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Controversial Sant Isher Singh Ji and Suleman the Ghost

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Abneet, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Abneet

    Abneet
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    Most of you probably heard this story on the internet about Sant Isher Singh Ji Maharaj having a conversation with a ghost who has possessed a Singh's body whom he previously knew. I know the whole thing sounds odd, but does anyone have verification that this happened? My grandpa told me that there are Sants that have had such things happen to them later in life, but he said he never heard such a story happen in Hapur. Then there's Sikhs on the net claiming their relatives of some other relatives were there when he (the ghost) was reincarnated. But than on my mom's side some say it was a childhood story that was actually true because how big it changed many Sikhs life into taking Sikhi more serious.

    So is this all a hoax? But whats really fascinating is how the ghost describes afterlife it kind of frightens you even he may be lying. It is amusing how he describes everything and too me it seems too real. It's intriguing.

    Heres the video in Urdu:

    <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/YiWEbzFQu5Q?hl=en_US&amp;version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/YiWEbzFQu5Q?hl=en_US&amp;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>


    Here's the story translated in English:

    http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/audio/Katha/Sant%20Isher%20Singh%20Ji%20(Rara%20Sahib)/Exorcism%20of%20Suleman%20Ghost/Reincarnation_of_a_ghost_ENG.pdf

    It is a good read indeed, but very odd if its all real.
     
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  3. SaintSoldier1699

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    The story is for those who would like to believe in the reincarnation theory of past life, prophecies and so called God like powers which "God" seems to need to outsource to "some" of its created beings to ease the heavy burden of amount of work he needs to do transporting souls to and from old to new bodies and obviously slipping up and missing one or two.

    It's great marketing for a dera that has grown and grown based on tall tales and sparking fear by abusing sukhmani Sahib and people seem to flock to it. Yet on a Gurmat level their practices, discourses are quite opposite to Gurmat and personally I think this was just a way to get people to think he was that age's Guru Nanak as reiterated in the recording by the kid, which a lot of his followers believed him to be.

    But on a level of common sense the story is flawed beyond belief. :peacesign:
     
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  4. Abneet

    Abneet
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    It seems authentic to me, but I don't know why would they record it in the first place. Does sound like the work of a dera but how the tape describes afterlife and everything with it is a eye opener.
     
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  5. aristotle

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    Grimm's Fairy Tales are a seriously better read. :carefreemunda:

    Jokes apart, this is another attempt to hardsell the Dera and cultish views to the unsuspecting people. Sad to say, things like these come many-a-penny these days. 'Possession' of a body by a ghost can not even remotely be considered in the Sikh philosophy, in fact it is these kind of myths Guru Nanak Sahib spent his life crusading against. So, if these people are really concerned about Sikh philosophy, they are doing a lot of harm and no good.
     
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  6. Abneet

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    After I read the story I felt the only spiritual guidance for me is the Guru Granth Sahib nothing else there really isn't anything I can learn from this story
     
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  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I did not listen to the tape, the description was enough, however, two points, what qualification do you have to confirm authenticity? and the afterlife could consist of being showered in cold custard whilst having your bottom whipped by a 2 foot dwarf wearing leather, who could argue whether it was true or not?

    I guess we can only hope...
     
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  8. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
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    I have looked at the website, read the story, I have only thing to say, the tenth master on his death proclaimed 'Guru maneo Granth', its a pity that deras up and down India feel it is more appropriate for humans to take that place.
     
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  9. spnadmin

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    Abneet ji

    Not exactly a dera. Sant Isher Singh is a founder of a sect within Sikhi that has a lot of followers (SikhGyani has corrected me, see below. This Isher Singh is of Rara Sahib) ... a lot of money, and a television station - I believe located in Amritsar. Their reach is immense. This last part is correct. The Isher Singh of the video is Isher Singh of Rara Sahib and a member of the following of Baba Nand Singh, and there is a lot of money and a television station. Hope that clears things up.

    Enjoy the fun. Their music is really good. They do go in for the :woohoo: aspects of religion. Here I stand firm

    p/s The sect is the Nanaskar tradition. I stand corrected on this point. The video is of Isher Singh of Rara Sahib, not Nanaskar.
     
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  10. SaintSoldier1699

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    SPNAdmin ji after seeing you woohoo smillie and after a number of years of joining SPN I have just noticed the [More] link next to the Smillies heading doh! All these years I could have expressed myself more in pictures than words.

    I'm interested whats the difference between a Dera and a Sect? Is it just that a Sect is more established in numbers/years to be known as a separate branch off the main tree?

    So this should explain what I would have wrote not knowing their was a smillie for that already! :work:
     
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  11. spnadmin

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    SaintSoldier1699 ji

    Well you have me laughing now so hard it hurts. And there is no smiley for that!

    I could be wrong, but I think of a dera as more localized to one region, one temple or gurdwara, one head or guru. And yes, the sect would be more established; but also its reach might be farther. In the case of Nanaskar there are temples throughout the US and England, perhaps Canada. A sect might also have made more skillful use of media, including TV, major web sites with international reach, and Internet video channels.
     
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  12. SaintSoldier1699

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    Glad I made you laugh!

    I always thought of a dera/sect kind of interchangeable when it came to defining offshoots of Sikhi. I.e. they are driven by holy men, and when they leave this world they are worshiped even more, i.e. in quite a few cases their possessions are worshiped. Never really looked at it in the way of resources but I see your point :yes:
     
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  13. SikhGiani

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    baba isher singh ji didnt find nanaksar or any tradition. The word Dera just means 'place of" so as an example your house would be your dera. Its a old word people would use to say where a person lived.
     
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  14. spnadmin

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    Forgive me SikhGyani ji. I can only go by what I have read.

    Isher Singh Nanaskar
    http://www.{url not allowed}/gurbani/artist/baba-isher-singh-nanaksar

    and

    Isher Singh Rara Sahib
    http://www.{url not allowed}/gurbani/artist/sant-baba-ishar-singh-rara-sahib

    So it may be a matter of which Sant is under review. The video attributes Rara Sahib. So you are correct. I had the wrong Isher Singh. I have corrected my earlier statement.

    "dera" is often used to designate a place of worship - for example, Dera Sacha Sauda. Again it depends on which usage of the word is under review.
     
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  15. Ikk Khalsa

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    I remember listening to this back home when I was little. One of our neighbour who was Ishar Singh devotee brought this cassette from Karmsar and had everyone listen to it. Back then I believed it however now I just listen to admire the scary sound effects in the background :mad:NO@::mad:NO@:
     
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  16. Abneet

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    I think really most parents have heard the tape when they were little as to scare them about what might happen to them :singhsippingcoffee

    It l probably was used to frighten Sikhs into taking Sikhi more in depth but that's in my opinion. Truly if I heard this in the 70's :lol: I'd be frightened.

    I really don't know about the authenticity of the tape, but from other people on other Sikh websites claiming Baba Isher's servants were there and experienced it. Now I don't even live in India, but I can probably say what everyone else has concluded.

    The whole story was entertaining, but really a ghost possessed a body that was {censored word, do not repeat.} on his grave? Out of 1 billion people it was the guy he was looking for the whole time lol. Odd.

    Wait even during the conversation the ghost said don't put me in a family where they eat meat and drink alcohol how do you think I will get liberation? MEAT? OH NO NOT THIS TOPIC. haha
     
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  17. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    DERA is a PHYSICAL PLACE...SECT is widespread...Nanaksar started out as aDERA..now its a SECT and has multiple DERAS called THHATHS all over the world..Malaysia has a few as well....

    The Rara sahib, Bibi kaulaan, Dhadrianwallah.. etc etc are OFF SHOOTS of NANKSAR...

    simialrly the BEAS DERA has several deras all over..all run by the RADHASOAMI SECT..off shoots of this are Ram rahim Sauda Dera..and many many thousands all over the world..

    The NAMDHARESS also have deras.the PIPLI WALLAH is an OFFSHOOT as well..what LINKS all of these SECTS/DERAS is beleif on HUMAN GURU...and MISUSE of SGGS to plagiriase...but not follow its teachings..these are all DEHDHAREES..and as is usual..EACH "new SANT" wants ALL the GOLUCK for HIMSELF..hence new deras..off shoots..naturally...
     
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  18. SikhGiani

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    No Dhadrianwale and rara sahib are not off shoots of Nanaksar.
    In a way you could say SGPC is a mega dera/sect because they own so many gurdwaras and they are known to abandon gurdwaras that dont make enough money. If someone makes people call him sant or anyother names they should be condemned, but this narrow vision you seem to have that all deras are bad is not helping either.
     
  19. SikhGiani

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    In one of baba waryam singh jis old divans he mentions this tape. Also, i believe the audio was recorded in the 70s. Who would these people be giving this tape to listen to since not alot of people had cassette players. just something to think about.

    Here is another example sangat might like
    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xNaUdYfUWXA" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
     
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  20. Abneet

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    Why would Sant Ji distribute this conversation to the public in the first place. It makes no sense. Also I heard Bhai Maskeen Singh Ji had a similar experience where a Sikh woman who did a Muslim prayer in between katha. Anyone verify this for me or is this just another spook.
     
  21. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Dhadriwallah and Rara derawallahs ..as well as RAGIS like Jagadhree wallah harbans singh, and a few others....all follow NANAKSAR Maryada..BOTH Dhadriwallah and Rara Valleh frequently QUOTE the Nnaksaree founders..Ishar singh and nand singh in their kathas as WADDEH BABA JI...thats the hallmark of being an OFFSHOOT.

    The NANAKSAREE SECT is really a MEGA SECT...with its tentacles spread wide..

    Listen to their Kirtan where they WAIL LOUDLY at the passing of their DEAD sants...which is totally against Sikh maryada as taught by the GURU...

    The SGPC is an ELECTED BODY of SIKHS ( notwithstanding the fact that the election process my be flawed/corrupted etc by vote buying etc etc and that BADAL controls it remotely..)...and theoratically any SIKH can stand to become a MEMBER and its EXECUTIVE makes decisions...ha s a BUDGET published for opublic scrutiny etc ..NO DERA/SECT has this provision..( publish a copy of the Executive commitee of nanaksar/rarravallah/dhadriwallah or their budgets expenses accounts if they have any) NO SIKH can ever become a SANT in charge of The DERAS of nanaksar..see the EPIC BATTLE for Control fo rarar dera betwen the WIDOW of waryam Singh and the SECOND in Command who was led along the Garden path by Waryam singh that HE would be the NEXT Leader of Rarra....while Waryam Singh who had actually wanted his WIFE to control his WEALTH !!! An EPIC Battle for control thus resulted when Waryam died and his WIFE annoucned the DERA was HERS by WILL...but unfortunately the Second In Command ahd also worked well and had a lot of sikhs follwoing him...finally the WIFE and the second in Command came to a MUTUALLY SATISFYING AGREEMENT....which transparently reveals the TRUTH about all this rarra dera...same story as beas..sacha sauda..dhadriwallah etc etc..all PERSONAL CONTROL DERAS...
     
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