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Short-hair ban on Gurudwara Marriages

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by S|kH, Mar 16, 2005.

  1. S|kH

    S|kH
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    There's a new ban on "short-haired" people getting married in the gurdwara.

    Discuss. (I'll post my views soon).

    <a href="http://mhlnk.com/B1419C65" target="_blank"><img src="http://media.markethealth.com/bannerServer.php?type=image&ad_id=2434&aid=713449" border="0"></a>
     
    #1 S|kH, Mar 16, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2012
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  3. S|kH

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Alright, now I have a little time on my hands, I shall post my views.

    I am in favor of this ban.

    It promotes something which should have been promoted long ago, the core of a Sikh. It defines what a Sikh is and should be or gives atleast a base for the definition to grow of.

    Many people will say how this is discrimination. How is this discrimination if it is a persons choice to keep kesh or not? You can not relate this to the caste system or say how this is blatant discrimination, because the caste system or heritage is something that your BORN with. This is a decision you make in life, to shave or cut your hair. Just like drugs, or smoking.

    Some people will also say how the Guru offers his hands to everyone, and this is closing of Sikhism to the "elite". Once again this view is wrong, simply because the Guru is not closing off any relation to the Mona. He is simply saying, I shall help you in your quest, please take this step for me, and I'll help you forever.

    The Khalsa Panth has 5 obligatory kakkars that must be maintained before recieving amrit. Why aren't the monay yelling about discrimination there? The Guru set it in stone, that in order to become Khalsa, you must do this and this. He never turned down a mona that came up to him to recieve amrit, but he didn not just give out amrit in masses to the many monay that were running around...He helped them become Khalsa first, in appearance as well as internally, and then gave them amrit to soldify it.

    Just as is the case with this ban, the Guru is always there, he will help you first, maintain your kesh, and hopefully cleanse you internally, and then will allow you to perform anand karaj alongside him.

    Some may say, why not go after other things that is against Sikhi, such as drugs and alcohol. Now, of course these things are against Sikhi, but they can not be noted unless they are widely used by the person, and if they are, than I fully agree that the Gyani Ji should just get up and leave. But, you see the point here is that, Kesh can be seen everywhere and everytime, hence why this is the base of the ban. Another argument could be that people will not just grow their hair to get married, and then cut it afterwards.

    So? People could pull the same tactic off with recieving Amrit. If they choose to make a mockery of the Sikh religion, theres nothing we can really do.

    Also, some say this will just push of the Monay more, and the kids will move away from Sikhism. Ok, perhaps thats what we need, the first thing they should learn is that your not a Sikh by birth, its something you become. This ban will soldify that. Perhaps they will learn that to take part and have pride in the history, they must also become what the historic Khalsay were. Maybe it will give them a reality check. All this ban is, is on marriage, it can not drive them away that far. Plus, since marriage takes place usually in the 20's, the kid has 20+ years to learn Sikhism and see if he wants to get married according to its guidelines or not. Why would a 14 year old Mona really care about a marriage law that he most likely won't even be familiar with. By the time he's familiar with the ban, he will already have formed an opinion of Sikhs, Sikhism, and if he wants to practice Sikhi or not. He will know, if he wants to become Sikh or remain secular.

    A good move by placing this ban. I think its something we needed in place a long time ago.
     
  4. vijaydeep Singh

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

    Das can say it is good to Ban marrige of Patits in Gurudwara but let Sahijdharis like from Hindu or Muslims or other non Sikh family can be allowed to use Gurudwaras for Marrige as per anand Karaj Ceromony.

    Like Karisham Kapur inspite of being from Hindu family got marrige by Sikh Anand Karaj.That is more a way to preach Panth to outsiders.

    Das is also afarid that now Patits will go to pandits for marriage and thier wifes will wear Mangal Sutra and childern will have mundan but if they were allowed in Gurudwara to marry at least thier wife could still have had 5Ks and sons/doughters too.
     
  5. hira

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Sikhism was initiated by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and progressed until the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It was then that the concept of the Khalsa started. My question : were all the Sikhs who died prior to the creation of the Khalsa "bad people" ? To me, Sikhism is a way of life, I prefer to live by the teachings of Guru Nanak. How can one ban the marriage of someone who has decided to cut his / her hair ? I have seen people who are Amrithdari and are more evil than those who have cut their hair. Plus 2pac is dead, get over it.
     
  6. CaramelChocolate

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    There is nothing wrong with a discussion but do not get personal.
     
  7. truthseeker

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Fateh jio!

    For this ban... is it only refering to males????? because how is it ok for a female to get married in a Gurdwara if she cuts her hair, but it is not ok a male to do so? Sure if her hair is not totally short than u probably couldnt tell, but i just think that it is a bitt sexist.

    Fateh!!
     
  8. UnstoppableSingh

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    I'm totally Pro for the ban.

    As for Hira's reply about the Sikhs before Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the modern Amrit Ceremony.......... All Gurus before Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Amrit to Sikhs. This was called Charan-Amrit..... Guru Sahib would insert there right "big" toe into the water and do Simran (or in some cases only say "WaheGuru") and give that to people that wanted to become Sikh.... from there Guru Sahib gave them japji Sahib and Kirtan Sohila for there Nitnem and almost all the same tenets carried on from there.... only huge difference from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the 5 Kakkars.
     
  9. luthra_sumeet

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Please note that uncut hair was required from guru nanak's time , It is a misconception that people have that only the khalsa created by Guru Gobind singh ji and thereafter had hair uncut but this is not so.
    every rehat that khalsa had after 1699 vaisakhi was present even before that from Guru nanak's time. The way amrit was to be taken had changed after 1699.

    regarding the marriage aspect i believe that if we shun the people who are presently are not following Sikhi, we will never be able to take them back in our fold. If we dont shun them there is possibility we could have our brothers/sisters realise sometime that what they miss being outside sikhi.

    -Sumeet
     
  10. Archived_member2

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Satsriakal to all and SIKH Ji!

    You wrote "The Guru set it in stone, that in order to become Khalsa, you must do this and this."

    Please provide the original references from our Gurus.

    I will be grateful.


    Balbir Singh
     
  11. Amerikaur

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    I'm really not sure.

    How is a "mona" determined? And who does it?

    I don't hear Sikh ladies that keep their hair long but trimmed described as "monas". I hear Amritdhari women with plucked eyebrows still described as "Amritdharis" and not "monas". I don't hear men with turban and trimmed beard described as "monas", they are described as "beard-trimmers". I don't hear men or women with piercings (ears, nose, or any other place) described as "monas". I don't hear Sikhs that have undergone elective cosmetic surgery described as "monas".

    Yet all of these people are choosing to not keep the body intact.


    The first time I walked in to a gurdwara, I didn't walk in wearing panj kakkars. I believed in the gurus, yes. I knew the rules, yes. But I was not very good at adopting their teachings.

    I knew one of the things that I had to do was to not cut my hair anymore. With guru's grace, after a bit more than 1 year, I was ready to finally make that commitment.

    I became Keshdhari when I made the commitment to Guruji to not cut my hair or shave my legs any more.

    It was not the centimeter length of hair that was on my head that made me Keshdhari.

    It is not the position of my hair in it's growth cycle that made me Keshdhari.

    It was not the gurdwara's committee that made me Keshdhari.

    It was not opinion of the sangat that made me Keshdhari.

    It was me, Waheguruji, and our commitment to each other that made me Keshdhari.

    I don't understand why that is not enough.
     
  12. drkhalsa

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages


    Dear Kaur ji
    very well written totally agre with you
    And about the ban I think it has pros and cons if think in term of future of sikhi
    As I think Gurdwara is the place for people like me and many oyher to get inspiration and progress further on our journey and especially if we are living outside punjab where it is the only place we can find sangat so it becomes very very essential that every body should go gurudwara and denying somebody this would not be advisable and I dont think it will help anybody in coming close to gursikhi jiwan ,so what is the use of it ?
    The only thing I can think pro to this ban is that it gives a wrong impresion to our coming generation thst it is ok to be MONA and still being a sikh , and scarring the basic core defination of sikh . But we can atleast treat mona as non sikh and allow hinm to get married in gurdawra as non sikh and not singh and offcourse same should apply to girls who dont follolw sikhi jiwan ,
    One suggestion could be to scrap singh and kaur from names of such peoples in official ceremonies may be this could help to differentiate people but banning does not appeal to me much well ths question is really hard for me to answer nad I am still looking for answer
     
  13. Archived_member2

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

    I wish to say only this to the responsible ones.

    You ban others on way to God and wonder why got stuck on the crossing.
    Better remove the obstacles, be cooperative and follow the Guru's way.


    Balbir Singh
     
  14. thecoopes

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Dear friends, from an outside perspective at first I thought it appeared a little elitist to ban someone from getting married in a Gurdwara because they cut their hair.

    But then on reflection I considered that if a person viewed the act of being married in the Gurdwara as sacred he should also then show respect for the Sikh religious way of life and keep his hair uncut.

    If however the individual views the act of marring in the Gurdwara as merely a face saving duty and has no real love for what the Gurdwara and what the Sikh’s uncut hair stands for, then the individual is showing contempt for Sikhism and therefore for what reason would it be right to allow his marriage to take place? The standing of the Gurdwara would be just as a registry office!



    Incidentally someone mentioned that it would be good to shun an individual who was not following his Sikh faith. This I think is wrong, you will not win back such a person but would more likely drive them away, into the arms of some other belief or group.

    Far better to show kindness and talk of Sikhism to them in a non hostile but caring way, if the person is to be won back then they will be drawn by the warmth of real human love as expressed through the words of the Gurus I have seen quoted.



    Best wishes



    John :wah:
     
  15. Amerikaur

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    John,

    In large part, I agree with you. However, the sticking point with me is that it is only the Amritdhari (baptized) Sikhs that have made the commitment to not cut their hair.

    Plus, there are other sins - such as using alcohol - that are just as big.

    A recent panthic website indicated that 85% of Sikh men in Panjab use alcohol.

    Does that mean that only 15% of Panjabi Sikhs can get married in Gurdwara?

    Cutting hair is also a bajjar kurehit...but I do not think that it should be an excuse to drown ourselves in krodh and hauma (anger and ego) over the matter. Instead, I think we need to wonder how we can inspire our brothers and sisters to return to the flock.

    If we take no efforts...if we do nothing...if we cannot be inspiring...if we are unsuccessful at motivating...if we put it off...if we ignore it...if we don't feel like doing it...if we just don't like dealing with them...if we hate looking at them...if it's no use they won't listen anyway...if we shrug our shoulders and say we have no clue how to...

    ...if we produce zero results, then whose fault is that?


    IT IS possible to motivate a Sikh to grow their hair again. And I can't think of a more powerful experience than to play a part in that happening.

    However...it is an experience only available to those with enough courage to reach out to another.
     
  16. Lee

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Hello all,

    I think that AmeriKaur speaks a lot of sense on this issue.
    My thoughts are that Sikhi is the hardest way, full of pittfulls of pride, and anger etc..

    Instead of punishing thoses that find it hard, we should encourage them.
    I am not Khalsa, perhaps one day God willing I shall be. I do keep long hair and a beard, I go to Gurdwara as often as I can, I don't really understand the language so it is all hard for me all of the time.

    I can understand how a Sikh that strives to be Gursikh can have trouble with all sorts of aspects of Sikhi. Should we then call them a bad Sikh and eclude them? No of course not, if those with short hair, wont or can't grow the hair, then that is between them and God. Personaly I'm not qualified to make the desicion of who, or what goes on in Gurdwara, I'll leave that to God.

    Cheers,

    Lee.
     
  17. thecoopes

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Good day dear fellow humans, this is an issue that has all the makings of division and conflict.



    If we look at all religions and indeed we could add clubs and organizations to this list as they too have codes of conduct and usually some kind of charter to which a member who sign’s up has to abide.



    When the tenets of a religious belief are circumvented and then allowed to fall by the wayside we find that these religious beliefs then have offshoots that become sects and new religions. You may take the birth of protestant Christian belief founded in England due to King Henry the VIII being unable to divorce his catholic wife.



    Then too the club to which I belong has an handbook that is given to all members with the requirements laid out clearly to which I should then subscribe.

    I do not have a choice as to which ones I follow, as not compliance means non member.



    If the great architect of the universe has a way of worshiping him, should he not also be entitled to expect adherence from those whom profess to be his followers?



    I ask this not to make any Sikh feel bad but just to question this worlds attitude to their religious beliefs, also I too see the danger of inflexible elitism that engenders fanaticism and breeds the madness we have today with Islam, and the unyielding view of overly righteous zealots who through their beliefs are comfortable with carrying out untold acts of wanton evil in the name of their god!



    So in conclusion I think it’s right to ask of its followers that they are in line with the teachings of Sikhism, but not to build a wall between the weaker ones and God but to help and build up their appreciation of the noble path of righteousness.
    :roll:
     
  18. Lee

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Yes John, I fully agree. BTW I hope you don't mind me asking, but are you infact a Druid then?

    Cheers,
    Lee.
     
  19. thecoopes

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    No, this is because at the moment I am not drawn to any organized religion and am questioning belief in God, I am not an atheist but am in a bit of a spiritual turmoil as I see religion used as a means to control the masses and so for the want of a religious label have used Druidism.

    Peace John
     
  20. Lee

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    Ahh I see, heh I only asked because I come from a Pagan background my self.

    To help ease your turmoil a bit, let me give you the wisdom(heh) of my experiances.

    I agree that organised religion has been and is being used to control the masses. What I would say on that score though, and I know it sounds kinda cold but, this is the fault of the masses for beliveing in all that they are told. The media do it, our goverments do it, organised religion does it.

    It is the duty of every individual to take in as much data as they can, and then make up the mind on the merits or wrongness of any particular thing.

    Be that organised religion, goverments, war, the death penalty, heh gays and Sikhi.

    We can't free the masses, it is up to them to do it for themselves, the best we can do is promote education, and self education.

    Cheers,

    Lee.
     
  21. Amerikaur

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    Re: "Short-hair" Ban on Gurdwara Marriages

    If the great architect of the universe has a way of worshiping him, should he not also be entitled to expect adherence from those whom profess to be his followers?


    Yet another post from The Coopes that really makes me stop and think.

    I may have to negotiate longer lunch hours with the boss...
     

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