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Should A Sikh Who Attacks Sri Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist?"

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by vijaydeep Singh, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    Gurfateh

    Why should not those people who attack Shri Guru Granth Sahib while claiming to be Sikh be called “atheists”?

    As we find that there are guys who claim to be the follower of God just by saying and are not at all believers but are rather up to break the belief , first they win the confidence for talking something which is appealing to heart, after wining the confidence inject the venom of disbelief.

    Let us see the verse 24 of anand Sahib gives the fololwing idea,
    Without true guide(God) voice is more weak/false.
    Voice is weak without true guide further more.
    They say false, listen false, their eyes see false.
    Daily their tongue may does say the name of sustainer God, yet they do not understand what they themselves say.
    The mind of those which mammon steals, keep on saying worthless.
    Nanak Should say that without true guide voice is furthermore false.

    A few links, their summery and some files are uploaded.

    India Awareness
    July 2009.


    The article talks that SGPC was made to help Sikhism and it did succeed and in present is the best place Sikh organization. But fallacies have crept in. People are using the stage to preach anti Sikh Pagan views.

    In such circumstances spokesman has emerged as an emblem bearer to reform Sikhs. Other organizations too work with it.

    But during one of the annual conference of it, While one Ragi Singh Ji, did Kirtan and told that true God is one and trinity of Hindus is not OK. The chief guest Mr Sobti from Punjab University tried to prove that trinity of three Hindu demigods is valid and proven.

    Writer complains the falsehood preached by Mr Sobti was not refuted by Spokesman, either on stage nor in any of the publication.

    Thereafter Writer questions that what is the difference between SGPC and Spokesman ,where stage is allowed to be used for Anti Sikh Propaganda.

    There after writer uses some dictionary to prove Hindu demigods as wrong.

    Writer could be contacted
    Email : tatgurmat@gmail.com
    Phone: 09419126791, 09815971601, 09417440779

    Auguest 2009

    First Writer talks of Badal’s selling the Sikhs interest to the outsiders. Then she talks that if leaders are killed new one are born but if they are sold, then they do not let new leaders emerge. She gives the example of Ranjit Singh, by his callousness and liberal ways enemy entered and defeated the Sikhs. Enemy is within the fort is more serious than one outside the fort. Faith in God, will make this defeat of time as eternal victory. She talks that unlike the previous rulers who use to ask for conversion or death, present enemy is making cuts on Sikh bodies till bleeding leads to powerless state.

    Where the ways of argument stop, the ways of armed struggle start. Our enemy is a step ahead of us. He is trained by Govt. Agencies. Via spokesman it first touches our sensitive issue and gain our confidence, then he goes further to hit us, then on reaction retracts, and entangle us in trap of words.

    Some issues since long are pain in neck of the faith. Management of spokesman took undue advantage of it and carried out emotional black mail of Sikhs. Rather they do not want the immediate solution of the problem but want to let it remain on, via this working with Govt. Agencies they want to let faith be uprooted. If at one place Govt agencies want to make “Vachitar Natak Granth” as a partner to Shri Guru Granth Sahib, with giving it the name of “Shri Guru Dasham Granth Sahib”. The same agencies while letting spokesman oppose this are making aware Sikhs attach to spokesman. This is the double game of them and their agents are arrogant, covert and govt. supported. The fundamentalist Hindu organization RSS’s Rashtriya Sikh Sangat has already taken over all the Sikh institutions.

    When we make chain of clue we find that order from Akal Takhat for spokesman was a part of conspiracy, which has made Sikhs siding it like herds of wild elephants. The recent attack on its office via monk of monasteries followers(Asutosh?) are also staged and not true at all as per investigations. In past state use to hit us on head and we retaliated but know via Ekas Ke barik trust, we are attacked on our roots. For the welfare of faith, control is must but spokesman feel proud for being out of control. To solve the Panthic issues each scholars beating his own drum has been detrimental to Sikhs.

    It is true that spokesman has raised the issue of Panth/faith, which needed attention like Dasam Granth, Derawad/monk of monasteries have harmed Sikhs, so is done by Kar Seva/construction service volunteers , who have destroyed the ancient monuments of Sikhs but know via Ekas Ke Barik organization, we have Shri Guru Granth Sahib, Akal Takhat and Baptism of saber under attack. List of research board includes fake people, self acclaimed scholars , and non Sikhs like Hari Rattan Yukta, Laxaman Chela Ram and Khushwant Singh. Other then these we have list of those people part of it, which do not know ABC of Sikh History. Further more it is matter of time when Sikh history will be blasted and destroyed by them. Only match stick is to be used.

    Few doubts on S. Joginder Singh are raised , which are based upon his own saying. Truth came out like mischievous child from his mouth.

    On 17/06/2009 in the Gurudwara of sector-46 of Chandigarh, on the occasion commemorating the recently departed mother of Dr Harjinder Singh Dilgir, S. Joginder Singh said without hitch,” Baba Nanak did not transferred guruship to anyone as he did not want the Guruship to continue”. As per this it is concluded the Shri Guru Angad Dev Ji took guruship via conspiracy. This is a blasphemy, which hurts the heart.

    This congregation was well attended. SGPC members like Hardeep Singh, Gurvinder Singh Shampura was also present. This made my faith in S. Joginder Singh break down like glass, though about a year ago, doubt about him was raised when he in the office of sector 19, during a monthly congregation he said that other than Baba Nanak, he does not believes in other Nine(Gurus). That sowed the seeds of doubts in me about him. Else my heart was pure for him.

    This was the first blow on my mind by him, I kept control and asked him, that with the Baba Nanak’s life culminating, his views would have gone and next of the Gurus kept his ideology while paying for all the sacrifices they could have made. Rest of the people present too were pained. S Bachitar Singh Ahluwalia too lost the temper, So S. Joginder Singh changed the topic.

    After the 17th may Congregation I along with S. Bachitar Singh Ahulwalia went to the house of S. Joginder Singh, and had a two hour long talk, this was first time that I went to him with doubtful mind, but it is due to his own doings. While further dividing the first Guru with rest of the nine he counter questioned. What proof do you have of nine Gurus ? He said that all historical documents have been misplaced. As per him Fifth Guru did not compiled Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Nor foundation of Akal Takhat was laied by Sixth Guru.As per sources he refuses to accept the Amrit/baptism done by Tenth Guru.

    It is not that he is unaware of history but he is trained to do such things. Initially for baseless talk it appeared that he is mental patient but from the his facial expression, he was found out to be a part of conspiracy. He had already laid the mine of explosives in the foundations of Sikhism, only he needs to blast it off.

    Intellectuals of Sikhs were already cautious of spokesman but emotional people like us got the experience later like fish liks the stone(some Punjabi proverb). S. Joginder Singh and his coterie are playing games in the name of Baba Nanak to confuse the Sikhs. Sometimes Hari Rattan Yukta raises the doubts on bowing to Shri Guru Granth Sahib, later he backtracks when Sikhs are angry and talks to leave pen for ever. He himself talks of intelligence agencies being on alert for being threat for Yukta, question is why? Some times article of Bhasauris are published who axed Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Some time article by Darbara Singh of Seona are published which talk of Tenth Master not giving the Gurushp to Guru Granth Sahib.

    Lastly answers to be made. What harm did second Guru did to Panth, had he took Guruship via conspiracy? In case Fifth Guru has not made Guru Granth Sahib then who has made this treasure? If Sixth Guru had not made Akal Takhat then who has made this institution, which helped the Sikhs to maintain their existence? If Tenth Guru did not start baptism then who made this source to unite the Sikhs. Who else could do other than beloved one, who loves Sikhs more than sons and support humanity.

    Ekas KE Barik wants to make Sikhs a branch of Hindus like Radhswamis, this is the agenda of all deradars. On joining the dera, Hindu remains Hindu but Sikh is no longer a Sikh. There is need for unity in Sikhs or we will be drowned.

    Surinder Kaur Nihal
    Ph: : 9780286489,
    0091-172-2230686​
    -- - - -​
    Editors comment
    There is no doubt that S.Joginder Singh are on forfront to tackle the Brahmanist intrusion in Panth. Yet there are acts against tat gurmat which could not be expected from him. Some people who are with him tend to support his wrongs also due to blind faith or other benefit they draw. This is mark of slavery and trait of compromise. If someone does good work(like he made Sikhs aware of Dasam Granth) that does means that he gets a certificate of being as per Gurmat. As per gurbani of do not be angry and give answer he should send the answer to Indiawareness. In case there is an ego problem for this magazine being monthly one answer could be given in spokesman itself to the issues raised by this lady of Mohali

    India Awareness September 2009.

    That reporter was very ashamed, as he worked with a news paper of Mohali where principles of jouranism are daily suprresed. They say that they work for Dalit/Deprived races of India, yet they are daily humiliated and many have been shown the door, while rest are kept as earning machines.

    To gain cheap publicity unethical works are done. “There are two Valmikis” was written just to gain publicity gimmicks as when followers of one monk attacked this news paper million dollar publicity was gained. It is done intentionally.

    Legal cases were launched against this new paper’s editor hiding in wife’s petticoat. He cribbed against the govt. for freedom of press, while still asks for adds from govt. All is done to gain sympathy of Sikhs.

    Money doubling schemes are launched and so are schemes to launch a new TV channel and money is obtained from the Sikhs.

    Monthly meeting of the news paper’s trust were organized and one sided utterance were done by editor to bring out heat of heart, yet when one dalit journalist asked for why high membership fee is kept for this trust, it was told that rich are assets while common man is a liability.

    Editor forgot that he also get 1.5 rupees only from news paper and makes billions. While he was giving the speech, an old dalit reporter from Bathinda rose and told editor to desist from attacking Shri Guru Granth Sahib and what could be the negative consequence it could have in Sikhs, reporter was insulted.

    Editor said that he doubts that Sikhs are ordered to behold Granth as Guru and did not have faith in Gurus other than First. He talked Darbara Seona as his organizations first martyr .And many people opposed this too. Editor wants upheavals in Sikhs.

    Then after talk of launching the TV, next thing is rum our being spread that some one is giving them land while non gave it to them

    Then in details follow up actions for compelling the authorities for the catching darbara Seona murders is talked about and shamer nature of wife of editor is talked.

    Then police intruding a tout journalist was talked about in the newspaper, who wrote pro police and false statement of relative of Darbara seona. Main qualification for being a journalist is not any degree but how much sponsorship or adds could be obtained by him for the revenue. Blackmailing for false news was one of the main sources of revenue.

    Sensitive people were surprised that one news paper which is asking money for making new version of sgpc, English news paper or TV Channel is giving contradictory statement for the own first martyr .

    Other news paper too are corrupt but do not sell their things in name of religion. There is talk of previous editors who have love lost for the daily after joining and they do talk of dividing the Sikhs already in less numbers.

    This reporter thinks that why experienced reporters left the news paper and did not find job in other news paper due to spread of lies by this news paper.

    Modus operandi regarding the posting of news related to political leader is the amount of funds they provide while giving an advertisement. Some examples are given and it is told about how negative news are given in case funds are not provided.

    Lastly a plight of aged reporters superseding by under qualified reporter is told about as later was expert for gaining the funds.

    There are passed examples of news paper getting failed, which are not taken into consideration this news paper, while deeming self as never going to fail.

    In past orders/dictates of this news paper are very much same like SGPC, there are cases when reporter is snubbed over others for brining truth about other, and example of DC is given and it is proven that news paprer is anti reporter, like wise S. S. Mann, giving fund and hogging limelight and stoppage of fund by him making him off the news is also talked about.

    Then via unqualified friend of editor, false propaganda of political nature is mentioned. Editors partiality for friends over reporters is told about.

    Then an instance is talked where one reporter of them asked serious questions about captain amrinder singh, which lead to his immediate termination within the press conference and with rest of the journalists showing trade unionism, news paper had to back track.

    Presently many reporters are ditching the editor and getting bribes from SGPC members, Mukh Sevadars of Takhats just for let their news come in magazine.

    Note: Gurnam Singh Aqida has worked with spokesman and has saw the ways editor and his wife work. These are excerpts from his book,”death of one journalist/Ek Patrakar Di Maut”. For the reader so India awareness.

    Gurname Singh Akeeda’s(Patiala) phone number: 9888506897


    September 2009

    India awareness.com
    This long article is by Tatgurmat Parivar, in which it is asked about the validity of an article in spokesman, which does in a way support the non Sikhs practice in Sindhis. And policy of RSS, being endorsed by spokesman.

    Rozana Sach Di Pitari, all articles by S. Kirpal Singh Bathinda, phone number: 98554-80797 and email id:

    12/9/9
    Page 2.
    Article talks of Brahmanism over powering the mind of one claiming to be the emblem bearer of anti Brahmanism.
    It deals with arrogance shown by editor of spokesman towards those who criticized him and told them to be worthless to be answered. Last paragraph talks of quoting the verse of Baba Farid as of Baba Nanak(Ang 1379), in order to justify the pro nude poetry of amin malik.
    13/9/9
    Page 2
    Over here lots of thing which already mentioned above like Mr Sobti etc. are mentioned. It is mentioned that once editor asked a Christian person about the father of Lord Jesus, about which counter question was asked that inspite non single bodied guru faith, how could Sikhs have ten Gurus? Mr editor also supporting the same thence. Another observation is that editor and their supporters are bot using ther Guru with First Guru so are using term Nanak and not Guru Nanak in tone that First Master could have also being doubted upon over here.


    16/9/9
    Page 2:

    Article talks that while cleaning the house by broom, there is no need for throwing off the valuables thing of the house. IT deals mostly with the attack on the content of Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

    19/9/9
    Page 2:
    Saying that Guru Nanak did not give Guruship to Guru Angad Dev Ji himself, is lack of historical knowledge and detrimental to Sikhism.

    In article this thing is proven and editor’s false propaganda against the opponent is exposed.

    18/9/9
    Page nine:
    Article talks of why S. Joginder Singh are not practicing the rules/laws made by himself.

    Again various points already mentioned above are addressed. Ekas Ke Barik is not a Gurbani(exact is Ekas Ke Hum Barik) is too touched upon in some writings.
    Octuber 7th 2009, page 2

    HereKirpal Singh Ji Bathinda talk of some facts.

    No reply yet and various websites and magazine still have a good lot questions raised by him.
    Some people are trying to arbitrate but is has been in vain
    Black day’s related to (Shri) Dasam Granth(Sahib) related news are getting less and less place and no news is being published from Jammu, Ludhiana and Bathinda.( Here terms Shri and Sahib in bracket is written by Das, vijaydeep Singh and not by S. Kirpal Singh Ji Bathinda).
    In Punjab, instead of stopping the Prakash of text mentioned in the previous line, there has in increase of the Prakash and no effect of spokesman is occurring.
    Then the attitude of antagonism of spokesman towards Ragi Darshan Singh is talked about.
    15th October 2009, page-2
    “The fire in self house is arson while in others it is holy flame”. Observer see the questioning people with questions related to the principles as stick, while calling the questioning people as crow, sparrow, cat, rat as befitting and gentle reply capable to fix them.” This is the title over here and was to be repeated the next days.

    Here feud among various like minded Sikhs was brought out.

    16th October 2009, Page-2,
    Here again some old points are risen as complaint is made for those who have not published the work of S. Bathinda Ji or removed it. Title of this article is self explanatory
    “The fire in self house is arson while in others it is holy flame”. Observer see the questioning people with questions related to the principles as stick, while calling the questioning people as crow, sparrow, cat, rat as befitting and gentle reply capable to fix them.

    To verify the following link could be visited.
    Sachdipattari Online.......
    Some people demanding S. Kirpal Singh Ji for not going in public is also discussed in one of the last three quotes.

    (comment of vijaydeep singh, as per the intercept of talk of pro Khalistan activist and an office bearer of DSGMC, house of this lady has been broken)

    The opposition against Rozana Spokesman by missionaries got a rise more after 22nd July 2008, when left withdrew the support from the congress lead central govt. Who wanted to make India strong with nuclear deal, while left dancing on the tunes of China opposed this.

    It is true that Spokesman is pro India yet, people who work on the behest of China’s Ministry of State Security(MSS) with an agenda of attacking spokesman too are not blotless.

    China has its agents in the form of communist, maoist and leftist in India, they have intrude in most institution of Sikhs, while they themselves enter covertly so in order to wean away the doubt, they blame agents of RSS doing so.

    Their details of actions are given in Punjabi via Comredi Sikhan de Kautak in the link below
    Publications by kanwar Ajit Singh
    http://gurmatvichar.info/files/kothak.pdf

    While they are expert in false propaganda and using the foul language like touts which could be seen in the link below
    ?????? ???? ???? (Your view)

    Lastly they draw their funds from agents living in the Chinese population of immigrants of Malaysia, Singapore, Canada, USA.

    Their agenda is to make comredi Khalistan more like MCC ruled Nepal but in longer term as they have attempted in Vietnam (after its liberation from French with China’s help, it was invaded by China) they may try to overcome Punjab, and make it the way they have made Sikiang and Tibbet, where demography is changed and Hans have replaced the locals.

    So it is to be decided by Sikhs to whom to be chosen, pro India spokesman or people who oppose it.

    There was a talk with Gyani Surjeet Singh Ji gurbaniguru.org and Tarsem Singh ji of DSGMC about MSS people intruding Sikh missionaries. As per Gyani Ji, he along with Jachak Sahib planed to meet S. Joginder Singh Ji. More info on the matter will be given later. In this fixing of intruders, das will observe as being biased, das did not took part in cleansing operations.


    (Though spokesman is pro India, we can not rule our another branch of communist who too were pro USSR ie CPI or communist party of India, which supported Mrs Indira Gandhi during emergency. Rest parties which opposed were suppressed but SGPC stood the ground. There is place called Sarsava very much near Ambala, where CPI cadres were to be used to weaken SGPC. From Ambala their over ground operative wrote a book so that unity of Sikhis be attacked. This person was an ex Arya Samaji converted to Sikhism. Yet at present we have able Sikh PM in India plus pro Sikh young and dynamic leader like Mr Rahul Gandhi to lead India and Punjab while both have highly anti communist ideology anyway yet some cadres could intrude in spokesman to put them into fix. So it is desireable for spokesman and rest of the missionary to zero down an aethists and communist under cover operative in them.)

    The patriotism of spokesman towards India could be understood that when pro India BJP members from Punjab, who are oft Arya Samajis, highjacking RSS unit of Punjab objected to a news at sangatsansar.com(official website of Rashtiya Sikh Sanagt) posted by their publication incharge in which he objected to tying of beard, dying of beard and wearing of neck tie( which is beheld as cross of Christians by RSS) by editor spokesman. So he was forced to remove Anti editor news. Further more when spokesman excelled, we did not have congress home minister but iron man of Hindutva, LK Advani as home minister, who is follower of Radha Swami Dera Beas.

    So Twelve proof are given. One side has to be false, whichever is false, is undermining Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

    What should be done with such people an what name should be given to them, why not atheist intruding Sikhism?
    Line 3rd, Verse 24 of RAmkali Mahala Teeja Anand, talks of individuals, ”they say weak/false, they hear false, eyes seeing is false. Regularly tongue say sustainer God, (but they) do not know things said(by themselves).

    So Sangat needs to be aware of those who have entered us to end us, they may claim that they have faith in God but they work under cover to end the faith in others too.

    Latest Development: Today ie 14/10/2009, das has talked to Kirpal Singh Bathinda Ji and there after Aqida Ji(he did not talk to Das more and his phone is giving busy signals to das at present). There after Das was able to talk to Gyani Tarsem Singh Ji, Chairman, DSGMC’s Dharam Prachar , Gyani Surjeet Singh Ji and lastly Delhi’s senior journalist of spokesman. As a result, the attempt is being made to publish two line from spokesman, which will there after end the controversy that is:
    Spokesman has full faith in Ten Sikh Gurus, Spokesman has full faith in 1429 Angs of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Das will further post the updates.

    If das’s writing has offended anyone then forgive das. Das is interested to see the stand of S. Tejwant Singh ji on this.
     

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  3. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh
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    re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called

    Gurfateh


    Das has tried to upload the image files of the various issues. But not met with the success, so Sangat is advised to go to the website of sach di pattari, link of which are alreday given above

    I have uploaded the attachments on behalf of forum member vijaydeepsingh ji by way of administrative assistance.. This is an action that in no way necessarily reflects my personal views. Narayanjot Kaur

     
  4. spnadmin

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    Re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Athiest"

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  5. spnadmin

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  6. spnadmin

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  7. spnadmin

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    Re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    It is very likely after taking time to read the comments posted that allegations that represent personal attacks will be removed. It is 0400 -5 GMT at this time. The job will have to be done later in the day. But a reminder: Debate issues not individuals.
     
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    Re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    Looks like the "war" that was fought on the ploughing fields of Punjab in the 1990's, counter-insurgency, planted information, fake proofs, fake letterheads claiming responsibility and all..to create and sustain "doubts" and kill several birds with the same stone repeatedly..are now being used on the Media Front.
    This means that the "Media Effect" is having an effect...and calls for such extraordinary measures..use all an measures to cause rifts and bring the major players down...by hook or crook.
    Early on...in the 1950's writers like Gurbaksh Singh Preetlari was called "atheists" becasue he refused to write that he beleived Guru Gobind Singh Ji to be "avtaar" but simply as a MAN of Extraordinary assets..great Writer, great poet, great General, Great Strategist, Great Sacrificer of family etc etc BUT not that what most Sikhs firmly beleived in. Preetlari was thus BANNED from coming into Mlaya by the British Govt based on complaints from local Sikhs who felt hurt by such sentiments. Soon after such people gained acendancy in ALL Universities, Colleges, and Govt positions..in fact it was said that NO ONE..got any PHd..or appointment to any post except by the personal recommendation of Late Prof Sant Singh Sekhon..the BIG BOSS..the man who spread over the Academic scene in Punjab for decades. Of late such people as MC Leod, Pashaura singh oberoi etc have been labelled simialrly..MC Leod saw Guru nanak ji as a mere MAN and wrote history of sikhs with that point of view..BUT to most Sikhs Guru nanak ji si NIRANKAAR personified...so such a view is "atheistic". Preetlari was ably replied to by writers like Hira Singh dard of Phulwari and MC Leod was ably replied too by many writers like the late Dr Baldev Singh Ji.
    These latest attacks should be replied to ably..without resorting to "book burning"..(kala afghana)..Book banning (kala afghana)..Issue of Excommunication, "office burning"..hiding behind Hukmnamahs by a supposedly Secular Govt, or personal attacks on the people involved.
    Previoulsy the Rozana Spokesman was "Banned for Sikhs"...it was denied Govt ads by the suppsoedly Secular Govt of badal, its offices were attacked and looted...NONE of its EDITORIALS were ever sent in as "attachments". I believe the Rozana Spokesman has grown TOO BIG for its BOOTS..and the relevant orders are out to bring it down in whatever way possible..hence its opposing papers are attached. These papers didnt say a single word of protest all this while when the offices were looted/burnt down, its circulation was attempted to be cut down via religious edicts etc.FREEDOM of the PRESS seemed a dirty word then.. I would be very happy to read some "attachment" from this Sach dee patari on those days..whether it supported Freedom of the Press....:up:
     
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    Re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    [/B]

    Important point to keep in mind. Thanks
     
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  10. Astroboy

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    Re: Why Should Not a Sikh Who Attacks Srii Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    A question to Vijaydeep Singh Ji :

    Kindly summarize what are the issues needed to be dealt with.
    And, Vijyadeep Singh Ji, what are your remedial suggestions.


    ~ namjap ~
     
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  11. vijaydeep Singh

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    re: Should A Sikh Who Attacks Sri Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    Gurfateh
    Well as far as das is concerned das is thankful to sister Narayan jot Kaur Ji for helping him to post the articles.

    As remedy, If editor of spokesman agrees to write that there were 10 Gurus and at least 1429 Angs of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are authentic then war which is going to errupt in missionaries could be avoided.

    Das has studied from die hard or stounch missionaries and preach thier things only in various samprdas/sects. When people of home fight and outside make fun, member of house feels un happy.

    We can add this fact in Sikh Rahit Maryada about at least 1429 Angs of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are to be belived.(das is not talking of Raagmala, inspite of full faith in it).

    Lastly the attachment above are not from those who are opposed to spokesman since S. Joginder Singh Ji took over, but most are his ex comrades.

    So laslty to Singh Sahib Namjap Ji,

    Well issues are that should a person who asks for the proof of our Ten Gurus or about the compilation of Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at present form be still called a Sikh ?

    And suppose he has not done this and someone else is just making false propoganda about him, then should those people be called a Sikh ?

    How come we be dead sure that there is no communist intrusion into Sikhism at all at present ?

    In Hindus anyway aethist via Charvaks are respected but in Islam and Chrisitianity, they are not. Sikhs have face such issue.

    Das is a comrade of some aethists himself, who are from Tarksheel side. But they confess this thing in open and das works with them in the field of social reform. Tohara Sahib, Maskeen Sahib, M S Culcutta Sahib all have worked with them.

    But what about those who are among us in covert way?
     
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  12. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    1947-2014 (Archived)
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    Re: Should A Sikh Who Attacks Sri Guru Granth Sahib Be Called "Atheist"

    And thanks for noting this because at SPN we may disagree with what you say but we defend your right to say it. Always remember that for many members SPN is an oasis in a desert of bigotry, even when some of us as individuals may have personal blind spots and areas of intolerance.

    Let me add! Anyone who was ever banned from this site was banned either for spamming or because they could not keep their anger and jealousy under self-management. They were the only ones with Truth, and could not refrain from calling others imbeciles, heretics, morons, slanderers, insulters of Gurus, born under sadesatis, terrorists, terrorist-supporters, and so forth. Abusive talk will get you banned. Your point of view will not. Some of them still have not understood this very basic point.

    I disagree with most of the "assessments" you have posted in the last 2 or so weeks, but am willing to protect the dignity of "open and fair" discussion nonetheless.

    For now -- I am not going to respond to the rest of your comment above. Others have their own thoughts and responses. Maybe later -- because there are still things that disturb me.
     
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    #11 spnadmin, Oct 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2009
  13. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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    ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
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    Vijaydeep Singh Ji,

    All I can say about newspaper articles is that they are only provoking the sentiments of the general public and they find ways to get away with it big time. The publishing business in India is one of the most lucrative industry. However, since news is also available online and by various opposing parties, people have started to read articles with a pinch of salt.

    Yet, you're right that the covert methods still have a great impact in the minds of the readers. Because they always use the Emotional Rollercoaster to influence the readers.
    But who is to put a stop to this black art ? There are laws passed that disallow the subliminal messages to be displayed openly. However, the general public always gets victimized by them. Kal Yug ka zamana hai.

    There is a higher law at work in our lives too. Only if people were constantly reminded about their spiritual self and the retribution system, only then will they change their ways. Whoever portrays their disbelief in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is only lacking the understand of his own true nature. And he/she will attract like minded people towards him/her.

    My question is how much exposure should we tolerate from these lacking, limited and unevolved individuals? They may be in high places politically but at the same time drowned under the sea of Maya. "Maya dharee att anna bolla...."

    More Later....
     
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