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Sikhi Sikh Spirituality and its Manifestations

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Ishna, Dec 3, 2015.

  1. Ishna

    Ishna
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    I'm interested to learn more about how the sangat perceives the spiritual and the temporal in Sikhi. Sometimes it seems like people can be in only one camp or the other. As Sikhs, we strive to balance both of these qualities.

    So, what are they, exactly?

    Temporal (miri) is easy to understand from the Sikh point of view. It's our morals and how we interact with other people, the community and the world at large. It's sharing, caring, leading, defending, honesty, integrity, service.

    Spiritual (piri) is a little bit harder. I'd love the sangat to share with me how they define what is 'spiritual' and how that manifests in the temporal.
     
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  3. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Ishna ji,

    Guru Fateh.

    For me, our visionary Gurus made it so simple. Spirituality is not hanging upside down like a sloth- called Lazy Animal in Portuguese- on a tree in order to find god as many Sidhs still do. Living a Spiritual life is the benchmark of Sikhi how we live our temporal one. How we tackle the trials and tribulations with grace and determination. How we Sikhs help people of different religions when they are in need.

    These are all Spiritual ways of living via temporal.

    One thing not spiritual for me is parroting Lady Gaga or any other name for half an hour and feel proudly good about this transitory fix which is not Sikhi according to me. What good is repeating some good words, phrases, lessons for an hour or so and do nothing about what they urge us to put into practice?
     
    #2 Tejwant Singh, Dec 3, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  4. japjisahib04

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    Gurbani tells me, 'ਆਪੁ ਸਵਾਰਹਿ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਮੈ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ Wherever you go and sit, speak well, and write the Word of the Shabad in your consciousness, Oh my manh, 'ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜੇ ਤੂ ਮੇਰਾ ਹੋਇ ਰਹਹਿ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੯੫॥ [Panna 1382]To turn ordinary into extra ordinary is spirituality. To see God in all is spirituality. To take along, all with you is spiritulity. Who relish humility, decency is spirituality. As Guru sahib in japjisahib says [Panna 2],

    ਜੇ ਜੁਗ ਚਾਰੇ ਆਰਜਾ ਹੋਰ ਦਸੂਣੀ ਹੋਇ
    Je jug cẖāre ārjā hor ḏasūṇī ho▫e.
    Even if you could live throughout the four ages, or even ten times more,

    ਨਵਾ ਖੰਡਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਨਾਲਿ ਚਲੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ
    Navā kẖanda vicẖ jāṇī▫ai nāl cẖalai sabẖ ko▫e.
    and even if you were known throughout the nine continents and followed by all,

    ਚੰਗਾ ਨਾਉ ਰਖਾਇ ਕੈ ਜਸੁ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਜਗਿ ਲੇਇ
    Cẖanga nā▫o rakẖā▫e kai jas kīraṯ jag le▫e.
    with a good name and reputation, with praise and fame throughout the world-

    ਜੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਆਵਈ ਵਾਤ ਪੁਛੈ ਕੇ
    Je ṯis naḏar na āvī ṯa vāṯ na pucẖẖai ke.
    still, if the Lord does not bless you with His Glance of Grace, then who cares? What is the use?

    ਕੀਟਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੀਟੁ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਸੀ ਦੋਸੁ ਧਰੇ
    Kītā anḏar kīt kar ḏosī ḏos ḏẖare.
    Among worms, you would be considered a lowly worm, and even contemptible sinners would hold you in contempt.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿ ਗੁਣੁ ਕਰੇ ਗੁਣਵੰਤਿਆ ਗੁਣੁ ਦੇ
    Nānak nirguṇ guṇ kare guṇvanṯi▫ā guṇ ḏe.
    O Nanak, God blesses the unworthy with virtue, and bestows virtue on the virtuous.
    to uplift the deprived and make them worthy is spiritulity.

    ਤੇਹਾ ਕੋਇ ਸੁਝਈ ਜਿ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਣੁ ਕੋਇ ਕਰੇ ॥੭॥
    Ŧehā ko▫e na sujẖ▫ī jė ṯis guṇ ko▫e kare. ||7||
    No one can even imagine anyone who can bestow virtue upon Him. ||7||​

    It also reveals we got to learn through out our life godly virtues otherwise life becomes stagnant as the moment I believe I am intelligent enough I lose chance to learn more.

    Ji, please post full paurhis with panna number. Thank you. -Ishna
     
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  5. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    live well, live smart, live truthfully, in service, to share....to know God is within you..and therefore withing everyone and everything else also..

    spiritually - well, things can get rather mind-blowing here :) your body is so small in dimensions, yet 'everything' is accessible through it.... how can that be...the marvel of waheguru....

    go within.....and it doesnt involve parroting, singing lady gaga, hanging off anything, sitting on a tree...
    where does one get such thoughts... :)

    God bless
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    From Hinduism?
     
  7. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    For me temporal = that which exists in this physical reality and how we interact with it on purely physical level - our existence as a separate being. And Spiritual = that which exists beyond the physical, that which deals with our true ultimate identity as nonphysical and part of the One and not something separate. The temporal is required in order to realize the spiritual. It is through these phsyical (sargun) forms which we can realize the nonphysical (nirgun). It's only from an aspect separate from the One (duality) which we can understand Oneness. In reality, both exist simultaneously... rather it's the spiritual unchanging which is the ultimate truth and temporal is transient and changing. They are two sides of the same coin. And agreed no need to swing from trees etc. Just go within...
     
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  8. chazSingh

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    ahh ok...from Hinduism...

    but the question was about sikhi? :)
     
  9. japjisahib04

    japjisahib04 Kuwait
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    It is pity when guru sahib clearly says, 'suniyee laagai sehj dhian' then why we make things complicated.
     
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  10. Tejwant Singh

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    Yes, the question is about Sikhi in which many Hindutva rituals are practiced like parroting and many more. Guru Nanak refused to wear the Janieu for some reason. A Sikh would know that.
     
  11. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Harkiran Kaur ji,

    Guru Fateh

    How does one live the life of Miri -Piri if one of the two is not within our reach as per your claim?
    What is beyond physical?

    Please specify with concrete examples.

    Thanks
     
  12. Ishna

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    Wikipedia shows us that the term spirituality has no clear definition. And it's article on Sikh spirituality is not much help:

    Sikhism considers spiritual life and secular life to be intertwined:[76] "In the Sikh Weltanschauung...the temporal world is part of the Infinite Reality and partakes of its characteristics."[77] Guru Nanak described living an "active, creative, and practical life" of "truthfulness, fidelity, self-control and purity" as being higher than a purely contemplative life.[78]

    The 6th Sikh Guru Guru Hargobind re-affirmed that the political/temporal (Miri) and spiritual (Piri) realms are mutually coexistent.[79]According to the 9th Sikh Guru, Tegh Bahadhur, the ideal Sikh should have both Shakti (power that resides in the temporal), and Bhakti (spiritual meditative qualities). This was developed into the concept of the Saint Soldier by the 10th Sikh Guru, Gobind Singh.[80]

    According to Guru Nanak, the goal is to attain the "attendant balance of separation-fusion, self-other, action-inaction, attachment-detachment, in the course of daily life",[81] the polar opposite to a self-centered existence.[81] Nanak talks further about the one God orAkal (timelessness) that permeates all life[82]).[83][84][85] and which must be seen with 'the inward eye', or the 'heart', of a human being.[86]

    In Sikhism there is no dogma,[87] priests, monastics or yogis.
     
  13. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
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    Can you please show me where I said that one was not within reach???

    I actually said that it is through the physical that we realize the nonphysical... through this physical body (separateness) we can realize Oneness.

    And the spiritual is very much within our reach!!! I'm sorry if I gave the impression somewhere that it was not in our reach, though I don't see it in my post...

    Here are a few good articles which explains the spiritual side of Sikhi:
    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart46.htm
    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart153.htm
    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart303.htm
    http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart131.htm
     
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  14. chazSingh

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    those are great links and examples....thank you for sharing :)
     
  15. chazSingh

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    complicated in what way ji?
     
  16. Harkiran Kaur

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    This is also why I like using the dream analogy so much Tejwant Ji (and why I believe Gurbani does also):

    One must awaken from (or within) the dream to realize he/she was dreaming.

    Physical temporal world (miri) is 'as a' dream while nonphysical reality primacy, or our source is the awakened state or spiritual (piri). While in the dream we think we are awake, but we will only recognize this was the dream once we awaken from it. This awakening can happen while still within the dream... that is to say, while still alive we can conquer death... by the realization that this is not our true identity.

    As for what lies beyond phsyical, I believe I have more than adequately shown how the physical is an illusion of perception, agreed upon by the world's genius physicists, who saw beyond matter and understood the base reality is pure energy, vibration, frequency. Everything which we perceive as solid, is really not. Everything is made up of energy in varying states of vibration. 'Solid' is an illusion.

    So in reality, EVERYTHING is beyond the physical. And we CAN experience it, through our thirst for scientific knowlege AND by going within... (science and spirituality MUST have synthesis since they are of the same source) Our source or 'Mool' is nonphysical... it's beyond phsyical. That part of us through which we can dissolve the illusion is within us... that part which we already identify as being nonphysical...our consciousness - the awareness - behind us all.

    **Note on consciousness - I know you equate it with simply being physically awake as in the physical body. I am using it to refer to the 'doer' the experiencer behind the body. The eyes which exist behind the eyes, the mind which exists behind the mind, the 'I AM' inherent within us. The 'I AM' is that part of us which exists not as part of the illusion, but instead is the ONE who is experiencing the illusion. So I am not speaking of merely physical wakefulness in a physical body sense. I am using 'consciousness' for lack of a better word... and I am not interested in a debate on the meaning of 'consciousness' in an English literal sense. I think you know what I am trying to say without debating about which descriptor words we use. (Only mentioning this because before it erupted into a debate on the meaning of the word consciousness in physical terms... which is inconsequential. It is understood that spiritual ideas must be conveyed in physical language hence metaphors and allegory to get the point across).
     
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  17. chazSingh

    chazSingh Ireland
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    there are inner worlds and outer worlds...consciousness doesnt appear to have any limits...its not bount by space or time...when we go within, it appears that we come to know of this...and become aware of everything..everywhere....through this body house of ours..

    its mindblowing..i'm not surprised that no one can give a clear definition of it...you just go with the flow...and take it as it comes...
     
  18. Ambarsaria

    Ambarsaria Canada
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    Harkiran Kaur ji thanks for your well written posts and posting of thought provoking articles.

    I don't see any issues with us trying to learn more about creator, creation and our place in it. However our great teachers in SGGS warned us that it is futile if we set the objective in this pursuit to know all.To know all is beyond all, is one key message in SGGS.

    Sikh spirituality is as much trying to understand oneness of all as much to know that this oneness is un-defineable in terms of its complete dissection in parts. Your posted article about virtual versus reality due to quantum physics understanding is wonderful. So knowing all this as human beings, we need to come out of micro (say Quantum) to macro (say Newtonian) and beyond. How we do that with consonance, grace and recognition of all that is around us defines us as one who understands what guru ji taught us or a Sikh who is still learning. So this continuum is what combined miri and piri entails rather than hard borders that separates these.

    Overall in journey of life one who has realized is neither superior nor inferior in this respect from one who has not realized yet or has a different realization. They simply are at a different juncture. All these superfluous arguments about parroting brought into a thread like this are simply that, superfluous and if I was an admin I would discourage such hijacking. If you parrot and it helps you along in your understanding, great; if you don't parrot it helps you along with your understanding, great. Not every student has a same way of learning from the teacher.

    Sat Sri Akal.
     
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  19. Ishna

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    For me, spirituality is about one's own inner world and finding the state of sehaj (equipoise, mental and emotional stability laced with the bliss that comes from Naam). When one conquors one's own mind, then they conquor the world.

    Spirituality is a core part of who I am, but it is subtle. I contrast dramatically when compared to my mother, who labels herself as 'spiritual' and for her this means having a life full of angel and spirit guides, tarot cards, numerology, astrology, dream interpretation, omens and, of course, her own sense of spirit.

    Perhaps this is why I've become quite skeptical about these things as I've grown up. Those who know me well know that my disbelief in the above is as much for my mental protection as it is adherence to the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

    My spirituality, as I said, is more subtle than my mother's. It is a sense of intuition and faith informed by Guru Sahib exclusively as far as I can go. I debate regularly with my atheist partner about religion and faith, and always become unstuck when trying to explain why I choose panentheism over atheism. It's because I feel it. I can't explain it. The Guru's bani resonates within my core and I sense it on an intuitive level that simply can't be described.

    When this feeling dominates, my mind is clear and my actions come from that deeper place. When I am disconnected from it I wander aimlessly, and anger, ego, lust etc. start to come out loudly.

    So this is how I describe my Sikh sense of spirituality and how it manifests.
     
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  20. Harkiran Kaur

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    Sikhism as far as I have seen described in every book etc I have read, is panentheistic - because the Creation originates from God, and God pervades all of the Creation, God or Creator also exists independent of it. The Creation however does not exists independent of God. This is how pantheism differs in thought as it equates Universe / God on equal level. Sikhi however keep describing creation as a 'reflection' or 'dream' or 'thought' of the Creator meaning ultimate reality must exist beyond the Creation or that Creation is transient / reflection of the Creator and not equal to. So Sikhism IS Panentheist. And you and I are in consonance with this Bhenji. Sikhism is not Atheistic in belief.

    ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ
    गउड़ी कबीर जी ॥
    Ga▫oṛī Kabīr jī.
    Gauree, Kabeer Jee:
    ਜੋਤਿ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਕੀ ਜੋਤੀ
    जोति की जाति जाति की जोती ॥
    Joṯ kī jāṯ jāṯ kī joṯī.
    The creation is born of the Light, and the Light is in the creation.

    (The Light is not born of the Creation.. meaning the Light exists beyond it - However the Creation IS born of the Light - within it - and the Light is permeating the creation. Meaning the Creation is a relfection of the Light... like a dream is a reflection of the dreamer, Creation is inward reflection of Creator. So the ultimate truth is Creator alone and Creation MUST be Creator as nothing else truly exists. The ultimate level of reality is that of the Creator alone.)
    ਤਿਤੁ ਲਾਗੇ ਕੰਚੂਆ ਫਲ ਮੋਤੀ ॥੧॥
    तितु लागे कंचूआ फल मोती ॥१॥
    Ŧiṯ lāge kancẖū▫ā fal moṯī. ||1||
    It bears two fruits: the false glass and the true pearl. ||1||

    (Creation bears two fruits... The false glass is the illusion (like a fake pearl), the true pearl is finding the light itself, and not it's reflections... in a room filled with mirrors reflecting a candle, you have many apparent flames, but ONE of them must be real for without it, there would be no reflections at all. So if reality is reflection or many images of the Creator, then somewhere in all these forms must exist the true image. The search for it, is spirutality.)
    ਕਵਨੁ ਸੁ ਘਰੁ ਜੋ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਕਹੀਐ
    कवनु सु घरु जो निरभउ कहीऐ ॥
    Kavan so gẖar jo nirbẖa▫o kahī▫ai.
    Where is that home, which is said to be free of fear?
    ਭਉ ਭਜਿ ਜਾਇ ਅਭੈ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
    भउ भजि जाइ अभै होइ रहीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Bẖa▫o bẖaj jā▫e abẖai ho▫e rahī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    There, fear is dispelled and one lives without fear. ||1||Pause||
    ਤਟਿ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਹੀ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ
    तटि तीरथि नही मनु पतीआइ ॥
    Ŧat ṯirath nahī man paṯī▫ā▫e.
    On the banks of sacred rivers, the mind is not appeased.

    (Sacred rivers, being physical are still only reflections...)
    ਚਾਰ ਅਚਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਉਰਝਾਇ ॥੨॥
    चार अचार रहे उरझाइ ॥२॥
    Cẖār acẖār rahe urjẖā▫e. ||2||
    People remain entangled in good and bad deeds. ||2||

    (Remember who the 'doer' is)
    ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਦੁਇ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨ
    पाप पुंन दुइ एक समान ॥
    Pāp punn ḏu▫e ek samān.
    Sin and virtue are both the same.
    ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਤਜਹੁ ਗੁਨ ਆਨ ॥੩॥
    निज घरि पारसु तजहु गुन आन ॥३॥
    Nij gẖar pāras ṯajahu gun ān. ||3||
    In the home of your own being, is the Philosopher's Stone; renounce your search for any other virtue. ||3||
    ਕਬੀਰ ਨਿਰਗੁਣ ਨਾਮ ਰੋਸੁ
    कबीर निरगुण नाम न रोसु ॥
    Kabīr nirguṇ nām na ros.
    Kabeer: O worthless mortal, do not lose the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
    ਇਸੁ ਪਰਚਾਇ ਪਰਚਿ ਰਹੁ ਏਸੁ ॥੪॥੯॥
    इसु परचाइ परचि रहु एसु ॥४॥९॥
    Is parcẖā▫e paracẖ rahu es. ||4||9||
    Keep this mind of yours involved in this involvement. ||4||9||
     
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  21. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Harkiran ji,

    Guru Fateh,

    Sirgun and Nirgun are both adjectives.But I have seen you using them as nouns. Would you be kind enough to share the meaning of the nouns?

    Thanks
     

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