Sikh Youth Who ?

[Archived_Member_19]

<<You want proof which says Sikhism is the best religion, read Guru Granth Sahib>>

wouldn't it be circuitous logic?

source claiming to be the best source and referenced as best source.

please provide me specifics from SGGS which say so.

 

[kds1980]

ok therez nothinn wrong if one thinks his religion is the best thatss human nature buhh all the religions shud be respected thats wah guru sahib sed.. i think anyone can do seva in the gurd...
wah do u call a person wid uncut hair... juss a punjabi not a sikhh thats wah i say
well i kinda go further anyone hus not amritdhari shud not be considered a sikh (accordinn to me) cz guru gobind singh ji himself took amrit ann became guru gobind SINGH from gobind RAI soo arent the sikhs not INCOMPLETE widout amrit???

No a person with cut hair cannot be simply called punjabi.punjabi is an ethnicity not a religion.you have to describe what is your religion

 

[Archived_Member1]

No a person with cut hair cannot be simply called punjabi.punjabi is an ethnicity not a religion.you have to describe what is your religion

how about "cultural" sikh. or "sikh by birth". or "fallen sikh" (love that last one. )

or how about we just let them call themselves what they like and not worry so much about them.

 

[kds1980]

how about "cultural" sikh. or "sikh by birth". or "fallen sikh" (love that last one. )

or how about we just let them call themselves what they like and not worry so much about them.

I beleive that they should be accepted as sikhs.we should not kill sikh pride in them.we all should accept that our circumstances and spiritual level are different.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

kelly ji

your last line was perfect

how peaceful the world would be if all understood it.

sikhism doesnot have concept of "fallen", unlike abrahamic religions

KDS ji

what is sikh pride?

is it diffrent from haumai?

 

[kds1980]

kelly ji

your last line was perfect

how peaceful the world would be if all understood it.

sikhism doesnot have concept of "fallen", unlike abrahamic religions

KDS ji

what is sikh pride?

is it diffrent from haumai?

May be it is haumai .but is good for beginers and middle level persons.the people who are spiritualy advanced does not need it.

 

[TGill]

How can you say it is good for beginers and middle level persons - Please clarify KDS ji. How do you define beginners and middle level ?

 

[kds1980]

How can you say it is good for beginers and middle level persons - Please clarify KDS ji. How do you define beginners and middle level ?

Do you want to say that pride is not good for humans.then what about country pride,ethnicity pride etc

as far level of spirituality is concerned it is the person himself who could define how much spritual he is.how much teachings of guru he is following how strictly he is following.

 

[TGill]

One Pride originates from knowing truth and other from total ignorance of truth.

- The pride from ignorance is alwasy fanatic. False pride of religion is worst of all, why do you think people kill each other in the name of religion.

A real pride of being comes when person knows the reality but that pride is totally different in nature.

 

[kds1980]

One Pride originates from knowing truth and other from total ignorance of truth.

- The pride from ignorance is alwasy fanatic. False pride of religion is worst of all, why do you think people kill each other in the name of religion.

A real pride of being comes when person knows the reality but that pride is totally different in nature.

So what's your point sikh pride is not good

 

[TGill]

No, it is not good. A person should become a sikh first according to all the definitions given in Guru Granth Sahib, if then he feels pride of his religion then it is fine

- If a person is not a sikh according to the essence and definition provided by Guru itself what is he proud of. A person can't be proud of what he is not. It is totally false in nature.

 

[kds1980]

No, it is not good. A person should become a sikh first according to all the definitions given in Guru Granth Sahib, if then he feels pride of his religion then it is fine

- If a person is not a sikh according to the essence and definition provided by Guru itself what is he proud of. A person can't be proud of what he is not. It is totally false in nature.

It is very difficuilt to be a sikh by all defination of guru granth sahib.also a sikh means a student if a person is trying to follow teachings of guru then its o.k. for to be proud.
Without pride a community will fall in no time.

Also by your logic majority of people should not be proud of their countries because as they are not ideal citizens of their countries.

 

[TGill]

A false pride starts from the individual and the collection of such indiviuals make the community full of such false pride.

Communities can't be free of pride cos without pride communities are not formed, the common factor of pride brings them together. You are right sikh community will fall in no time without pride.

Well my feeling is it should better fall, cos I'm sure the individuals who will arise from such fallen community will be real gurus sikhs and will join that one percent of group who are real and have real pride, No one can fall them then.

 

[Parma]

Put Simply who is a sikh? Then you can answer the rest of this. SIKH LEARNING. So have the men who wear turbans all learned. Then they can not call themselves sikhs and they should change their name to khalsa pure. Sikh means learning. If you have learnt then you cannot discriminate someone for learning. They may not wear the turban yet, but hopefully they will.

 

[kds1980]

A false pride starts from the individual and the collection of such indiviuals make the community full of such false pride.

Communities can't be free of pride cos without pride communities are not formed, the common factor of pride brings them together. You are right sikh community will fall in no time without pride.

Well my feeling is it should better fall, cos I'm sure the individuals who will arise from such fallen community will be real gurus sikhs and will join that one percent of group who are real and have real pride, No one can fall them then.

Once a community will fall then no one is going to arise.please stop living in your dream world.we already have a good debate about quantity vs. quality and i have shown examples of power of quantity.

 

[TGill]

Parma ji - I totally agree with you but we are talking about sikhs feeling that their path is better than others path (other religions).

And all I'm saying is do we even know what path we are on ? If not then what are we proud of.

 

[TGill]

KDS ji I don't think you have not shown that .... I don't think all will agree with you on quantity thing. If you want to assume it than it is fine

 

[kds1980]

KDS ji I don't think you have not shown that .... I don't think all will agree with you on quantity thing. If you want to assume it than it is fine

Dear tgill

I have already asked you simple question.which you have not answered.the quality muslim people whose ancestor forcibly converted islam, can they now willingly embrace sikhism in pakistan if they want to..The truth is that majority of people now cannot people embrace sikhism where guru nanak dev ji was born.

Is it not the power of quantity? Please answer this question first

 

[TGill]

KDS ji - As far as your question above is concerned, it is not related to quantity at all, it is related to fanaticism. Leave pakistan as nation, will a fanatic sikh family allow their children to embrace islam even if children want to ? The number of sikhs in india is lesser than the muslims in india but still sikhs won't allow their children to become muslim.

- The thing I last said was that we should invest in quality and the quantity will follow rather than investing in quantity and then looking for quality. Also I mentioned that a person need incentive to change, what will that incentive be if we need to increase quantity. However if quality is what we all individaully start to invest in, the quantity will increase experiencing the power of our individuality and true virtues of our community and that is what happened at Gurujis time and that is where wisdom lies.

In the end I would just like to say as humbly as possible, the true Guru did not want to increase a religion, he wanted to show true light to the people. In the games of increasing quantities many countries are full with voilence. In order to go in the direction of that light we need to work on ourselves rather than working on community. The work for community will start but only in true light of our individuality. Now you may call me dreamer or whatever but the reality is there within us not outside. Both Miri and Piri are required but without spirituality picking up sword is just tyranny cos until then we are not aware of the truth and by picking up sword I don't mean it literally, it is just a metaphor here.

 

[Archived_Member1]

beautifully stated, TGill... i couldn't agree more.

i want to focus on the idea that we all have to become better individuals, better sikhs, in order to be an example that others will want to follow... which goes back to the original topic. rather than criticizing the sevadar for allowing a cut-haired person to do langar seva... be the first to volunteer for the seva yourself. set that example for others instead of criticizing what you don't like.