿਲਹਾਲਾ
    दिल महि जानहु सभ फिलहाला ॥
    Ḏil meh jānhu sabẖ filhālā.
    You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.

    ਖਿਲਖਾਨਾ ਬਿਰਾਦਰ ਹਮੂ ਜੰਜਾਲਾ
    खिलखाना बिरादर हमू जंजाला ॥
    Kẖilkẖānā birāḏar hamū janjālā.
    Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.

    ਮੀਰ ਮਲਕ ਉਮਰੇ ਫਾਨਾਇਆ ਏਕ ਮੁਕਾਮ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਦਰਾ ॥੮॥
    मीर मलक उमरे फानाइआ एक मुकाम खुदाइ दरा ॥८॥
    Mīr malak umrė fānā­i­ā ėk mukām kẖuḏā­ė ḏarā. ||8||
    Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||

    ਅਵਲਿ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਦੂਜੀ ਸਾਬੂਰੀ
    अवलि सिफति दूजी साबूरी ॥
    Aval sifaṯ ḏūjī sābūrī.
    First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;

    ਤੀਜੈ ਹਲੇਮੀ ਚਉਥੈ ਖੈਰੀ
    तीजै हलेमी चउथै खैरी ॥
    Ŧījai halėmī cẖa­uthai kẖairī.
    third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.

    ਪੰਜਵੈ ਪੰਜੇ ਇਕਤੁ ਮੁਕਾਮੈ ਏਹਿ ਪੰਜਿ ਵਖਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਪਰਪਰਾ ॥੯॥
    पंजवै पंजे इकतु मुकामै एहि पंजि वखत तेरे अपरपरा ॥९॥
    Punjvai panjė ikaṯ mukāmai ėhi panj vakẖaṯ ṯėrė aparparā. ||9||
    Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||

    ਸਗਲੀ ਜਾਨਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਮਉਦੀਫਾ
    सगली जानि करहु मउदीफा ॥
    Saglī jān karahu ma­uḏīfā.
    Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.

    ਬਦ ਅਮਲ ਛੋਡਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਥਿ ਕੂਜਾ
    बद अमल छोडि करहु हथि कूजा ॥
    Baḏ amal cẖẖod karahu hath kūjā.
    Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.

    ਖੁਦਾਇ ਏਕੁ ਬੁਝਿ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਬਾਂਗਾਂ ਬੁਰਗੂ ਬਰਖੁਰਦਾਰ ਖਰਾ ॥੧੦॥
    खुदाइ एकु बुझि देवहु बांगां बुरगू बरखुरदार खरा ॥१०॥
    Kẖuḏā­ė ėk bujẖ ḏėvhu bāʼngāʼn burgū barkẖurḏār kẖarā. ||10||
    Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||

    ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ
    हकु हलालु बखोरहु खाणा ॥
    Hak halāl bakẖorahu kẖāṇā.
    Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.

    ਦਿਲ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਮੈਲਾਣਾ
    दिल दरीआउ धोवहु मैलाणा ॥
    Ḏil ḏarī­ā­o ḏẖovahu mailāṇā.
    Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.

    ਪੀਰੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਭਿਸਤੀ ਸੋਈ ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਦੋਜ ਠਰਾ ॥੧੧॥
    पीरु पछाणै भिसती सोई अजराईलु न दोज ठरा ॥११॥
    Pīr pacẖẖāṇai bẖisṯī so­ī ajrā­īl na ḏoj ṯẖarā. ||11||
    One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||

    ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ
    काइआ किरदार अउरत यकीना ॥
    Kā­i­ā kirḏār a­uraṯ yakīnā.
    Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.

    ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ
    रंग तमासे माणि हकीना ॥
    Rang ṯamāsė māṇ hakīnā.
    Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.

    ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥
    नापाक पाकु करि हदूरि हदीसा साबत सूरति दसतार सिरा ॥१२॥
    Nāpāk pāk kar haḏūr haḏīsā sābaṯ sūraṯ ḏasṯār sirā. ||12||
    Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||

    ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮੋਮ ਦਿਲਿ ਹੋਵੈ
    मुसलमाणु मोम दिलि होवै ॥
    Musalmāṇ mom ḏil hovai.
    To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,

    ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਮਲੁ ਦਿਲ ਤੇ ਧੋਵੈ
    अंतर की मलु दिल ते धोवै ॥
    Anṯar kī mal ḏil ṯė ḏẖovai.
    and wash away pollution from within the heart.

    ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰੰਗ ਆਵੈ ਨੇੜੈ ਜਿਉ ਕੁਸਮ ਪਾਟੁ ਘਿਉ ਪਾਕੁ ਹਰਾ ॥੧੩॥
    दुनीआ रंग न आवै नेड़ै जिउ कुसम पाटु घिउ पाकु हरा ॥१३॥
    Ḏunī­ā rang na āvai nėṛai ji­o kusam pāt gẖi­o pāk harā. ||13||
    He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||

    ਜਾ ਕਉ ਮਿਹਰ ਮਿਹਰ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨਾ
    जा कउ मिहर मिहर मिहरवाना ॥
    Jā ka­o mihar mihar miharvānā.
    One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,

    ਸੋਈ ਮਰਦੁ ਮਰਦੁ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ
    सोई मरदु मरदु मरदाना ॥
    So­ī maraḏ maraḏ marḏānā.
    is the manliest man among men.

    ਸੋਈ ਸੇਖੁ ਮਸਾਇਕੁ ਹਾਜੀ ਸੋ ਬੰਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਨਜਰਿ ਨਰਾ ॥੧੪॥
    सोई सेखु मसाइकु हाजी सो बंदा जिसु नजरि नरा ॥१४॥
    So­ī sėkẖ masā­ik hājī so banḏā jis najar narā. ||14||
    He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||

    ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਾਦਰ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮਾ
    कुदरति कादर करण करीमा ॥
    Kuḏraṯ kāḏar karaṇ karīmā.
    The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.

    ਸਿਫਤਿ ਮੁਹਬਤਿ ਅਥਾਹ ਰਹੀਮਾ
    सिफति मुहबति अथाह रहीमा ॥
    Sifaṯ muhabaṯ athāh rahīmā.
    The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.

    ਹਕੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਸਚੁ ਖੁਦਾਇਆ ਬੁਝਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਬੰਦਿ ਖਲਾਸ ਤਰਾ ॥੧੫॥੩॥੧੨॥
    हकु हुकमु सचु खुदाइआ बुझि नानक बंदि खलास तरा ॥१५॥३॥१२॥
    Hak hukam sacẖ kẖuḏā­i­ā bujẖ Nānak banḏ kẖalās ṯarā. ||15||3||12||
    Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12||
     
    #16 Shaheediyan, Jul 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2016
  18. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Fateh!

    First you should know how much I enjoy this kind of dialog. It keeps my mind flexible and reminds my heart of its most cherished treasures. But even from these pleasures I must pray to be cleansed.

    This shabd is one of the most poetic. But you are wrong when you say

    This message is universal and relevant to all faiths, and practiced by the blessed of all faiths, in particular, note Satguru's references to Allah, Rasool and the Koran, to show the universality of Satguru's truth and all encompassing and diverse nature of God:.

    If I give you an example of at least one major religion that disputes the shabd and your interpretation of it, will you consider my argument is at least tenable? I am not asking you to admit defeat; only consideration.

    God is always cheerful.
     
  19. Shaheediyan

    Shaheediyan
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa
    Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh||

    Dear brother,

    “God is always cheerful” – Doesn’t Gur-bani say God is sad when his Sants are in pain…. Furthermore, isn’t Vaheguru nirgun as well as sargun…

    I am happy that you are able to discuss this subject positively.

    You say I am wrong when I say Satguru’s message is universal. And also that “the blessed” practice Guru’s truth in all faiths. By disagreeing you are saying Satguru’s message is not universal and only Sikhs are blessed.

    As a separate point, kindly provide an explanation pertaining to your above statement.

    With regards to your last sentence, I am not discussing this subject for any self recognition, I am only interested in breaking fundamentalist and monopoly on salvation attitudes (I am not referring to you here) this is what Gurbani exposes through and through. Gurbani and Guru are above religion and exoteric focus, as are the blessed and true elements of other faiths.

    You mention refute from one major religion, if you read my posts, you will see that I am not talking about “major” elements of any religion, but the true elements I have provided references to.

    Again before we continue, I humbly request you become acquainted with the thoughts of the “blessed” like Rumi Sahib.

    To look a little closer to home, may be study the Islamic Qalandar movement which Baba Farid Ganj-e Shakar belonged to, and whom Satguru recognised as a blessed soul, adding their divine works to Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
     
  20. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    dear shaheediyan ji

    we are not saying that the message of gurbani is not universal.but the fact is majority of muslims don't beleive in gurbani.There is no muslim country in world which is ruled by sufi islam.majority of islamic countries are ruled by orthodox muslims who beleive that only muslims have right over salvation and all others are kaffirs including sikh guru's.in sikhism there is concept of miri and piri and miri means poltics so we can,t turn blind eye what is really happening in the world

    veer ji i have a question to you how many tolerant muslims are trying to change the the attituide of orthodox muslims?

    and btw
    aad002 ji is 61 year american lady who embraced sikhism
     
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: Sikh...Islam...

    Shaheediyan ji

    It may take a while to address each of your arguments. Right now just a brief rejoinder to your question:

    “God is always cheerful” – Doesn’t Gur-bani say God is sad when his Sants are in pain…. Furthermore, isn’t Vaheguru nirgun as well as sargun…

    This is a fair question. Waheguru who is Bliss itself, who is without hate and without enmity, is a God who is in Chardi Kala. Now usually we tell one another, Be in Chardi Kala- meaning find within yourself the cheerful and positive force of Satgur himself. Even when "sad" God is cheerful. When his Saints are in pain, God's energy carries them into a state of bliss. Remember that both a Jesuit priest, who was a witness to the martyrdom of Arjan Dev Sahib ji, and Bhai Gurdas, reported at the time of Guru dev's torture that he "cheerfully" chanted and sang the praises of Waheguru. Arjan Dev remained in Chardi Kala in spite of everything. Gurmukhs can be in Chardi Kala because their God is already there. “Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, tere bhane’ Sarbat dah Phala”


    Here is a little bit more on the subject from SikhiWiki
    Chardi kala - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

    Chardi Kala indicates the elation or high spirits of Sikhism. Chardi Kala, meaning “the positive attitude” is an equivalence of a mind that never despairs, never admits defeat and refuses to be crushed by adversities. It is the cherished ideal mood which the Gurus have preached and for which a Sikh daily prays in his Ardas (Prayer). “Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, tere bhane’ Sarbat dah Phala”

    God is always cheerful!!!!!
     

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