Same word, Different spelling

Discussion in 'Sikh Sikhi Sikhism' started by Sher_Singh, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Sher_Singh

    Sher_Singh SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Guru Fateh.

    As I read Bani I have noticed one thing, as i am sure you all may have to. Why is it that in Gurmukhi, for one word there are different spellings???

    For example:

    The spelling of Nanak in some places it is spelt like nwnk
    And in some places it is spelt like nwnku and nwnik

    Why is this?? They are the same word and I know there is a reason for this. Is it injunction with the context it is written in or is their another reason?? I have seen this occur with many, many other words in Bani.

    Could someone please shed some light onto this. Thank you.

    Guru Fateh.
     
  2. Arvind

    Arvind Supporter Content Master SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    Canada
    Sher Singh ji,

    As you know there are different fonts like arial, times roman etc, similarly for gurumukhi writings on PC, different fonts exist such as gurbaniakhar, lipiheavy etc. And they have got different code working for them in the background, hence the difference in spelling. Actually, such kind of words, which are giving different spellings to you are meant to be seen by highlighting those contents, and then viewing those in a particular gurmukhi related font. That way, there wont be any concern as you mentioned.

    Hope that helps.
     
  3. Sher_Singh

    Sher_Singh SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sevadaar Singh Ji,

    What i am reffering to is the Gurbani itself. If you read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you will notice that the spelling of the word Nanak is different in places.

    In some places it is spelt - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "kakka"

    And in some places it is spelt - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "kakka" "aunkar"

    And - "nanna" "kanna" "nanna" "sihari" "kakka"

    I am not reffering to fonts etc. I am reffering to the actual Gurmukhi Script as you read Gurbani.

    What I want to know is why there are different speeling for the same word in Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

    I hope that cleared my question up a bit.

    Guru Fateh.
     
  4. Arvind

    Arvind Supporter Content Master SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks for clearing up the point Sher Singh ji. I got your point. This kind of thing like sihari and aunkar at the last akhar, has got special meaning, which I used to hear from Kathavachaks but now dont remember that. I will try to get hold of more information about Guru Sahib ji's vocabulary. Only thing, I may say, those are not different names for same Nanak, however those are different ways of sentence formation in the Guru Sahib ji's vocabulary.

    Thanks.
     
  5. Sher_Singh

    Sher_Singh SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thank you Sevadaar Singh Ji. Please could you clear this up for me as soon as possible. I am greatful for the seva you will provide.

    Guru Fateh.
     
  6. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    14,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Educator-Missionary of Sikhism
    Location:
    KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki Fateh.

    Off hand this use of aunkar and siharee in GURBANI is the unique "gurbani grammar"...

    The main NANAK ( nanna, kanna, nanna, kakka ) is Guru Nanak Ji.

    The second Nan(i)k nanna, kanna, siharee, kakka..is used to denote NANAK NE.
    Example in simple Punjabi: Eh paani kihnee dohlia hai ? Who spilled this water ?
    The answer in Punjabi would be: Nan(ik)...meaning NANAK NE panee dohliah.In English this SIHAREE would be :"BY"...This water was spilled BY Nanak.
    Gurbani tuk" sach naam kartar su dirrh nan(i)k sangrihiuh... THe True Naam of KARTAR was DDirrh revealed BY nanak
    The use of the aunkar at the end of certain words comes due to transition of Sanskrit vocabulary and sanskrti grammar into Punjabi...the aunkar denotes soemthing grammarians call Accusative Singular/Plural. The aunkar can mean "FROM"...Simple example as above: Question - Eh paani kis ton dulliah ? Who spilled this water... Answer: Nanna, kanna,nannna kakakk(aunkar) means: Nanak ton The Water got spilled from Nanak ( Accusative Verb)..

    The whole thing is very very complicated. IF you can do get hold of the Book: Gurbani Grammar by Prof sahib Singh ( it is in Punjabi). It is a 450 page book that explains all the Grammar used in gurbani that makes GURBANI unique in Punjabi Literature. Noteworthy is that our Guurs used "punjabi Grammar" to change words borrowed from Sanskrti/Farsee etc.

    Before Prof sahib Singh came out with his GURU DARPAN and proper systematic explanation of the UNIQUE Grammar used in GURBANI, it was generally thought that the siharee aunkars used in Gurbani were "superflous". In fact Macauliffe went to the Head Priests and Gyanis of his time to elarn why these were used in Gurbani and the answer he got was" we dont know...they are just there, we suppose. Worse those Groups and Jathas claiming to be the original teachers of Gurbani were stressing on Saying Gurnani as it is Written...stressing on PRONOUNCING the Siharees and Aunkars as and when they ocurred.... for example SHAH(aunkar) is PROPER NOUN denoting SHAH a moneylender/banker/rich man..reference to WAHEGURU..is to be pronounced SHAH..and NOT as "SHAH UH" ... The word SHAH_HU has NO MEANING and doesnt EXIST...and it is a travesty to pronounce it like that..YET thousands of paathis who have learnt paath from traditionals read this Tuk (just before Slok mah Novaan begins) as SHAH_HU with a LONG drawn out HAEK... SHAH_huuuuuu... similarly SATGU(i)R means SATGUR NE..BY SATGUR.....and to pronounce it as SATGUREH is wrong as NO such word exists and it has no meaning.

    Now that the Gurbani Grammar has become common knowledge, and Prof sahib singh's Darpan has made things very clear, the TRADITIONAL Groups are also changing their TUNE..and saying they knew all along about this VIAKARAN !! Strange but true ??? IF they really descend direct from Guuru Gobind Singh Ji ( Heard Gurbani AArths direct from guru ji)..:) and knew this all along then why teach wrong pronounciations and tell macauliffe that these aunkars siharees are superflous.

    Jarnail Singh
     
  7. Prabjyot Kaur

    Prabjyot Kaur SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Developer
    Location:
    US
    The book is reffered as 'Gurbani Viakaran'. Read Professor Sahib Singh ji's punjabi Viakhia of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji at http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/index.html
     
  8. Arvind

    Arvind Supporter Content Master SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    Canada
    Gyani ji,

    That s an awesome piece of information. Proper pronunciation itself reveals meaning a few times. I think, Santhia is the right word for this. I believe, I am going to look for such words when I read Guru Sahib ji.

    Prabjyot ji, thanks for providing the link. I am sure, this is going to help us a lot.

    Best Regards.
     
  9. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    14,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Educator-Missionary of Sikhism
    Location:
    KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

    Yes Bhen Ji Prabjyot kaur Jio, you are right. By the way I love the viakhia of Sri Sukhmani Sahib Ji that you are presenting on another thread. This si the type of work we need to present to the Youth so that real UNDERSTANDING of Gurbani is empahasised instead of just matha teking and respect. Please do continue till completion and May waheguru Ji Bless you.

    jarnail Singh
     
  10. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    14,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Educator-Missionary of Sikhism
    Location:
    KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
    Waheguru Ji Ka Khasla waheguru Ji Ki fateh.

    Yes Veer Ji, If we are really blessed we will find a "Santhiya Teacher" that knows the aarths as well as correct pronounciation......and has read widely so that many Historical, mythological, allegorical, references, as well as references to other religious granths , puranas , veds, simritis, places are mentioned in Gurbani cna be properly explained and linked to our santhiya.
    My late Dad Gyani drabara Singh Ji daler who apssed away in 1982 was blessed to get santhiya from Baba Gurbachan Singh Of Bhinderawaleh taksaal and that "santhiya" was like repeating the same AAng 25 times daily....each of the 25 or so students repeated the same aang 25 times and it went round and round..while Baba Ji had a nice big slotar ji ( heavy stick) in his hand and even if he was resting ( looks like sleeping)..a slight mistake would get a slotar jis' loving pat on the back.... the result of this was thta my dad knew the entire Guru Ji by Heart... one just had to quote a single line..and he would tell us the AAng, Author, Name of Shabad and start reciting the entire shabd and continue...or even REVERSE backwards to previous aangs shabads etc..It didnt matter if the line we knew was from the beginning, middle or end..or it was just partial. And the beauty of it all was that in additon dasam Granth, sarb loh garnth, Prem Sumarag granth, various Sanskrti Granths etc etc were also taught and dasam banis memeorised as well... Sadly today neither do we as students ahve time for such comprehensive santhiyas....and neither can we get such teachers everywhere. Thank Waheguru Ji for the Blessings of the INTERNET that at least now these resources are widely available for thsoe of us who have the "time".. Although I learnt my paath from my father... I am the one who knows that I only "know" about 10% of what he knew..and I am sure He in turn "knew" about 30% of what Baba gurbachan Singh jI "knew"...and my children whom I taught Gurbani paath know even less....this is how our valuable knowledge is getting diluted... This is becasue my dad had access to other knowledge besides Gurbani etc..like ENGLISH.SCIENCE,Chemistry etc..... I had access to knowledge that my dad never had..like computers, internet, economics etc....and my children have access to knowledge I never knew..like advanced Physics, Mechanics etc etc..so the "GURBANI PART" gets less attenton and time because we also have to compete in careers etc while Baba Ji's total " career " was GURBANI and only Gurbani.

    Jarnail singh
     
  11. Sher_Singh

    Sher_Singh SPNer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Guru Fateh.

    Gyani Ji, thank you so very very much for that post!!!!! At least now I have some sort of an idea about Gurbani grammer. :D I will now try my best to find such books that explain such grammer; God willing it will broaden my knowledge of Guru Ji.

    Prabjyot Kaur Ji, I also thank you for that link. It gives me a better insight to Gurbani.

    I am sure what i have learned now will allow me to see Guru Ji from a different perspective.

    Guru Fateh.
     
  12. Neutral Singh

    Neutral Singh Supporter SPNer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,015
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Public Service
    Gyani Ji, with people like yourself around with the sikh youth of today, there is still a ray of hope left... May Waheguru bless you with enough motivation to continue with your mission divine to spread the message of Guru Ji with this vigor and dedication...

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khasla waheguru Ji Ki fateh !!
    Chardi Kalaa
     
  13. Arvind

    Arvind Supporter Content Master SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    Canada
    Gyani ji, Reading your posts is such a pleasure. A feeling of saadh sangat comes up, as if you are talking with us through your posts. Keep guiding us ji.

    Regards.
     
  14. Prabjyot Kaur

    Prabjyot Kaur SPNer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Developer
    Location:
    US
    Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

    Giani Virji, it is refreshing to read your posts; wish I had 'time' to read them all. You have ver well analysed that how Gurbani is diluting from our lives generation by generation. We are not devoting as much as time as we should to the 'real' cause of this life.

    The story of your respected father sahib, learning from Baba Gurbachan singh ji reminded me of the Dera of Bhai Mani singh Taksal that we visited recently. Baba Makhan Singh ji has adopted hundred of students from various villages whose parents could not provide for them. These studetns only learn Gurbani like you mentioned above. I could not beleive that how much & how correctly they recite & have memorized Gurbani. They are much more blessed than us. We are busy taking care of our present world, while they are collecting wealth for their real destination.

    And thank you for the words of encouragement for Sukhmani Sahib Viakhia. It helped me to listen carefully before tying it.

    With Best regards,
    Prabhjot Kaur
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Sawa lakh se EK larraoan Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,636
    Likes Received:
    14,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Educator-Missionary of Sikhism
    Location:
    KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
    Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki fateh.


    THANK YOU all for the vote of confidence....and Pyaar.
    I will try to live up to the high standards you have set for me....!!! With Satguru Ji's Help of course.

    Jarnail Singh
     

Share This Page