Sikh Girls: A Confused Lot. Are Parents To Blame?

[Rajwinder]

Ok guys first of all I think we are diverting from the main topic in the thread ! any ways my opinion is :

U can live life in Infinite number of ways ,, Now in life when u do something how u judge that this is wrong and that is right ???? I think u do that based on ur exp or someone else exp u heard of. Now our guru's what they did is shared those experiences with GOD and all other imp things in life in the form of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

See why we go to school ?

To learn good things and rise in life from career pint of view ( Atleat now a days schools are like that ).
And we do wear uniform in the school. Which signifies that u r commitied to somethings and discilplne.

I think ur Gurus want the same thing in the real life as career is one thing and actaull life contains allot of other htings. so they told us to wear this uniform and follow the dischliplne .

Now things that comes to our mind is should we follow these ?

I would say in todays world every minute we are distracted by so many things that we woulnt give much importance to things like "RELIGION".

I am Beard and I use to wear Turban. And I roamed whole Europe and USA. In the begining I was very depressed when people use to call me "osama" in trians when i was in germany. That was the first time i thought that why i am like this .. why to wear turban , why to have beard ?? I went to few sites but frankly i wouldn get impressed. The one thing comes to my mind . most of the young blood in that country is doing things which are not normal to me like Hen shaped colored hairs , Toung peireced , colored lenses bla bla ... And no body lasughs at them ??? So I relalised that they are laughing at me caus they dont know why i am wearing this. And only due to this reason i should go ahead and remove all these things doesn sound good idea to me.

So i would say Sikh is one who follows the dress code + the teachings of the gurus.

And if ur not 100 % up to this mark then I dont think this should be taken as negative I would say MORE u follow these things - MORE you will Gain and that is true for all the schools in the world.

 

[Dimitri]

Path to God/Waheguru is through true Guru, Guru Granth is equal to living Guru for any Sikh. if one is living by its teachings/message then he/she will obtain salvation

 

[Nim_23]

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.


VERY TRUE, I AS A GIRL AGREE WITH YOU. I COME FROM A TRADITIONAL FAMILY TOO. OUR THIRD GENERATION IS IGNORANT ABOUT THEIR RELIGION UNLIKE THOSE FROM OTHER RELIGIONS SUCH AS MUSLIMS & CHRISTIANS.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

MY PARENTS THOUGHT ME, I LEARNT IN SCHOOL AND WENT INTO PERSONAL LEARNING OF MY RELIGION RECENTLY TO FIND OUT MORE. I DISCOVERED THAT SOMETIMES OUR PARENTS/FRIENDS/TEACHERS/ETC ETC ARE NOT TOO CORRECT ABOUT WHAT THEY TEACH US.

FOR E.G UNTIL TODAY IN INDIA AND SINGAPORE ‘JATH PATH – CASTE SYSTEM’ ARE LOOKED AT WHEN A SIKH GIRL/BOY IS TO GET MARRIED. MOST PEOPLE RECEIVED THIS KNOWLEDGE FROM THEIR PARENTS AND HAVE PASSED IT DOWN TO THE NEXT GENERATION WHICH CONSISTS OF US TOO.

IF WE ARE IGNORANT AND DO NOT READ ABOUT OUR HISTORY/RELIGION WE TOO WILL BE IN THE SAME MISCONCEPTION FOR LIFE. TRUTH IS GURU NANAK HAS SAID THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SUCH CASTE SYSTEM. HE DISAGREED WITH THE CASTE SYSTEM. HE WANTED A CASTE RIDDEN SOCIETY.


THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM IN THE SIKH SOCIETY. THOSE WHO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF SIKHISM MAY NOT BE KNOWING THE EXACTLY RIGHT THING AND THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGE CANNOT BE BOTHERED TO FIND OUT MORE. THERE ARE EVEN SOME WHO ARE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE BUT YET BECOME FANATICS AND BECOME A PAIN TO OTHERS INSTEAD OF A TEACHER.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

MY DEAR INFACT IN EVERY RELIGION THERE ARE BLACK SHEEPS. THERE ARE MUSLIMS WHO ARE AWARE OF SUCH THINGS BUT STILL DO JUST LIKE OUR SIKHS. RELIGION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE SEE IT IN THAT WAY, SAD TO SAY.

PEOPLE CAN BE ADVISED AGAINST HARMING THEIR HEALTH BU CONSUMING ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTES BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT’S THEIR DECISION. MY DEAR YOU CAN PUT WATER IN FRONT OF A HORSE MOUTH BUT YOU CAN’T FORCE IT TO DRINK THE WATER.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

I STRONGLY AGREE WITH YOU AND I FEEL VERY EMBARRASS ABOUT IT. INFACT IN SINGAPORE THEY EVEN HAVE A 5 FLOOR CLUB ‘SINGAPORE KHALSA ASSOCIATION’ WHERE TRADITIONAL SIKH WEDDINGS ARE HELD AND SO ARE PARTIES. MOST PEOPLE HOLD THEIR TRADITIONAL SIKH WEDDING SO THAT THEY CAN OFFER NON-VEGETARIAN FOOD ON THE GROUND FLOOR.

IMAGINE A SAME HALL THAT IS BEING USED AS A DARBAR SAHIB – TO HOLD A TRADITIONAL SIKH WEDDING CEREMONY IN THE MORNING IS BEING USED AS A PARTY HALL IN THE EVENING WITH MEAT AND ALCOHOL. WHERE IS THE LOGIC AND THE RESPECT FOR OUR GURU GRANTH SAHIB???

THE GURU GRANTH SAHIB IS NOT LEFT IN THIS HALL OVERNIGHT BUT IS ONLY BROUGHT IN WHEN A SIKH TRADITIONAL WEDDING IS TO TAKE PLACE IN THE MORNING FROM A GURDWARA BUT I STILL FEEL IT IS NOT RIGHT.

THERE ARE EVEN SIKH WEDDINGS WHERE RIGHT AFTER THE LUNCH THE GROOM SIDE GO TO THE LOUNGE WHICH IS ALSO IN THE SAME CLUB BUT ON A DIFFERENT FLOOR OF THE BUILDING TO HAVE BOOZE AND THEN COME BACK FOR THE ‘SAGAN CEREMONY’.

ALSO THERE ARE SIKH WEDDINGS THAT ARE HELD IN GURDWARAS WHERE RIGHT AFTER THE LUNCH THE GROOM SIDE GO TO SOME LOUNGE AND THEN COME BACK FOR THE ‘SAGAN’ CEREMONY TO THE GURDWARA. ONCE AGAIN WHERE IS THE RESPECT TO OUR RELIGION WHICH SAYS THAT MEAT AND ALCOHOL IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE GURDWARA? IS IT RIGHT TO DRINK AND ENTER THE GURDWARA?

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

EXACTLY!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

MOST OF OUR YOUNGSTERS COME TO ‘CHECK OUT’ EACH OTHER…IF YOU GET WHAT I MEAN….WOMEN ARE FOREVER GOSSIPING ABOUT OTHER’S FAMILY, COMMENTING ON OTHER’S SUITS ETC ETC

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace?? People should make a contribution elsewhere.


ONE THING IS PERHAPS THAT’S THE BEST WAY WE CAN GET A DONATION FROM OUR SIKH COMMITTEE… THEY CAN SPEND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS PURCHASING BOLLYWOOD VCDS, ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES, CLOTHES, NEW SUITS ETC ETC BUT THEY FIND IT DIFFICULT TO DONATE TO GURDWARAS. IF NO ONE DONATES THAN WE WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY MANAGING TOO.

SO I REALLY CAN’T COMMENT ON THIS PART.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

IN THE OLDEN DAYS PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEENS OUR GURUS COULD HAVE DRAWN POTRAITS OF THEM AND PERHAPS THAT’S HOW IT WAS FIGURED OUT HOW OUR GURUS LOOK.

HAVING PICTURES OR STATUES OF THEM IS NOT AGAINST OUR RELIGION. PRAYING TO STATUES AND POTRAITS IS AGAINST SIKHISM. THESE PICTURES AND POTRAITS ARE A REMINDER TO SIKH OF THE SACRIFICES OUR GURUS HAVE MADE FOR US SIKHS.

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!!

IT IS TRUE THAT EVERYTHING STARTS FROM OUR FAMILY. IF OUR FAMILY IS NOT FOLLOWING OUR RELIGION WE CHILDREN HAVE DOUBTS TOO.

BUT IF WE CAN DO A SOUL-SEARCH FOR OURSELVES WE WILL FIND THE RIGHT PATH. GURU NANAK’S PARENTS WERE NOT THE ONE WHO FOUND HIM HIS PATH, IT WAS HIS OWN INTEREST AND LOVE FOR GOD THAT BROUGHT HIM FURTHER.

WE WILL THEN SEE THE LIGHT AND PERHAPS WHEN WE SEE THIS LIGHT WE MAY BE ABLE TO LET THE RAYS OF IT FALL ON OUR FAMILY/THOSE CLOSE TO US WHO MAY THEN REALISE THEIR DOINGS AS WELL.

ANOTHER THING IS THAT, I WOULD HAVE BEEN PROUD OF OUR ‘MODERN SIKHS’ IF DESPITE BEING MODERN THEY KNEW THEIR RELIGION AND STOOD BY IT BUT OT SEEMS OTHERWISE.

SO FAR I HAVE ONLY HEARD OF ONE SUCH YOUNG BOY WHO DOES NOT HAVE LONG HAIR, HE IS A MODERN SIKH BUT HE PRAYS AND BELIEVES IN HIS RELIGION, SIKHISM.

HE HAS STUDIED SIKHISM AND CONTRIBUTES TO THE GURDWARA IN VARIOUS WAYS. HE IS SAID TO BE ABLE TO CLARIFY ANY DOUBTS THAT YOU MAY HAVE IN SIKHISM.

HE IS FROM SINGAPORE AND I HAVE YET TO MEET HIM. HIS NAME IS AMANDEEP SINGH.

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

I believe i have been bought up in quite a tradtional family. Tradtional being the operative word. I am talking generally now, but so many of the third generation have no clue about Sikhism.

I have many muslim and hindu friends, and they have been taught about their religion by their parents. In any predicament or situation, my muslim friends know what is right and wrong. This is not simply what their parent have told them is right and wrong but because they know from a religious standpoint.

Take for example the case of alcohol. Muslims know that they should not drink, it is wrong in their religion. Wheras myself and many of my Sikh friends and family are simply told girls don't drink. But our brothers and fathers go out drinking and come back drunk. What does this show us.

In Sikh families tradtion meanS that girls have so many more pressures than boys. Take again for example drinking alcohol, boys will go out with their friends and have a good time.If girls do the same thing they are more likely to be ridden with guilt. The words of their parents will echoin their heads. But shouldn't it be the words of Sikhism, that drinking is wrong. Many of hindu friends are know that they shouldn't drink, this is because their parents have taught them it is wrong and have led by example. Some of my hindu frinds do drink, but in each case their parents are aware, and they are encouraged to move away from the habit. Muslim girls are aware that their religion teaches not to drink and they don't.

Think about sikh weddings, it is a religious ceremony. But straight after everybody heads off to the party where there is alcohol galore. So what does that teach us? I simply do not get it. Isn't alcohol against sikhism..why have it on a wedding... a religious union? I understand why Christains have alchocol at weddings.. because it isn't againt Christianity. Mulisms don't need alcohol to celebrate.... so many Sikh men just drink, and show themselves up.

How many Sikh children know what the five K's mean?? I bet less than half the UK population of Sikh Children are aware. How many children know what Vaishaki means? To many it means a fun trip to the mela, and a fun walk with free food. Yes but ask muslim childen about ramadan or why they are fasting and they will tell you.

Many of the Sikhs of my generation are louts. They like the glory of their religion. You will see so many young people supporting khanda but not because they are proud of their relgion but because they look cool!!!

The gurdwara is another thing that grates me. How many young people actually listen. There are mobiles going off, children running around, old ladies bantering and gossiping. Pleas for money. Its like a playground. You don't get that in a mosque or church. People know what they are there for.

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace??People should make a contribution elsewhere.

Also in Sikhism thier should be no idols. But why are there so many picturs, and statues? How do we know what Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like or any of the other gurus. Why do we have picturs of them in the gurdwara? Isn't it against the teachings????

On many occassions Sikh parents let thier sons cut their hair.... but their daughters are expected to keep it long. At a young age, i thought that the only rason girls didn't cut thier hair was becasue it would make them look like ummm 'bad girls!' We wern't actually told that Sikhs aren't supposed to tamper with thier bodies. Even if we were told this i guess we still would have been confused because we would question why does my father or brother have short hair?!!!

Sikhs in this country are confused. I forsee many of my generation moving away from a this religion because we just don't get it!!

 

[Nim_23]

LASTLY: If your parents have not taught you a single thing on Sikhism then they are perhaps to be blamed. However, if they have given you knowledge on it then you should find out more: as it is your religion, your right to know more about it and by the way you should know about your religion. If your parents have told you all about your religion but yet you stray away from it then YOU ARE TO BE BLAMED not your parents.

No parent would want their children to go astray or to become bad. Parents always wish the best for their children...But children prefer to choose their own paths...

 

[parminder_singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

I agree with the fact that the primary responsibilty of teaching children about Sikhism lie with the parents. I can give my example. I am a keshdhari sikh based in the US currently.

As young child, my parents tried their best to get me and my brother to goto gurudwara. They have had to force us at times to go there and I must say that we did not like that. But their perseverance finally paid off. My brother is a very active sevadar in the gurudwara and although I am currently based in the US, I try to do my best.

It is important that the foundations are laid by the parents. But once the kids have become sensible, they should try to obtain more information to eliminate doubts about Sikhi. The internet is a great place to find information. Moreover, Granthi of any gurudwara would be more than glad to answer your question.

Also I would like to comment on the money box in gurudwaras. You are not bowing to the box. You are bowing in front of the guru. The box has 2 reasons to be there. As aptly said, that is the primary form of donations for the gurudwara. Remember that a gurudwara is also like an institution. There are certain expenses that need to be taken care of. The Granthis have to be paid, utility bills have to be paid, the langar and kada prasad have to be arranged. The donations are used to sustain the gurudwara. Every little bit helps. If you do not want to offer any money, that is fine. Nobody is forcing that. But its a good practice. It helps keep the gurudwara operational.

Second reason, Sikhs have the concept of "Daswand" which means setting aside 10% of your earnings to help the needy. Since almighty has given you all the resources, 10% should be put in god's service and rest can be used anyway one wants. That does not neccessarrily mean giving to gurudwara for elaborate lavish langars, but some donations help. Rest should be used to help out people in need.

I hope this all helps in increasing your understanding, if only by a bit. I realize that I may have used "you" and "one" loosely, but I do not mean you personally, I just mean anyone reading this post. Lastly, I apologize if I may be offending anyone. I by no means claim to understand Sikhi completly, just trying to help.

Parminder

I mean why do we have to place money and then bow down when we go to the gurdwara? I don't undertstand. It is a silly concept with no meaning (money not bowing). When we go to the gurdwara to pray, that is what should matter. There is no place for a money box in the gurdwara... i resent bowing infront of it. What is the significace?? People should make a contribution elsewhere.


ONE THING IS PERHAPS THAT’S THE BEST WAY WE CAN GET A DONATION FROM OUR SIKH COMMITTEE… THEY CAN SPEND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS PURCHASING BOLLYWOOD VCDS, ALCOHOL, CIGARETTES, CLOTHES, NEW SUITS ETC ETC BUT THEY FIND IT DIFFICULT TO DONATE TO GURDWARAS. IF NO ONE DONATES THAN WE WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY MANAGING TOO.

SO I REALLY CAN’T COMMENT ON THIS PART.

 

[Pukandi Baba]

Recently i have come to realise that many sikh girls like myself face too many personal battles.

All your points are very valid.

I blame NOBODY but the parents. The first teachers (Guru) are our parents, if they had led an example then us kids would have followed.

They tell us they came over to this country and had to intergrate, fine, so did the muslims but did they neglect Islam? No!

Could the Sikhs not manage to balance their social life and Religious life? Obviously not. It infuriates me now to see elders with there grey beards sitting in the Gurdwara praying that their children would only listen, why should they, it was them that decided to stay in the pubs, after work instead of doing seva at the Gurdwara, and keeping kesh. Well my friends this is a case of 'You reap what you sow'

If the first Sikhs who came into England had gone about doing things that were carefully thought through many of these parents wouldn't have been in the situations they are in NOW! :}

LASTLY: If your parents have not taught you a single thing on Sikhism then they are perhaps to be blamed. .

Sikhi can't be found at the bottom of a pint of beer.

Most fathers spend time gulping down beer than go to the Gurdwara and learn about Sikhi! So how on earth can they teach their kids!!

 

[max314]

Mm...I think that part of the problem is that even most parents don't actually know enough about Sikkhism.

The things that their children in Western countries are told to do/not to do are based on their own cultural traditions from back home as opposed to any religious guidelines.

Personally, I don't drink. I'm a guy with cut hair born into a Sikkh family, but things like drinking or sex before marriage is totally out of my mindset - not so much for religious reasons, but because I have made a decision as to what I believe is 'right' and 'wrong'. 'Peer pressure', contrary to most peoples' opinions, doesn't actually exist. It only exists in one's head. If someone offers me a drink I just say "no thanks". It's not as though a big group of them suddenly gather round me and point a finger...they just offer me a couple more times and then they just leave it.

I do understand the frustration that some Sikkh girls might have seeing the division in treatment between sons and daughters (equality, huh? :}: ), but I think that a sense of moral grounding can get anyone through the more awkward times.

The thing about Sikkhi is that we don't actually have a 'sin and repentence' thing going on. The moral actions in the Granth come from a very logical place (alcohol and cigarettes are simply bad for your health, hence why they should not be done), and aren't about God striking you down with lightning if you don't do it. This is a blessing for the free-minded, but can be a curse for the weak-willed who actually crave a solid set of rules to avoid having to be strong and thoughtful.

 

[Pukandi Baba]

Mm...I think that part of the problem is that even most parents don't actually know enough about Sikkhism.

The things that their children in Western countries are told to do/not to do are based on their own cultural traditions from back home as opposed to any religious guidelines.

Personally, I don't drink. I'm a guy with cut hair born into a Sikkh family, but things like drinking or sex before marriage is totally out of my mindset - not so much for religious reasons, but because I have made a decision as to what I believe is 'right' and 'wrong'. 'Peer pressure', contrary to most peoples' opinions, doesn't actually exist. It only exists in one's head. If someone offers me a drink I just say "no thanks". It's not as though a big group of them suddenly gather round me and point a finger...they just offer me a couple more times and then they just leave it.

I do understand the frustration that some Sikkh girls might have seeing the division in treatment between sons and daughters (equality, huh? :}: ), but I think that a sense of moral grounding can get anyone through the more awkward times.

The thing about Sikkhi is that we don't actually have a 'sin and repentence' thing going on. The moral actions in the Granth come from a very logical place (alcohol and cigarettes are simply bad for your health, hence why they should not be done), and aren't about God striking you down with lightning if you don't do it. This is a blessing for the free-minded, but can be a curse for the weak-willed who actually crave a solid set of rules to avoid having to be strong and thoughtful.

My juthi is solid...

Ik sir vich mara, ta sab kuch patta lag javega :u):

 

[Sikh]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum...have not read all the replies/comments for this post yet so forgive me if I am repeating some old topics. However, any replies/comments/questions would be appreciated.

I am a Sikh female living in the "Western World." As a young girl I had seen things in black and white: I thought I would live with an extended family, and get an arranged marriage. I was, and am, heavily into my books and school, my academics and future career. Maybe as a result of what I was taught growing up, I have always interpreted a "good Sikh" as being an honest and good person. However, being a Sikh Punjabi girl, other things were expected of me that I then agreed with...but now I am confused where the line is drawn between religion and Punjabi culture. I have always believed that religion is most important...but I do not know what the Guru Granth Sahib has to say about some issues.

When I was a child I was molested by a family member, and had told one of my parents about it. It was ignored and the one who did this to me continues to maintain ties and contact with my family. For a long long time, this did not affect me or my faith. As a girl I stuck to my studies. I never got involved with boys...I was taught that it was "bad" and that dating is bad...that a family's respect rides on the women in the family...that if they do something disrespectful, the family will be shamed in the community.

I believed this, I do still to some extent. But is dating bad? I have never, or will never have premarital sex. But now, as things get older I am confused about some other things. What if your parents are against you dating? Is dating against Sikh "protocol"? Dating of course involves touching and kissing, but in my case no sex to be blunt. It involves a full relationship with the person, caring about the person, (who is Sikh)...and of course no cheating...but what if your parents think this is bad and don't want you to do it? Then you are being deceitful right?

I have rambled a bit in this post...but I guess my main question and point is that I am very confused...I don't know anymore what is right and what is wrong. For a long time and still I can not bring myself to trust people because of my experiences as a child and the sexual abuse. I know that this is no excuse to lose the power to resist temptation. The most important thing is, I am trying to find God and strengthen my faith every day, and I can not even think of what He thinks is right or wrong when it comes to this issue. I will feel guilty if I see a boy who has a relationship kind of interest in me, if I hold his hand or kiss him. Recently this has happened in my life...and I feel nothing but confusion...I feel as though I cannot even feel any emotion because all I can hear in my head is what my family has repeated over and over...that premarital relationships (even though they do not involve premarital sex) make you a bad and dirty person. Maybe that is right, or maybe I am being naive or am "too innocent"...as I am often told. I feel like maybe I am drifting farther from God if I do this. I care about what God wants from me...and I know this is more important than even family or friends or sex or boys. But, knowing what He wants from me is the hard part. Do I stop seeing this person?

Please let me know what you all think...about dating, what is right, what is wrong ...and if anyone specifically is familiar with the Guru Granth Sahib I would really appreciate a reply. I have learned as I have grown that finding God is not a black and white straight path quest...you will encounter obstacles along the way...I look forward to getting some insight into this issue

 

[max314]

My juthi is solid...

Ik sir vich mara, ta sab kuch patta lag javega :u):

Mm...I have strong moral values, but my parents never beat it into me.

I think that parents need to start instilling a fundamental sense of morals into their children from an early age, and not just start lecturing them very loudly (punctuated by the odd juthi-smashing, of course :}{}{} when they start arriving home at 4 o'clock in the morning {censored}ed to the bone at the age of 16.

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum...have not read all the replies/comments for this post yet so forgive me if I am repeating some old topics. However, any replies/comments/questions would be appreciated.

I am a Sikh female living in the "Western World." As a young girl I had seen things in black and white: I thought I would live with an extended family, and get an arranged marriage. I was, and am, heavily into my books and school, my academics and future career. Maybe as a result of what I was taught growing up, I have always interpreted a "good Sikh" as being an honest and good person. However, being a Sikh Punjabi girl, other things were expected of me that I then agreed with...but now I am confused where the line is drawn between religion and Punjabi culture. I have always believed that religion is most important...but I do not know what the Guru Granth Sahib has to say about some issues.

When I was a child I was molested by a family member, and had told one of my parents about it. It was ignored and the one who did this to me continues to maintain ties and contact with my family. For a long long time, this did not affect me or my faith. As a girl I stuck to my studies. I never got involved with boys...I was taught that it was "bad" and that dating is bad...that a family's respect rides on the women in the family...that if they do something disrespectful, the family will be shamed in the community.

I believed this, I do still to some extent. But is dating bad? I have never, or will never have premarital sex. But now, as things get older I am confused about some other things. What if your parents are against you dating? Is dating against Sikh "protocol"? Dating of course involves touching and kissing, but in my case no sex to be blunt. It involves a full relationship with the person, caring about the person, (who is Sikh)...and of course no cheating...but what if your parents think this is bad and don't want you to do it? Then you are being deceitful right?

I have rambled a bit in this post...but I guess my main question and point is that I am very confused...I don't know anymore what is right and what is wrong. For a long time and still I can not bring myself to trust people because of my experiences as a child and the sexual abuse. I know that this is no excuse to lose the power to resist temptation. The most important thing is, I am trying to find God and strengthen my faith every day, and I can not even think of what He thinks is right or wrong when it comes to this issue. I will feel guilty if I see a boy who has a relationship kind of interest in me, if I hold his hand or kiss him. Recently this has happened in my life...and I feel nothing but confusion...I feel as though I cannot even feel any emotion because all I can hear in my head is what my family has repeated over and over...that premarital relationships (even though they do not involve premarital sex) make you a bad and dirty person. Maybe that is right, or maybe I am being naive or am "too innocent"...as I am often told. I feel like maybe I am drifting farther from God if I do this. I care about what God wants from me...and I know this is more important than even family or friends or sex or boys. But, knowing what He wants from me is the hard part. Do I stop seeing this person?

Please let me know what you all think...about dating, what is right, what is wrong ...and if anyone specifically is familiar with the Guru Granth Sahib I would really appreciate a reply. I have learned as I have grown that finding God is not a black and white straight path quest...you will encounter obstacles along the way...I look forward to getting some insight into this issue

Hey there

I think it goes without saying that I am so very, very sorry about what you had to experience when you were younger :} and I hope that you have/will be able to bring yourself to move on and create a strong foothold in your life as an independent young woman


On God:

When you talk about God, you seem to be talking about God like a living, thinking person who's up there in a chair looking down on each of us. Whilst turning God into a human being is a convenient and easy image to have for many of us, I'm afraid that the truth is a little less 'humanistic'. God is an all-pervasive force that is eternal and everlasting. He is not characterised in Gurbani as having any human traits, whatsoever. To quote the Mool Mantra that opens the Granth:

"There is but one God. He is all that is.
He is the Creator of all things, and He is all-pervasive.
He is without fear and without emnity.
He is timeless, unborn and self-existent.
He is the Enlightener
And can be realised by his grace alone.
He was true in the beginning; He was in all ages.
The True One, was - O, Nanak - and shall forever be."
~ 'Guru Granth Sahib', Japji, p.1 ~​

Morals (i.e. the sense of what is 'right' and 'wrong') is not God's decision, but that of the society that we are presented with. For example, in Western society, dating, etc is considered a societal norm. In Eastern culture, however...it's a little more taboo.

Personally, I don't look down on either side, but I have made a choice. I've made a choice not to date simply because I know that my parents would prefer it. They sometimes asked me if I've ever been interested in dating someone, and I've always told them that "it's okay, I've made up my mind and I'm gonna do things the 'old fashioned' way because I love you and because it's the idea I'm most used to".

It's important to realise that God doesn't factor into deciding whether or not this is 'right' or 'wrong'. The Guru Granth Sahib was not really created as a 'moral guide to dating'. It was more just a way to view God that differed from the attitudes of Muslims and Hindus (whilst sharing some commonalities, of course) and to instill a sense of moral righteousness in a very general sense. Therefore, maybe you'd be interested to know what the Granth says about Lust (deemed to be one of the Five Theives - essential to life, but dangerous if allowed to get out of control)? It says that meditating on the Great Force with all one's heart is a good way to cool such desires.


On you:

Essentially, I think that your main dilemma is that you are torn between:

1. - Wanting to have an actively romantic relationship, and...

2. - ...not wanting to impinge on the expectations of your community.

You basically have to decide which one you want and/or to find a way to come to a compromise. Yeah, it's always frustrating when other people (who are all as imperfect - if not moreso - as you, ma and everyone else) seem to think that they have the right to hold a judgemental opinion on you just because you are involved in something that they don't understand or have drawn a mental curtain across (like a monkey's gut reaction: "dating is bad, dating is bad!!"). But you know what? It really only matters if you let it matter.

Perhaps you'd consider sitting down with your parents and telling them precisely how you feel. Listen to what they have to say in return and see if you can come to an amicable agreement of some kind. Ensure that you all sit down with a positive attitude and make it very clear that you want things to be as civil and open-minded as possible.


And so:

Well, I hope I've been at least one little shred of help. Knowing me, I've just gaffed on for ages and not said anything worth hearing, but maybe there's something in my ramble that has made things a little clearer for you or has helped you come up with an idea for how to make things better for you.

Once again, I am so very sorry about what happened to you...I think I'm gonna be in a bad mood for the rest of the day now :}:. But you come across as a very intelligent and strong individual and I have every faith that you'll be just fine.

Best of luck :wink:

P.S. - Whilst I exercise self-restraint and self-discipline, most of my brethren seem to have the self-control of a dog. Not to impinge your trust too much, but do be careful and intelligent with whom you choose to give your heart to. Remember, once you've given it to someone, they can break it if they choose to. Make sure that the person you do give it to deserves to have it and is someone you totally trust. Be strong, be smart, be safe. Peace out

 

[sikh78910]

Re: live by example

anad101, i think your view is absolutely brilliant. too many parents, mostly dads, hypocritically tell thier children not to drink, and smoke, and expect thier children to listen. i just wish most parents could have the same view instead of drinking and in tooooo many sikh cases, making their families lives miserable and subjecting them to domestic violence from a young age. parents, seriously fix up!

 

[Rani_5]

HI I was brought up knowing all the correct reasons for not drinking as a Sikh girl, having respect for elders and validating my own opinion so I was able to judge for myself, my Parents can see that living in western culture is harder, and unless we hold up our own we are nothing.
I agree with Neutral Singh's comment about making money contribution elsewhere in the Gurdwara, this is especially the wrong message for our Children.
I am really disgusted at the bhangra videos and latest music, even to the extent that I cant enjoy parties anymore.
Since having a baby I can only try and be a good example.
WaheGuru knows who deeply understands in their heart and who is showing off just for the latest trends etc, and I, as a humble Sikh can only allow the true Guru and God to judge that.

 

[Gurtej Batra]

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh. After reading all the suggestions & the comments made by the everyone i believe that its not just the parents who should be blammed for all this but the kids play a major role in the same why cant kids take the initiative of going to gurudwara & devote their free time in Sewa or kirtan or anything that leads to Sikhi parents are responsible coz they actually dont practise what they preach as already mentioned by all of you so I would just like to request all of u to take this initiative of driving this Wonderful religion & its preachings all over n make sure that we follow it going to gurudwara is not the only thing that we are supposed to do even if we do Simran for five minutes everyday would lead us to where we want. So lets gear up n start Preaching it.

 

[jasi]

Dear Kiran ji. Sat Sri Akal ji.

What you are confused about are the facts . We should not be doing . Before British empire came to India we had been holding very high value of Shri Gobind singh ji 's teaching, We never had a room for cast sysytems. But we became worst during British empire believing so much in cast system even worst than Hindus who started this mess on the first place.Start drinking whiskies and alcohal. Morals droped down . Started giving and asking dowery in marriages. Started retual like Hindus which Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent all his life to teach us and radicated all the retual and idol worships.

British encouraged every one to add their family name thier sub-cast or family name at the end like Dhillon,Sagu ,mali,and many more. We supposed to have only name Singh as our family name . So we can stand all like a brother and sisters. You do not ask at the time of a marrioage if you are sikh or Ramgaria,or any cast as long as you have come from sikh family.But no we have ruiend every essence of sikhism.

Cast system is number one not beileve in.Intiated by Guru Nanak Dev ji.

No idol or retual to be performed by sikhs.Here we have a pictures all over and even status to bend our heads. Absolutly wrong.

It is ok when we always bow our heads in the Gurudwara to pay respect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and put whatever money as a contribution to cover the Gurudwara expances to run its operations .Otherwise there is no other purpose what so ever.

Refence to the use of alcohal. It is totally forbidden to sikhs But any intoxicants are prohibted to sikhs and moslims.We drink because our parents drinks and so on. Parents must practice exactly how they expect the childerns should follow them .

You have perfect reason to be confused as what you see. We have lost tottal sense of our true path which Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches us on very high level. There are people who started thier on sub line such Nirankari,radhaswami,many others by reading the same Guru Granth Sahib Ji but have thier own interpretaions of the Bani. Now millions of people followed the as a Guru where as it strictly against Gur Gobind Singh Ji when he said

"Guru Granth Ji manio pargat Guru ki dheh'

Coming to the point which I like to suggest by appreciating your boldness to post your inner strugle feelings on sikh forum,please continue to belive our principals of sikhism as there is no such wide open concept avalable in any faith which belives in all humanity welfare and consider all human being come from one light.
To tell you the truth you probably many peoples eys .What they preach and what they ptactice . Todays priest has also became a materlistic and speaking all kinds of lies. This is in all the relegion because all the society is embracing immorals practices.

Good luck you are living in very challanging world if you follow the teachings of sikhism ,you will have a btter chances to lead your life peacefully and sucessfull.

jaspi

 

[dalsingh]

Jaspi,

"Before British empire came to India we had been holding very high value of Shri Gobind singh ji 's teaching, We never had a room for cast sysytems. But we became worst during British empire believing so much in cast system even worst than Hindus who started this mess on the first place.Start drinking whiskies and alcohal. Morals droped down . Started giving and asking dowery in marriages. Started retual like Hindus which Shri Guru Nanak Dev Ji spent all his life to teach us and radicated all the retual and idol worships."

From my understanding Sikhs were doing this stuff before the British got there (not that it justifies them invading foreign countries!)

Even during Maharaja Ranjit's time, drinking and Hinduisation of Sikhs was strongly in place, as was having multiple wives. I do believe that they made the caste system worse by promoting differences, but the extent to which caste played a part in Sikh society is confusing. But you are right, today Sikhs seem more caste obsessed than even many Hindus. As for dowry!! I think Panjabis always gave gifts when their daughters were married but this has turned really ugly and evil now.

"British encouraged every one to add their family name thier sub-cast or family name at the end like Dhillon,Sagu ,mali,and many more. We supposed to have only name Singh as our family name . So we can stand all like a brother and sisters. You do not ask at the time of a marrioage if you are sikh or Ramgaria,or any cast as long as you have come from sikh family.But no we have ruiend every essence of sikhism.

Cast system is number one not beileve in.Intiated by Guru Nanak Dev ji."

Yes, now you bring it up, all the old Persian and even European documents from the 18th century generally do not refer to Sikhs with a surname other than Singh, something happened since then to make it commonplace to have your caste name.

"Refence to the use of alcohal. It is totally forbidden to sikhs But any intoxicants are prohibted to sikhs and moslims.We drink because our parents drinks and so on. Parents must practice exactly how they expect the childerns should follow them ."

This is controversial but some old rahit namas make reference to drink apparently, as do early European accounts. Panjabis are generally {censored}heads both here in the UK and back home from what I've seen.

"You have perfect reason to be confused as what you see. We have lost tottal sense of our true path which Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches us on very high level. There are people who started thier on sub line such Nirankari,radhaswami,many others by reading the same Guru Granth Sahib Ji but have thier own interpretaions of the Bani. Now millions of people followed the as a Guru where as it strictly against Gur Gobind Singh Ji when he said

"Guru Granth Ji manio pargat Guru ki dheh'"

Yeah, sant worship is becoming really common now.

"Coming to the point which I like to suggest by appreciating your boldness to post your inner strugle feelings on sikh forum,please continue to belive our principals of sikhism as there is no such wide open concept avalable in any faith which belives in all humanity welfare and consider all human being come from one light.
To tell you the truth you probably many peoples eys .What they preach and what they ptactice . Todays priest has also became a materlistic and speaking all kinds of lies. This is in all the relegion because all the society is embracing immorals practices.

Good luck you are living in very challanging world if you follow the teachings of sikhism ,you will have a btter chances to lead your life peacefully and sucessfull."

I agree, I think Sikhism does give a solid moral framework for life today that is more wholsome than most alternatives. I don't agree that Sikhism guarantees a more peaceful life though as it is "sharper than the edge of a Khanda"

 

[manjeet007]

hi,
i do agree with u, i think for this we should blame ourselves, there should be a strong rule over all these, like in muslim religion if any person is seen not obeying the rules abided in their religion , he or she is warned and even rusticated from their society. its high time now and we should personally take some effective measures and one more thing i just want to specify is that the sikh governing bodies like the SGPC, its their duty to see all these things are stopped , i feel that SGPC has totally failed in protecting the rights of sikhism and stopping all these.

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

 

[KChehal]

I totally agree with Baljeet. Only the pure (khalis) will remain! Sikhism is a beautiful religion if you learn to understand and appreciate it.

 

[Cherry Momsen]

Hello, I recently had the opportunity to read the Gurbani and I was overwhelmed and thrilled to find myself in there. I am woman who has a lot of faith and was raised as a christian but I have a flexable attitide. There is one God and I feel religion has not been a good thing. Anyway in the time being I have met a wonderful Sikh man it was love at first sight outside Tesco. He says his family are very traditional and believe in arranged marriages. Well I am very old fashioned and dont believe in sex outside of marraige but my parent are both dead and I dont have an other extended family to speak for me I believe God brought us together. I have started attend a temple and have been welcomed there. Is there any hope for a marriage to take place.
I love this man very very much we have a lot in common and I believe we could be very happy together. I am a highly spiritually evolved person and have no prejudices towards any religion.
Cherry Momsen

 

[jasi]

you wrote the right things. our leaders are more concenterated about thier memebership or chair than giving any heed to the young generation to follow the sikhism as it should be . there should be total blownout agends that we should stop using our so called family name . every one must have singh at last and women should be kaur as her family name. then their so cast and we can get marry our childeren only because other family is sikh.


every one is shocked? right.

we have become worst than even hindus . that is what Baba Guru Nanak Dev Ji eliminated among sikh. no cast sysytem.

secondly let all of us distroy all the pictors of our Gurus which are drawn by sobha singh ji or others . we are bowing our heads to these humanly drawn pictures pretending Baba Ji looked like that. also worshipping them. this is a deadly against our relegion


let me see how many you who read my comments reply to these two things who boast themselves diffrent from hindus and critisizing hindu's for idol worshipping. Gur Nanak Ji to not do these thing at all. bluntly you can creat the god,you can suppose the God ,He is omni present . then why we started the same retual and practices which are against our basic rules.

let us all be under one name singh and kaur for a womens.then there is cast system left.

i challenged shromini parbhandak committe in amritsar to reply me about this topic.also i open this topic to all the members of this forum. ARE WE FOLLOWING THE BASIC PRINCIPAL OF SIKH PILOSPHY OR FORBISDS CAST SYSTEM. IDOL OR PICTURES WORSHIPPINGS?. knowingly that ther was no original oicture we have about any of our Guru as hindu do not have any pictures of Rama or Krishna. Artist inspired pictures the these pictures going through all garabge recycling is big shame for especially sik to do it.it is shameful act.hasto stop.

jaspi

 

[satwant]

I believe the issue here is more of a woman not being able to do what her other friends of different faiths are doing. Does it matter that other girls are partying and drinking and you are not allowed? This shows the weakness in you as you wish to go with the flow. Has it ever occured to you that all the restrictions have been blessings in disguise so that you could follow the true teachings of the faith and be with GOD? Imagine the day when your parents tell you that go and do what others are doing and you have their blessings. You will just another number on the streets. A wasted person.

At least today you can stand tall and say that you are a true Sikh. But you could change the way people lead their lives. Remind them each time of the true teachings of the Gurus' and hopefully you can change their mentality.

I preach this to my daughter and she understand what Sikhism is all about and not beat around the bush what Sikh ought to be.

Satwant