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Sikh and Non-Vegiterian Food

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by vsvaid, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. vsvaid

    vsvaid
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    What does Sikhism says about non-vegiterian food?
     
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  3. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Gurfateh

    there is not restriction till it isnot Halal.

    But eating meat likie many other veg food can induce Kama or lust(Last line is opinon of Das(vijaydeep Singh))But for Har working people it is easyly digestable thing.
     
  4. Pukandi Baba

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Incorrect!

    Bhai Kabir ji mentions in a shabad that anyone eating Fish/eggs/meat or takes alcohol is forbidden.

    I'll find the shabad if need be.
     
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    here is the shabad by guru nanak dev ji
    akal takhat has already issued a hukamnama that
    an amritdhari sikh can eat meat as long as it is jhatka meat.sikh history is full of hunting.her is the shabad by guru nanak dev ji which says there is nothing wrong in eating meat

    Ú 1 ] (1289-15)
    mehlaa 1.
    First Mehl:

    mwsu mwsu kir mUrKu JgVy igAwnu iDAwnu nhI jwxY ] (1289-15, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
    The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.

    kauxu mwsu kauxu swgu khwvY iksu mih pwp smwxy ] (1289-16, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
    What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?

    gYNfw mwir hom jg kIey dyviqAw kI bwxy ] (1289-17, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
    It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.

    mwsu Coif bYis nku pkVih rwqI mwxs Kwxy ] (1289-17, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
    Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.

    PVu kir lokW no idKlwvih igAwnu iDAwnu nhI sUJY ] (1289-17, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
    They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.

    nwnk AMDy isau ikAw khIAY khY n kihAw bUJY ] (1289-18, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
    O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.

    AMDw soie ij AMDu kmwvY iqsu irdY is locn nwhI ] (1289-19, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
    They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.

    mwq ipqw kI rkqu inpMny mCI mwsu n KWhI ] (1289-19, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.
    They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.

    iesqRI purKY jW inis mylw EQY mMDu kmwhI ] (1290-1, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    istaree purkhai jaaN nis maylaa othai manDh kamaahee.
    But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh.

    mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] (1290-1, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maasahu nimmay maasahu jammay ham maasai kay bhaaNday.
    In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

    igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] (1290-2, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    gi-aan Dhi-aan kachh soojhai naahee chatur kahaavai paaNday.
    You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

    bwhr kw mwsu mMdw suAwmI Gr kw mwsu cMgyrw ] (1290-2, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    baahar kaa maas mandaa su-aamee ghar kaa maas changayraa.
    O master, you believe that flesh on the outside is bad, but the flesh of those in your own home is good.

    jIA jMq siB mwshu hoey jIie lieAw vwsyrw ] (1290-3, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    jee-a jant sabh maasahu ho-ay jee-ay la-i-aa vaasayraa.
    All beings and creatures are flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh.

    ABKu BKih BKu qij Cofih AMDu gurU ijn kyrw ] (1290-3, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    abhakh bhakheh bhakh taj chhodeh anDh guroo jin kayraa.
    They eat the uneatable; they reject and abandon what they could eat. They have a teacher who is blind.

    mwshu inMmy mwshu jMmy hm mwsY ky BWfy ] (1290-4, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maasahu nimmay maasahu jammay ham maasai kay bhaaNday.
    In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh.

    igAwnu iDAwnu kCu sUJY nwhI cquru khwvY pWfy ] (1290-4, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    gi-aan Dhi-aan kachh soojhai naahee chatur kahaavai paaNday.
    You know nothing of spiritual wisdom and meditation, even though you call yourself clever, O religious scholar.

    mwsu purwxI mwsu kqyb?ØI chu juig mwsu kmwxw ] (1290-4, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    maas puraanee maas kaytaabeeN chahu jug maas kamaanaa.
    Meat is allowed in the Puraanas, meat is allowed in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, meat has been used.

    jij kwij vIAwih suhwvY EQY mwsu smwxw ] (1290-5, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    jaj kaaj vee-aahi suhaavai othai maas samaanaa.
    It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them.

    iesqRI purK inpjih mwshu pwiqswh sulqwnW ] (1290-5, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    istaree purakh nipjahi maasahu paatisaah sultaanaaN.
    Women, men, kings and emperors originate from meat.

    jy Eie idsih nrik jWdy qW aun@ kw dwnu n lYxw ] (1290-6, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    jay o-ay diseh narak jaaNday taaN unH kaa daan na lainaa.
    If you see them going to hell, then do not accept charitable gifts from them.

    dyNdw nrik surig lYdy dyKhu eyhu iD|wxw ] (1290-7, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    dayNdaa narak surag laiday daykhhu ayhu Dhinyaanaa.
    The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven - look at this injustice.

    Awip n bUJY lok buJwey pWfy Krw isAwxw ] (1290-7, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    aap na boojhai lok bujhaa-ay paaNday kharaa si-aanaa.
    You do not understand your own self, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you are very wise indeed.

    pWfy qU jwxY hI nwhI ikQhu mwsu aupMnw ] (1290-7, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    paaNday too jaanai hee naahee kithhu maas upannaa.
    O Pandit, you do not know where meat originated.

    qoieAhu AMnu kmwdu kpwhW qoieAhu iqRBvxu gMnw ] (1290-8, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    to-i-ahu ann kamaad kapaahaaN to-i-ahu taribhavan gannaa.
    Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water.

    qoAw AwKY hau bhu ibiD hCw qoAY bhuqu ibkwrw ] (1290-8, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    to-aa aakhai ha-o baho biDh hachhaa toai bahut bikaaraa.
    Water says, "I am good in many ways." But water takes many forms.

    eyqy rs Coif hovY sMinAwsI nwnku khY ivcwrw ]2] (1290-9, mlwr, mÚ 1)
    aytay ras chhod hovai sani-aasee naanak kahai vichaaraa. ||2||
    Forsaking these delicacies, one becomes a true Sannyaasee, a detached hermit. Nanak reflects and speaks. ||2
     
  6. Pukandi Baba

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Would you adam n eve it!

    Why is it that EVERY meat eater mentions this particular shabad! We can dress it up how ever we want but the fact remains that we should not consume meat. Akal takhat along with SPGC go by 'pleasing the people' rather than following Gurmat!

    BTW that Shabad was uttered by Gurji for the benefit of the Pandits who at that time (and to this day) with their 'holy than thou' attitudes because they didn't eat meat!

    P.S Sikh history also consists of sikhs in times of battle, had to resort to cannibalism (eating their own flesh) When do we bring that into practice?

    Anyway the sikh panth has a million and one things far more relevant to worry about i.e the the budhe who don't give up the seats to allow the young of today to take control. They think they will be sitting on the 'kursi' 50 years to come kamle! :}--}:
     
  7. Pukandi Baba

    Pukandi Baba
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Here we are...

    Here are a few sloks which outrightly prohibits meat comsumption.
    Kabeer jeea ju maraih jor kar, kaihte hai jo halaal
    daftar daee jab kaaDh hai, hoigaa koan havaal.//199// (1375.G.G.S.)
    Sayeth Kabir, sayeth thou by "forcefully" killing living beings, Halaal.
    When in God's house, your accounts be taken, what will then there happen to you!
    Kabeer jor keeaa su julam hai, lay-e jabaab khudaae
    daftar lekhaa neeksai, maar muhai muh khaae.//200// (1375)
    Sayeth Kabir, using force is unlawful, God shall question this.
    when your accounts will be opened, you shall reap on your face a God's wrath.
    Bed Kateb kahaih mat jhootey, jhootaa jo naa bichaarai,
    jo sabh mai ek khudaae kahait ho, tio kio murgee marai?! (1350)
    Do not say that the vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect.
    If in all is one God, then why does one kill the hen!
    Kabeer bhang mashalee suraapaan, jo jo pranee khaan-he
    teerath barat neym kee-ey, te sabh rasaatal jaan-he (1377)
    suraapaan=alcohol rasaatal=below hell, underground.
    Those people who drink bhang, eat fish, drink alcohol,
    and do ritual bathing, keep fast, all shall be burried underground.
    Kabeer khoob khaanaa kheecharee, jaa mai amrit loon,
    heyraa rotee kaarney, galaa kataavai kaon! (1378)
    heyraa=meat by hunting Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating, kichree=dals where nectar-sweet is the salt.
    You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut?!
     
  8. Pukandi Baba

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Just in case your one of those people who claim 'But Bhagat Kabir isn't a Guru' here we have a shabad by Guru Arjan Dev Ji


    Guru Arjan Dev Ji says, Pg 201

    Bed PaRai mukh meeTee BaNee, Jeean kuhat na sangai praaNee.
    sangai=ashamed kuhat-kill praaNee-humans Jeean-living beings After reading the entire shabad, this line depicts, that the so called learned, saintly people read the sweet hymns of the Veds using their mouths, however they do not hesitate(feel ashamed) to kill animals.
     
  9. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    "BTW that Shabad was uttered by Gurji for the benefit of the Pandits who at that time (and to this day) with their 'holy than thou' attitudes because they didn't eat meat!"

    so there are different shabads in guru granth sahib for pandits,muslims.etc
    please tell me which shabad is for sikhs

    there is only shabad in shabad in guru granth sahib which deals with the
    meat issue and that is "maas maas kar murakh jhagrey" all the other are just lines from the shabad.by quoting lines from the shabad we cannot understand the the full meaning of
    the shabad. here are the lines of baba farid ji

    ijnw KwDI copVI Gxy shingy duK ]28] (1379-7, slok, syK PrId jI)
    jinaa khaaDhee choprhee ghanay sehnigay dukh. ||28||
    Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||

    ruKI suKI Kwie kY TMFw pwxI pIau ] (1379-8, slok, syK PrId jI)
    rukhee sukhee khaa-ay kai thandhaa paanee pee-o.
    Eat dry bread, and drink cold water.

    so does it means that eating buttered bread is wrong in sikhism

    if you really want to understand gurbani read a proper translation.
    i myself has read the translation of shabads of kabeer ji of pro sahib singh which is available online.shabads of kabeer ji are against sacrifices
    which are given to please the godand not against meat eating pro sahib singh mentioned it in his translation.

    so please show me a shabad which says that meat eating is wrong
     
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  10. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    here is the full shabad

    auVI mhlw 5 ] (201-2)
    ga-orhee mehlaa 5.
    Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

    DoqI Koil ivCwey hyiT ] (201-2, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    Dhotee khol vichhaa-ay hayth.
    He opens his loin-cloth, and spreads it out beneath him.

    grDp vWgU lwhy pyit ]1] (201-3, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    garDhap vaaNgoo laahay payt. ||1||
    Like a donkey, he gulps down all that comes his way. ||1||

    ibnu krqUqI mukiq n pweIAY ] (201-3, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    bin kartootee mukat na paa-ee-ai.
    Without good deeds, liberation is not obtained.

    mukiq pdwrQu nwmu iDAweIAY ]1] rhwau ] (201-3, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    mukat padaarath naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai. ||1|| rahaa-o.
    The wealth of liberation is only obtained by meditating on the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

    pUjw iqlk krq iesnwnW ] (201-4, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    poojaa tilak karat isnaanaaN.
    He performs worship ceremonies, applies the ceremonial tilak mark to his forehead, and takes his ritual cleansing baths;

    CurI kwiF lyvY hiQ dwnw ]2] (201-4, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    chhuree kaadh layvai hath daanaa. ||2||
    he pulls out his knife, and demands donations. ||2||

    bydu pVY muiK mITI bwxI ] (201-4, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    bayd parhai mukh meethee banee.
    With his mouth, he recites the Vedas in sweet musical measures,

    jIAW kuhq n sMgY prwxI ]3] (201-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    jee-aaN kuhat na sangai paraanee. ||3||
    and yet he does not hesitate to take the lives of others. ||3||

    khu nwnk ijsu ikrpw DwrY ] (201-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    kaho naanak jis kirpaa Dhaarai.
    Says Nanak, when God showers His Mercy,

    ihrdw suDu bRhmu bIcwrY ]4]107] (201-5, gauVI, mÚ 5)
    hirdaa suDh barahm beechaarai. ||4||107||
    even his heart becomes pure, and he contemplates God. ||4||107||

    now please tell me where it is dealing with the issue of meat eating.i just read the translation of the shabad

    http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/0201.html

    this shabad is about corruption of the brahmins
    it is not even dealing with the issue sacrfice
     
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  11. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    All this "Meat Issue" thingy is a Haooa created by the NEW PANDITS in Sikhi Garb...those Holier than Thou types of "amrtidharees"..who BEHAVE EXACTLY like the Pandits and Mullahs mentioend in Gurbani.

    FACT NO. 1..when in SRI RAAG GURU NANAK JI..our Founder begins to MENTION things to AVOID.... Guur Ji LISTS down NINE things....and "meat" is LAST in Guru Ji's LIST. These NINE Pleasures listed are UNDUE....LOVE of GOLD, Silver, Beautiful Women, Silken Clothes, Horses and Elepjhants to ride etc etc. The EMPHASIS is on "UNDUE" or EXCESSIVE...and the meat eating is mentioend LAST and that also IF UNDUE and EXCESSIVE emphsiis is put on it so that its consumpion causes ones bodfy and mann to suffer.

    OF ALL the Sants Babas Pakhandis and kathawachaks i have heard lamenting about MEAT...not one dares say anythign about Gold silver, women and such... ???Wonder why ??

    FACT No. 2... When the SIDDHS in Sidh Gost question Guru Ji on various Subjects..GURU JI ANSWERS all questions. But when the Siddhs and Yogis declare that they EAT Vegetables, roots and nuts ONLY...GURU JI POINTEDLY IGNORES that question/declaration as IF He never even HEARD IT. IF "meat" is That big an ISSUE surely This was a Perfect opportunity to GURU JI to set things at REST and answer this Yogis question... ever wonder WHY GURU JI answered ALL questions EXCEPT this meat one ??

    FACT No. 3 is the Complete Shabad Maas Maas katr MOORAKH Jhaggrrey...could anythingelse be clearer ??

    FACT no. 4. Kabir';s shabads are addrssed to MUSLIMS... and is about SACRIFICE of the Halal Haj festival durign which the Muslim World Slaughters innocent chickens goats cows etc for SACRIFICE/HALLAL. Kabir asks if Killing a chicken for sacrifice is Hallal ?? who is going to answer it ?? Nothinfg about slaughtering a chicken for FOOD .

    FACT No. 5.... DIET is NEVER a big thing in GURMATT. Eat whatever fits your HEALTH - physical and mental..IF too much "chickens" hurts your health..so can a load of Carrots...USE your own God given BRAIN. too much rice leads to SCURVY !! and too much carrots can lead to beta carotene posioning....the will you BLAME Kabir for saying Khoob Khanna kheechrree ??

    Jarnail Singh gyani
     
  12. Pukandi Baba

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    I myself am a carnivore, but i don't go around claiming you can 'eat meat' just to make myself feel better!

    I know it's wrong but i'm saying Akal Purakh does not permit it! How can any religious preson condone the killing of another living thing (yes i'm aware even vegetables are living etc etc, but think logical)

    Shabad uttered by Bhagat Farid Ji refers to 'those that live a cushy life' as in eat the best foods wear the best clothes and then prance about pretending to be 'where all that'

    Many translations are available but it's down to each indivdual to how one perceives it, Correct?

    Anyway i think the Line 'Maas maas kar murakh jaagre' speaks volumes, there will always be dispute over this!
     
  13. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    "I know it's wrong but i'm saying Akal Purakh does not permit it! How can any religious preson condone the killing of another living thing (yes i'm aware even vegetables are living etc etc, but think logical)"

    if god does not permit killing of another living being then why god created
    food chain
     
  14. Pukandi Baba

    Pukandi Baba
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Are you an animal? If you want to argue about this we'll be here forever and a day.

    A lion catches it's prey and consumes it RAW, Or does it get out the 'Patila' and make 'turkha' does it, please enlighten me?? :whisling:

    Now how many rabbits, cows chcikens, have you seen eating MEAT? They are created to be herbivores! (you familiar with this term, well are you?)

    Now if your going to compare yourself to a 'Lion' well i tell you what, you go and catch a deer, or whatever you fancy and eat it RAW[B/]

    Gurbani states a fact, humans do not need flesh to exist!!!
     
  15. Sher_Singh

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    I feel this topic has been discussed many times to no avail.....
    re-focusing all this thought onto issues of need would be of more use

    Sri Akaal Sahai
     
  16. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food



    99% vegetarians drink milk and consider it sacred.is milk created for humans? do they directly drink it from teets of cows? if you are ready to drink it from cow then i am also ready to eat an animal raw.now you are
    going to say that a cow is not killed for its milk.but many calves does.many cruelities are done on animals for producing milk they are injected with hormones to produce milk still humans drink milk and consider it sacred a clear case of hypocracy.if god does not like humans to kill animals for food does he like it?we humans steal milk from the calves

    the fact is we humans are using animals for our
    benefits whether it is meat,milk,or ploughing our fields
    wool skins .i don't understand when people say that meat is wrong but castrating male calves and forcing
    them to plough our fields or pull load is not wrong.the human civilisation existed on using animals for our benefits and doing cruelities on them.

    if meat is wrong then drinking milk,honey ,using leather,wool ,silk ,using animals to pull or carry load is also wrong
     
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  17. S|kH

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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    As for the Bhagat Kabir shabad, where the last line states something along the lines of If an animal can be killed, then why should you not have your head cut, I have this to say :


    There is a time to live and a time to die. That is the way of nature. If you think about it, prolonged suffering is rare in nature. Our meat industry profits from the prolonged suffering of animals, people and the Earth, but that is not the only way. When a cow lives the life a cow ought to live, when its life and death are consistent with a beautiful world, then for me there is no ethical dilemma in killing that cow for food. Of course there is pain and fear when the cow is taken to the slaughter (and when the robin pulls up the worm, and when the wolves down the caribou, and when the hand uproots the weed), and that makes me sad. There is much to be sad about in life, but underneath the sadness is a joy that is dependent not on avoiding pain and maximizing pleasure, but on living rightly and well.


    It would indeed be hypocritical of me to apply this to a cow and not to myself. To live with integrity as a killer of animals and plants, it is necessary for me in my own life to live rightly and well, even and especially when such decisions seem to jeopardize my comfort, security, and rational self-interest, even if, someday, to live rightly is to risk death. Not just for animals, but for me too, there is a time to live and a time to die. I'm saying: What is good enough for any living creature is good enough for me. Eating meat need not be an act of arrogant species-ism, but consistent with a humble submission to the tides of life and death.


    Death != bad.
     
  18. Pukandi Baba

    Pukandi Baba
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Of course, i whole heartedly agree. I'm not here to argue just give my opinion on the matter just like you.

    Although i do not agree that the cow is 'holy' that is Hindu thought and i have no interest in this whatsoever.

    I've seen a few Amritdhari sikhs who wear leather, and furnish there house with leather furniture, this is wrong.

    Do as you please, as long as it causes no harm to others that's my philosophy!!
     
  19. 21khalsa13

    21khalsa13
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food


    guru nanak dev jee also said ahimsa is only a limb in the body of dharma - not the body itself. hence guru gobind singh jee lifted the sword once ALL!! others means have been exhausted.
    we could follow this lead.
     
  20. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Re: Sikh and No-Vegiterian Food

    Gurfateh

    Das has read the Sabad of Sant Kabeer Sahib JI,

    It talks that if person does ritualism apparntly holy and lives luxurious life full of comferts of sensual pleausres,it all perhaps whole so called holy and acts with life goes to drain ie person is reborn.

    If being a Sikh we still live in concept of sin and good deeds then we are yet to be a Sikh.

    All acts of us are in control of Akal.Akal is as much as in meat as in veg(Kya Maas Kya Saak) as we read in Var in Malar.

    Again as per tradition of old Sampradyas meat along with many other veg itmes are not allowed as they do not let us do Nam Abhyas correcly specaily if we are not working hard.

    das can direct you to sikhmarg.com where book by Respected S. Gurbax Singh Ji Kala Afghana is online.

    But das feels sorry when he makes fun of Mahapurushs of DDT or AKJ.

    Say if we take the litral menaing of going to Rasatal or in ground or pit or neither by eating meat(there it is writtan fish with cannbis or alachohal) then if das does not eat it either after death ashes of das will go in soil.

    Soil may have reamins of animals which are later acting as manure and making vegtraian food for us.We can not run away from the ways of Akal as Jains want to do.

    uinlike defying the existance of God and trying to do good ourselves as Jains do we need to surrender ourselves to Akal.
     

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