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Satnam and Vaheguru

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Taranjeet singh, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    {url not allowed} - 30. What is Naam?


    What is Naam?


    There is a gross misunderstanding among the masses concerning what is the Naam, or what Naam means, or how and where the Naam can be obtained and what Naam should be used for meditation. The reason behind this situation is a result of the preaching practices used globly by the modern day preachers..................Kindly Read on....
     
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  3. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Gurbani is all about "ACTION"..and not just mantras, verbal repetitions, malas,rosaries, counters etc to keep count of how many times such and such word is repeated...

    GURBANI is about ACTING on the RECIPES given in SGGS..to Change our daily Lives...act on the advice..Naam is ACTION..action and more ACTION....
    ACT "TRUTH..SATNAAM..in daily Life..not just keep on saying."satnam satnam satnam and think that is Naam..its NOT..its just parrotting like a cd player playing in a Loop !!
    ACT..NIRBHAU..like Guur Teg bahdur Did in Chandni Chowk...ACT Nirvair..like Guur Arjan Ji did on the Hot Plate...ACT ACT ACT...

    SADLY more and more sikhs under the bhaehkava..misled by Babas and sants are going for meaningless repetitions..countings and Ritualised parrotting of certian words as mantras jantras and think they are doing Naam simran...:idea:
     
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  4. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Gyani ji, you are absolutely right.Majority of the Sikhs recite Gurbani as a mantar.Far from acting upon it, they don"t even understsad the meaning of Shabad they are repeating like a parrot.The sadest thing is they,under a false illusion believe themselves to be vey pious and religious persons.:mad:
     
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  5. Taranjeet singh

    Taranjeet singh India
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    In the above article the author has pointed out that Naam is 'satnaam' and not 'vaheguru'. Some of us do meditate on 'Vaheguru'. Naam may be something that is given by The Satguru himself through, khande bate de pahul may be the first step wherein one is instructed to focus upon 'Vaheguru.'
    Needless to state that the practice would be meaningful if we strictly follow the teachings as conatined in Dhan Guru Granth sahib ji.
    If The creator is unfathomable so should be the naam i.e. the insignia of that order. But still we are instructed to practice it.

    Naam is the pious name and is stated to be the precious jewel. It forms the edifice of entire sikhi.

    Amrit Vela sach Naam vadaie Veechaar.

    It may be that it is. Some of the places where the naam has appeared in bani is reproduced here.

    [SIZE=+3]******[/SIZE]Page 4, Line 7
    ਅਖਰੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਖਰੀ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥
    अखरी नामु अखरी सालाह ॥
    Akẖrī nām akẖrī sālāh.
    From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 8, Line 12
    ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥
    जिनी नामु धिआइआ गए मसकति घालि ॥
    Jinī nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ga▫e maskaṯ gẖāl.
    Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows -
    Guru Angad Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 10, Line 2
    ਹਮ ਕੀਰੇ ਕਿਰਮ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਰਣਾਈ ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੧॥
    हम कीरे किरम सतिगुर सरणाई करि दइआ नामु परगासि ॥१॥
    Ham kīre kiram saṯgur sarṇā▫ī kar ḏa▫i▫ā nām pargās. ||1||
    I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 10, Line 3
    ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਸਖਾਈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਹਮਰੀ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    गुरमति नामु मेरा प्रान सखाई हरि कीरति हमरी रहरासि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Gurmaṯ nām merā parān sakẖā▫ī har kīraṯ hamrī rahrās. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 10, Line 8
    ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਰਸੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਮਿਲਿ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਰਗਾਸਿ ॥੪॥੪॥
    धनु धंनु सतसंगति जितु हरि रसु पाइआ मिलि जन नानक नामु परगासि ॥४॥४॥
    Ḏẖan ḏẖan saṯsangaṯ jiṯ har ras pā▫i▫ā mil jan Nānak nām pargās. ||4||4||
    Blessed, blessed is the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, where the Lord's Essence is obtained. Meeting with His humble servant, O Nanak, the Light of the Naam shines forth. ||4||4||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 11, Line 16
    ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਨਾਮ ਰਤਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
    जिस नो क्रिपा करहि तिनि नाम रतनु पाइआ ॥
    Jis no kirpā karahi ṯin nām raṯan pā▫i▫ā.
    Those who are blessed with Your Mercy obtain the Jewel of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 12, Line 7
    ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥
    मिलु साधसंगति भजु केवल नाम ॥१॥
    Mil sāḏẖsangaṯ bẖaj keval nām. ||1||
    Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||
    Guru Arjan Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 13, Line 13
    ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ਟੇਕ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਹੀ ਸੁਖੁ ਮੰਡਾ ਹੇ ॥੪॥੪॥
    जन नानक नामु अधारु टेक है हरि नामे ही सुखु मंडा हे ॥४॥४॥
    Jan Nānak nām aḏẖār tek hai har nāme hī sukẖ mandā he. ||4||4||
    Servant Nanak takes the Sustenance and Support of the Naam. In the Name of the Lord, he enjoys celestial peace. ||4||4||
    Guru Ram Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 15, Line 13
    ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਕੇ ਕੈ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਮ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥੨॥
    एते रस सरीर के कै घटि नाम निवासु ॥२॥
    Ėṯe ras sarīr ke kai gẖat nām nivās. ||2||
    these pleasures of the human body are so numerous; how can the Naam, the Name of the Lord, find its dwelling in the heart? ||2||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 16, Line 6
    ਲਿਖੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਲਿਖੁ ਲਿਖੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
    लिखु नामु सालाह लिखु लिखु अंतु न पारावारु ॥१॥
    Likẖ nām sālāh likẖ likẖ anṯ na pārāvār. ||1||
    Write the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; write over and over again that He has no end or limitation. ||1||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 16, Line 19
    ਘਰ ਮੰਦਰ ਖੁਸੀ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥
    घर मंदर खुसी नाम की नदरि तेरी परवारु ॥
    Gẖar manḏar kẖusī nām kī naḏar ṯerī parvār.
    The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is the pleasure of houses and mansions. Your Glance of Grace is my family, Lord.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 17, Line 7
    ਓਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਮੋ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
    ओना अंदरि नामु निधानु है नामो परगटु होइ ॥
    Onā anḏar nām niḏẖān hai nāmo pargat ho▫e.
    The Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is within them, and through the Naam, they are radiant and famous.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 17, Line 7
    ਨਾਉ ਪੂਜੀਐ ਨਾਉ ਮੰਨੀਐ ਅਖੰਡੁ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸੋਇ ॥੩॥
    नाउ पूजीऐ नाउ मंनीऐ अखंडु सदा सचु सोइ ॥३॥
    Nā▫o pūjī▫ai nā▫o mannī▫ai akẖand saḏā sacẖ so▫e. ||3||
    They worship the Naam, and they believe in the Naam. The True One is forever Intact and Unbroken. ||3||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 17, Line 9
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਐ ਦਰਿ ਗਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਹੋਇ ॥੪॥੮॥
    नानक नामि विसारिऐ दरि गइआ किआ होइ ॥४॥८॥
    Nānak nām visāri▫ai ḏar ga▫i▫ā ki▫ā ho▫e. ||4||8||
    O Nanak, those who forget the Naam-what will happen when they go to the Court of the Lord? ||4||8||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 19, Line 3
    ਅੰਧੁਲੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਧ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥
    अंधुलै नामु विसारिआ मनमुखि अंध गुबारु ॥
    Anḏẖulai nām visāri▫ā manmukẖ anḏẖ gubār.
    The blind have forgotten the Naam, the Name of the Lord. The self-willed manmukhs are in utter darkness.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 19, Line 9
    ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿਆ ਦੂਜੀ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਗਿ ॥
    जिनी नामु विसारिआ दूजी कारै लगि ॥
    Jinī nām visāri▫ā ḏūjī kārai lag.
    Those who have forgotten the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are attached to affairs of duality.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 19, Line 15
    ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    जिनि गुरमुखि नामु न बूझिआ मरि जनमै आवै जाइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Jin gurmukẖ nām na būjẖi▫ā mar janmai āvai jā▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 20, Line 9
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮਿ ਸੰਤੋਖੀਆ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੫॥੧੬॥
    नानक नामि संतोखीआ जीउ पिंडु प्रभ पासि ॥५॥१६॥
    Nānak nām sanṯokẖī▫ā jī▫o pind parabẖ pās. ||5||16||
    O Nanak, they are contented with the Naam, the Name of the Lord. They offer their bodies and souls to God. ||5||16||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 20, Line 12
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਨਿਵਰੀ ਭਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    गुरमुखि नामु सलाहीऐ हउमै निवरी भाहि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Gurmukẖ nām salāhī▫ai ha▫umai nivrī bẖāhi. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    The Gurmukh praises the Naam, and the fire of egotism is extinguished. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 21, Line 11
    ਨਿਤਿ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਦੀਆ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੨॥
    निति अहिनिसि हरि प्रभु सेविआ सतगुरि दीआ नामु ॥२॥
    Niṯ ahinis har parabẖ sevi▫ā saṯgur ḏī▫ā nām. ||2||
    Day and night, continually serve the Lord God; the True Guru has given the Naam. ||2||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 21, Line 14
    ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਕਰਮਿ ਸਚੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥੪॥੧੯॥
    नानक नामु न वीसरै करमि सचै नीसाणु ॥४॥१९॥
    Nānak nām na vīsrai karam sacẖai nīsāṇ. ||4||19||
    O Nanak, never forget the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the True Lord shall bless you with His Mark of Grace. ||4||19||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 21, Line 16
    ਜਿਨ ਖਿਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤੇ ਜਨ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    जिन खिनु पलु नामु न वीसरै ते जन विरले संसारि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Jin kẖin pal nām na vīsrai ṯe jan virle sansār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    One who does not forget the Naam, for a moment or even an instant-how rare is such a person in this world! ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 22, Line 8
    ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਮਾਣਕੁ ਲਾਲੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਹੀਰੁ ॥
    मन महि माणकु लालु नामु रतनु पदारथु हीरु ॥
    Man mėh māṇak lāl nām raṯan paḏārath hīr.
    Within the mind are emeralds and rubies, the Jewel of the Naam, treasures and diamonds.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 22, Line 9
    ਸਚੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਧਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਗਹਿਰ ਗੰਭੀਰੁ ॥
    सचु वखरु धनु नामु है घटि घटि गहिर ग्मभीरु ॥
    Sacẖ vakẖar ḏẖan nām hai gẖat gẖat gahir gambẖīr.
    The Naam is the True Merchandise and Wealth; in each and every heart, His Presence is deep and profound.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 24, Line 9
    ਤਾ ਤੂ ਮੁਲਾ ਤਾ ਤੂ ਕਾਜੀ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥
    ता तू मुला ता तू काजी जाणहि नामु खुदाई ॥
    Ŧā ṯū mulā ṯā ṯū kājī jāṇėh nām kẖuḏā▫ī.
    You are a Mullah, and you are a Qazi, only when you know the Naam, the Name of God.
    Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 26, Line 7
    ਜਿਨੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਤਿਨੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥
    जिनी सतिगुरु सेविआ तिनी पाइआ नामु निधानु ॥
    Jinī saṯgur sevi▫ā ṯinī pā▫i▫ā nām niḏẖān.
    Those who serve the True Guru obtain the Treasure of the Naam.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 26, Line 10
    ਹਉ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰਣੈ ਜਿਨਾ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗਾ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
    हउ तिन कै बलिहारणै जिना नामे लगा पिआरु ॥
    Ha▫o ṯin kai balihārṇai jinā nāme lagā pi▫ār.
    I am a sacrifice to those who are in love with the Naam.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 26, Line 11
    ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਚੂਕੈ ਮੋਹ ਪਿਆਸ ॥
    गुर मिलिऐ नामु पाईऐ चूकै मोह पिआस ॥
    Gur mili▫ai nām pā▫ī▫ai cẖūkai moh pi▫ās.
    Meeting with the Guru, the Naam is obtained, and the thirst of emotional attachment departs.
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 26, Line 19
    ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜੀਵੈ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੁਭਾਇ ॥੫॥੨॥੩੫॥
    जनु नानकु जीवै नामु लै हरि देवहु सहजि सुभाइ ॥५॥२॥३५॥
    Jan Nānak jīvai nām lai har ḏevhu sahj subẖā▫e. ||5||2||35||
    Servant Nanak lives by chanting the Naam. O Lord, please give it to me, in Your Natural Way. ||5||2||35||
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]Page 27, Line 6
    ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਆਪਿ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
    जिस नउ आपि दइआलु होइ सो गुरमुखि नामि समाइ ॥२॥
    Jis na▫o āp ḏa▫i▫āl ho▫e so gurmukẖ nām samā▫e. ||2||
    That Gurmukh, unto whom the Lord shows His Kindness, is absorbed in the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||
    Guru Amar Das - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok


    Naam simran is what sikhs consider as a pious duty and supposedly ,nay, for sure is the way to attain union with the Lord. It is to be practised even if it is like being in the loop may be never ending. Without Jap, Tap sanjam one cannot earn the Nectar so called as Amrit. Pakhandis are always there and we cannot help it but surely we can not stop practising 'Vaheguru' that it self is an amrit if one practices it only for half an hour at stretch.

    Which one is Naam:- Satnaam or vaheguru.? Vaheguru is Guru-mantra. So we practice it and that is the way it has been told to us.
    Kindly correct if it is not correct.
    The subjectivity of any individual is appreciated.

    E & O. E.
    [/SIZE]
     
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    #4 Taranjeet singh, Nov 25, 2009
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  6. spnadmin

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    twinkle ji

    I am very confused at this point.

    It is not clear what your premise is for some questions you are asking. What do you mean by The Satguru gives the mantar in Khande bathe de pahul? What/which Satguru are you talking about? The answer makes a difference because it is the context for the rest of your post.

    I am not sure how you are connecting the shabad above to the question you are asking. Many shabads include the word "Naam" but the point of any shabad in relation to Naam can be quite different. So what is it that made you select this particular Shabad?

    Thanks.
     
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  7. Taranjeet singh

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    Narayanjyot kaur ji,

    The article marked as hyper-text link states that the Naam is 'Satnaam' and not 'Vaheguru'. This was the cause of confusion. You may also kindly go through the article. It states that one should concentrate on the 'satnaam'. It is the way the author has made his logic.


    It is considered as per that I have understood, may be it is wrong, that one should focus on Guru Mantra and that is the Naam that we are supposed to consider. It is given by Staguru i.e. tenth Nanak who started the practice and had stated that the Amrit would be given thru. Panj Peary. As a matter of practice the panth has been following this approach hence I have all the reasons to believe that this Amrit is given by the satguru himself thru. the Panj Peary. No one other than the panj Peary can give this Amrit in the ceremony.

    The entire Granth Sahib is full of appreciation of te lord.Mool Mantra explains the sikh philosophy.The following Paath of jap ji sahib is an effort to elaborate this. This also sings the praises of the lord and emhasises the significance of naam. Entire Granth Sahib ji is considered to be a guide Naam i.e the basic qualities that the human being is supposed to develop. However, the naam-simran is the single and most important attribute of the sikh's activities. Naam simran is ,infact, supposed to be the only activity that a sikh should ge engaged into. One cannot consider it as something that is unimportant. It may be parrot like recitation of the word 'Vaheguru'.May be we do not know the out come now but we shall be rewarded with when the time is ripe or our devotion to 'sabad' is of apprpriate and requisite level. Naam is Naam .It is the only manifest form of the absolute form of the Akaal .Hence naam simran, recitation of bani and acting accordingly as per the teachings of Dhan Sri Guru Granth sahib ji is the sum -total for the sikhs.

    IMHO my opinion this is what a sikh is supposed to do.

    BTW the point here that is stressed is whether the word to be practiced is 'satnaam' or 'waheguru'.

    As usual I seek for forgiveness for not stating clearly as to what I have posed as a question i.e. 'satnam' or 'waheguru'.
    However, I believe it is 'waheguru' only.

    For guidance in the matter. There are many of us including the author who are fickle mined and may be swayed by a generalized answer. It is requested that one should be specific in replying to this. My sincerest apologies for it caused any confusion. The title of the thread shoud be 'Satnaam OR 'Vaheguru'. May be you can change.It would reflect the question posed in this thread.


    Thx and Regards to all who have responded.
    [Regarding 'sabad' , 'word of sabad' I shall try to contact you at your Profile only.]
     
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  8. spnadmin

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    twinkle ji

    Before addressing the many statements, questions and opinions that you express in the comments above I have to speak to the "article" at the link you asked me to return to and review.

    In my humble opinion there is a lot that is confused and/or misleading in your description of Sikhism above. And I am wondering if some of these ideas came from the "article" at that link. The link is to a web site "satnaminfo" which promotes the teachings of an individual, "DassanDass." This person is running a baba ji style operation even though he says he is not. So consider the link on the left of the home page where a person can make as he puts it a "one off" daswandh contribution. And on a folowing web page he/someone says Dassan Dass is a private person, so if you want to know him better, then you can download his biography as a pdf file. I didn't do it because I was too flabber-ghasted. Here is is a private person - humble perhaps? But he has a press release about himself all ready and good to go.

    So I won't be commenting on your comments based on his comments. And would warn all forum members to be careful for two reasons: he may be collecting personal information; and he may be providing his own "mat" instead of Gurmat even though he says he is not.

    So let's see how far others get with your questions. I would only conclude by saying that Naam as "satnam" or as "waheguru" is part of "simran" but "simran" has a bigger meaning than the chanting the Name. Simran is one pillar but not the only pillar of Sikhi. All of the 3 pillars of Sikhi have many layers of meaning and they are interwined -- you cannot experience and practice one without the other. Lastly, simran as a practice is not restricted to Sikhs but is found among all dharmic faiths. I could be wrong, but I do not think it, the idea of a mantar for simran, was invented by Sri Guru Gobind Singh. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point.
     
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  9. Taranjeet singh

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    I think there is a confusion and the best thing is to leave the things here for the time being lest we enter into some sort of avoidable controversy. I do appreciate your advice and the pains that you might have taken in reading the article that surprised me as it might have surprised you as well.

    I give rest to this topic.
     
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  10. Taranjeet singh

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    On the move

    While Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is on the move the following is observed:

    • Five initiated Sikhs accompany Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at all times when traveling
    • Another Sikh does Chaur Sahib seva
    • The Main Sikh carrying Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji must put a clean Rumalla on his or her head before carefully and with respect placing Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji on this Rumalla. At all times, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji should be covered with a small Rumalla so that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's Saroop is always fully "covered".Also the Sikh carrying Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji must have "Keshi Ishnaan" or Washed hair [Although not necessary but it shows respect to Guru Sahib]
    • There should be recitation of "Waheguru" at all times.

    Guru Granth Sahib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  11. spnadmin

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    twinkle ji

    How is your post above related to the thread topic? Please provide some connections so we can follow your thinking. Thank you.
     
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  12. Taranjeet singh

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    The threads relates to Satnam and Waheguru i.e. the commonly accepted names that we use in Simran.There was some confusion that is why the thread was started.
    However, the thread did not have a smooth sail. The question that was intended to be posed in the first post was whether one should do simran on Waheguru or satnamm.
    It was the objective of the thread.

    Personally speaking, it is matter of individual's conviction as has been mentioned by various members of Gurumantra that was started by Soul -Jyot ji. I feel that here also satnam or waheguru is also a matter of conviction and faith. I thank you for responding.
     
  13. spnadmin

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    Actually you are asking, now that you have explained it again, a very broad philosophical question.

    I don't want to answer. Would prefer that others do so. There are many different approaches to responding to your query depending on the context of the simran that one might do.
     
  14. Taranjeet singh

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    In sikhism ,as I understand, the context of simran and jap is not variable. It is not a function of context at all. The context is, however, remembering HIM for 'sift salah' or 'Vadiai Veechaar'[ Eulogising].

    You know all these things.

    Amrit Vela ...........Vadai Veechar.

    Any respected member who is comfortable in replying to this may kindly like to post the views. I always have 'Guru Mantar' whenever I have to do this.


    To be edited..
     
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  15. spnadmin

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    By context, twinkle ji, I meant -- the context of simran. For some it means only what is chanted. For others it signifies a broader recitation of the shabad. For others it signifies living the shabad guru in a way that is always mindful of the Satguru. For others it is all 3.
     
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  16. Taranjeet singh

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    Your sense of humor is very well appreciated! We are discussing satnaam or Waheguru only.

    The context in the present case clear either satinam or waheguru.I understand that it is a personal matter and individual preferences need not be disclosed. Please ignore this post as well. The sole point of the thread was that It surprised me a little when I saw in the Link that there are people who focus on 'satnaam.

    The third alternative would be to do recitation of 'satnaam waheguru'..'satnaam wahe guru'

    and

    'Satnam waheguru ji.

    Gurufateh jeo and Best of regards!!
     
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  17. spnadmin

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    twinkle ji

    I was not trying to be humorous, but apologies if my remarks appeared humorous. Now that you have narrowed down the field of discussion, it might be helpful if you explained a little why you are asking why some people prefer Waheguru and others some version of Satnam Waheguru. Actually one that I know of is "Satnam Siri Waheguru." I would think that each of these mantars is preferred for different reasons. Maybe the discussion could turn in that direction.

    This is what I mean. There is a mantar Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam Sri Waheguru which is popular in 3HO. I just googled it and found out why it is a favored/favorite mantar. The web site reports that

    ... it is very powerful for awakening Kundalini and suspending the mind in bliss. Ek means "One, the essence of all", Ong is the primal vibration from which all creativity flows, Kar is "creation", Sat "truth", Nam "name" Siri "great", Wha "ecstasy," and Guru is "wisdom". Taken together it means, "There is one Creator whose name is Truth. Great is the ecstasy of that Supreme Wisdom"!


    So we have the mantar and with it the reason. That was what I was suggesting. I for one would not use this mantar because "Ek Ong Kar" is not how I understand these syllables to be phrased.
     
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  18. Taranjeet singh

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    Respected Ji,

    Very many Thanks for bearing with me very patiently.
    1. As to why I am asking this question :
    I know of Guru Mantar /Mool Mantar and Beej Mantar that is usually used by sikhs. I am not aware of if "satnaam' is also used Independently as any Mantar for recitation purpose.

    2. The 'satnam ' appeared in the discussion at the site refd. to in the post No.-1 As I was not aware of this word I posted this for general opinion. I came across this site when I was trying Google out the effect of mantras on Neurons as I felt very intoxicated ,as if drugged, when I began the process of recitation, very recently.That is how 'satnaam' came into picture. I only asked out of curiosity.

    3. I am only curious to know the opinions of other members about this. You have been kind enough to respond to my posts very many times and for that I am ever grateful.

    I have little words to thank you for the pains that you take in helping others and do recognize this self less service that you are rendering to the community at large. I am not an intelligent person but do understand the value of your service as you are knowledgeable and are always there to guide us whenever we have doubts. May HE Bless THEE for all this that you are doing.

    Yes, we are almost in monologue. Let some other member may also respond else let the thread have its circle and take rest for the time being or else as you deem fit and also forgive me for intrusion amounting to infringement of personal opinions if it seemed some one like this. It was never the intention and never shall be.

    With utmost regards.
    Taranjeet

    to be edited..
     
    #17 Taranjeet singh, Dec 11, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  19. Lee

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    As I undestand it Twinkle Ji what youare asking is what is correct to use when performing Simran, 'Satnaam' or 'Waheguru'?

    Myself I normaly use Wahguru, but I don't think it really matters. Simran is more than repition of this or that it is meditation upon the formless lord. In which case does it really matter which of Gods 1000 'lables' you use?


    Could not a Hindu perform Simram whilst chanting 'Ram ram'? Yes I think that is fine.
     
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  20. spnadmin

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    Thanks Lee ji,

    You are correct on the question regarding a Hindu performing Simran. In fact Hindus do perform Simran, and according to sect may chant any number of beatific names.

    What I am trying to get to the bottom of is this: Why would one chant one thing over another? For what spiritual reason or rationale? Without that all we need for the thread is a poll. (1) Do you chant Sat Nam? or (2) Do you chant Waheguru?

    Also, many people do not discuss their simran and would be reluctant to state what they chant. But they might be willing to discuss the spiritual rationale for one style of simran over another.

    The conversation is going in circles. I appreciate your input. It could lead to a broader discussion of simran that would be most informative.

    Narayanjot Kaur

    :happykaur:
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    As i said before..."rattan" or Parrotting of any one word is not even in the equation..Gurbani is NOT a Mantra..its JEEVAN JAACH..the RECIPE..the TOOL BOX for LIFE.

    People just pick up on ONE WORD..and say..AHA..here it is "NAAM"..this is it..this is what i ahve to repeat..and repeat..and i am done...ALL those shabads are there..BUT once ina while GURU JI makes it all so very very crystal clear..that we are left with no choice but to UNDERSTAND..the GURMATT..or continue with Blinkers ON...plodding on repeating mantras...

    Hear what Guru ramdass Ji says..at Page 304 of SGGS..
    “ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਬਣੀਐ॥ ” (ਪੰਨਾ 304)
    The Satgurus Bani is His sat Sroop....BECOME "GURBANI" !! Now how cna a person..become Gurbani ?? will he chnage his shape to a language//sound...paper..book form...written form...as THOSE are the Normal Forms of GURBANI we know of..as in SGGS..its in written form..in ink..on paper...can be read..heard..sung..looked at..etc. Are we expected to change into that..or else HOW to BECOME GURBANI ??
    The answer is SIMPLE....we have to BECOME what GURBANI TEACHES...we have to FOLLOW the RECIPE...USE the TOOLS provided to BECOME..as the SAT...whose GURBANI is there in SGGS... Why were the GURUS...GURU...they had the very same "human bodies" as you and Me...BUT the difference between them and us...is they had BECOME GURBANI..they were SAT..of SATGURU..the SATNAAM in PRACTISE !! not just chanters..mutterers of whatever word...Guru Arjun Ji was GURBANI..thats why the Burning Hot Plate couldnt hurt Him at all..He was TRUTH..the SAT...He was the "fire" below the Plate..He was the human body sitting on the plate...He was Himself..He was "Chnadu"..He was the Jalaad..he was "Jehangir"....while Me is merely "me" and You are "you"....the Fire will BURN me and burn YOU as equally...simply becasue we havent become GURBANI...we spend our time muttering and parotting..words..misinformed that we are doing "naam simran"..Naam Simran is NOT OUTSIDE..it CHANGES us form WITHIN.

    Heres what we call swaas swaas Naam Simran...SGGS Page 1256
    “ਬਿਨੁ ਜਿਹਵਾ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਹਿਆਇ॥ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੈਸਾ ਨਾਉ॥ ” (ਮਲਾਰ ਮਹਲਾ 1, ਪੰਨਾ 1256)
    Japping WITHOUT the TONGUE !! DOING IT..not muttering it...BECOMING NAAM..not "window shopping"...being actually INSIDE the shop..buying the merchandise and wearing it.....
    “ਹਿਰਦੈ ਜਪਉ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਲਾਵਉ ਸ੍ਰਵਨੀ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਏ॥ ਚਰਣੀ ਚਲਉ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕੈ ਰਸਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ॥” {ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ 5-ਪੰਨਾ 1204}
    SGGS page 1204....japp within..in the eyes keep His Image...dhian...ears listening to His vadaiyee..FEET walking along His Path...and the Tongue singing His Praises...
    In such a situation..one BECOMES the SAT...the GURBANI..no more evil deeds thoughts..no more enmies..no more haumai..jelaousy..everyone is loved...the "feet" always want only to walk His paath..the eyes always want His Image..the ears his sift salaah..his praises..the tongue always His Praises and never harsh words..words of enmity...words of anger..sarbatt da bhalla always...such a situation is BECOMING GURBANI !! This is Naam Simran.
    When we reach this stage of Becoming GURBANI/SAT..we begin to really SEE WAHEGURU..in His creation...everything becomes so WONDROUS...all those lovley flowers..animals..creatures big and small He created..the worlds..the stars..the oceans..all begin to be seen in a New LIGHT..WONDER..WAH WAH WAH GURU !!we see exactly as HE SEES....we do exactly as HE DOES...just see how wondrous He is..how much creation has already passed..how much is coming...how many seeds have grown..and returned to earth..how much water....how many joons..snowflakes..stars..galaxies..WAH WAH WAH GURU !!!
    Simply muttering one word..maybe waheguru/satnaam or something else..while holding jelaousy..haumai..anger..krodh..hankaar..pride..duality..greed etc etc alive WITHIN is a complete waste of time...will Never allow us to BECOME GURBANI !!! how can merely reading arecipe result us in tasting the cake..we have to read the recipe..buy the ingredients..prepare them..get the equipment..mix it all up..BAKE IT..and then even more important..PUT IT in our MOUTH to taste it...KHAVO..BHUNCHO..eat..chew..taste..digest..to get maximum benefit..or its all a waste of time..
    How does our Founder satguru nanak Ji describe this "WOW FACTOR"...read Page 463/464 vaar Asa of Sggs..
    “ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਦ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵੇਦ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਜੀਅ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੇਦ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੰਗ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਗੇ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜੰਤ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਉਣੁ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਾਣੀ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਅਗਨੀ ਖੇਡਹਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੀ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਖਾਣੀ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਦਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਪਰਾਣੀ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੁਖ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੋਗੁ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਉਝੜ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰਾਹ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੂਰਿ॥ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਾਜਰਾ ਹਜੂਰਿ॥ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਝਣੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ॥ 1॥ ” {ਸਲੋਕ ਮ:1, ਪੰਨਾ 463-464}...How we wonder ?? how great and wondrous He is ....wondering we too ENTER into the Vismaad stage..become GURBANI.....practically..IT is at THIS STAGE..wehn we cry out WAH WAH WAHEGURU..SPONTANEOUSLY...thats Naam Simran...and this is the stage which Bhahgat Kabir Ji describes..“ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਹੂ ਬਰੜਾਇ ਕੈ, ਜਿਹ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਿਕਸੈ ਰਾਮੁ॥ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਪਗ ਕੀ ਪਾਨਹੀ, ਮੇਰੇ ਤਨ ਕੋ ਚਾਮੁ॥ 63॥” (ਪੰਨਾ 1367)
    EVEN in DREAMS...the Wondrous Lord..WAHEGURU emerges from the MOUTH...Raam Raam is muttered by the sleeping human !!! This is TRUE Naam Simran..and this Stage is reached after PRACTISING LIVING and BECOMING GURBANI....something which a mechanically robotic repeater of just a word cannot hope to reach...he is more into "counting" how many wahegurus he said...

    A true naam simranning person attains the following..
    “ਕਾਲੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਨਹਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਾਉ॥ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਜਾਗੈ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਸੋਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪਿਆਉ॥ ਮੀਠਾ ਬੋਲੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਉ॥ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਵਾਸਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੋਹਦੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਉ॥ 2॥ ” {ਮ: 3, ਪੰਨਾ 853}
    A person who has killed his inner desires..the Maya moh..and is forever immersed in His Praises..is forever AWAKE spiritually and never sleeps in Maya...always speaks the sweet Amrti Bani of His SatGuru...Living His Gunns and..these are the people who are forever in SUKH..in His Company..they have BECOME GURBANI..have becoem the SAT as Guru ramdass Ji described...
    Abundantly CLEAR that GURBANI must be LIVED..practised...PRACTICALLY in REAL TIME..no tricks..no mantras..no jugglery...just plain LIVING and BECOMING GURBANI/SAT.:welcome:
     
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