Quote
You don't have to buy anything. But you're confusing a Living transmission as if it were meaningless ritual. Let's look at some things.
Guruji is understandable to the simple, but He isn't simple-minded,
Never ever I even dared to think contrary to that, who am I ? a simple minded trying to understand Revealed Gurbani !!
He is a Living Master. And Guru's teachings have a depth which is greater than even astro-physics. No human being can understand the depths of Guru. Do you accept Gurbani is deeper and more meaningful than the Vedas?
Well said, Bhain ji , why have you made this an issue? Truly I don’t need any thing to know about Vedas because Gurbani itself is my refuge.
I have given you Gurbani citations. All you give is "you don't buy it." Would you also claim no proof exists for Khande Ki Pahul as being Gur Deekhya? You imply this when you claim Khande Ki Pahul and the Rehit Maryada were created just to keep a disciplined Army for the political purpose of defending against the Mughals.
With due respect, lets look at your latest Gurbani quotes about charan pahul. Hope no one will be offended. All these Guru Vaak do not support Charan Pahul, translator has problem to understand the meaning of a Punjabi idiom” pair/ charan dho ke peene”, its meaning is to regard extremely high, to get idea of charan pahul out of it, it is like a joke played on words. In the last of, Bhai Gurdas deean Varan, it is written if these were read many times some thing good will be rewarded by the Devine. Not a one reference is found in any of the Gurbani where materialistic gains were traded with Gurbani reciting or falling in love for GOD. Should we listen to Gurbani in this context or others to open up a shop that will guarantee financial gains for doing path of such and such Bani. It is called spiritual suicide. So that quote, if implied properly, leads us to unconditional love and respect for the Guru and his spiritual powers. Still I refuse to buy it because distortion becomes grenade to make us limbless in prospect of progressing.
. Now you are complaining vaars and references used to support Guru-chela relationship and Guruji being a Master Yogi didn't support Charan Pahul. The reference to Sidh Gost, for example proves Guru Nanak Dev Ji was accepted as a Master Yogi by the Yogis and Siddhas of the time. Or do you dispute this? And that was the only point.
What are you trying to prove here? Let’s quote Guru Nanak ji in this context because now Yoga theory you are referring from no where. Here is a complete rejection of this practice, only Naam Simran, good deeds are given importance. Such Shabad are for those who have very high state of mind, Guru ji talks here directly about Yoga, in the following Shabad, no ambiguity at all.
jogI kY Gir jugiq dsweI ] iqqu kwrix kin muMdRw pweI ] muMdRw pwie iPrY sMswir ] ijQY ikQY isrjxhwru ] jyqy jIA qyqy vwtwaU ] cIrI AweI iFl n kwaU ] eyQY jwxY su jwie is\wxY ] horu PkVu ihMdU muslmwxY ] sBnw kw dir lyKw hoie ] krxI bwJhu qrY n koie ] sco scu vKwxY koie ] nwnk AgY puC n hoie ]2] {pMnw 951-952}
“ Meanin in essence”The Way of Yoga is demonstrated in the Yogi’s monastery. They wear ear-rings to show the way. Wearing ear-rings, they wander around the world. The Creator Lord is everywhere. All human beings are like travelers. When one’s call for going from here is issued, there is no delay. Only those who realize HIM here are recognized here after Others, whether Hindu or Muslim, are just talk in vain. Everyone is accounted for the actions; without the good deeds, no one gets liberation. One who is lost into memory of True Lord , O Nanak, is not called to account hereafter.
So based on this Guru Vaak, Bhain Ji respectfully I have to strongly disagree with your Yoga thing, Guru ji reduces it to of no use, it is the deeds not the ceremonies, its is Naam Simran being in love with Him, not all other show off that are not recognizable in HIS court.
Ceremonies and rituals are easy to do, hard is to battle with the mind which is deeply corrupted by MAYA SHOW of the world.
you can't change the original meanings or deny the obvious either. Charnamrit = charan (feet) + amrit (nectar). It is holy water from the feet of a Guru. Nectar from the feet of God. This definition is found in Vedas, Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc.
Guru Ji made me done with Mahabharta and other mythical episodes.
"Kal taaran Guru Nanak aya,Sikhaan charanamrit pilaya" meaning: "Guru Nanak arrived to deliver Kalyug,
I don’t think you are aware of the fact that Guru ji is also critic of yugas as good or bad and made clear only that time is SATYUG when HE is remembered. He rejected all trash to bring seeker close to GOD. Dragging back was a good attempt of those people who took over Sikh Dharmsalas when Sikhs were fighting a gorilla War to survive. One person named Bhai Santokh Singh interprets Gurbani by completely making Vedas a base and gives different meaning of the same Guru Vaak( Taran Singh” Gurbani deean viakhya Parnalian page122) More confusion is forced on Sikhs.
Sikhs were given Charan-Amrit to drink. The fact that this is an ancient Indic trandition seems to escape you. You don't accept it. That doesn't mean there aren't historical source references or a thousands year old religious structure that supports it.
Why would Guru ji accept it in the first place? He has to systematically annul all those rituals and he did it. When he refers to Vedas he ask people to find out a fact in there is to worship/ simr HIM only.
It was changed by Dasam Pita Ji because He put an end to human Guru lineage and invested the Shabd-Jyot into Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Respected Bhain Ji wake up, Guru Gobind singh Didn’t change anything started by Guru Nanak Jot.. That is also contradiction. Why would he do it?. Even Khalsa concept is also put in practice as desired by Guru Nanak for self protection.
As part of Khande Ki Pahul in 1699, Guruji also invested His Shabd-Jyot and spiritual authority into Guru Panj Piare since it would not be possible for transmission to occur with Charan Pahul without a human Guru
You can say here spiritual power but not Shabad jot,, I resent that. And as per your own words in last post, it was only one to have honor of Guruship, that is Guru Granth sahibJi
Mann exemplifies this with the initiation rite (charan pahul) at Kartarpur. Using Bhai Gurdas's var (1: 23) Mann explains this as follows: 'the initiate's toe was washed and other Sikhs drank that water' (p. 28). These details are corroborated in the Persian work Dabistan-i-Mazahib (School of Religions), written in the 1640s.
The Sikh Times - Book Reviews - A New Definition of Sikhism"
We cannot just pick and use from Persian sources because a lot of in them are extremely disrespectful towards Guru Ji and Sikhs. It is like this; if suits take it, if not, discard it.
. I've cited a number of historical references and Gurbani. All you've cited is the statement, "Historical references prove..."
Gurbani quoted by you, simply expresses about Disciple and Guru, that is not the issue here.
They do? What references?
” Singh” name added to their names is found in none of the old books written about them, or references given about them.
You say Bhai Kannaya and Bhai Nand Lal Ji were not amritdhri due to the absence of Singh as a last name.
Yes, if amrit ceremony would have taken place, they would have definitely SINGH tagged with their name, no doubt about it.
HERE YOU HAVE ALSO ANSWERED ANTONIO JI”S QUESTION ABOUT NAME CHANGING. If we accept as you say they were amritdhari but didn’t tag name with Singh, then what is problem here? Either way one view has to go wrong.
While this is a curious matter, it's an inference, not proof. By the same token we can ask, did Dasam Pita Ji have 3 wives? Was Mata Jeeto ji, Mata Suridari ji and Mata Sahib Kaur ji three different persons or names of one?
You cannot use by the same token here, they do not exist in History as Singhs as Mata ji with three names, give me a break, reason has its own beauty, it refuses fake decorations.
To jump to the conclusion based on curiosity of the way history has recorded a name is not proof one way or the other. What you're doing is denying Guru deekhya completely on the basis that Bhai Kennaya and Bhai Nand Lal Ji aren't called Singh. To be honest, you don't present that persuasive evidence simply claiming, "historical sources prove." How do historical sources prove there was no Guru-chela discipleship, no Gur-deekhya, no Charan Pahul, and thus no need for Khande Ki Pahul? I'm still waiting for your evidence. By simply saying you don't accept, that's just opinion. By saying Sikh institutions are overrun with hypocrites also doesn't disprove anything.
Bhainj see the difference” If it is” and It is?” You keep distorting my statements for no reason. I tried to make it clear earlier that if Akaal Takhat is taken over by hypocrites, should we listen to them or Guru Granth Sahib?
Secondly I have given you the detail why Tenth Master started amrit ceremony, second, known Sikhs in his time were let out as a Sikhs without amrit. I just cannot see Guru ji having that kind of dogmatic approach towards Naam Seekers. Many people of other faiths met him and were extremely respected him, offered to die for him and they did but Guru ji never ever even asked them to have it. If it were highly necessary for Naam, why wouldn’t he do it? If amrit ceremony was not for self defense, why new kind of symbols was introduced? As per your views, Sikh Dharm was not complete till tenth Master who introduced amrit ceremony. I just cannot imagine Tenth Master be harboring your knd of views like Yoga thing,and that Khalsa has nothing to do with self defense and it was an initiation only for Naam.
By saying Punjab is full of people who are failing to live up to the standards of Sikhi is sad. But again, it doesn't prove anything about Gur-deeksha.
I wrote it just to make you realize outer appearance cannot alone enough for being Sikh. Let people come into fold, let them be ready, when time come, people go for that. This rigidness is totally futile in context of Guru Nanak’s teachings. You are missing a point here, as they do not exist as Ghaneea Singh and Nand Lal Singh in the history, how come chela and Guru and dikshya prevailed in their case without amrit ceremony, obviously it was not for every one. Fake letters are manufactured, fake Hukamnamas are made, none of them prove that Guru ji walked in to that narrow window ever. Now coming back to your trashing my examples I gave. Coloring the truth, doesn’t change the truth. You have no proof in writing by any Guru who supported charan pahul or amrit ceremony as mandatory or to be accepted it to be as real Sikh. Why I don’t accept? Reasoning given behind these is crippled with imaginations.
Let's analyze some of the sources of Charan Pahul closely:
ਚਰਨਧੋਇਰਹਰਾਸਿਕਰਿਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਸਿਖਾਂਪੀਲਾਇਆ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.
Var1, Pauri 3, Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸੁਖਫਲਪਿਰਮਰਸੁਚਰਣੋਦਕੁਗੁਰਚਰਣਪਖਾਲੇ।
guramukhi sukh dhal piram rasu charanodaku gur charan pakhaalay|
Gurmukhs having the desire of the fruits of delight with all love wash the feet of the guru.
It is all about high regard for Guru.
I wash the Guru's Feet, and drink in this water. ||1||
ਗੁਰਕੀਰੇਣੁਨਿਤਮਜਨੁਕਰਉ॥
gur kee raen nith majan karo ||
I take my daily bath in the dust of the Guru's Feet.
ਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੀਹਉਮੈਮਲੁਹਰਉ॥੨॥
janam janam kee houmai mal haro ||2||
The egotistical filth of countless incarnations is washed off. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 239
It is also same idea, now bear in mind, “charan dhoke peene” is a Punjabi idiom, it implies very high regard, so thinking it as an act will not match the meaning of the following Guru Vaak, quoted by you but look at it
“My consciousness is filled with yearning and hope to meet my Lord, and drink in the sublime essence of His Lotus Feet. ||1||Pause||
~SGGS Ji p. 1268
Now here how one can wash feet of GOD and drink it. People just take one vaak and then use it as it pleases to them.
As quoted by you,in SGGS 134, all about greatness of Guru,SGGS 128, Respect for Guru,SGGS 207 about blessings of Guru,SGGS 1325 it’s a hint towards those who remain in defiance to Guru,SGGS 1399, again power of Guru to change people as hard as wood, Milar Rag, again about surrender to Guru,SGGS 96, ambrosial is His Naam,, SGGS 1302, seeker thanks to Guru and talks about mercy of the Lord.
Nothing is stated it as a charan pahul as an initiation.
In the following, code of conduct is referred to what Guru ji says numerous time as good deeds.
Quote
kehath mukath sunath mukath rehath janam rehathae ||
Those who speak are liberated, and those who listen are liberated; those who keep the Rehit, the Code of Conduct, are not reincarnated again. 1230
Respectfully, Harjas Kaur Bhain ji, I have to say that, it is highly unlikely for me to accept any dogmatic philosophy presented in the names of Guru Sahiban because they freed the seekers unlike your views that advocate that they put back them into new ritualism and codes. I respect your views, you are very wonderful as it comes to be a Sikh,: however, deep down in me, refuses to follow what you advocate as true Sikhi. I love and respect those SEHAJDHARI SIKHS, also those who say only way is to take amrit to be Sikh as every one is entitled to have opinion. Amrit ceremony did nothing to me save for good feelings but it was Gurbani that started a war within me. As far as Antonio ji’s question, namjapji and I answered as we believe is right. You wrote as you believe; let’s leave it to her to do whatever she believes in. Sikhs if harbor narrow and rigid attitude towards being Sikh, chances are more that it could hurt it instead of helping it. Thanks.
You don't have to buy anything. But you're confusing a Living transmission as if it were meaningless ritual. Let's look at some things.
Guruji is understandable to the simple, but He isn't simple-minded,
Never ever I even dared to think contrary to that, who am I ? a simple minded trying to understand Revealed Gurbani !!
He is a Living Master. And Guru's teachings have a depth which is greater than even astro-physics. No human being can understand the depths of Guru. Do you accept Gurbani is deeper and more meaningful than the Vedas?
Well said, Bhain ji , why have you made this an issue? Truly I don’t need any thing to know about Vedas because Gurbani itself is my refuge.
I have given you Gurbani citations. All you give is "you don't buy it." Would you also claim no proof exists for Khande Ki Pahul as being Gur Deekhya? You imply this when you claim Khande Ki Pahul and the Rehit Maryada were created just to keep a disciplined Army for the political purpose of defending against the Mughals.
With due respect, lets look at your latest Gurbani quotes about charan pahul. Hope no one will be offended. All these Guru Vaak do not support Charan Pahul, translator has problem to understand the meaning of a Punjabi idiom” pair/ charan dho ke peene”, its meaning is to regard extremely high, to get idea of charan pahul out of it, it is like a joke played on words. In the last of, Bhai Gurdas deean Varan, it is written if these were read many times some thing good will be rewarded by the Devine. Not a one reference is found in any of the Gurbani where materialistic gains were traded with Gurbani reciting or falling in love for GOD. Should we listen to Gurbani in this context or others to open up a shop that will guarantee financial gains for doing path of such and such Bani. It is called spiritual suicide. So that quote, if implied properly, leads us to unconditional love and respect for the Guru and his spiritual powers. Still I refuse to buy it because distortion becomes grenade to make us limbless in prospect of progressing.
. Now you are complaining vaars and references used to support Guru-chela relationship and Guruji being a Master Yogi didn't support Charan Pahul. The reference to Sidh Gost, for example proves Guru Nanak Dev Ji was accepted as a Master Yogi by the Yogis and Siddhas of the time. Or do you dispute this? And that was the only point.
What are you trying to prove here? Let’s quote Guru Nanak ji in this context because now Yoga theory you are referring from no where. Here is a complete rejection of this practice, only Naam Simran, good deeds are given importance. Such Shabad are for those who have very high state of mind, Guru ji talks here directly about Yoga, in the following Shabad, no ambiguity at all.
jogI kY Gir jugiq dsweI ] iqqu kwrix kin muMdRw pweI ] muMdRw pwie iPrY sMswir ] ijQY ikQY isrjxhwru ] jyqy jIA qyqy vwtwaU ] cIrI AweI iFl n kwaU ] eyQY jwxY su jwie is\wxY ] horu PkVu ihMdU muslmwxY ] sBnw kw dir lyKw hoie ] krxI bwJhu qrY n koie ] sco scu vKwxY koie ] nwnk AgY puC n hoie ]2] {pMnw 951-952}
“ Meanin in essence”The Way of Yoga is demonstrated in the Yogi’s monastery. They wear ear-rings to show the way. Wearing ear-rings, they wander around the world. The Creator Lord is everywhere. All human beings are like travelers. When one’s call for going from here is issued, there is no delay. Only those who realize HIM here are recognized here after Others, whether Hindu or Muslim, are just talk in vain. Everyone is accounted for the actions; without the good deeds, no one gets liberation. One who is lost into memory of True Lord , O Nanak, is not called to account hereafter.
So based on this Guru Vaak, Bhain Ji respectfully I have to strongly disagree with your Yoga thing, Guru ji reduces it to of no use, it is the deeds not the ceremonies, its is Naam Simran being in love with Him, not all other show off that are not recognizable in HIS court.
Ceremonies and rituals are easy to do, hard is to battle with the mind which is deeply corrupted by MAYA SHOW of the world.
you can't change the original meanings or deny the obvious either. Charnamrit = charan (feet) + amrit (nectar). It is holy water from the feet of a Guru. Nectar from the feet of God. This definition is found in Vedas, Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc.
Guru Ji made me done with Mahabharta and other mythical episodes.
"Kal taaran Guru Nanak aya,Sikhaan charanamrit pilaya" meaning: "Guru Nanak arrived to deliver Kalyug,
I don’t think you are aware of the fact that Guru ji is also critic of yugas as good or bad and made clear only that time is SATYUG when HE is remembered. He rejected all trash to bring seeker close to GOD. Dragging back was a good attempt of those people who took over Sikh Dharmsalas when Sikhs were fighting a gorilla War to survive. One person named Bhai Santokh Singh interprets Gurbani by completely making Vedas a base and gives different meaning of the same Guru Vaak( Taran Singh” Gurbani deean viakhya Parnalian page122) More confusion is forced on Sikhs.
Sikhs were given Charan-Amrit to drink. The fact that this is an ancient Indic trandition seems to escape you. You don't accept it. That doesn't mean there aren't historical source references or a thousands year old religious structure that supports it.
Why would Guru ji accept it in the first place? He has to systematically annul all those rituals and he did it. When he refers to Vedas he ask people to find out a fact in there is to worship/ simr HIM only.
It was changed by Dasam Pita Ji because He put an end to human Guru lineage and invested the Shabd-Jyot into Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.
Respected Bhain Ji wake up, Guru Gobind singh Didn’t change anything started by Guru Nanak Jot.. That is also contradiction. Why would he do it?. Even Khalsa concept is also put in practice as desired by Guru Nanak for self protection.
As part of Khande Ki Pahul in 1699, Guruji also invested His Shabd-Jyot and spiritual authority into Guru Panj Piare since it would not be possible for transmission to occur with Charan Pahul without a human Guru
You can say here spiritual power but not Shabad jot,, I resent that. And as per your own words in last post, it was only one to have honor of Guruship, that is Guru Granth sahibJi
Mann exemplifies this with the initiation rite (charan pahul) at Kartarpur. Using Bhai Gurdas's var (1: 23) Mann explains this as follows: 'the initiate's toe was washed and other Sikhs drank that water' (p. 28). These details are corroborated in the Persian work Dabistan-i-Mazahib (School of Religions), written in the 1640s.
The Sikh Times - Book Reviews - A New Definition of Sikhism"
We cannot just pick and use from Persian sources because a lot of in them are extremely disrespectful towards Guru Ji and Sikhs. It is like this; if suits take it, if not, discard it.
. I've cited a number of historical references and Gurbani. All you've cited is the statement, "Historical references prove..."
Gurbani quoted by you, simply expresses about Disciple and Guru, that is not the issue here.
They do? What references?
” Singh” name added to their names is found in none of the old books written about them, or references given about them.
You say Bhai Kannaya and Bhai Nand Lal Ji were not amritdhri due to the absence of Singh as a last name.
Yes, if amrit ceremony would have taken place, they would have definitely SINGH tagged with their name, no doubt about it.
HERE YOU HAVE ALSO ANSWERED ANTONIO JI”S QUESTION ABOUT NAME CHANGING. If we accept as you say they were amritdhari but didn’t tag name with Singh, then what is problem here? Either way one view has to go wrong.
While this is a curious matter, it's an inference, not proof. By the same token we can ask, did Dasam Pita Ji have 3 wives? Was Mata Jeeto ji, Mata Suridari ji and Mata Sahib Kaur ji three different persons or names of one?
You cannot use by the same token here, they do not exist in History as Singhs as Mata ji with three names, give me a break, reason has its own beauty, it refuses fake decorations.
To jump to the conclusion based on curiosity of the way history has recorded a name is not proof one way or the other. What you're doing is denying Guru deekhya completely on the basis that Bhai Kennaya and Bhai Nand Lal Ji aren't called Singh. To be honest, you don't present that persuasive evidence simply claiming, "historical sources prove." How do historical sources prove there was no Guru-chela discipleship, no Gur-deekhya, no Charan Pahul, and thus no need for Khande Ki Pahul? I'm still waiting for your evidence. By simply saying you don't accept, that's just opinion. By saying Sikh institutions are overrun with hypocrites also doesn't disprove anything.
Bhainj see the difference” If it is” and It is?” You keep distorting my statements for no reason. I tried to make it clear earlier that if Akaal Takhat is taken over by hypocrites, should we listen to them or Guru Granth Sahib?
Secondly I have given you the detail why Tenth Master started amrit ceremony, second, known Sikhs in his time were let out as a Sikhs without amrit. I just cannot see Guru ji having that kind of dogmatic approach towards Naam Seekers. Many people of other faiths met him and were extremely respected him, offered to die for him and they did but Guru ji never ever even asked them to have it. If it were highly necessary for Naam, why wouldn’t he do it? If amrit ceremony was not for self defense, why new kind of symbols was introduced? As per your views, Sikh Dharm was not complete till tenth Master who introduced amrit ceremony. I just cannot imagine Tenth Master be harboring your knd of views like Yoga thing,and that Khalsa has nothing to do with self defense and it was an initiation only for Naam.
By saying Punjab is full of people who are failing to live up to the standards of Sikhi is sad. But again, it doesn't prove anything about Gur-deeksha.
I wrote it just to make you realize outer appearance cannot alone enough for being Sikh. Let people come into fold, let them be ready, when time come, people go for that. This rigidness is totally futile in context of Guru Nanak’s teachings. You are missing a point here, as they do not exist as Ghaneea Singh and Nand Lal Singh in the history, how come chela and Guru and dikshya prevailed in their case without amrit ceremony, obviously it was not for every one. Fake letters are manufactured, fake Hukamnamas are made, none of them prove that Guru ji walked in to that narrow window ever. Now coming back to your trashing my examples I gave. Coloring the truth, doesn’t change the truth. You have no proof in writing by any Guru who supported charan pahul or amrit ceremony as mandatory or to be accepted it to be as real Sikh. Why I don’t accept? Reasoning given behind these is crippled with imaginations.
Let's analyze some of the sources of Charan Pahul closely:
ਚਰਨਧੋਇਰਹਰਾਸਿਕਰਿਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਸਿਖਾਂਪੀਲਾਇਆ।
charan dhoi raharaasi kari charanaamritu sikhaan peelaaiaa|
He washed His feet, eulogised God and got his Disciples drink the ambrosia of his feet.
Var1, Pauri 3, Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਸੁਖਫਲਪਿਰਮਰਸੁਚਰਣੋਦਕੁਗੁਰਚਰਣਪਖਾਲੇ।
guramukhi sukh dhal piram rasu charanodaku gur charan pakhaalay|
Gurmukhs having the desire of the fruits of delight with all love wash the feet of the guru.
It is all about high regard for Guru.
I wash the Guru's Feet, and drink in this water. ||1||
ਗੁਰਕੀਰੇਣੁਨਿਤਮਜਨੁਕਰਉ॥
gur kee raen nith majan karo ||
I take my daily bath in the dust of the Guru's Feet.
ਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੀਹਉਮੈਮਲੁਹਰਉ॥੨॥
janam janam kee houmai mal haro ||2||
The egotistical filth of countless incarnations is washed off. ||2||
~SGGS Ji p. 239
It is also same idea, now bear in mind, “charan dhoke peene” is a Punjabi idiom, it implies very high regard, so thinking it as an act will not match the meaning of the following Guru Vaak, quoted by you but look at it
“My consciousness is filled with yearning and hope to meet my Lord, and drink in the sublime essence of His Lotus Feet. ||1||Pause||
~SGGS Ji p. 1268
Now here how one can wash feet of GOD and drink it. People just take one vaak and then use it as it pleases to them.
As quoted by you,in SGGS 134, all about greatness of Guru,SGGS 128, Respect for Guru,SGGS 207 about blessings of Guru,SGGS 1325 it’s a hint towards those who remain in defiance to Guru,SGGS 1399, again power of Guru to change people as hard as wood, Milar Rag, again about surrender to Guru,SGGS 96, ambrosial is His Naam,, SGGS 1302, seeker thanks to Guru and talks about mercy of the Lord.
Nothing is stated it as a charan pahul as an initiation.
In the following, code of conduct is referred to what Guru ji says numerous time as good deeds.
Quote
kehath mukath sunath mukath rehath janam rehathae ||
Those who speak are liberated, and those who listen are liberated; those who keep the Rehit, the Code of Conduct, are not reincarnated again. 1230
Respectfully, Harjas Kaur Bhain ji, I have to say that, it is highly unlikely for me to accept any dogmatic philosophy presented in the names of Guru Sahiban because they freed the seekers unlike your views that advocate that they put back them into new ritualism and codes. I respect your views, you are very wonderful as it comes to be a Sikh,: however, deep down in me, refuses to follow what you advocate as true Sikhi. I love and respect those SEHAJDHARI SIKHS, also those who say only way is to take amrit to be Sikh as every one is entitled to have opinion. Amrit ceremony did nothing to me save for good feelings but it was Gurbani that started a war within me. As far as Antonio ji’s question, namjapji and I answered as we believe is right. You wrote as you believe; let’s leave it to her to do whatever she believes in. Sikhs if harbor narrow and rigid attitude towards being Sikh, chances are more that it could hurt it instead of helping it. Thanks.
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