Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Should a Turban be called "Headwear"?

Discussion in 'Opinion Polls' started by spnadmin, Jun 18, 2010.

?

Should a turban be called "headwear?"

  1. No. A turban is an essential part of Sikh identity.

    60.9%
  2. No. Moreover, a turban should be called "dastar," not "turban."

    30.4%
  3. No. Calling a turban "headwear" is a veiled attempt to insult Sikhs

    30.4%
  4. Some turbans are fashion statements. Therefore it would not matter.

    4.3%
  5. There are many ethnic styles of turbans. Some of them are just that, headwear.

    8.7%
  6. Of course. Why the fuss and worry over words? A turban is worn on the head.

    13.0%
  7. No opinion.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
    Expand Collapse
    1947-2014 (Archived)
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    14,551
    Likes Received:
    19,200
    Should a turban be called “headwear”?

    Late last year, the Manurewa Cosmopolitan Club barred a turban-wearing community leader - Karnail Singh - under a policy which bans entry to anyone wearing headwear, even for religious reasons.

    The matter went to the Human Rights Commission in January and it was agreed that, depending on the outcome of a meeting last weekend, the issue may return to the commission. Well, that meeting decided no relaxing of the rules for anybody.

    As you might imagine, the Sikh community is determined to fight this through the Human Rights Review Tribunal. It's the second time in two years the club's had to defend itself: previously it had banned a Muslim international student in a headscarf.

    Brian Rudman (NZ Herald) has taken up the cudgel, writing: 'Intolerant social club stuck in racist past'. He cites the on-going global battle over the burqa as relevant to this situation, and also uses various incidents of racism from the 1920s-50s: these illustrations are a rather crude attempt to muddy the waters and slur the Club's intentions.

    But this is not racism. The club did not say: you can't enter... because you are a Sikh. It said: you can't enter... wearing headwear. The no-hats rule came from a past era, when good manners decreed one did not wear one's fedora inside (and yes, from the same era as quoted above).

    If the members vote for the rule to remain, who are we to complain? It is after all a PRIVATE club, and I have a sneaky suspicion that the law has an exemption for private clubs. This may yet become an interesting test case though...
     
    • Like Like x 4
    #1 spnadmin, Jun 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2010
  2. Loading...


  3. Seeker9

    Seeker9 United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    Cleverness is not wisdom
    SPNer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    649
    Likes Received:
    973
    I guess, as you have captured in your poll choices, it's a question of what it is physically and what it represents. For the Sikhs who wear Turbans, clearly it is part of their identity and that is all that matters. Personally, the only time I wore one was when I got married, but most of the time I find them aesthetically pleasing!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. findingmyway

    findingmyway
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Contributor Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    3,767
    Anyone who chooses not to wear a turban, I respect that decision. However, they must understand the significance of a turban. It is an insult to call it a hat and that also has significant legal implications. By degrading the turban to the level of a hat, we cannot legally defend it as an essential article of attire. It also implies a superficial, superfluous or decorative function when it is an essential part of the identity for people keeping kes as well as having the practical function of protecting the kes. Asking someone to remove a turban in public is like asking them to strip down to their boxers (or beyond)-you just don't do it. The turban of a kesadhari Sikh should always be treated with respect and that includes using its proper name. A kara should also not be called jewellery as it is not worn for decoration.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. BazGrewal

    BazGrewal
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    36
    My opinion on this is that calling a dastaar a hat is not acceptable at all, but headwear is also kind of rude. Even uf somebody does not know what it is I appreciate them calling it a religious headdress rather than a hat.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Kanwaljit Singh

    Kanwaljit Singh India
    Expand Collapse
    Apache Spark, Scala developer
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    People would even call Kara a bangle or hand accessory. That way we would lose the essence stored in the name.
     
  7. bscheema

    bscheema
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    134
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse

    Moderator

    Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,118
    Likes Received:
    7,945
    Can't see a strawberry one
     
  9. BaljinderS

    BaljinderS
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    251
    Those who know a bit about Sikhs will understand the significance of the turban.

    Sikhs should working on presenting themselves in the best light possible (which do already with WaheGuru's kirpa) where ever they are. This is the only way we can really win support from other people.

    Remember Sikhs are akal purkh kee fauj but people will only see if we actually believe in it ourselves.
     
  10. Kamala

    Kamala
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    145
    Were a chunni with a suit or something. Turbans arent neccisary for Sikh women but they just do it because they want to, you only have to cover your head. If you don't like the rules, don't go.
     
  11. Sunjeet Singh

    Sunjeet Singh
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    My opinion is that, although it can be considered "headwear", we can't call it that because its supposed to be treated as our crown given by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Maharaj ji, and I'm pretty sure he wanted us to refer to it with more respect...rrrriiiighhhtt? lol
     
  12. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    What does Queen Elizabeth wear on her head during special ocassions ? Does it change if we call it Taaj and the British call it Crown ?? Is the British Queen any LESS ? or MORE ? The Shah Of Iran ruled Iran for over 2000 Years..and he used to sit on the Peacock Throne...the Mor Kursee ??
    Same goes for LONG HAIR..we call it KESH...but the words are not exchangeable..but it doesnt matter really what ist called..its the SPIRIT behind it..Kacherra ...shorts..drawers..whatever...kirpan..dagger..short knife..whatever..karra..bangle..steel bangle..komb..kangha...its NOT just a "comb"...its a Kangha. depends on who is saying what ...
     
  13. Ruqa

    Ruqa
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    28
    Here's my two cents. I think the turban/dastar looks really good on both men and women and it should not be confused or associated with a hat or cap or any other casual headwear that a person chooses to wear because it has religious significance, I think someone used the words before, 'part of a Sikh's religious identity'. I think that clubs etc should make exceptions in these circumstances. What that club did seems wrong to me and it agitates me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188

    ha Ha Kamala Ji..your quote reminded me about your insistence that the SGGS contains proof of the existence of Hindu Idols and a Sikh must thus..just DO IT (believe they exist )..

    Here also you are wrong...KESH and DASTAAR are MANDATORY to a SIKH. Period. There is no DISCRIMINATION between Male and Female. What a Male SIKH gets in Khandey Dee Pahul ceremony..a Female also gets. NO IFs and NO BUTs..no less and no more..all EQUALLY EQUAL.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Luckysingh

    Luckysingh United States
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,634
    Likes Received:
    2,749
    When people cannot even understand the significance that Gyanji points out above about it being universal and not just for men, then we are just fools trying to define it as headwear or not.

    Strictly speaking, headwear is a term used for accesories that can be worn on the head.
    In western fashion terms it is similar to footwear and handwear like gloves. These things can be worn and taken off as needed or as required. Headwear can mean anything from headbands, sweatbands, hats and caps.
    In all honesty if someone doesn't know what a turban is the and calls it headwear, then there is nothing to get offended about. - I can't see what the problem is.

    The problem is in the issue in the 1st post where it legally gets classed as headwear in that article.
    However, there are places everywhere like restaurants, bars, goverment buildings, certain banks that do NOT allow headwear- this is normally baseball caps (most common headwear) and hats- the reasons for these are normally dress codes and in the case of banks-security...ie.. someone is difficult to identify on CCTV if they are wearing a baseball cap, therefore for interests of security they don't allow it.
    BUT- none of these places EVER has an issue with turbans, they mostly see the turban as part of the persons identity- so what is the security risk ?-NONE at ALL.
    The case Highlighted in the 1st post, I think is an isolated incident in general as nowadays there is a greater deal of awareness.

    Most people that know that the turban has some sort of significance don't label it as headwear.
    So, really it depends who is actually calling it headwear or turban.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    Lucky Ji..
    Thats precisely WHY we LOST the Battle for dastaar in FRANCE. There were self appointed "Special Envoy of Akal takhat" etc etc on the side of the SIKHS who fought to establish the Dastaar as Cultural..social..historical...etc..ALL of which arguments fall flat because IF its simply Cultural./Social/Historically worn/Traditional.why cant you take it off for a moment to take a passport photo..or for airport security ??
    SIKHS didnt KNOW the significance of the Dastaar and WHY its removal in PUBLIC....even for a SECOND is not acceptable..

    Nearly six decades ago, my dad had a SGGS accompanying our family by ship from madras ...from Amritsar we had the Bir packed in a iron TRUNK which we always kept on the Top sleeper of the Train for the 4 day 3 night journey. When we landed at Penang port, the customs wanted to open and see the "book" just flick through the pages etc. My dad said..It looks like a book, its made of paper, etc etc BUT ITS NOT a BOOK which can be opened anywhere, or have its pages flicked back and forth. Have you ever seen a "book" carried on a person' s head, with an attnendat waving a chaur and three others accompanying a s Guards ?? We were allowed to pass without customs check on the SGGS Bir which we still have today.

    Therefore its Mandatory for SIKHS first and foremost to know whats a Dastaar, hats the SGGS, whats a Kirpan, Whats a Kesh/Kangha/Kachhera, Gurdwara, degh langgar etc etc..before we expect others to know...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
  18. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,623
    Likes Received:
    14,188
    muslims call their dress..hijab..and never simply cloak...technically its cloak..but not when worn by a muslim..then it transforms into hijab...
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page