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Shirdi Sai Baba

Discussion in 'Interfaith Dialogues' started by MKAUR1981, Jan 31, 2007.

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  1. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    WJKK WJKF

    It seems that many of the beliefs and teaching of Shirdi Sai Baba are similar to Sikhism. He's not regarded as a Sikh, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or Buddhist, yet many people of different faiths pray to him. Just interested in others opinions really?

    Sai Baba of Shirdi, the god who descended on earth

    (Please do not confuse with Sathya Sai Baba - one with the afro hair and was recently accused of sexual abuse. Even devotees of Sai are split in half as to whether he is a reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba)


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  3. MKAUR1981

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    Nobody wants to share their thoughts and opinions on this?:unsure:
     
  4. kaur-1

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    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

    My thoughts and opinions as requested.

    My Guru is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - shabad guru. A Sikh's Guru is Guru Granth Sahib ji.

    "Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Vich Bani Amrit Saare'
    The Word is the Guru, Guru is the Word
    Within the Word is the crux of Purity (Truth)

    "Shabad Guru surti dhun chelaa"
    The Shabad is my Guru. By focusing consciousness on this celestial sound or Shabad, I become a disciple


    Looking at or following anyone else will be extremely stupid of me and a foolish waste of my life.





    anand Sahib ji:
    ..
    ..
    khY nwnku siqgurU bwJhu hor kcI bwxI ]24]

    kahai naanak satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee. ||24||

    Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24||



    gur kw sbdu rqMnu hY hIry ijqu jVwau ]

    gur kaa sabad ratann hai heeray jit jarhaa-o.

    The Word of the Guru's Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds.



    sbdu rqnu ijqu mMnu lwgw eyhu hoAw smwau ]

    sabad ratan jit man laagaa ayhu ho-aa samaa-o.

    The mind which is attached to this jewel, merges into the Shabad.



    sbd syqI mnu imilAw scY lwieAw Bwau ]

    sabad saytee man mili-aa sachai laa-i-aa bhaa-o.

    One whose mind is attuned to the Shabad, enshrines love for the True Lord.



    Awpy hIrw rqnu Awpy ijs no dyie buJwie ]

    aapay heeraa ratan aapay jis no day-ay bujhaa-ay.

    He Himself is the diamond, and He Himself is the jewel; one who is blessed, understands its value.



    khY nwnku sbdu rqnu hY hIrw ijqu jVwau ]25]

    kahai naanak sabad ratan hai heeraa jit jarhaa-o.
    ||25||

    Says Nanak, the Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. ||25||


    ..

    ..

    ...

    ..

    ..

    ..


    ey srIrw myirAw iesu jg mih Awie kY ikAw quDu krm kmwieAw ]

    ay sareeraa mayri-aa is jag meh aa-ay kai ki-aa tuDh karam kamaa-i-aa.

    O my body, why have you come into this world? What actions have you committed?



    ik krm kmwieAw quDu srIrw jw qU jg mih AwieAw ]

    ke karam kamaa-i-aa tuDh sareeraa jaa too jag meh aa-i-aa.

    And what actions have you committed, O my body, since you came into this world?



    ijin hir qyrw rcnu ricAw so hir min n vswieAw ]

    jin har tayraa rachan rachi-aa so har man na vasaa-i-aa.

    The Lord who formed your form - you have not enshrined that Lord in your mind.



    gur prswdI hir mMin visAw pUrib iliKAw pwieAw ]

    gur parsaadee har man vasi-aa poorab likhi-aa paa-i-aa.

    By Guru's Grace, the Lord abides within the mind, and one's pre-ordained destiny is fulfilled.



    khY nwnku eyhu srIru prvwxu hoAw ijin siqgur isau icqu lwieAw ]35]

    kahai naanak ayhu sareer parvaan ho-aa jin satgur si-o chit laa-i-aa. ||35||

    Says Nanak, this body is adorned and honored, when one's consciousness is focused on the True Guru. ||35||



    ey nyqRhu myirho hir qum mih joiq DrI hir ibnu Avru n dyKhu koeI ]

    ay naytarahu mayriho har tum meh jot Dharee har bin avar na daykhhu ko-ee.

    O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do not look upon any other than the Lord.



    hir ibnu Avru n dyKhu koeI ndrI hir inhwilAw ]

    har bin avar na daykhhu ko-ee nadree har nihaali-aa.

    Do not look upon any other than the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding.



    eyhu ivsu sMswru qum dyKdy eyhu hir kw rUpu hY hir rUpu ndrI AwieAw ]

    ayhu vis sansaar tum daykh-day ayhu har kaa roop hai har roop nadree aa-i-aa.

    This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.



    gur prswdI buiJAw jw vyKw hir ieku hY hir ibnu Avru n koeI ]

    gur parsaadee bujhi-aa jaa vaykhaa har ik hai har bin avar na ko-ee.

    By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord.



    khY nwnku eyih nyqR AMD sy siqguir imilAY idb idRsit hoeI ]36]

    kahai naanak ayhi naytar anDh say satgur mili-ai dib darisat ho-ee. ||36||

    Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||



    ey sRvxhu myirho swcY sunxY no pTwey ]

    ay sarvanhu mayriho saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay.

    O my ears, you were created only to hear the Truth.



    swcY sunxY no pTwey srIir lwey suxhu siq bwxI ]

    saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay sareer laa-ay sunhu sat banee.

    To hear the Truth, you were created and attached to the body; listen to the True Bani.



    ijqu suxI mnu qnu hirAw hoAw rsnw ris smwxI ]

    jit sunee man tan hari-aa ho-aa rasnaa ras samaanee.

    Hearing it, the mind and body are rejuvenated, and the tongue is absorbed in Ambrosial Nectar.



    scu AlK ivfwxI qw kI giq khI n jwey ]

    sach alakh vidaanee taa kee gat kahee na jaa-ay.

    The True Lord is unseen and wondrous; His state cannot be described.



    khY nwnku AMimRq nwmu suxhu pivqR hovhu swcY sunxY no pTwey ]37]

    kahai naanak amrit naam sunhu pavitar hovhu saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay. ||37||

    Says Nanak, listen to the Ambrosial Naam and become holy; you were created only to hear the Truth. ||37||
     
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  5. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    kaur-1 ji,


    The Question.

    The Answer.
    I am sorry to say this but,​

    "THIS IS HARDLY THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION"​

    A little more effort would have been appreciated. I do not think anyone is trying to change your opinion. :shock: ​
     
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  6. kaur-1

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    Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

    I am sorry to hear that you could not get the meaning from my post. I sincerely hope that MKAUR1981 and other readers did understand what my reply was trying to get through.

    If you could kindly read the whole post again with the gurbani tuks, the answer is there. There is nothing complicated in the gurbani tuks I have posted.
     
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  7. vaapaaraa

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    Good reply and to the point, Rather then discussing the qualities or opinions of Sai Baba, why not tune in with the Eternal Shabad. We should forever be devoted to the eternal Shabad Guru. Others like Sai Baba will come and go.

    Guru Gobind Singh ji when he left his physical form told his sikhs, that there are many people who have miraclous powers, many who have obtained blessings, But believe it my sikh, do not follow them, they all have gotten it from the Eternal Guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji.
     
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  8. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    kaur ji,

    With my little inteligence I read your reply as "Do not ask me. I am a sikh and as a sikh I do not look or comment at anything else- hence the shabad" Perhaps my understanding of sikhism is incorrect. So am I to accept "Sikhs are just as narrowminded as any other religion. Sikhs also have a tunnel vision. Sikhs follow the literal meaning of Gurbani, Sikhs cannot give a logical answer. Sikhism is to follow the sheep in from. etc etc". I do not understand.:confused:

    I do not think this could be the vision of our Guru. :wah:

    I think I shall just keep my mouth shut in the future.:shutup:
     
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  9. kaur-1

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    Your reply has proved the point that you did not get the simple and obvious message in the anand sahib tuks posted. One has to have complete faith in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. What you are saying that by me following the divine message in Sri Guru Granth sahib ji is being narrow minded and I am having the mentality of 'follow like a sheep'. Then I will gladly be the sheep and follow my guru in Guru Granth sahib ji.

    But if you feel the need to follow a baba then go ahead.

    It clearly says that Guru hai Bani and Bani hai Guru ......so why do we need to explain more on this..Why do we need to follow this and that Baba.

    I will post the very straightforward message in Anand Sahib ji again.

    "
    Anand Sahib ji:
    ..
    ..
    khY nwnku siqgurU bwJhu hor kcI bwxI ]24]

    kahai naanak satguroo baajhahu hor kachee banee. ||24||

    Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24||



    gur kw sbdu rqMnu hY hIry ijqu jVwau ]

    gur kaa sabad ratann hai heeray jit jarhaa-o.

    The Word of the Guru's Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds.



    sbdu rqnu ijqu mMnu lwgw eyhu hoAw smwau ]

    sabad ratan jit man laagaa ayhu ho-aa samaa-o.

    The mind which is attached to this jewel, merges into the Shabad.



    sbd syqI mnu imilAw scY lwieAw Bwau ]

    sabad saytee man mili-aa sachai laa-i-aa bhaa-o.

    One whose mind is attuned to the Shabad, enshrines love for the True Lord.



    Awpy hIrw rqnu Awpy ijs no dyie buJwie ]

    aapay heeraa ratan aapay jis no day-ay bujhaa-ay.

    He Himself is the diamond, and He Himself is the jewel; one who is blessed, understands its value.



    khY nwnku sbdu rqnu hY hIrw ijqu jVwau ]25]

    kahai naanak sabad ratan hai heeraa jit jarhaa-o.
    ||25||

    Says Nanak, the Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. ||25||


    ..

    ..

    ...

    ..

    ..

    ..


    ey srIrw myirAw iesu jg mih Awie kY ikAw quDu krm kmwieAw ]

    ay sareeraa mayri-aa is jag meh aa-ay kai ki-aa tuDh karam kamaa-i-aa.

    O my body, why have you come into this world? What actions have you committed?



    ik krm kmwieAw quDu srIrw jw qU jg mih AwieAw ]

    ke karam kamaa-i-aa tuDh sareeraa jaa too jag meh aa-i-aa.

    And what actions have you committed, O my body, since you came into this world?



    ijin hir qyrw rcnu ricAw so hir min n vswieAw ]

    jin har tayraa rachan rachi-aa so har man na vasaa-i-aa.

    The Lord who formed your form - you have not enshrined that Lord in your mind.



    gur prswdI hir mMin visAw pUrib iliKAw pwieAw ]

    gur parsaadee har man vasi-aa poorab likhi-aa paa-i-aa.

    By Guru's Grace, the Lord abides within the mind, and one's pre-ordained destiny is fulfilled.



    khY nwnku eyhu srIru prvwxu hoAw ijin siqgur isau icqu lwieAw ]35]

    kahai naanak ayhu sareer parvaan ho-aa jin satgur si-o chit laa-i-aa. ||35||

    Says Nanak, this body is adorned and honored, when one's consciousness is focused on the True Guru. ||35||



    ey nyqRhu myirho hir qum mih joiq DrI hir ibnu Avru n dyKhu koeI ]

    ay naytarahu mayriho har tum meh jot Dharee har bin avar na daykhhu ko-ee.

    O my eyes, the Lord has infused His Light into you; do not look upon any other than the Lord.



    hir ibnu Avru n dyKhu koeI ndrI hir inhwilAw ]

    har bin avar na daykhhu ko-ee nadree har nihaali-aa.

    Do not look upon any other than the Lord; the Lord alone is worthy of beholding.



    eyhu ivsu sMswru qum dyKdy eyhu hir kw rUpu hY hir rUpu ndrI AwieAw ]

    ayhu vis sansaar tum daykh-day ayhu har kaa roop hai har roop nadree aa-i-aa.

    This whole world which you see is the image of the Lord; only the image of the Lord is seen.



    gur prswdI buiJAw jw vyKw hir ieku hY hir ibnu Avru n koeI ]

    gur parsaadee bujhi-aa jaa vaykhaa har ik hai har bin avar na ko-ee.

    By Guru's Grace, I understand, and I see only the One Lord; there is no one except the Lord.



    khY nwnku eyih nyqR AMD sy siqguir imilAY idb idRsit hoeI ]36]

    kahai naanak ayhi naytar anDh say satgur mili-ai dib darisat ho-ee. ||36||

    Says Nanak, these eyes were blind; but meeting the True Guru, they became all-seeing. ||36||



    ey sRvxhu myirho swcY sunxY no pTwey ]

    ay sarvanhu mayriho saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay.

    O my ears, you were created only to hear the Truth.



    swcY sunxY no pTwey srIir lwey suxhu siq bwxI ]

    saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay sareer laa-ay sunhu sat banee.

    To hear the Truth, you were created and attached to the body; listen to the True Bani.



    ijqu suxI mnu qnu hirAw hoAw rsnw ris smwxI ]

    jit sunee man tan hari-aa ho-aa rasnaa ras samaanee.

    Hearing it, the mind and body are rejuvenated, and the tongue is absorbed in Ambrosial Nectar.



    scu AlK ivfwxI qw kI giq khI n jwey ]

    sach alakh vidaanee taa kee gat kahee na jaa-ay.

    The True Lord is unseen and wondrous; His state cannot be described.



    khY nwnku AMimRq nwmu suxhu pivqR hovhu swcY sunxY no pTwey ]37]

    kahai naanak amrit naam sunhu pavitar hovhu saachai sunnai no pathaa-ay. ||37||

    Says Nanak, listen to the Ambrosial Naam and become holy; you were created only to hear the Truth. ||37||"

    ****
    "Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani Vich Bani Amrit Saare'
    The Word is the Guru, Guru is the Word
    Within the Word is the crux of Purity (Truth)


    "Shabad Guru surti dhun chelaa"
    The Shabad is my Guru. By focusing consciousness on this celestial sound or Shabad, I become a disciple

    ****

    Which tuks dont you understand? To me this is a very simple message. You either believe or you dont.



    In the original post:

    "yet many people of different faiths pray to him. Just interested in others opinions really?

    Sai Baba of Shirdi, the god who descended on earth "

    Now tell me, would you follow this Baba or follow Shabad Guru - the truth?

     
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  10. vaapaaraa

    vaapaaraa
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    I believe in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as the highest authority, no doubt there are other saints, and listening to them sometimes can broaden one's own understanding in sikhism.

    God's love speaks many languages, but its one truth.
     
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  11. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    Kaur ji,

    The ones that are not delivering the true message. Since you generated them you check them. These are the translations of an Academic and not by one that is immersed in his bliss.

    I sincerely hope you do understand the message.

    I am already a believer.

    The question is not on me but on you. Know your enemies. If you are asked this question by your own child, How would you answer it. By a half cooked translation of the "Shabad". Shabads are the emotions of our Gurus. You have to create a bond with the Guru to realise the true feelings, the true message.

    "Follow like sheep" YES. If you have taken someone elses translations. But if this was your own work then you have a mis-understanding of the Gurus message.

    You need to understand what these babe are. These powers are a stepping stone in the path of spirituality. You too will acquire these powers one day. I was just attempting to engage you in a discussion to see your interpretation/understanding. But I note you have already made your mind. I wish you good luck. "Bale Bale" to the cut and paste sikhism.

    As I said, I shall just keep my mouth shut in the future.:shutup: This is perhaps why Gautam Bhudda refused to talk about God. People have read so many books and followed others viewpoints that they have gone astray from the their righteous path. They claim to be the Sikhs of Our Gurus but infact they are the sikhs(students) of those writers whose books they have immersed into. Is that any different from following a worldly Baba. Think about it.

    Bibba ji, dwell a little deeper. If you want to see the SUN. Do not follow every one in the race of catching it in the West. Just stop and turn around. The truth is behind you.

    Sincere apollogies if my neech bhasha has caused you any offence. You have a Good Heart. God Bless you.

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.:cool:
     
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  12. kaur-1

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    Hai Bhi Sach, instead of critising my post why dont you reply to MKAUR1981's original question posted.

    I am not going to waste my time replying to your comments. My opinion still stands regarding Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    I have noticed that most of the time thats all you do, criticise other members replies instead of posting your own.

    MKAUR1981's second post "Nobody wants to share their thoughts and opinions on this?[​IMG]"

    I did my bit, why dont you reply your "thougths and opinions" instead of critising others.
     
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  13. Hai_Bhi_Sach

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    This is certainly not the type of response expected from a Sikh – A Student. You have obviously made up you mind, your God, your principles etc. You have shut the door to progress. You shape your own destiny. It is your own freewill.

    “Mitthat nivi nanka, gunn channgeaaian tatt”

    The seed of sikhi that Guru Nanak Dev ji has sowed is still struggling to sprout.
    Some people are just not destined to know the truth even if it is right in front of them. They will cast doubts.

    I picked on you for a purpose. You are the one who invited me back to the forum. I change my ID and came back. I wanted to see where dear kaur-1 ji stood and I have my reply.

    What I say here is not only applicable on you but to many others like you. Why do you come to this or any other forum. Is it to show your knowledge and wisdom.? Is this not EGO.

    You should come to this forum with an open mind, to learn, not to show your command on Sikhism. Express your view and listen to the others. If there is any misunderstanding then discuss it (Sikhi Sikhya Gur Vichaar). Start with the notion that you may have got it wrong. Only them you will learn. You may not agree it then but you can always come back for clarification. We are not in competition here. We are the students of the same Gurus.

    With my limited command of English knowledge and understanding, I give you my version of visiting the Guru.
    • When you enter the Gurdwara you close your hands (I assume you have washed them and have your head covered). It indicates that one has not come to show your physical power, you are coming in peace. It is synonyms to putting your weapons down.
    • You bows your head as you approach “The Guru”, this is a sign of respect (Nimarta).
    • You stand in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji still with hands closed. Close your eyes and feel the Presence and Visualise the “The Guru, The teacher” consisting of 10 Gurus and 15 Bhagats all sitting together. The souls of 25 spiritually elevated beings backing up their experiences right in front of you. Eagerly waiting for you.
    • With your hands folded and head bowed, you kneel down. This indicates you are submissiveness to The Guru.
    • You put your hands down on the floor and bow touching your head on the floor. This is where you completely surrender to the Guru and are ready to accept his teaching. You are accepting that you are ready to accept “Gurus Mat”.
    • The Guru blesses you(acknowledges you) and you take your seat among other like minded present.
    • You sit and listen to the Bani, Each Guru and Bhagat in turn stands up in front of you and relays their message hemmed in Classical Music. Because it elongates your ability to stay focused in the mood, in which the message is forth coming. They relay their emotions, experiences and teachings to you (through their bani). Giving us a direction, showing us a path to be one with God.
    How blessed we are,. How much our Guru has thought of us. How can you not fall in love with such a Guru who though his “GUR” is showing us the path to God.

    What do we do, we gather the knowledge and come out to preach others. We ourselves do not assimilate the teaching. It is like a blind walking around with a torch of knowledge teaching the other blind who incidently also has a torch of knowledge, showing each other the correct path.

    You can wake a person out his sleep but you cannot awake one that is pretending to sleep. GOOD BYE FORUM. “Sorry to be a Haddi in your Kabab”

    My appologies for wasting your time. Rest asure, this will never happen again.
    It is your problem and not mine if you want to respond or not.

    If I tell you that you are going in a wrong direction. If I prompt you to think again because you are walking around with a blind fold and that you should take it off and think again. Then I am guilty as charged. I apollogised. The problem with the likes of me is that those that come into contact with me I cannot bear to see them falling in a ditch.


    I have already answered in the previous post to you. Read betwwen the lines. The answer is there
    I am sorry I am not an answering machine to sit down to fuel you egos. I shall once again reject membership of this Forum. Good luck to you on your journey. I am Ekmusfair_ajnabi on my journey. Ekmusafir = traveller. Ajnabi = One without identity. You have to loose your identity to be one with him.

    “Jab aapa parsa bissar gya, Jit dekhan tith TU”.

    The difference is that you are yet to follow but I have reached there with the blessings of my Guru.

    Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh
    Ekmusafir_Ajnabi. (Hai_Bhi_Sach):)
     
  14. kaur-1

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    Hai_Bhi_Sach, All the best on your journey. I was expecting a response on MKAUR1981's original post and not this response of yours. Quite disappointed with your view/attitude.

    If you say that you have reached there with the blessings of your Guru then why do you have such negative opinion. All this because I posted Gurbani tuks and that I only have allegiance to Guru Granth Sahib Ji.!!!:confused:
    Oh dear!!!!

    All of us are learners especially me - a mere beginner. A Gursikh is suppose to encourage a learner - a Sikh. But you are doing the opposite.! Whats the matter with you!!!:crazy: I am not going to get pulled in an argument with as you clearly want to start one.

    But one think I wont budge on is my opinion on Guru Granth Sahib ji being our Guru. I would encourage others to post Gurbani and or their understanding of Gurbani. If Gurbani tuks are posted incorrectly or interpreted incorrectly, then I would expect learned members to correct them.

    Back to the original question of this post, my allegiance (and I hope other Sikhs too) will always be to Guru Granth Sahib ji not to Shirdi Sai Baba or this and that Babas. STAY AWAY FROM THEM.
     
  15. vaapaaraa

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    there is only one, this person has no belief in 25 souls as you mentioned. Understanding the Mool mantra, as there is only one and one only, why are you introducing this idea of separateness in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

    Thinking of them as separate souls according to you, the more into illusion a person will fall. Why believe the Guru to be a physical body and having a soul? There is only one Eternal shabad and surat is the disciple.

    all answers are already there in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. The more Guru ji makes one do naam simran, the more that one is revealed hidden mysteries.

    First understanding the simple message of naam simran, rememberance of God, rest of the mysteries will open on their own, if Guru ji wishes. One should remember by your own self, nothing is possible, even naam simran, give up ego of attaining high spiritual states.

    Leaving our own prideful egos, God comes . This is as simple as that.

    Take care. Lets first teach our own selves on being humble, before teaching others. You should also know that many people on this website are new to sikhi, and not as advanced and all knowing as someone wants to test them on.
     
  16. MKAUR1981

    MKAUR1981
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    WJKK WJKF

    What a response. I asked for opinions and thoughts and instead I've got members criticising each other.

    Yes as I a Sikh, and I do not believe in anything else but the Guru Granth Sahib.

    Kaur-1 Your thoughts and opinions are justified as you are more learned in Sikhism and the Guru Granth Sahib than me, therefore you can use Tuks to back them up and I did understand them.

    Naap Jap
    .


    Muslims say the same thing about other religions. So I'm not too convinced with that. However, you said that



    So there's no point in pursing it further with yourself.

    Hai Bhi Sach, for once I think I can understand where you are coming from. (Yes, I do find some of your posts quite patronising at times).

    As Sikhs, we need to have faith in the Guru Granth Sahib, however, does that mean we can't even discuss other "Baba". (Did anyone actually go on to the link?) Would our Guru's have done that? "Oh just go and read your Holy book and follow that". Correct me if I'm wrong did Guru Nanak say that you can study other religions, but only follow Guru Granth Sahib.

    Shirdi Sai Baba is supposed to be an Avatar and his beliefs resembled a lot of what is taught in Sikhism. That is why I posted a thread, so that we could discuss it.

    Bul Chuk Maaf
     
  17. Hai_Bhi_Sach

    Hai_Bhi_Sach
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    Sai Baba and many other miracle performing baba usually tend to be very simle people who may or may not be spiritually advanced people. For some reason, we humans need these kind of people in our day to day life. It gives us a choice between "hard work" following our Gurus Teachings and the soft option of following a miracle performer to achieve our earthly goals. Sai Baba of Sirdi was a simple Sadhu type individual Who through his "Sehaj Subaye" emotion helped a few few people. Roumers spread and popularity hightens. This is no different to an astrologer who happens to give you a right prediction. For you he is a god like personality. You will go out and spread the word and the popularity of this astrologer will grow. Now here he is using an appliance of science but the Baba did even not do anything. He had only blessed the peron with a pure mind and for the ordinary it became a miracle.

    We need to rise above all these issues. It is good for fun but willl not lead prepare you for the journey our Gurus have intended for you. A spiritual person also goes through many phases (duaars ). On the path a spiritual the follower aquires Riddhi and Siddhi's like the Sidhis that Guru Nanak Dev ji confronted many times. The journey of the Sidhis in not the ultimate but it gives one the ability to perform miracles. One who starts to play these games gets so involved that he forgets his way to his spiritual home. These people are no more than magicians. You can perform a Chalissa under certain time constraints and aquire this knowledge/power but it will not get you anywhere.

    Our Gurus have given us a simple "Fool proof" way to reach home. You can make it as complicated as you like thus keep chasing your own tale like a dog. The one who dwells on the path of "prem" need not any miracles. The truth resides within you, search it and discover who you actually are. If you get stuck the your prayer should only be to "God" to show you the path, It should be "God you know what "You" are doing. I deserve the suffering you are giving me but please also give me the strength that I can stay firm with my faith and am able to bear the suffering". We all have to go through the cleansing. We have to pay for our dues. Stay in the "Bhanna" the will of God, Have "Subber" be content with what has been given to you. You will get you just dues. Dukh is the medicine and Sukh is the disease. Dukh and Sukh have to maintain a balance. Too much of one leads to an imbalance. Be broadminded. Live your life by the directions given to us by our Guru "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" and you will one day find your way home. Pakhandi Babas will get you no where. But at the same time do not go around insulting them. Let them live their lives lost in the "Maya" jungle. It is their problem. So let us not laugh at them either.

    I wish you well on your journeys.

    Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa Wahe Guru ji ki Fateh.:) :wah:
     
  18. inder preet

    inder preet
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    there are many true stories regarding sai baba that he was a magician he can do various miracles and few months before one serial was started of shirdi sai baba in which true stories were shown and how sai baba reach to their bhagats and solve there problems but can any one make this thing clear that in todays world also these types of things happen or these are only superstitions or false stories or whether these are the stories for those bhagats who blindly believe and have full faith in sai baba and so they take it as a miracle , i am bit confused for this can anyone tell me the reality and truth.
     
  19. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Sri Guru Granth is the truth


    ਮਃ ੧ ॥
    Mėhlā 1.
    First Mehl:

    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥
    Nānak nirbẖa▫o nirankār hor keṯe rām ravāl.
    O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.

    ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥
    Keṯī▫ā kanĥ kahāṇī▫ā keṯe beḏ bīcẖār.
    There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas.

    ਕੇਤੇ ਨਚਹਿ ਮੰਗਤੇ ਗਿੜਿ ਮੁੜਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥
    Keṯe nacẖėh mangṯe giṛ muṛ pūrėh ṯāl.
    So many beggars dance, spinning around to the beat.

    ਬਾਜਾਰੀ ਬਾਜਾਰ ਮਹਿ ਆਇ ਕਢਹਿ ਬਾਜਾਰ ॥
    Bājārī bājār mėh ā▫e kadẖėh bājār.
    The magicians perform their magic in the market place, creating a false illusion.

    ਗਾਵਹਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਣੀਆ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਆਲ ਪਤਾਲ ॥
    Gāvahi rāje rāṇī▫ā bolėh āl paṯāl.
    They sing as kings and queens, and speak of this and that.

    ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਮੁੰਦੜੇ ਲਖ ਟਕਿਆ ਕੇ ਹਾਰ ॥
    Lakẖ taki▫ā ke munḏ▫ṛe lakẖ taki▫ā ke hār.
    They wear earrings, and necklaces worth thousands of dollars.

    ਜਿਤੁ ਤਨਿ ਪਾਈਅਹਿ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਸੇ ਤਨ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਛਾਰ ॥
    Jiṯ ṯan pā▫ī▫ah nānkā se ṯan hovėh cẖẖār.
    Those bodies on which they are worn, O Nanak, those bodies turn to ashes
     
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  20. muddymick

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    Hello,
    just a small observation and I hope it is in keeping with the thread. In most schools of thought, expression, philosophy and religion. There appears to be division as to what constitutes that way. Some hold by a rigid historic or traditional approach claiming all further development or enquiry cannot by definition belong to that way. I suppose one could say these have a chronological cut off point after which inclusion cannot be considered.
    Others consider a broader canvass of expression seeing some things (although outside the strict chronological tradition) as complimentary or in accord with 'the way'

    Both are problematic, the former can become exclusive and subject to cultural and geo/historical bias. Not having the benefit of comparable systems or fresh invigorating new perspectives.
    The latter can become a sort of spiritual shopping, where one only finds the teachings and teachers that are in accord with our limited perspectives.

    Kaur-1 Ji with respect, could I ask you a few questions?

    When you are suggesting that it is only the Guru Granth Sahib Ji we should follow, are you suggesting that we should only accept that guidance without the interpretation of human agents?

    Do you only study the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, in it's original form?

    How do you reconcile the very real problems of socio/linguistic/historical anomalies in our modern prevalent perceptions and understanding and those prevalent at the time of the Guru's?

    If you do you use translations or commentaries do you think that compromises your original position?

    With regards..:)
     
  21. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    muddyymick ji

    This is an old thread - 6 years old - and it faded into the archives only to be resurrected today.

    Some of your questions will be hard to answer because Kaur-1 rarely visits the forum these days. Her replies represent her impressions at that time.

    I can say with confidence, because she and I correspond from time to time, that about 4 years ago, and that would be about 3 years after the start of the thread, Kaur-1 began a systematic program of Gurbani study in the original Gurmukhi. Her studies later evolved into a full sehaj path (continuous slow reading of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) in which she not only read but researched the meanings of various phrases and words using the works of Sahib Singh and other noted Gurbani scholars.

    Let me take a crack at the remaining issues you raise.

    " just a small observation and I hope it is in keeping with the thread. In most schools of thought, expression, philosophy and religion. There appears to be division as to what constitutes that way."

    I am not sure what you mean by "what constitutes that way" so the division part is not clear to me.


    " Some hold by a rigid historic or traditional approach claiming all further development or enquiry cannot by definition belong to that way. I suppose one could say these have a chronological cut off point after which inclusion cannot be considered."

    I am not sure how the question applies to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I could be missing your point. Enquiry is an obligation for Sikhs. There is no cut-off point for inquiry into Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    The granth itself is complete. The granth was sealed by Guru Gobind Singh in 1708, and closes with the Mundaavi. He added some of the shabads of his father Teg Bahadur. Therefore, nothing was included after that moment in time when the granth was declared the everlasting guru. The declaration precludes "adding" content to Gurbani, and this is very different from instances where scholars might "have a chronological cut-off point after which inclusion cannot be considered."



    "Others consider a broader canvass of expression seeing some things (although outside the strict chronological tradition) as complimentary or in accord with 'the way' "

    There are many ways to look at the "broader canvass of expression" - if I am getting your question regarding "strict chronological tradition" as you intend it. The chronological question is moot because Guru Gobind Singh sealed the Granth. Often the discussion of a right and wrong way to interpret shabads has little to do with orthodox meaning and more to do with internal logical consistency of a reading. You gave some good examples of how that would work in your exploration of the meaning of "amrit" on a different thread. So shabads speaking of a cleansing bath would not be orders to take baths at holy sites on pilgrimage but inspirations to get soaked a different way.

    Both are problematic, the former can become exclusive and subject to cultural and geo/historical bias. Not having the benefit of comparable systems or fresh invigorating new perspectives.

    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was never intended to be exclusively for Sikhs. Guru Nanak spoke to Mulsims, Hindus, Jains, and Christians. Thus, there are those of us who prefer to think of the message of Guru Granth as inclusive not exclusive. That does not however mean that Guru Nanak was integrating teachings from many different religions into a single message. Rather it means he was disclosing a message that could take a devotee beyond the exclusive orthodoxies of his or her particular religion.

    The "fresh invigorating new perspectives" that you speak of are a puzzle to me. I do not know if you mean that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji might open itself up to texts and ideas from newer religions and spiritual movements. Or if you mean there could be fresh interpretations of its shabads. If you would clarify that it would help.


    Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot open itself up to new texts and perspectives because it was sealed in 1708. For example, it cannot be re-categorized as a Vedic text because 'fresh perspectives' have reconsidered its contents. It cannot be rebound with other scriptures - though some have tried. From a different angle, Sikhs are obliged to study and discuss its message, which does open up meanings; it broadens how one applies Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to every day life. So I don't know what you are asking.


    "The latter can become a sort of spiritual shopping, where one only finds the teachings and teachers that are in accord with our limited perspectives."

    Yes. Religious teachers come and go. Spiritual shopping happens all the time. Why not think that many who gathered around Guru Nanak were also shopping, stayed for while, and then went their own way? His own sons listened and then left.

    The Sikh concept of the divine: indivisible timeless and indestructible, it is ajooni saibhang. If that makes sense to a person, then shopping around would not be within the realm of logical possibilities. What would one shop for? What one seeks is everywhere and always.


    You are asking questions that seem simple but are not simple. Perhaps you should break your previous comment down into separate threads, otherwise, this thread will wander into long digressions, and the original issues will be lost to new readers. Thanx.
     
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