Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Sidh Gosht - Pauri 1 - Guru Granth Sahib

Discussion in 'Sidh Gosht' started by Gyani Jarnail Singh, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI fateh.

    (From SGGS Page 938 line 5 to page 946 line 19).

    rwmklI mhlw 1 isD gosit
    raamkalee mehlaa 1 siDh gosat
    Raamkalee, First Mehl, Sidh Gosht ~ Conversations With The Siddhas:
    <> siqgur pRswid ]
    ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
    One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
    isD sBw kir Awsix bYTy sMq sBw jYkwro ]
    siDh sabhaa kar aasan baithay sant sabhaa jaikaaro.
    The Siddhas formed an assembly; sitting in their Yogic postures, they shouted, "Salute this gathering of Saints."
    iqsu AwgY rhrwis hmwrI swcw Apr Apwro ]
    tis aagai rahraas hamaaree saachaa apar apaaro.
    I offer my salutation to the One who is true, infinite and incomparably beautiful.
    msqku kwit DrI iqsu AwgY qnu mnu AwgY dyau ]
    mastak kaat Dharee tis aagai tan man aagai day-o.
    I cut off my head, and offer it to Him; I dedicate my body and mind to Him.
    nwnk sMqu imlY scu pweIAY shj Bwie jsu lyau ]1]
    naanak sant milai sach paa-ee-ai sahj bhaa-ay jas lay-o. ||1||
    O Nanak, meeting with the THE "SAINT", Truth is obtained, and one is spontaneously blessed with distinction. ||1||

    The FIRST FOUR panktees (lines) of this Gurbani let us know the TRUE meaning of SIDH-SAADH-SANTS and "SANT".

    In the Opening line, the Sidhs, the Sadhs, the Yogis, etc are ALL sitting down in a SABHA (gathering)...and it is clear that these are ALl HUMANS. This gathering is a gathering of "SAINTS". The word Saint in Gurbani is not underlined..and is PLURAL.... a GATHERING..the SAADH SANGAT. (SANT) without Aunkarr .

    Then this gathering asks Guru Ji to Tell them about HIS GURU..

    In the next three lines GUru ji describes HIS TRUE GURU, the TRUE SANT..AKAL PURAKH. In this case the word SANT is with an aunkarr and is SINGULAR ( we can say SANT with a CAPITAL to show PROPER NOUN as per Gurbani grammar..

    This SAME "SANT" resides in the HARMANDAR ( our human body) which He ahs constructed for His OWN RESIDENCE ( Har - SANT and Mandar- residence. Read Guru Amardass Ji's Gurbani and it is mentioned many times what the real Harmandar is. This same SAADH is also inside us. Once we have MET ( saadh Bhettna)..this SAADh-SANT-GURU inside us..we have attained Jeewan muktee.

    Then the SIDHS mention to GURU JI that they retreat to the Jungles. and mountain caves, survive by eating ONLY ROOTS and FRUITS, VEGETABLES ( meaning they AVOID MEAT and thus avoid killing for food )..BUT wonder of wonders GURU JI JUST IGNORES this question of "DIET" alltogether. This is the only "question" Guru Ji doesnt bother to answer. Its Obvious that such "diets" have no significance in GURMATT that guru Ji was preaching. IF MEAT-VEGE DEBATE that is raging today in Sikhe ( mostly supported by the SANTS,SAADHS and DERAWALLHAS etc and those Anti-SGPC/Akal Takhat maryada) Was Really THAT VITAL..GURU JI would Have taken the trouble to ANSWER this question ....we can see the irony here...TODAY Sikhe is divided between the proponents of MEAT eating is allowed...and those who Vehemently DENY this and say Meat eating is Totally banned. Guru nanak ji TOTALLY IGNORES this question Posed by the Yogis/sidhs..and Guru Ji further wrote another excellent shabad on this Maas maas kar MOORAKH JHAGGRREH...Only FOOLS argue about MEAT !!..but we still continue to do so.

    Jarnail Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #1 Gyani Jarnail Singh, Aug 5, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2005
  2. Loading...


  3. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Satsriakal to all and Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji!
    Thanks for starting the great Satsang.

    You referred msqku kwit DrI iqsu AwgY qnu mnu AwgY dyau ]
    mastak kaat Dharee tis aagai tan man aagai day-o.
    I cut off my head, and offer it to Him; I dedicate my body and mind to Him.

    I request to please elaborate the above Guru's Vaak.

    How can a person offer his body and mind after he has cut off his head?

    I will be grateful.


    Balbir Singh
     
  4. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru JI KI fateh.

    Veer balbir Singh Jio,

    imho it is not a question of...."offering his body and mind..AFTER the head has been cut off...

    Guru Ji is simply declaring that..OH My parmeshar, I Offer YOU my HEAD, MY BODY, MY MIND... ALL I have is YOURS...nothing is mine.

    This is the Central Theme of every Sikh's Maksad...of Going to the GURDWARA and OFFERING his/Her HEAD..MATHA TEKNNA.

    This "act" of matha teknna means that OH My GURU JI, Hre I am Offering MY HEAD ( meaning MY MIND) MY MATT...at your Lotus Feet and Will You PLEASE give me YOUR MATT...GURMATT in return.... ( its a different matter that most sikhs ahve made thsi great act of sacrifice a mere "action..a ritual..." and thats why we have Sikhs "mattah tekking" at ten or twenty different places in the Gurdwara..first at the Nishan Sahib, then at the Bottom of the Steps, then at the Jorra Ghar, then at the Dehleez of darbar sahib, then before the Praksh Guur Ji, then at the door of the "Sachkhand room" where the Guru sroops are Sukhasan...etc etc. We Have ONLY ONE HEAD/ONE MATT...and can ONLY give it away ONCE..but in actual fact we dont do it even once because we go back with our own head/mind/matt and leave the Gurmatt behind in the Gurudwara. Guru ji uses the word "CUT"..as it should be..a "cut" head is not so easy to REJOIN ?? thats how we should treat Matha Tekking..."CUT" our head and offer it to Guru Ji !! We need not do it Physically but should do it Mentally !! which we dont.

    What GURU JI sri Nanak ji Sahib mentioned here in His First jamma...GURU ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji in his Tenth jamma showed in PRACTISE at vasakhi 1699 when He DEMANDED and RECEIVED FIVE PHYSICAL HEADS. IF need be the SIKH can "physically CUT off " his head for HIS GURU.

    We also say quite as a matter of fact.... Tan mann naal sewa....meaning our Tann and Mann belong to the GURU.

    Thank You.

    Love towards all

    Jarnail Singh
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. kds1980

    kds1980 India
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    2,738
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    waheguru ji ka khalsa
    waheguru ji ki fateh

    gyani jee this is true when i first visited these sites i too was shocked.meat eating was never a issue in sikhism.many amritdharees which are abiding by the akal takhat maryada eat meat. but these people
    continously humilate and say that the person who eat meat is not a sikh
    this is clear insult to the sikhs whichi are abiding by the akal takhat maryada.
    bhul chuk maaf
     
    #4 kds1980, Aug 9, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2005
  6. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!
    This is what I understand from the first Pauree of Sidh Goshti.

    rwmklI mhlw 1 isD gosit
    raamkalee mehlaa 1 siDh gosati
    Raamkalee, First Mehl, Sidh Goshti ~ Conversations With The Siddhas:

    <> siqgur pRswid ]
    ik-oNkaar satgur prasaad.
    One ONkaar. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

    isD sBw kir Awsix bYTy sMq sBw jYkwro ]
    siDh sabhaa kar aasan baithay sant sabhaa jaikaaro.
    The assembly of Siddhas sat in postures. The assembly of Saints spoke the sound of victory.

    iqsu AwgY rhrwis hmwrI swcw Apr Apwro ]
    tis aagai rahraas hamaaree saachaa apar apaaro.
    My wealth to exist belongs to HIM. HE is true, without opponent and infinite.

    msqku kwit DrI iqsu AwgY qnu mnu AwgY dyau ]
    mastak kaat Dharee tis aagai tan man aagai day-o.
    He cuts off the head (destroys ego) or gives again body and mind again.

    nwnk sMqu imlY scu pweIAY shj Bwie jsu lyau ]1]
    naanak sant milai sach paa-ee-ai sahj bhaa-ay jas lay-o. ||1||
    Nanak! Truth is received by meeting the Saint. Brother! Get eminence spontaneously. ||1||

    Satsriakal.


    Balbir Singh
     
  7. drkhalsa

    drkhalsa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    54
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Dear Balbir ji

    wel i think this the only way we could do it i mean after cutting our head only we will be able to offer our mind and body

    by head actualli i mean our own manmatt and this will not allow us to offer our body and mind so we have to get rid of it before anything
    this is what my understanding has been about it


    Jatinder Singh
     
  8. Archived_member2

    Archived_member2
    Expand Collapse
    Archived

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    3
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Satsriakal to all and Jatinder Singh Ji!

    You wrote "by head actualli i mean our own manmatt and this will not allow us to offer our body and mind so we have to get rid of it before anything"

    Please let the world know if you come across a person who could get rid of his mastak as per his will.

    Manmatt means matt (opinion) of the mind. The word 'manmat' comes once in SGGS Ji in the context that it is false.
    Something which is false is not existing. This is the reason a person is not able to sacrifice it even.

    The word 'mastak' occurs many times in Gurbani. It indicates destiny mostly.

    A person gets birth to live his destiny or fate without any choice. He may be freed from this Mastak with God's Will alone.

    Guru's Vaak says 'Mastak kaat dharee tis . . ."
    The word 'tis' occurs in the previous Guru's Vaak too. There it is clearly used for God.
    In both of these Vaaks 'tis' indicates God.

    With true Simran destiny or fate (mastak) of a person becomes different. One realizes that the old fate, mastak experienced by ego, is gone, And the new fate, experienced as God's Will, is realized.
    With the further development by Simran it becomes clear that even the body and mind of a person do not belong to him.

    Suppose One does not come to know Simran. His destiny or fate (mastak) remains the same he is born with to live. He gets further (aagai) body and mind to remain in the world of Maya.

    Those who feel they can offer their mastak, body and mind may please go for it. What are they waiting for since first birth?

    Love.


    Balbir Singh
     
  9. jagmeet

    jagmeet
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    4
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Gyani ji,let us know more about the grammatical rules of Gurbani--like the one you mentioned about the aunkarr above.Is there any website that explains all the grammatical rules of Gurbani?

    Regards,
    Jagmeet
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Jagmeet Ji,
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.

    This is a HUGE subject...GURBANI is a UNIQUE "language" all by itself.
    So far all the Grammar books avialbale are in PUNJABI only. The main and most authentic one is Gurbani Viakaran by Prof sahib Singh Ji. Many other academics and scholars have also written on this including Bhai Sahib bhai Randheer Singh Ji, Bhai Joginder Singh ji Talwarra Ji. Harbans Singh Translation of Guru granth ji is also based on this Grammar principles.
    If you go to www.gurugranthdarpan.com you will have EACH WORD fully explained accordign to Gurbani grammar. This is the Online Site of Prof sahib Singh Ji on Guru Gartnh ji and Prof Ji is the Pioneer in this Grammar. Unfortunately the site is in PUN JABI only.

    Jarnail Singh
     
  11. jagmeet

    jagmeet
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    4
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Gyani Ji,

    Sat Sri Akal.I am faced with a difficulty when someone says 'Waheguru ji ka Khalsa,Waheguru ji ki Fateh' to me.I have not taken Amrit,so am I entitled to respond back with 'Waheguru ji ka Khalsa,Waheguru ji ki Fateh' ?--because then I am calling myself 'Waheguru ji ka Khalsa' which is not true.Hope you can resolve my difficulty.

    I've just had a look at the website you mentioned.It would be better if someone could dedicate a few web-pages to explaining gurbani vyaakaran/grammar both in Punjabi and English for ready reference.Anyway,hope to pick up some grammar as you go on explaining more pauris of Sidh Goshth.

    Regards and bhul chuk maaf,
    Jagmeet
     
  12. GushK

    GushK
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    sorry for butting in but I don't really see it as a problem.
    It's a greeting and a statement saying :

    "The Khalsa belongs to Waheguru"
    "Victory belongs to Waheguru"

    you're not necessarily referring to yourself, just that the Khalsa belong to Waheguru...

    Regards
    Gursharan Singh
     
  13. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Gursharan Singh's answer covers all the bases. This Bola - Greeting is for ALL and conveys that ALL is Waheguru's Posession. The Khalsa is of waheguru and the Victory is also OF Waheguru.

    GO ahead and reply to this Gurfateh with VIGOUR. We need to make this our Normal greeting. "Sat sri Akal" is ok only to the extent if you understand that it is only HALF a greeting...IT is actually a KHALSA WAR CRY JAIKARA....and the Complete verse is JO Boleh SO NIHAAL..SAT SRI AKAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. You will notice that the War Cry goes UP in Volume and Pitch...and that is why it strikes TERROR in the hearts of the enemy. Whenever the enmey hears this war cry...they rather skirt around and take a different route !!!

    jarnail Singh.
     
  14. jagmeet

    jagmeet
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    4
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh !

    Thanks for the replies.Coming back to Gurbani grammar,would anyone take up the job of explaining its central features in a few pages either here on some website?

    Regards,
    Jagmeet
     
    #13 jagmeet, Aug 17, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2005
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    OK ji. I will try my best. It is like trying to put the "ocean" in a tea-cup.

    Jarnail singh
     
  16. waheguru123

    waheguru123
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Sidh Ghost - Pauri 1 - Guru Granth Sahib

    i have not got the punjabi font installed on my pc so could someone plz send me the punjabi font downloading link by private message plz. thankyou
     
  17. ajmer123

    ajmer123
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: Sidh Ghost - First Pauri - My Understanding

    The philosophy of Sat Guru Nanak is very deep and he is already Realization of Self or is One with the Great Self. Here he just telling Sidhs he will give everything to that Realized Self , which the Sat Guru Nanak is a part himself in response to Sidhs asking him to salute them at the start of discussion. You have to understand here the Lord to which he is addressing and he himself are not different, but he do not want you to worship him in his materialistic physical form.

    ajmersingh

     
  18. GBAINS

    GBAINS
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    3
    Dear Jagmeet

    I can try to explain according to Gurbani Grammer
    What are the Questions

    Regards

    Gurjeet
     
  19. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,190
    BTW...whats happened to Balbir JI ? I saw this Post..and wondered.....Anyone knows ?? Or has he found his own "guru" and gone into the Kandra..cave with him...? His posts always intrigued me....
     
  20. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Or has he found his own "guru" and gone into the Kandra..cave with him...?

    Gyani ji

    It was my impression that the forum member was a guru of some kind. Don't know about the cave. I think he goes to a regular Gurdwara.
     
  21. khalsa1469

    khalsa1469
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    27
    Dear Jarnail Singh ji,

    Vahgur ji ka Khalsa, Vahgur ji ki Fateh!

    I shall respond with my interpretation of Siddh Gosht (hopefully soon). Meanwhile, I thank you for discussing the critical need for a grounding in Gurbani grammar. It is important for seekers of Gurmat.

    There is something in your post that caught my eye and I wish to bring it to your attention, considering you have discussed grammatical rules.

    You had correctly pointed to the rule concerning the Aunkarh. However, if you apply that rule to the line to which you have referred, then it will change the focus of your argument.

    Invariably, whenever people refer to this Shabad they claim that Guru Sahib is saying only fools argue about meat. However, this particular line in the Shabad talks specifically about the "learned" Pandit who judges others (as sinners) because of what they eat. Here, the khakha in Murakh has an aunkarh. The Shabad refers to those particular Murakhs who do not understand that we (humans) are all meat, we come from it, we marry it, we produce it and are sustained by it, and judge others for what they eat. This complete Shabad & Paurhi, more than any other, addressed the "meat issue". If only people had the courage to discuss it.

    Guru Sahib explains that we are all meat and that an ignorant fool does not eat Bhakh - that which is fit to eat - food, including so-called meat, yet will eat Abhakh - that which is not fit for consumption - Paraya Haq, that which belongs to others. Guru Nanak says that those who cannot make this distinction and judge others are guided by a blind zeal (Andh Guru).

    If we sit in judgment of others because of what they eat, or think ourselves superior because of what we eat, then we are the Murakh referred to by Guru Nanak.

    The Paurhi's essence refers to the fact that people waste their time (life) over frivolous arguments while wallowing in hypocrisy. It also shows that the alternative is to seek guidance from the Universal Enlightener (Wisdom).

    Akal Sahai!

    Gaurav Singh
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page