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Shabad Guru

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by singhbj, Feb 17, 2008.

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  1. singhbj

    singhbj
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    What is the source of it all? What sustains and protects us? What brings us to union with the Divine? This thread does vichaar of the Shabad Guru, the Word, the Current, the Sound, the Vibration of the One.


    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Why Shabad is called GURU ?

    ਕਵਣ ਮੂਲੁ ਕਵਣ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਲਾ
    कवण मूलु कवण मति वेला ॥
    Kavaṇ mūl kavaṇ maṯ vėlā.
    What is the root, the source of all? What teachings hold for these times?


    ਤੇਰਾ ਕਵਣੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਤੂ ਚੇਲਾ
    तेरा कवणु गुरू जिस का तू चेला ॥
    Ŧėrā kavaṇ gurū jis kā ṯū cẖėlā.
    Who is your guru? Whose disciple are you?

    ਕਵਣ ਕਥਾ ਲੇ ਰਹਹੁ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ
    कवण कथा ले रहहु निराले ॥
    Kavaṇ kathā lė rahhu nirālė.
    What is that speech, by which you remain unattached?

    ਬੋਲੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਬਾਲੇ
    बोलै नानकु सुणहु तुम बाले ॥
    Bolai Nānak suṇhu ṯum bālė.
    Listen to what we say, O Nanak, you little boy.

    ਏਸੁ ਕਥਾ ਕਾ ਦੇਇ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ
    एसु कथा का देइ बीचारु ॥
    Ės kathā kā ḏė*ė bīcẖār.
    Give us your opinion on what we have said.

    ਭਵਜਲੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਲੰਘਾਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੪੩॥
    भवजलु सबदि लंघावणहारु ॥४३॥
    Bẖavjal sabaḏ langẖāvaṇhār. ||43||
    How can the Shabad carry us across the terrifying world-ocean?" ||43||

    ਪਵਨ ਅਰੰਭੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਲਾ
    पवन अर्मभु सतिगुर मति वेला ॥
    Pavan arambẖ saṯgur maṯ vėlā.
    From the air came the beginning. This is the age of the True Guru's Teachings.

    ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ
    सबदु गुरू सुरति धुनि चेला ॥
    Sabaḏ gurū suraṯ ḏẖun cẖėlā.
    The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple.

    ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਲੇ ਰਹਉ ਨਿਰਾਲਾ
    अकथ कथा ले रहउ निराला ॥
    Akath kathā lė raha*o nirālā.
    Speaking the Unspoken Speech, I remain unattached.

    ਨਾਨਕ ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਪਾਲਾ
    नानक जुगि जुगि गुर गोपाला ॥
    Nānak jug jug gur gopālā.
    O Nanak, throughout the ages, the Lord of the World is my Guru.
    Source: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
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    #1 singhbj, Feb 17, 2008
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  3. singhbj

    singhbj
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    Why Shabad Guru ?

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Why Shabad Guru ?
    Is there any specific Shabad which is called as GURU ?

    ਅਸੰਖ ਨਾਵ ਅਸੰਖ ਥਾਵ
    असंख नाव असंख थाव ॥
    Asaʼnkẖ nāv asaʼnkẖ thāv.
    Countless names, countless places.

    ਅਗੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ ਅਸੰਖ ਲੋਅ
    अगम अगम असंख लोअ ॥
    Agamm agamm asaʼnkẖ lo­a.
    Inaccessible, unapproachable, countless celestial realms.

    ਅਸੰਖ ਕਹਹਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰੁ ਹੋਇ
    असंख कहहि सिरि भारु होइ ॥
    Asaʼnkẖ kehahi sir bẖār ho­ė.
    Even to call them countless is to carry the weight on your head.

    ਅਖਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖਰੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ
    अखरी नामु अखरी सालाह ॥
    Akẖrī nām akẖrī sālāh.
    From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.

    ਅਖਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਗੀਤ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਹ
    अखरी गिआनु गीत गुण गाह ॥
    Akẖrī gi­ān gīṯ guṇ gāh.
    From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory.

    ਅਖਰੀ ਲਿਖਣੁ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਬਾਣਿ
    अखरी लिखणु बोलणु बाणि ॥
    Akẖrī likẖaṇ bolaṇ bāṇ.
    From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns.

    ਅਖਰਾ ਸਿਰਿ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਖਾਣਿ
    अखरा सिरि संजोगु वखाणि ॥
    Akẖrā sir sanjog vakẖāṇ.
    From the Word, comes destiny, written on one's forehead.

    ਜਿਨਿ ਏਹਿ ਲਿਖੇ ਤਿਸੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਨਾਹਿ
    जिनि एहि लिखे तिसु सिरि नाहि ॥
    Jin ėhi likẖė ṯis sir nāhi.
    But the One who wrote these Words of Destiny-no words are written on His Forehead.

    ਜਿਵ ਫੁਰਮਾਏ ਤਿਵ ਤਿਵ ਪਾਹਿ
    जिव फुरमाए तिव तिव पाहि ॥
    Jiv furmā­ė ṯiv ṯiv pāhi.
    As He ordains, so do we receive.

    ਜੇਤਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਤੇਤਾ ਨਾਉ
    जेता कीता तेता नाउ ॥
    Jėṯā kīṯā ṯėṯā nā­o.
    The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name.

    ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਥਾਉ
    विणु नावै नाही को थाउ ॥
    viṇ nāvai nāhī ko thā­o.
    Without Your Name, there is no place at all.

    ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਵਣ ਕਹਾ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
    कुदरति कवण कहा वीचारु ॥
    Kuḏraṯ kavaṇ kahā vīcẖār.
    How can I describe Your Creative Power?

    ਵਾਰਿਆ ਜਾਵਾ ਏਕ ਵਾਰ
    वारिआ न जावा एक वार ॥
    vāri­ā na jāvā ėk vār.
    I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.

    ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਕਾਰ
    जो तुधु भावै साई भली कार ॥
    Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā­ī bẖalī kār.
    Whatever pleases You is the only good done,

    ਤੂ ਸਦਾ ਸਲਾਮਤਿ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ॥੧੯॥
    तू सदा सलामति निरंकार ॥१९॥
    Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||19||
    You, Eternal and Formless One. ||19||

    Source: Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib


    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
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    #2 singhbj, Feb 17, 2008
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  4. singhbj

    singhbj
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    Shabad Guru Granth Sahib jeeo

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Guru Gobind Singh Ji established GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEEO as eternal Guru.

    1.
    "Aagya Bhayi Akal Ki Tabee Chalayo Panth"
    As was ordained by the Timeless, thus was established the Panth

    "Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth"
    To all Sikhs, let this be the order, recognize the Granth as your Guru

    "Guru Granth Ji Maniyo Pragat Guran Ki Deh"
    The reverend Guru Granth is the visible body of the gurus

    "Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Meh Leh"
    Those that seek to meet with Vaaheguru, delve into the Shabad

    Source: Dohraa is Guru Gobind Singh Ji's pavitar bachan recorded in Bhai Prahlaad Singh ji's Rehitnama

    2.
    "jo gur kaa sikh akhaaeae athae shabadh gra(n)thh saahib jee dhaa guroo karakae naa ma(n)nae aapanee maaeiaa dhae ha(n)kaar vich galathaan rehae"

    One who claims to be a Sikh of the Guru, but does not accept the Guru Granth Sahib jeeo as Guru; they will forever remain deluded by their egotistical attachment to Maayaa.

    Source: Rehitnama-Bhai Chaupaa Singh Ji

    3.
    "pavan guroo gur shabadh hai raag naadh vichaaraa||"
    The basis of the world is air (the mixture of gases) and Sabad (Word) is the Guru of all knowledge from which flow further all thoughts, music and attendant sounds.

    "maath pithaa jal dhharath hai outhapath sa(n)saaraa||"
    Mother and father are the creative forces in the form of earth and water.

    "dhaaee dhaaeiaa raath dhio varathae varathaaraa||"
    Night and day are the nurses who nurse for the creatures and this way the whole system goes on operating.

    "shiv shakathee dhaa khael mael parakirath pasaaraa||"
    With the combination of Siva (the consciousness) and Sakti (the inert nature) this whole world comes into being.

    "paarabreham pooran breham ghatt cha(n)dhr akaaraa||"
    The transcendental perfect Lord is permeating through all as the same moon in the sky is visualised in all the pitchers of water.

    "aapae aap varathadhaa guramukh niradhhaaraa ||aa||"
    That Lord beyond all the sustenances is the sustenance for the gurmukhs and He alone operates through all.

    Source: Vaars Bhai Gurdaas ji -2

    Waheguru ji ka khalsa
    Waheguru ji ki fateh
     
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  5. seeker3k

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    This word Shabad guru. It is most misunderstood by every one. It is true the real guru is Shabad Naam, but what is Shabad? Shabad = word = sound=dhun. Wors is spoken that make sound by mouth or music.There is one sound dhun that is going in side of every one. This dhun is what sadhus and yogis talking about. The sound is A frequency that travel from A to Z .Lets look at the frequencies: there is AM,FM Short wave. Each wave can only travel limited distance. It is also energy. In the beginning there was word Dhun.
    True Naam,Shabad can only be given by true Guru. “Gurparsad” as stated in Guru Granth.What is gurparsad? The difference in parsad and bhiksha is parsad is given with out asking.bhiksha is when one ask for it. The word,shabad,naam,mantar has to be given by living guru. Living guru is not living by our saying he has to be walking talking person.Only from his mouth the naam shabad has to come out by his own wish not by us asking for it.If you look into all the sects like: radha suami narnkari or hindu guru they all make you ask for it. After you receive the naam there is no reciting or any other ritual to be performed. Read the Granth it is full of examples of what I am saying. The naam is not waheguru as it is stated by us. At the time of Nanak the word waheguru was not there.There was no gurmukhi lipi then it was devnagri or brijbhasha as some states.
    The first word in the Grangth ek om is not what Nanak wrote because there was no Gurmukhi. In Hindi or Sanskrit it was and is only Om not ek om.Hindus never said the Om is god all they said the Om is a naam mantar. But not God. It is us , we say it is God.
    If the stone idol cant be guru then book cant be guru too. Did Nanak knew one day the book of his writing be guru? If so then why he did not complete the book and told his followers accept it a guru. Nanak preached against the idol worship I am sure he will not approve the book worship. If any one wish to discuss more write me at
    tuth3k@gmail.com
     
  6. pk70

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    The first word in the Grangth ek om is not what Nanak wrote because there was no Gurmukhi. In Hindi or Sanskrit it was and is only Om not ek om.Hindus never said the Om is god all they said the Om is a naam mantar. But not God. It is us , we say it is God.
    If the stone idol cant be Guru then book cant be Guru too. Did Nanak knew one day the book of his writing be Guru? If so then why he did not complete the book and told his followers accept it a Guru. Nanak preached against the idol worship I am sure he will not approve the book worship. If any one wish to discuss more write me at( quote seeker3k)

    Third Nanak states that Bani is the Guru, the worship of the Guru is not all about a physical show of respect but literally living Guru Teachings. If that is not done, I don’t understand how Guru can be respected. What Guru Nanak knew only he knew, you and I cannot guess about it. Whatever is passed on to us is passed through Guru Arjan Dev ji who knew about what Guru Nanak wrote, so kindly do not guess on that either. People are different, the way they show respect also differs; only commenting one side of story takes you know where. For us, Sree Guru Granth Sahib is more than “Granth”
     
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  7. dalbirk

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    Seeker3k Ji ,Kindly go through the following post with a clear slate ( State ) of mind . I hope it will help clearing some of ur doubts :
    Sikh Articles - True Living Guru

    By: Bijla Singh
    The True Guru in this world, according to the Sikh faithful, is only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In order to undermine and destroy the principles of Sikhi and the true message of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Indian government has sent many of its operatives to Punjab claiming to pose as true Gurus. The purpose of this article is to explain the true concept of the True Guru Ji and to explain how Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only true Guru.
    The word “Guru” is combination of two words Gu meaning Darkness and Ru meaning Light. So literally, Guru means “The Light that dispels darkness.” The light is divine knowledge. The light is the Word. The Word is the true nature of Akal Purakh (God) Himself. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was imbued with the Jot of the Akal Purakh to fulfill the latter’s will and mission in this Kal Age.
    ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਰੂਪ ॥8॥1॥
    “Guru Nanak is embodiment of the Light of God.” (SGGSJ, Ang 1192)
    When Guru Nanak conferred Guruship on Bhai Lehna (later called Guru Angad), the same Jot or light was passed on and Guru Angad too became the embodiment of the Divine Light. In the same way, the Divine Light was passed to all the nine Gurus. They were all the repositories of the Divine Light.
    ਜੋਤਿ ਓਹਾ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਸਾਇ ਸਹਿ ਕਾਇਆ ਫੇਰਿ ਪਲਟੀਐ ॥
    They shared the One Light and the same way; the King just changed His body. (SGGSJ, Ang 966)

    ਥਾਪਿਆ ਲਹਿਣਾ ਜੀਂਵਦੇ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਸਿਰ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਫਿਰਾਯਾ॥
    ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤ ਮਿਲਾਇਕੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੂਪ ਵਟਾਯਾ॥
    ਲਖ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸਕਈ ਆਚਰਜੇ ਆਚਰਜ ਦਿਖਾਯਾ॥
    ਕਾਯਾਂ ਪਲਟ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਯਾ ॥45॥

    During his life time he waved the canopy of Guru seat on the head of Lahina (Guru Angad) and merged his own light into him. Guru Nanak now transformed himself. This mystery is incomprehensible for anybody that awe-inspiring (Nanak) accomplished a wonderful task. He converted (his body) into a new form. (Bhai Gurdas Ji)

    In order for a person to be liberated from this life he/she must follow the teachings of a true Guru. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, as the true Guru, came to this world to dispel the darkness of ignorance and to diffuse the light of knowledge everywhere.
    ਝਝੈ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਝੂਰਹਿ ਮੂੜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਿ ਤੂੰ ਵਿਖਾ ॥
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ਨਿਗੁਰੇ ਕਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਉ ਬੁਰਾ ॥13॥

    Jhajha: You shall never have to regret and repent, you fool, if you listen to the Teachings of the True Guru, for even an instant. Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation. ||13|| (SGGSJ, Ang 435)

    ਜੇ ਸਉ ਚੰਦਾ ਉਗਵਹਿ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜਹਿ ਹਜਾਰ ॥
    ਏਤੇ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਦਿਆਂ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰ ॥2॥

    If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared, even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2|| (SGGSJ, Ang 463)

    ਸਭ ਤੇ ਵਡਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਕਲ ਰਾਖੀ ਮੇਰੀ ॥4॥10॥57॥
    Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. (SGGSJ, Ang 750)
    ਜਗਤੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਉ ॥2॥
    Guru Nanak is the Guru of the entire humanity of the world. (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaar 23)
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਮਿਟੀ ਧੁੰਧ ਜਗ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਆ॥
    ਜਿਉਂ ਕਰ ਸੂਰਜ ਨਿਕਲਿਆ ਤਾਰੇ ਛਪੇ ਅੰਧੇਰ ਪਲੋਆ॥

    With the emergence of the true Guru Nanak, the mist cleared and the light scattered all around. As if at the sun rise the stars disappeared and the darkness dispelled. (Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaar 1)

    False Propaganda
    There are countless fake living gurus in Punjab funded by Indian government to mislead uneducated people. Radha Swamis, Nirankaris (called Narakdharis by Sikhs), Noormahals, Sacha Sauda, Naamdharis and Gobind Sadan are well knows cults in Punjab and India that attacks Sikhi. Their goal is to break Sikhs away from the true teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Although all of them have different way of spreading their propaganda but they share same opinions regarding Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sikh code of conduct. These fake gurus keep saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji at their congregations, read Gurbani and misinterpret it. An uneducated person with no understanding of the true message of Guru Granth Sahib Ji easily starts believing in the twisted and false meanings. Gurbani is misinterpreted to suit their own needs, to make people believe that Gurbani rejects the idea of keeping unshorn hair and taking Amrit is optional. All these fake gurus use Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and replace the word "Nanak" with their own name to mislead people into thinking that it is their message. To further mislead the people, the so called 'naam' or a special name is given to the followers and they are required to meditate upon it everyday. This special mantra is a mixture of different words. Some words are taken from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and others from Hinduism. An example of such mantra would be "Satnam, O-ang So-hang, Run Mun, Jhun Jhun."
    Having no real message of their own, they resort to falsehood and counterfeit. They appear as swans but like a crow that opens his mouth, he soon becomes apparent to all to be just a crow. When their followers get married they bring Guru Granth Sahib Ji at their homes and take rounds around it. Why don’t they circumambulate around their human gurus? Why do they even bother doing so in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji? The answer is simple. It is a game of deception pure and simple to deceive the public into a false sense of security. Soon their true motives become apparent to an independent observer. On all occasions such as the dedication of a new house, celebration of a birthday and other special life events, they bring Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in their houses. Why bother carrying on such hypocrisy?
    The so-called human gurus are nothing more than bunch of greedy dogs that left homes to make quick money by misleading people. Most of these human gurus come from poor families who used to work in auto shops or as security guards at shopping centers. Some of the main excuses made by these pathetic human gurus are that they left their homes, children and wives just to spread the message of truth. These comments turn out contradictory when these human gurus open up their camps where donations are accepted from thousands of ignorant followers. Not only that, keeping young girls at their camps is a common practice for them which is a good deal for a lustful person who traded one woman (wife) with so many.
    Majority of the living gurus have taken a simple yet dangerous approach to destabilize the Sikh community. They preach that they follow all of the Ten Gurus but do not believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the true Guru. Need of a living human guru is greatly stressed and emphasized by them. To support their argument they use many quotes from Gurbani and provide false meanings to the listeners. They look at Guru Granth Sahib as "another religious book" that they keep in their libraries just like Quran and Geeta. According to them, the guruship was never passed on to the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They allow their followers to eat meat, choice to keep or cut hair, drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes. These are the tactics used to attract large gatherings at their congregations. People are given full scale freedom to do whatever they want. On one hand the followers are given the choice of keeping hair or to wear turban but on the other hand the human guru is always in the identity of a Sikh. He keeps hair and wears a turban. This is one of the deceiving acts to mislead people into believe that what he is teaching is actually part of Sikh religion. Keeping Kirpan (Sword - A Sikh symbol) is not allowed no matter what. This type of ridiculous teaching takes people away from living like Saint-Soldier to living like an alcoholic. People lose faith in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    True Guru vs. Human Guru
    The True Guru of the Sikhs is the Word or Gurbani. The tenth Master, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, conferred the Guruship on Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Holy Scripture), which too became the embodiment of Divine Light for all time. The complete essence, knowledge and power of the Divine Light is therefore enshrined and preserved in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and is the Living Guru for all time. For the Sikhs, the Guru Granth is the manifestation of the Gurus’ Spirit and through it; the true Satguru lives on in the Sikh Faith. In the Kaljug, only Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was to be the only True Guru having emanated from the Akal Purakh. Sikhs believe in the “Word” as the Guru. The Word is eternal. The true word is Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

    ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥
    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. (SGGSJ, Ang 982)

    ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is. (SGGSJ, Ang 515)

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (SGGSJ, Ang 308)

    Furthermore, the true living Guru is out of the cycle of death and birth which is one of the many qualities of the true guru.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
    My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go. (SGGSJ, Ang 759)

    Then how can a human guru liberate others when he himself is in the cycle of death and birth? His physical body which he claims as the guru is perishable. After one human dies the followers start following another person as the "true" guru. This cycle goes on.
    Guru Gobind Singh Ji, having established the baptism of the double-edged sword, established the Khalsa Panth and brought to a full circle the mission of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and saying: “Khalsa is my self-image and I live wherever Khalsa lives.”
    ਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
    My Guru is always with me, near at hand. (SGGSJ, Ang 394)


    This is very profound and unique and has far-reaching implications. The True Guru will always live in body, mind and spirit with His Sikh so long as the latter remains attached with the True Guru’s hukam of maintaining the outer form graciously bestowed at the time of Amrit and actively culturing the inner form via the study, singing and recitation of Gurbani and through Naam Simran.
    The so-called dehdharee or, bodies maintaining the form of a guru, claim to be the true gurus. What if their followers living in America need help? How would they help them? Their body is worshipped as the Guru and the latter physically cannot be at two places at the same time. How is the human guru with his followers all the time? Their followers are out of luck.
    ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
    There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate. (SGGSJ, Ang 646)

    Since there can only be one true Guru (Guru Granth Sahib Ji) the living human guru is automatically false because Guru Granth Sahib Ji has been the Guru of Sikhs since 1708 and all the fake living gurus cropped up in last few decades. If the human guru can be the True Guru, then there is a lot of competition in the Punjab. Over 300 cults and sects claim to be ‘The One’. Within the Radha Swamis, there are numerous gurus and lineages, the latest count being over twenty. Hence, they can’t all be the ‘One True Guru’ can they? Which one is the real one?
    The message of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for every single human being on earth. Everyone is accepted in the house of Guru Nanak. There is no limit to anyone. Anyone has equal rights to be initiated in the Sikh religion by taking Amrit and following the rehat. Khanday-Di-Pahul was started by Guru Gobind Singh Ji who gave authority of initiating people into the Khalsa fold to Panj Pyare. Any able-bodied, sound-minded and rehetwale Sikhs could perform this seva and indeed history is replete with names of Sikhs who have done.
    On the other hand, the fake guru gives his mantar secretly by whispering in the ear. Then he tells his followers not to pass it on otherwise they will get leprosy or some other disease. But if his mantar is the ‘True Mantar’ and is of such great benefit that it supposedly takes one to heaven, then how can be it associated with such an ill curse? This is but a scare tactic to maintain control over the mind of followers and that is all! Being a false utterance, it has never come to pass, ever! How is the guru so exclusive that, having passed it to thousands of people, he has not contracted a disease? If passing on this 'mantra' brings many ill diseases then why doesn't the next successor get infected with leprosy or other diseases? Another point to be mentioned is that these so-called gurus do not give their mantar to disabled people because they say disabled people cannot go to heaven and their mantar is not meant for them. The real reason is the notion that many disabled people being disadvantaged financially cannot contribute them donations so easily. They keep them at bay with this homemade excuse. However this is in stark contrast to the works of the Sikh Gurus. Everybody is welcome and anybody can take Amrit and become Sikh. In fact many have been cured of their disabilities that have done so.
    Guru Gobind Singh gave His self-image to the Khalsa Panth. He and His Sikhs were one and equal to the other. There is no deeper example of love and humility then there was between Guru Gobind Singh and His Sikhs and vice versa. On the other hand, the living gurus hold themselves superior and above their followers. How can they begin to compare themselves to the greatest of all, Guru Gobind Singh Ji? How dare they? They are not even equal to the dust of Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s Sikhs’ feet.
    Guru Arjan Dev Ji sat on hot iron plate and was tortured for five days but always smiled. On the other hand, living gurus can’t even stand in the hot sun and have their followers bring them to an air-conditioned Mercedes Benz. There is no comparison.

    Question Answers
    Now, let us examine other angles of this issue. The human gurus have spread so many lies about Sikh religion. Here we look at some of the major points used by them to attack Sikhi.
    1) Guru Granth Sahib is not the true Guru. Rather it is a book of guidance which can only be understood through a human guru. This is fully supported by Guru Gobind Singh Ji:
    ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਮਾਨਿਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਗੁਰਾ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ॥
    Answer: It is only ignorance and stupidity on their part to take one line and use it out of context. Reading the whole hymn the true purpose becomes crystal clear. They should read the next line which refutes their argument altogether.
    ਆਗਿਆ ਭਈ ਅਕਾਲ ਕੀ ਤਬੈ ਚਲਾਇਓ ਪੰਥ ॥
    ਸਬ ਸਿਖਨ ਕੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਾਨਿਓ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ॥
    ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਮਾਨਿਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਗੁਰਾ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ॥
    ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਿਯੋ ਚਹੈ ਖੋਜ ਸਬਦ ਮੈ ਲੇਹਿ ॥

    This literally translates to: By the will of Waheguru (God) Khalsa Panth was established. All of the Sikhs are to follow Guru Granth Sahib as their final Guru. Following the Granth Sahib, one will be able to see the true spiritual embodiment of all ten Gurus. Whosoever seeks to find the Almighty Waheguru must search Him in the Word of Granth Sahib.
    The word "Hukam" is a direct order not only to accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Guru incarnate but to accept that, in character with the definition and substance of Guru is also Illuminator of the darkness of mind, body and soul. Sikhs chant this in unison at the end of all programs today. Cults, disfiguring the message of the True Guru, vying for and misleading the attention of innocents, blatantly ignore Guru Ji’s order and install a human succession of gurus. They cleverly claim to follow all ten Gurus yet do not accept the ‘living word’ within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the true Guru. They say a human spiritual leader is required. They live a great lie.
    To suit their purposes they conveniently ignore the order of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The true meaning of ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਮਾਨਿਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਗੁਰਾ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ॥ ‘Guru Granth Ji Maniyo, pargat Guran kee deh’ commands all Sikhs to recognize the Guru Granth and that the latter is the spiritual embodiment of all the previous Gurus right up to Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The cultists quote “Deh” being separate completely out of context by emphasizing that it refers to a human Guru but nothing could be further from the truth. Guru being Jot, being dispeller of darkness will manifest manifold inwards and outwards till a transformation occurs as quoted so eloquently by Guru Ji himself:
    ਖਾਲਸਾ ਮੇਰੋ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਖਾਸ ॥ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਮਹਿ ਹੌ ਕਰੌ ਨਿਵਾਸ ॥
    Khalsa is my self-image. I reside where ever there is Khalsa.
    As if to cement this concept further the next line says:
    ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਿਯੋ ਚਹੈ ਖੋਜ ਸਬਦ ਮੈ ਲੇਹਿ ॥
    “Jo Prabh Ko Mileyo Chahay, Khoj Shabad Mein Leh”. It means whoever seeks to meet God must search the “Shabad”. How, in the face of these instructions can people claim their human guru to be true? How can anyone claiming to be a Sikh even conceive of deviating from these instructions? Guru Gobind Singh Ji clearly said Shabad is the true Guru. The above lines prove it without any doubt. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji passed Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, He bowed and listened to whole Guru Granth Sahib Ji in one sitting. The practice of respecting Gurbani started from Guru Nanak Dev Ji. How can one claiming to respect the first ten Gurus then not respect and abide by Gurbani, the every instructions of the same former?
    ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥
    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. (SGGSJ, Ang 982)
    Now, the third Guru composed the above lines. He was one of the ten Gurus they profess to believe in. It goes without saying that if one professes belief in the ten Gurus, then one also follows the teachings they left behind. Following their teaching is following the word and spirit of Gurbani. Following the word leads to the ‘Word Incarnate’.
    Thus following the Guru Granth Sahib Ji will mean one is following the will of the ‘Divine Light’ and that the essence of the ten and the former are one and the same. Thus what these false groups profess rings hallow and false. Many historical texts prove beyond the doubt that following Guru Granth Sahib is the only way in Sikhi. Guru Gobind Singh Ji referred to Guru Granth Sahib Ji as His second image.
    ਦੂਸਰ ਰੂਪ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਾਨਹੁ । ਆਪਨ ਅੰਗ ਮੇਰੇ ਕਰ ਮਾਨਹੁ ।
    ਰੋਮ ਰੋਮ ਅੱਛਰ ਸੋ ਲਹਹੁ । ਬਾਤ ਜਥਾਰਥ ਤੁਮ ਸੋਂ ਕਹਹੁੰ ।
    ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੀ ਚਾਹਿ । ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕਰੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਆਹਿ ।…
    ਜੋ ਮਮ ਸਾਥ ਚਹੇ ਕਰਿ ਬਾਤ । ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਹਿ ਸਾਥ ।
    ਜੋ ਮੁਝ ਬਚਨ ਸੁਨਨ ਕੀ ਚਾਹਿ । ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਇ ।
    ਮੇਰਾ ਰੂਪ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜੀ ਜਾਨ । ਇਸ ਮੇਂ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਰੰਚਕ ਮਾਨ ।
    ਤੀਸਰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਖ ਹੈ ਮੋਰ । ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਰਤਿ ਜਿਹ ਨਿਸ ਭੋਰ । (ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ)

    “The Granth is my second self and should be taken as such for me. A Sikh who wants to see me should a look at the Granth Sahib. One who wishes to talk to me should read the Granth and contemplate over it. One who is anxious to listen to me talk, he or she should read the Granth Sahib and listen to its recitation with attention. Consider the Granth as my own self. Have not the least doubt about it.”
    ਪ੍ਰਤਖਯ ਕਲਾ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਧਣੀ ਛੈ, ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਰਤੰਤਾ ।
    ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਫਤਿਹ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ, ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਗੁਰ ਰੂਪ ਬਦੰਤਾ । (ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ)


    ਮੌਰ ਬਚਨ ਸੋ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਯਾਰਾ । ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤੁ ਹੌ ਰੱਛਕ ਥਾਰਾ ।
    ਝੂਠੇ ਸਰਬ ਉਪਾਵ ਤਿਆਗਹੁ । ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਧੁਜ ਕੀ ਚਰਨੀ ਲਾਗਹੁ ।
    ਪੋਥੀ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਮਹਲ ਦਸ ਬਾਨੀ । ਸੋਧ ਲਹੋ ਪਦ ਜੋ ਨਿਰਬਾਨੀ ।
    ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮਰਹੁ ਬਰ ਬੁਧਾ । ਖਲ ਦਲ ਸਾਥ ਕਰਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਜੁੱਧਾ ।
    (ਗੁਰ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ 10, ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ)


    2) Taking Amrit is not necessary. One's mind has to be clean.
    Answer: Guru Gobind Singh Ji changed the Charan Pahul to Khade- ki-Pahul. He Himself partook of the same Khande-ki-Pahul by kneeling down in front of Panj Pyare (Five Beloved Ones). The previous Gurus all partook of Charan Pahul. Why do the deydharee people avoid taking Khande-ki-Pahul? Why do they not take Amrit? If they are following, first ten Gurus then why not take Amrit since all ten Gurus practiced it? The greatest of all Guru Gobind Singh Ji took Amrit. My question is, was His mind not clean? What are they even thinking by saying this? Numerous quotes from Gurbani, Rehatnamas and other historical texts are provided below to prove that Amrit is must for a Sikh.
    ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਸਦਾ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਅਨਦ ਅਨੰਤਾ ॥
    So drink in forever the Ambrosial Nectar; may you live long, and may the meditative remembrance of the Lord give you infinite delight. (SGGSJ, Ang 496)
    ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਮਿਲਿ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥
    The treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is Ambrosial Nectar; meet together and drink it in, O Siblings of Destiny. (SGGSJ, Ang 318)

    ਸਭ ਦੇਸਨ ਕੋ ਹੁਕਮ ਪਠਾਇਆ । ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਫੁਰਮਾਯਾ ।
    ‘ਸਿੰਘ’ ਸੰਙਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਬੁਲਾਵੋ । ਜਪੋ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਵੋ ।
    ਅਚਰਜ ਬੀਰ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕੀਆ । ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਦੋਨੋ ਤਿਨ ਦੀਆ ।
    (ਮਹਿਮਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼, ਬਾਵਾ ਸਵਰੂਪ ਚੰਦ)

    ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਰਹਤ ਯਹ ਜਾਨ, ਖੰਡੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਛਕੇ । ਸੋਈ ਸਿੰਘ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨ, ਅਵਰ ਨ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਜੋ ਲਏ ।
    ਪਾਂਚ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੋ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੇਵੈਂ । ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਸਿਰ ਧਰਿ ਛਕਿ ਪੁਨ ਲੇਵੈ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਸਿਖ ਲੇਇ, ਰਹਤ ਕਮਾਵਹਿ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ।
    ਜੋ ਬੇੜਾ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਿਆ, ਔਰ ਨ ਭਰਮਹਿ ਪੰਥ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਜੋ ਕੋਊ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਲੇ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ । (ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਸੌ ਸਾਖੀ, 63)
    ਪੀਵਹੁ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇਧਾਰ ਹੋਇ ਜਨਮ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ।
    ਗੁਰ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ ਮਨਮੁਖੀ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ । (ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ)


    3) There is no need to keep hair since it is written in Guru Granth Sahib:
    ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥25॥
    You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25|| (SGGSJ, Ang 1365)

    Answer: This Saloak of Bhagat Kabir Ji neither condemns nor sees any loss in keeping hair. What Kabeer Ji really means is that if one does not fall in love with Waheguru (God) then keeping or cutting hair is of no importance. During Kabeer Ji's time there was no Khalsa Panth therefore Kabeer Ji is speaking to those who kept hair but never combed or clean them. Instead they kept matted hair and let their hair turn into knots which became a blind ritual. Instead of treating hair as gift of God they disrespected their hair. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also spoke against such rituals in His Bani:
    ਜਟਾ ਨ ਸੀਸ ਧਾਰਿਹੋਂ ॥ ਨ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਕਾ ਸੁਧਾਰਿਹੋਂ ॥
    I do not wear matted hair on my head, nor do I put rings in my ears. (Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Akal Ustat)
    Those who fall in love with Waheguru accept the way He has created them and do not alter His creation. Waheguru has decorated this beautiful body with hair. In Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Waheguru Himself is depicted as having long hair.
    ਕੇਸਾ ਕਾ ਕਰਿ ਚਵਰੁ ਢੁਲਾਵਾ ਚਰਣ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਈ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    I make my hair into a fan, and wave it over them; I apply the dust of their feet to my face. ||1||Pause|| (SGGSJ, Ang 749)

    ਤੇਰੇ ਬੰਕੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਦੰਤ ਰੀਸਾਲਾ ॥ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਨਕ ਜਿਨ ਲੰਮੜੇ ਵਾਲਾ ॥
    Your eyes are so beautiful, and Your teeth are delightful. Your nose is so graceful, and Your hair is so long. (SGGSJ, Ang 566)
    ਸਗਲ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਅਸਟ ਸਿਧਿ ਨਾਮ ਮਹਾ ਰਸ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਭਏ ਕੇਸਵਾ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਹਿ ॥4॥
    All wealth, and the eight miraculous spiritual powers are in the supremely sublime essence of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. Those humble beings, with whom the beautifully-haired Lord is thoroughly pleased, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4|| (SGGSJ, Ang 203)

    In the above verse the word "Kesva" is used for Waheguru with long hair. Many human living gurus misinterpret it as it refers to Hindu lord Krishna. This is only stupidity on their part. In many other hymns the same word is used for Waheguru and Krishna is nowhere mentioned.
    ਆਉ ਕਲੰਦਰ ਕੇਸਵਾ ॥
    Come, O Lord of beautiful hair. (SGGSJ, Ang 1167)

    ਲੋਭ ਲਹਰਿ ਅਤਿ ਨੀਝਰ ਬਾਜੈ ॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਡੂਬੈ ਕੇਸਵਾ ॥1॥
    ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਮੁੰਦੇ ਤਾਰਿ ਗੁੋਬਿੰਦੇ ॥ ਤਾਰਿ ਲੈ ਬਾਪ ਬੀਠੁਲਾ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

    The tidal waves of greed constantly assault me. My body is drowning, O Lord. ||1|| Please carry me across the world-ocean, O Lord of the Universe. Carry me across, O Beloved Father. ||1||Pause|| (SGGSJ, Ang 1196)

    Following quotes are taken from many acceptable sources in Sikhism.

    ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸਬ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ । ਤਬ ਹੀ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹਿ ਬਨਾਈ ।
    ਤਨ ਇਸ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਜੁ ਦੀਨੋ । ਸੋ ਇਹ ਤਨ ਸਿੰਗਾਰਹਿ ਕੀਨੋ ।
    ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਮੁਛ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਬਨਾਈ । ਹੈ ਇਹ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹ ਜਿਹ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਰਜ਼ਾਈ ।
    ਮੇਟਿ ਰਜ਼ਾਇ ਜੁ ਸੀਸ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ । ਕਹੁ ਤੇ ਜਗ ਕੈਸੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਵੈ ।…
    ਬਸਨ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੇ । ਕੇਸਨ ਬਿਨ ਨਰ ਹੋਇ ਤੈਸੇ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)


    ਪਾਂਚ ਕੀ ਕੁਸੰਗਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਸੰਗਤ ਸੋਂ ਪ੍ਰੀਤੀ ਕਰੈ,
    ਦਯਾ ਔਰ ਧਰਮ ਧਾਰਿ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਸਬ ਲਾਲਸਾ ।
    ਹੁੱਕਾ ਨਾ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੀਸ ਦਾੜ੍ਹੀ ਨਾ ਮੁੰਡਾਵੈ, ਸੋ ਤੋ
    ਵਾਹ ਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ।
    (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਸੋਭਾ, ਸੈਣ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਛਾਪ ਸਿਰ ਕੇਸ ਕੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਦੇਇ ਉਤਾਰ ਸੋ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਜਾਨੋ ।
    ਬੇਟੇ ਕੋ ਬੰਧ ਕੋ ਛਾਪ ਮੁੰਡਾਵਿਤ ਜਮ ਦੁਖ ਭੋਗ ਕੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਪਛਾਨੋ । (ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਸੌ ਸਾਖੀ)

    ਨਾਈ ਦਾ ਹਥ ਸੀਸ ਚਿਹਰੇ ਨ ਲਗਣਾ ਪਾਵੈ ।
    ਕੇਸਾਧਾਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾ ਪੰਥ ਕਹਾਵੈ ।
    ਪਾਹੁ ਲਾਇਕੇ ਰੰਗ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਇਆ ।
    ਪਾਹੁ ਬਣੀ ਪਾਹੁਲ, ਰੰਗ ਕੇਸ ਬਣਾਇਆ ।
    (ਬੰਸਾਵਲੀ ਨਾਮਾ, ਭਾਈ ਕੇਸਰ ਸਿੰਘ)


    ਬਿਨਾ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਕੇਸੰ ਨਰੰ ਭੇਡ ਜਾਨੋ । ਗਹੇ ਕਾਨ ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਕਿਤੈ ਲੈ ਸਿਧਾਨੋ ।
    ਇਹੈ ਮੋਰ ਆਗਿਆ ਸੁਨੋ ਲੈ ਪਿਆਰੇ । ਬਿਨਾ ਤੇਗ ਕੇਸੰ ਦਿਵੋ ਨ ਦਿਦਾਰੇ ।

    (ਗੁਰ ਬਿਲਾਸ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ 10, ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਜੂੜਾ ਸੀਸ ਕੇ ਮੱਧ ਭਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਰਾਖੇ, ਔਰ ਪਾਗ ਬੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੇ, ਕੇਸ ਢਾਂਪ ਰਖੇ,
    ਕੰਘਾ ਦਵੈ ਕਾਲ ਕਰੇ, ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਇਆ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਦੇਹੀ ਦੇ ਰੋਮ ਨ ਲੁਹਾਏ । ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸਾਂ ਦੀ ਪਾਲਣਾ ਕਰੈ । ਦੋ ਵਕਤ ਕੰਘਾ ਹੋਵੈ ।.....
    ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸ ਮੁਹਰ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਸਿਖੀ ਦੀ ਜਾਣੇ। ਜੋ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਬਿਨਾ ਰਖੇ, ਸੋ ਭੰਡ ਭਗਤੀਆ ਜਾਣਨਾ ਨਿਗੁਰਾ । (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਚਉਪਾ ਸਿੰਘ)

    ਚਾਰ ਤਨਖਾਹਾਂ ਵੱਡੀਆ ਹਨ:
    ੳ) ਕੇਸਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇਅਦਬੀ ।
    ਅ) ਤਮਾਕੂ ਵਰਤਨਾ ।
    ੲ) ਪਰਾਈ ਇਸਤਰੀ ਦਾ ਭੋਗ ਕਰਨਾ ।
    ਸ) ਕੁੱਠਾ ਖਾਣਾ ।
    (ਗੁਰਮਤ ਸੁਧਾਕਰ, ਪੰਨਾ 536-37)


    4) Keeping turban or any other articles of faith and external Rehat is a matter of personal choice.
    Answer: In order for one to become a Sikh he/she must take Amrit first and then follow the Rehat prescribed by Panj Pyare. There is no personal choice involved. Everyone is given the same Amrit, same rehat and same bana and they are to abide by it. If it was a matter of personal choice then there would be no need for anyone to enter the room of Amrit Sanchar. Only those who wish to follow the huakm (teaching) of Guru Ji enter the path of Sikhi and sacrifice their heads to the Guru while others just make excuses and claim religion to be optional. Sikhi is a classroom and Guru is the teacher. Sikhs, being the students as 'Sikh' means disciple, must follow each and every instruction of the Guru. Goal of every Sikh is to live true way of life which comes from the teaching of the Guru. All of the Gurus wore turbans. Turban is the crown of Sikhs that distinguishes them from everyone else. Such remarks as 'turban is not necessary" made by fake human gurus have only one purpose and that is to destroy the distinct appearance of the Sikhs. As long as Sikhs have their separate identity they cannot be annihilated into the Hindu fold.
    Kirpan is the symbol of dignity. Kirpan is protector of the weak and defenseless. Kirpan is protector of our dignity, heritage and honor. It represents our freedom. It was the power of Kirpan that Sikhs used to fight Mughal oppressors, foreign invaders like Abdali and British. Through the power of sword Sikhs freed India from foreign rule and freed Hindu slave women from the hands of Afghani Pathans. Guru Gobind Singh Ji referred to His Sword with names of Durga, Chandi, and Bhagaute. He even went as far as calling it His 'Pir'. Kirpan that freed India, hindu women, stopped foreign invaders, kicked British out and fought against every single enemy of Punjab must be kept all the times. Fake gurus only say these things to disarm the Sikh community from warrior hood and turn it into a defenseless weak community so that hindu mobs can target and kill Sikhs easily if another episode of 1984 occurs. On one hand they tell Sikhs to stop carrying Kirpan and on the other hand they are always accompanied by security and armed forces equipped with automatic weapons. Why such contradiction? Perhaps they should look at some of the following quotes and try to explain where it is written that keeping Kirpan, Turban or any other article of Sikh faith is optional.
    ਅਸ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਖੰਡੋ ਖੜਗ ਤੁਪਕ ਤਬਰ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਸੈਫ ਸਰੋਹੀ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਯਹੈ ਹਮਾਰੈ ਪੀਰ ॥੩॥
    ਤੀਰ ਤੁਹੀ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤਬਰ ਤਲਵਾਰ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਤਿਹਾਰੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਭਏ ਸਿੰਧ ਭਵ ਪਾਰ ॥੪॥
    ਕਾਲ ਤੁਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੁਹੀ ਤੇਗ ਅਰੁ ਤੀਰ ॥ ਤੁਹੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ ਜੀਤ ਕੀ ਆਜੁ ਤੁਹੀ ਜਗਬੀਰ ॥੫॥

    As, Kripan (sword), Khanda, Khadag (sword), Tupak (gun), Tabar (hatched), Teer (arrow), Saif (sword), Sarohi and Saihathi, all these are our adorable seniors. Thou are the Teer (arrow), Thou are Saihathi, Thou art Tabar (hatchet), and Talwaar (sword); he, who remembers Thy Name crosses the dreadful ocean of existence. Thou art the KAL (death), thou art the goddess Kali, Thou art the saber and arrow, Thou art the sign of victory today and Thou art the Hero of the world. (Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

    ਪੁਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਉਨ ਸਿਛਯਾ ਦਈ । ਮੀਣੇ ਮਸੰਦਨ ਬਰਤਯੌ ਨਹੀਂ ।
    ਕੁੜੀਮਾਰ ਰਮਰਈ ਨੜੀਮਾਰ । ਜੋ ਇਨ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੁ ਹੁਇ ਹੈ ਖਵਾਰ ।
    ਜਥਾ ਸ਼ਕਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਲਕ ਪਾਯੋ । ਕੜਾਹ ਕਰਾਇ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਛਕਾਯੋ ।
    ਪਹਿਰ ਕਛਹਿਰੇ ਸਿਰ ਬੰਧਯੋ ਪਾਗ । ਗੁਰਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਚਨ ਪਰ ਰਹਯੋ ਲਾਗ ।
    ਦੋਹਰਾ: ਯੌਂ ਕਹ ਕੈ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ, ਗਲ ਤੇਗੋ ਦੀਨੋ ਪਾਇ ।
    ਕਰਦ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਸਿਰ ਪਰ ਧਰੈਂ, ਮੁਖਹੁੰ ਅਕਾਲ ਜਪਾਇ ।
    ਔਰ ਕਹੀ - ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੈਯੋ । ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੁ ਦੁਇ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਪੈਯੋ ।
    ਔਰ ਅਨੰਦ ਰਹਿਰਾਸ ਜਪਯੋ, ਚੰਡੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਖੜੇ ਪੜ੍ਹੈਯੋ ।
    ਦੁਇ ਵੇਲੇ ਉਠ ਬੰਧਯੋ ਦਸਤਾਰੰ । ਪਹਰ ਆਠ ਰਖਯੋ ਸੰਭਾਰੰ ।..
    ਕੇਸਨ ਕੀ ਕੀਜਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਿਤਪਾਲ । ਨ ਉਸਤਰਨ ਸੇ ਕਟਯੋ ਬਾਲ ।
    (ਗੁਰ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼, ਰਤਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਭੰਗੂ)


    ਕਛ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਤਿਆਗੈ । ਸਨਮੁਖ ਲਰੈ ਨ ਰਣ ਤੇ ਭਾਗੈ ।
    ਕੁੱਠਾ, ਹੁੱਕਾ, ਚਰਸ, ਤਮਾਕੂ । ਗਾਂਜਾ, ਟੋਪੀ, ਤਾੜੀ, ਖਾਕੂ ।
    ਇਨ ਕੀ ਓਰ ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਦੇਖੈ । ਰਹਤਵੰਤ ਜੋ ਸਿੰਘ ਬਿਸੇਖੈ ।
    (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)


    ਪ੍ਰਾਤ ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਜਤਨ ਸੋ ਸਾਧੇ । ਕੰਘਾ ਕਰਦ ਦਸਤਾਰਹਿ ਬਾਂਧੇ ।
    ਚਾਰ ਘੜੀ ਜਬ ਦਿਵਸ ਰਹਾਈ । ਪੰਚ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ ਪੁਨਹ ਕਰਾਈ ।
    ਕੰਘਾ ਕਰਦ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਜਾਵੈ । ਇਹੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਸਿੰਘਨ ਸੋ ਭਾਵੈ ।
    (ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ)


    ਕੰਘਾ ਦੋਨੋ ਵਕਤ ਕਰ, ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨਹਿ ਕਰ ਬਾਂਧਈ ।
    ਦਾਤਨ ਨੀਤ ਕਰੇਇ, ਨ ਦੁਖ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ ।
    (ਤਨਖਾਹਨਾਮਾ ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ)


    ਤਬ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਕਹਿਆ: ਜੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਹੋਵੈਗਾ ਸੋ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਥੀਂ ਬਗੈਰੁ ਹੋਰਥੈ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਨ ਕਰਸੀ ।
    ਅਤੈ ਜਿਥੇ ਸ਼ਬਦੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਿਥੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰਨੀ, ਹੋਰ ਮੜ੍ਹੀ ਮਸਾਣੀ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਵਣਾ । ਪੰਡਤ ਪਾਂਧੇ ਮੀਏਂ
    ਮਹਤੇ ਦੀ ਮਤ ਨਹੀ ਲੈਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਜੋ ਮੇਰਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਥੀਂ ਸਿਵਾਇ ਕਰਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ, ਭਦਣੁ, ਉਸਤਰਾ
    ਨਹੀ ਲਾਵਣਾ । ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ, ਤਰਪਣੁ ਪੂਜਾ, ਅਰਚਾ, ਧੋਤੀ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਕੇ, ਸਿਰੀਂ ਨੰਗਾ ਖਾਵਣਾ ਨਾਹੀ ।
    ਨੰਗੀ ਬੋਦੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਅਗੈ ਬੈਠਣਾ ਨਾਹੀ । ਜੋ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਹੋਸੀ ਸੋ ਇਤਨੀਆਂ ਵਸਤੂਆਂ ਦੇ ਨੇੜੇ ਨਾ ਆਵਸੀ ।
    (ਸਾਖੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਕੀ ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ)
    The above quotes are more than enough to shut these people's mouths that deliberately attack Sikhi just to make some money. They are sell-out puppets who submit to every command of the treacherous Indian government. One after another is attacking Sikhi. The Indian government supports one human, gives him money to shut his mouth and then supports another one. It is the plan made by the government. There has literally been a flood of these fake Gurus after all freedom movements were destroyed. At the time of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, there were a few and those came close to leaving the Punjab forever. Now that the freedom fighters became martyrs or left the Punjab, the Indian Government has opened bars, encouraged drug traffic and sent hundreds of fake Gurus to undermine, erode and destroy the principles of Sikhi.
    Do not believe in these and stay away from these agents. They are false. They can give you no knowledge and will destroy you. You all should learn this lesson. Only Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the true Guru and nobody else. Only true word can give you the true knowledge. Man-made words can give you nothing. Gurbani is not man-made but is the revelation of God.
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (SGGSJ, Ang 308)
    Believe in Gurbani. It is the only true word. It guides everyone on the right path. It is inherently alive, eternal and transcendent as The Source. One who is born is destined to die which would not make that person a source of eternal knowledge on his or her own merits. He or she is bound by the limits of body, tiny mind and intellect. Only Gurbani is the true source of knowledge. Only Gurbani is the True Guru. If you follow it with all your heart, you shall be one with Waheguru.
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
     
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  8. pk70

    pk70
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    Dalbirk ji
    Thanks for bringing this article at least to negate the negativity about Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji. Even if nothing is quoted, the following Guru Vaakas say all about why SGGS ji more than a mere Granth as seeker3k questions

    ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰੇ ॥
    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. (SGGSJ, Ang 982)

    ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
    Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani, the Word, of the Formless Lord. There is no other as great as He is. (SGGSJ, Ang 515)
    ( Means Bani is all about the Formless Waheguru)
    ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥
    O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it. (SGGSJ, Ang 308)

    Furthermore, the true living Guru is out of the cycle of death and birth which is one of the many qualities of the true Guru.

    ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
    My True Guru, forever and ever, does not come and go. (SGGSJ, Ang 759)
    In essence, when Gurbani is with us why we need others to be our Guru?
     
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  9. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    Is it disrespect to point the faults? if it is then what about Nanak,did he disrespect the Hindus by pointing the fault in their beliefe? What do you think bani is? These peoms writen in the Granth is bani?There is nothing new in Granth that was not writen before by sadus and bhagats. The bani is shabad that guru give his disciple not a poem. These peoms are writen by Arjan Dev. Can you tell me who wrote Gurmukhi lipi?
    If you are so adamant in your beliefe that you cant see what you are doing. Then I am sorry for you.Belive what u want but do not try to disgrace sikhism by fake retuals same as hundus are doing. Study the Granth and find the truth.
     
  10. seeker3k

    seeker3k
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    Kirpa was given by Guru Gobind to protect the week,like you said. It was 3 foot long, it was not 6". One can not protect any one with 6" This is disgrace and insult to Gobind Singh.The kirpan has become a symbole nothing else. It was symbole that Nanak rejected by refusing to wear thread. Now we feel proud that we wear 6" symbole. Who is coruting and insultung sikhi? Hindus ofer food to idol, that is not right in sikhism, but ofer food to book is good? How hypocite.
     
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  11. pk70

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    Is it disrespect to point the faults?
    if it is then what about Nanak,did he disrespect the Hindus by pointing the fault in their beliefe?
    What fault you are pointing out? What Guru Nanak did, you are not even close to that. You are just generalizing the stuff you even don’t know.


    What do you think bani is? These peoms writen in the Granth is bani?There is nothing new in Granth that was not writen before by sadus and bhagats.

    Obviously you are not trying point at faults but trying disrespect “ Bani” we call Guru. Is there any problem with you if we believe Bani is our Guru? If you don’t believe, did we invite you here to respect Bani? Whatever you think about Bani or Sikh Gurus, we don’t care and we don’t ask you to care. You are on this site, read the terms and you will find you are violating those ones by disrespecting Sikh Gurus with your own confused views about Gurbani. Question is not what is written before or after, question is to take guidance. If you want to take guidance from other source, we don’t have problem but don’t try to be Guru Nanak here.
    The bani is shabad that Guru give his disciple not a poem.
    That is the merchandise of your shop , for us all Sree Guru Granth Sahib is Shabad Guru, we do not give importance to other living Guru or any other.

    These peoms are writen by Arjan Dev. Can you tell me who wrote Gurmukhi lipi?
    How dare you say that? All Bani is compiled by Sree Guru Arjan Dev by naming who penned down it. Who are you here to teach us this garbage ideology? A new Guru on the block? There are a lot of books on Gurmukhi, go and find out, it should be in linguistic -sections You sound like teaching us about Gurmukhi origin but are forgetting that it is the language not the lipi that defines the word. Like "ikk onkaar" it can be written in other scripts as well. So dont make lipi an issue to give us insight into Gurbani for God's sake


    If you are so adamant in your beliefe that you cant see what you are doing. Then I am sorry for you.Belive what u want but do not try to disgrace Sikhism by fake retuals same as hundus are doing. Study the Granth and find the truth.
    Who are you to ask us these questions? The way you show disrespect to Guru and Guru Granth Sahib, it shows that you have nothing to do with Sikhism. There are many Sikhs who oppose ritualism in Sikhism but at least they show civility towards Sikh Gurus and Sree Guru Granth Sahib unlike you.
     
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  12. pk70

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    There is a lot of other things said in the post and from Shabad Guru now you are on "Kirpan" Then you will come to other stuff. If you just want to point out rituals, you wouldnt show disrespect to Gurbani or Guru Granth Sahib but you did. So what is the agenda man?
    There are many Sikhs who are against rituals performed before Guru Granth Sahib but they dont see any problem to show respect as Shabad Guru.
     
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  13. seeker3k

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    During his life time he waved the canopy of Guru seat on the head of Lahina (Guru Angad) and merged his own light into him. Guru Nanak now transformed himself. This mystery is incomprehensible for anybody that awe-inspiring (Nanak) accomplished a wonderful task. He converted (his body) into a new form. (Bhai Gurdas Ji)
    By saying this you are suggesting that Bhai Gurdas was enlighted person as Nanak was?
    As you now are accepting what ever is written about Gurus,so was Gurdas at that time.
    Jhajha: You shall never have to regret and repent, you fool, if you listen to the Teachings of the True Guru, for even an instant. Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation. ||13|| (SGGSJ, Ang 435)
    At the time of this was written there was no Granth, so which guru was the writer talking about?
    And this

    If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared, even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2|| (SGGSJ, Ang 463)

    Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. (SGGSJ, Ang 750)
    This one you got it all wrong my friend.
    It don’t mean Nanak is the greatest guru It mean Guru is great who protected me yesterday.
    Most every one is reading as you are reading it but learn to read then you can understand the true meaning.
    The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. (SGGSJ, Ang 982)
    In the begging there was word and the word was with god.And god is word.

    When Nanak was living he said every one are created equal,no one is lower and no one is higher.Every one have same jot (light).We are all equal.Then how come Nanak’s jot id different then the rest of us?What happen to our soul jot when we die?As we are told it go and merge in the god.What happned to Nanak’s soal? If he put his soal in Lahna then what happened to Lahna’a soal
    Two soals cant be in one body? That has never happened before in the history of mankind. Why do we don’t question this. Why do we accept it?If Nanak wanted us to belive in book as Guru then he must have had the power to write it by him self and told us to worship it.But he did not do that Nor he appointed Lehna as 2nd guru.As we are told Nanak knew every thing past and future, if so did Nanak knew that one day we will be going through what we are going through.We are fighting for the chair.It is all for the money. They are making fools of us and we are letting them control us.
    What else can be accepted from sheep?
     
  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Respectfully, seeker3k,

    Guru Nanak did not pass his soul onto Lehna, Guru Angad. Guru Nanak passed his jyot(a) to Guru Angad. Jyot, jyotthi, there are various spellings, comes from the Sanskrit word jyotthisa which means Light, Divine Light. The jyot is a light that infuses body mind and soul, the entire being.

    Souls are not passed on. A soul has its own destiny which is determined according to Waheguru. The soul moves, travels, however you wish to say, according to the path destined for it.

    There are some other things that you have said that I disagree with -- but leave it at this for now.

    Sat Nam
     
  15. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    There are various words for soul. Atma is the Supreme Soul of Creation. Since it is everywhere it cannot be passed from one place to another. Jiva and aham are the soul's embodiments of the individual self, although they are not exactly the same thing. Jivanmukhta is a realized soul. None of these can be transferred from one person to the other at will. Hope you understand why it is impossible.
     
  16. pk70

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    When Nanak was living he said every one are created equal,no one is lower and no one is higher
    Figure out in what contest Guru Nanak said that, do not just throw a stone in the pond.
    .Every one have same jot (light).We are all equal.Then how come Nanak’s jot id different then the rest of us?
    Why some pass medical school and some even cannot pass the entry exam? If you talk as per context, you will not ask childish questions.
    What happen to our soul jot when we die?As we are told it go and merge in the god.
    Who said that all souls merge in to God? If it is your own enlightenment, no comment.
    What happned to Nanak’s soal? If he put his soal in Lahna then what happened to Lahna’a soal Two soals cant be in one body? That has never happened before in the history of mankind. Why do we don’t question this. Why do we accept it?
    Lehna became Guru with the help of Guru Nanak, when one surrenders ones’ self,one ceases to live in ones previous thinking. Lehnas thinking was Guru Nanak’s thinking. There was one soul, difference was that the soul took other souls thinking to live and infuse divine knowledge. You are taking soul as a literal context. All your problems lie right here.Is there a word “soul” it is jyot, literally means light, literally means knowledge/thinking. You will not get it.
    If Nanak wanted us to belive in book as Guru then he must have had the power to write it by him self and told us to worship it.But he did not do that Nor he appointed Lehna as 2nd Guru.
    That is product of your own nightmares. History states that all Guru were called decendents of Nanak also known as Nanakpsanthi. A fool will listen to your garbage views when History verifies otherwise
    As we are told Nanak knew every thing past and future, if so did Nanak knew that one day we will be going through what we are going through
    Was it claimed by Guru Nanak? Why would any care about hear say?
    .We are fighting for the chair.It is all for the money. They are making fools of us and we are letting them control us.
    Who are these “we” elaborate and avoid jumping from one thing to another
    What else can be accepted from sheep?
    It depends who is the sheep

    You really need help to understand about Jyot, your comments show all about your limited understanding about Guru, Bani and Gurgaddi. First of all I doubt your intentions about Sikhism, even if for a second it is accepted you are seeking the truth as per your claim, learn to listen and grasp what is read, you do not move beyond words like n elementary student.
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    We need to cool off a little. :) Otherwise the pot will boil over.
     
  18. Astroboy

    Astroboy Malaysia
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  19. prakash.s.bagga

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    Deletion of the discussion of phonetic changes/meaning changes

    Prakash S. Bagga ji,

    I am sorry but once again I have deleted material which you have posted repeatedly. In spite of warnings. You must be the one who tells us these meanings in depth. It is too much a mystery novel to have the u U brought up again and again as deeply significant. Please enlarge on your point whenever you make it and do it in the context of the discussion, not as a grammar lesson.
     
  20. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    imho the Aunkarr under a Word serves the same purpose as Capitalising serves in English Grammar. In Gurmukhi and other Indo languages there is no "Capitals/small letters"...all alphabets same...IN Gurmukhi of Gurbani Grammar this capitalisation is served by either the Aunkarr or the SIHAREE.

    SO "Sabadu" is THE SABAD......and "Sabad" is just about ANY sabad !! Akal Purkah(u) is THE MAIN PURAKH..the ONE and ONLY PURAKH in this brahmand...."purakh" is everyone else..you, me..billy clinton..nehru..stalin....and about 3 billion more...

    These are Grammatical "MARKERS"...and the meaning will change when they are applied...
     
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  21. spnadmin

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    Gyani ji

    Thank you and next time anyone who brings this up must make the same effort that you have done. :)
     

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