Sikhism Scholarly Books List

[dalsingh]

re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

I think if you're not around Panjabi speaking/speakers regularly (i.e. in a Panjabi household) a good way of learning grammar and syntax is to pick up a few simple lines and then start experimenting by changing the nouns.

i.e. Main park chal raha hai (I'm going to the park)
Main Raj de ghar chal raha hai (I'm going to Raj's house)

I think in the earlier stages, the task of learning a new language may seem daunting. But there is a point (after much hard work) that things start to click in place and the speed of progress increases (this is referred to as overcoming the steep end of the learning curve).

I did a dissertation on teaching the Panjabi language many years ago as part of my degree, and one thing I found is that although most theoretical work on second language acquisition is quite negative about learning through drill or rote. I believe that drilling was as effective as other methods to learn things in the earlier stages.

But saying all this: I have seen plenty of Panjabi kids growing up in the west who, despite having parents who are fluent in the language, have a poor grasp of the language.

 

[spnadmin]

re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Dalsingh ji

You are right with everything you say -- and I know that literature that is negative about drill. But here is what is crazy about that literature. When teaching English Language Arts to little kids who are native English speakers, we play that game that you mention: a good way of learning grammar and syntax is to pick up a few simple lines and then start experimenting by changing the nouns.

Another one is to: Learn about 4 or so words, make one sentence from them, then play a game where you substitute new words and make new sentences So this builds vocabulary and grammar for little American kids very quickly.

I agree with you.

One thing I do at night -- I pick one word from SGGS and then use the search engine to search for it. If there are 200 references to that word, then I have 200 hundred examples. So i print out the pages, may about 5 pages altogether. And read and re-read the lines. Then i can see the word in Punjabi and English context together. Not only does that particular word get memorized, but several others along the way. Just a simple example -- look up "song bird" and see how many bird names you will learn. Heh, Heh -- I like birds.

 

[dalsingh]

re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

That is a very good way of building up your vocabulary.

One particular problem I had was that a type of "ceiling" existed in my Panjabi family environment with regards to learning the language. The primary source of my language education (through osmosis) was my mother and a time came (when I was well grown up!) that I realised that there was a LOT more to the vocabulary than I had been taught.

Mother marrying relatively young and coming to the UK with only a basic education meant she didn't have much time, opportunity or motivation to develop her knowledge beyond being able to read scriptures and write letters home.

Years later (primarily from my interest in Sikh history) I was to encounter a whole linguistic world I had not encountered. Then I got hold of the Panjabi-English dictionary from Patiala University and skimming through it realised how basic and colloquial my Panjabi was/is!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Dalsingh ji,

I will, but am entangled in getting the correct track backs to the other thread. 'Fraid I made something of a mess. May take some time. Nobody answer 'til I finish up here.

 

[spnadmin]

Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Futurekaur ji and other jios

Let's home that my level of suspicion is not raging like a grass fire right now. As reported, i was able to purchase one of 2 remaining copies on Amazon of C. Shackle's book Introduction to the Sacred Language of the Sikhs. Yesterday, I received an email asking me to confirm the details of purchase by going to a link. Which I did. And at the link it said there were no more books. So I wrote back for a clarification ans was told -- "Have no fear" you are going to receive this book. Well today, I received another email from Amazon stating -- Sorry, the book is unavailable.

Here is why I am suspicious. I did tell Amazon how important that book was to a small group of people. This evening I checked a bookfinder's site and discovered that Amazon is selling that book in UK and in California for more than 300 dollars than I paid two days ago. Are you thinking what I am thinking?

I will pray to be less cynical -- but right now -- I am feeling cynical.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Dalsingh ji

No "hen" in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Would kukkari suffice? Or That one was hard.

No "dove" either in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. But in modern punjabi dove = Ghuggu G`ugI

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib these three:
Sparrow = chirree; Modern = chiriya
Parrot = sooaa; Modern = tota
Duck = chakavee; Modern = batak

In the absence of hen, there is this lovely verse in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ---
ਜੈਸੋ ਆਂਡੋ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
jaiso aaanddo hiradhae maahi ||
as the bird cherishes her eggs in her heart;

EXTRA INFORMATION - Here is an online translation link. Thought I had lost it.
http://www.ijunoon.net/punjabi_dic/mean.asp

 

[futurekaur]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Hmm there is a problem. We should stick to modern Punjabi words, as the grammar of the SGGS is different, there were more declensions then....as well as other things. I'm waiting for my copy of Shackles book to come. When some of us have our grammars we can start a SGGS Punjabi thread.
so for dog, cat, donkey

dog: sag, suaan, kuttaa and we need to know is it masculine (m) or feminine (f)
sg, suAwn, ku`qw

 

[spnadmin]

Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Poor thing.

Are you teasing me because I am feeling very sorry for myself? I deserve it.

 

[spnadmin]

Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Which comes from the several times in Gurbani where the songbird won't drink any other water. You remember she is thirsty but waits for the rain. She will only drink raindrops.

The attempt to split this thread into two threads and then delete the extra posts from each has been a dismal failure. SPN Vocabulary, Grammar, etc has not disappeared completely. I will get back to this later. Need to step back and rethink this.

 

[dalsingh]

Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

Ok, we're jumping around threads. Cool.

I wasn't teasing you Antonia, it was genuine empathy!

Don't worry, you'll learn the language with or without that book!!

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

For anyone who has been following the posting problems of the last day --- let's give Admin Aman Singh ji a big round of applause for figuring things out.

 

[dalsingh]

Re: Punjabi SPN - Discussing Vocabulary, Grammar, and More

For anyone who has been following the posting problems of the last day --- let's give Admin Aman Singh ji a big round of applause for figuring things out.

<claps wildly> Thanks Aman!

 

[pk70]

Sincere thanks Aman Singh ji

 

[pk70]

aad0002 ji

I have read a lot of stuff you have posted regarding Dasm Granth and others. It is kind of "must read" to clear a lot of doubts not only about Dasm Granth but also about authors. There are some out there they just write controversial things for name recognition and money. I dont know if you remember, there was a Principal Sant Singh Sekhon(peace on him), he imagined Baba Banda Bahadur to be Guru Gobind Singh Ji. People do such things even if they have to ignore Historical facts.

 

[spnadmin]

pk70 ji

My intuition tells me that this happens when people feel insecure and do not trust their own judgment and reason. When one thinks about things like the path laid out by Sri Guru Gobind Singh, we can see that he was actually dignifying the ability of people to be led spiritually by ideas and principles, instead of being led around by personalities. It is the same thing as the maxim: the rule of law is better than the rule of men-- because egos and weaknesses of character are removed from the context of having to solve difficult moral and spiritual problems. But this is a scary proposition for many people, and it takes individual work and effort. It also requires a sangat for discussion so that we have help thinking things through from more than one angle. That is where the audience for Babjis comes from -- from people who do not trust ideas and need something that is present in the flesh to tell them what to do.

 

[spnadmin]

Available in the SPN Bookstore,

Tested Universal Science of Individual Meditation in Sikh Religion by Bhagat Singh, Dr. Thind
Buy new: $20.00 / Used from: $14.00
Usually ships in 24 hours

 

[spnadmin]

Jios,

Good news for today. Dictionary of Guru Granth Sahib by Surindar Singh Kohli just arrived today. The book is published by Singh Brothers, Amritsar, 1996/2005. The price of this book was a modest US 8.75, unheard of for academic books in the United States.

I have looked through quickly. Word entries are listed using English phonetic transliteration, followed by the same word in Gurmukhi font. Then the English definition is given. What is noteworthy in my opinion is that every form of a word is entered separately so that all the grammatical variations are translated separately. For example: Dola, to waiver or fluctuate; and Dola (as Dolaa), fluctuation. So every single word is included in all the declensions, or noun endings, conjugated forms of verbs, and noun/verb derivatives. Another important feature is that alternate forms of the same word are given.

All the other scholarly books written by Professor Singh are listed -- making it possible for those who want to read advanced topics in Sikhism by a Sikh scholar to do so. The Yoga of the Sikhs and Sikh Ethics are two examples.

This book was ordered, shipped and paid for without complications and fanfare by Manohar Book Service, an enterprise with an efficient, functional and well-designed online purchasing service. Total time was less than 10 business days.

 

[KulwantK]

Sat Nam, everyone- I have a question you may be able to assist with- I am looking to get a copy of the Sarbloh Granth, in English, if possible. Where should I go to find one?
Thank you- Wahe Guru, Blessings to all-
Kulwant

 

[spnadmin]

Sat Nam, everyone- I have a question you may be able to assist with- I am looking to get a copy of the Sarbloh Granth, in English, if possible. Where should I go to find one?
Thank you- Wahe Guru, Blessings to all-
Kulwant

KulwantK ji

I have done a quick search. Two answers emerge. One is that the Sarbloh Granth has not been translated into English. The other answer is that it has been translated by Surinder Singh Kohli.

You may be able to verify the second answer by searching under Professor SS Kohli's name on Google. And also looking through the online catalogs of Indian booksellers. I will keep looking for you. There are a couple of places that I can try. It is wee hours of the morning here in the states. Tomorrow I will spend more time on this.

 

[KulwantK]

thanks, Ji! Shall do the search as well, and am looking forward to whatyou find too.
Wahe Guru,
Kulwant