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Sikh Women and Dastaars

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by truthseeker, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. truthseeker

    truthseeker
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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!

    For a while now i have been thinking of tieing a dastaar but certain people that i kno say that" Girls dont have to wear them" and soo on. I have told them that.. way is it only ok for a guy to wear one but not a girl? Guru ji has always told us that but men and women ware exqual soo then y is it that we(as women) can't/ shouldn't wear one? i dont see the reasoning in this.

    I feel that if guys have to wear on.. then girls should to. All my life i have been taught that Akal Purakh is all around us.. everywhere that we are. and i figure that if we have cover our head in the Gurdwara because He is there..then we should have to cover our heard everywhere since He is everywhere.

    soo my question to the sangat is "DO u think that girls should wear dastaars... since men have to wear them???"

    bhul chuk maaf
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!!
     
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  3. S|kH

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    Re: Sikh women and dastaars????

    The problem is...guys don't neccessarily have to wear them.

    Keski/Pugh/Turban has become like the hidden, invincible "6th K"...that is, if you believe the panj K's to include KESH.

    Men choose to wear the turbans because of tradition, and history, but no one is less of a Sikh/Khalsa if they walk with their hair down, as long as it remains uncut. Of course, over the last few centuries, this has been taken as degrading towards men, hence why the Turban has become so closely assosciated with Men Sikhs and not women.

    It's not really about equality, but certain historical situations which have led turban to be assosciated with only Sikh men, and not women. Although the choice is completely yours, and the turban has many positive effects when placed upon any human being.

    I would say women do not "HAVE" to wear the turban, it is completely optional. The historical meaning has led the turban to have more of an impact for men than women because it was MOSTLY men that were placed at the head of the family and had to defend in times of war, whereas all Sikh women have not historically worn turbans.

    I would say its your choice if you feel that you want to be a perfect counterpart to your male kin, and resemble the Guru as much as physically possible, than by all means...tie the dastaar with the pride of the Singh/ni !

    You will never be looked down upon for your decision on this topic...unless of course, your dealing with AKJ/Tapoban or some sort of "Jatha".

    We're meant to be equal, but I think there are some key differences and history has led us a certain way.
     
  4. Hukum Kaur

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    Re: Sikh women and dastaars????

    I am happy to have found this thread, I would like to share an interesting personal experience regarding Sikh women and turbans:
    Just last Sunday I went to Gurdwara in Oslo, for I am traveling now. I got there at 9:00 am and did my Seva and bowed to the Guru. When I got up, a woman with a head scarf came out to me and she said, "I have been praying every morning for 15 years to be strong enough to wear what you are wearing" And she looked up at my white cloth turban, tied the way the women do. This shocked me and I told her, 'you are strong enough!'
    Gurdwara started at 11:00 and the left side of the room filled with women and the right side filled with men. Almost every man, in his turban. I the only woman, out of one hundred people, who wore a turban. Their were many Karas (some women had them on the right wrist and this confused me) and many head scarfs. I did not attempt to inquire during Kirtan, and all of the people were Indian so I wasn't sure who spoke English.
    Now, I am back in the country side by the fjords of Norway visiting my mother who does not 'allow' ANY religious symbols, head dress included. We debate about this a lot and agree to disagree. She Says if you need to show it then you are causing conflict and don't really have it within you. I say, it is an expression of my spirit and it effects my consciousness and reminds me of who I really am.
    I believe in expressing God consciousness and not letting the ignorance of people effect my actions, for it is between God and me. Me and God are One. So God is indifferent to what I wear, but favors what draws me closer to Him.
    My head dress protects my consciousness, the way a shawl protects one's heart center.
    Not everyone can understand the level of sensitivity that comes with the awakening to the unseen, so they see a statement that they don't understand and defiance is put up. It is like a vegetarian who gets lectured by an omnivore for not eating meat as he/she peacefully and quietly chews.
    I hope to inspire others to be pure, and I pray that I cause as little conflict as possible. However, the conflict the turban has caused between my mother and I has 'forced' us to open up and talk about real issues.
    However I am not as strong as the woman at the temple thought. I do not wear a turban out here, and I don't know if I will when I go to London for 2 weeks. Any advise on what to do in London?
    Only good can come out actions that have God as their intent and I hold my head the highest when it is wrapped. However I am tempted to just blend in and be introvert except in action. Any words SPN Sangat?
    Thank you for listening, Sat Naam Wahe Guru
    ...once again, excuse spelling...
     
    #3 Hukum Kaur, Jul 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2005
  5. drkhalsa

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    Dear Liv Kaur

    I can understand that whemn you say that one need ato be strong enough to wear turban and the only source of strenght in know of is Akal Purakh himself and if he has given you strenght to wear dataar in your town then offcourse he will give you strenght to wear it in london as well jsut have faith in him and pray for the strenght

    while the same stand true for many sikh men too , when I came to UK from India many of friends has this question on the top of list thatwhether I will be wearing the turban in UK as many dont do the same I dont no what exactly is the pressure they feel but they feel it quite strongly . Dso it becomes a kind of test for people coming to foreing land fron india because in punjab ( india) it is has become more of cultural thing to wear turban but when it comes to an allien place where wearing turban really means something then it act as a test fir him and at this point it becomes clear how much strenght Akal Purakh is giving him or how much is connected to him
    Any way i have aid too much and too vague
    but atlas i would advise you take it as a test for your self by wearing turban and let see how much strenght Akal Purakh gives you


    Jatinder Singh
     
  6. dreamer

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    dear truthseeker

    i am a learner sikh and at the present i dont wear a dastar, even though i have been considering it for the past year...., i have been brought up in a gurmukh family where my parents have taken amrit from the AKJ.

    I believe really strongly that any sikh who is willing to take amrit, or learn to live a sikh way of life, should wear a dastar even if they are a man or woman.

    When Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave amrit to the Panj Pyare, he also gave them five symbols ( the 5 k's) these symbols are known as Kara, Keshara, Kirpan, Kanga, Keskhi. Alot of sikhs have to taken to believe that kesh is a 5 k, but Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave five symbols which were not part of the human body therefore the kesh would not be considered in that.

    The Dastar is a very important part of Sikhi, it is not just around because of tradition and history, it is around because of the khalsa... i would not consider it an option, sikhi is not followed to fit into your lifestyle, there is no point taking amrit and not following the sikh teachings properly if you are only taking the parts of sikhi that you enjoy or feel like and leaving the rest.

    Sikhi if followed properly and understood is such a beautiful religion, it doesnt differentiate between sex, race, or caste.... therefore if a man can wear a dastar then there is no difference if a woman wears one either...

    i hope i havent offended anyone with my views....

    if you would like any more information on the dastar for women then here is a link http://www.searchsikhism.com/dastaar.html

    waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.
     
  7. S|kH

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    AKJ...and there we go...I said if she did not belong to a Jatha such as that one, than its agreed by the majority of the Khalsay that the Panj K's includes KESH.

    References, please.

    Never did I say the turban is not an important part of history. History is a very important part of Sikhi also, same as some traditional aspects. It is not followed to fit your lifestyle, but it is not to be mended because of certain personal biases.

    Sikhi does not differentiate between sex, race or caste...thats why I said it is HER CHOICE if she wants to, but she is NO LESS OF A KHALSA if she does not. If she feels it necessary, all the power to her!
    But, it is not mandatory, the Panj K's include KESH...its just personal bias of people not being able to think of a Sikh with his open hair down, and not tied up in a turban. I know parents who get mad if their son wears a Pugh that has a different "style" than their own.
     
  8. truthseeker

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    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!

    Sikh ji, u said that one could wear there hai open... if they wanted, but we are suppose to keep our kesh clean and neat. How can one keep it neat if it is open? The wind can blow it around, and their is dust/dirt in the air.. which definalty does not help to keep it clean.

    Liv kaur Ji,

    Im soo glad to hear that u wear a Dastaar....But dont let location change ur love for Akal Purakh. If u can wear it in ur home town.. then u can wear one anywhere else. '
    My main problem was that right now i wear a ramal on my head just soo that i have it covered. But like just last night, i was going to the store with my mom and she was like "take it off" and i told her that i didnt want to. And she was like "ok then im not going with u". That really hurt me.. becuase she didnt give me a chance to explain.. and the worst part was that she said ilooked like i was mulsim. That part really hurt me. I just dont kno how to explain to her.. as to how i feel about it.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!
     
  9. S|kH

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    Truthseeker ji,

    You are supposed to take care of your hair, and thats why we're supposed to carry a Kanga around with us.

    As far as dirt being in the air and dust, I wouldnt worry about that much, it wont accumulate to make your hair dirty at all, as long as you wash your hair every few days you will be fine. Its not a big issue that *mandates* that Sikhs keep their hair covered at all times. If you are that worried about the dirt, than you can cover it with any sort of cloth if you wish.

    If your outside of long periods of time, just go to the bathroom and comb your hair a few times if you feel that your kesh is getting dirty.

    For me, I've went places with my hair open, and its never gotten dirty to the point where theres a noticeable difference.

    ----
    As for your mom telling you look like a muslim is completely ridiculous. Please, don't take it to heart.
    My dad trims his dhari, and since I keep mine flowing I always hear the same lip-service...that I look like a Muslim.
    I hear the same thing when I want to tie a white pugh or a round dastaar...it's "Bin-Laden's type".
    lol, imagine hearing your parents call you Bin Laden...how does that work out?
    As long as you know what your doing is correct, and along the Guru's wishes, than dont let them hold you down.
     
    #8 S|kH, Jul 29, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  10. truthseeker

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    SIkh ji,

    What do u say to your parents when they make comments like that to you??? Of course you kno that u arent doing anything wrong... and that u are following your Guru... but they are still your parents, and when it gets to the point where your parents wont go to the store with u becuase.. they dont wanna be seen with u wearing it, thats just really hard.
    I cant explain how it feels when she says things like that to me? i mean its not like im doin anything wrong? I could be like many of my other friends/cousins who drink and smoke and all that junk, but i dont. Im neve the one to get introuble or anything like that yet they dont see all that. All they see is that im not comforming to what they think i should or shouldnt look like/ dress etc. I just bothers me that she would even make a comment like that. Its one thing to say it... but like i dont even understand how me doing something effects her. THey arent the ones wearing it or anything right? THe only thing is that.. i wanna respect what she says.. cuz i mean she is my mom and i gotta respect her but then again HE is my Guru ji... the almighty, if i cant respect Him ( the one who put me here) then how can i respect anybody... including myself?

    bhull chuk maaf
    waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!!
     

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