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Same-sex marriage... By RAMANDEEP KAUR GREWAL and T. SHER SINGH

Discussion in 'Sikh News' started by CaramelChocolate, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate SPNer

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  2. Singh Balbir

    Singh Balbir SPNer

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    No action which is against the nature is acceptable. Why one should marry? If the answer is just to satisfy the lust or have a companian then same sex marriage may be justied by the people who think so. But if the answer is to live a meaningful life as per law of nature then same sex marriage has no place in the civilised society. Further, there was no need to give a statement on the issue by Vandenty Ji. What to say of sikhism no religion justify same sex marrige.
     
  3. vijaydeep Singh

    vijaydeep Singh SPNer

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    Gurfateh

    sometime some people can be congentaily homosexual,das knew this from some medical thing but does need further clarifaction from docter members of this forum.
     
  4. Hardkaur

    Hardkaur SPNer

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    I see no reason why gay people shouldnt marry. Sikhism believes in the will of God, whatever God does God does for a reason. Therefore if God has made certain people Gay there must be reason behind it, or else why would he do so? Besides there are millions of orphans in the world, and gay people can adopt them and give them homes. Besides even though you may or maynot believe in the way gay people live there lives, everyone has the right to live there lives the way they choose to, besides gay people marrying is NOT going to effect my life or the life of any other straight person, so why get so worked up over it. Let the Gays have there rights to, I mean they are people are they not?
     
  5. moorakh

    moorakh SPNer

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    Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh Ji!

    I think there are two questions here:

    1. Does Sikhi accept same sex marriages?

    2. How should we, as sikhs, treat people who are homosexuals?

    #1: I think, we all would agree, that sikhism, like all religions, envisions marriage, as the union of a man, with a woman, following the laws of nature, as a step to working together to be one with the Guru. Sikhi does not approve of homosexuality.

    (# 2) At the same time, we have been taught by the Gurus to respect ALL human beings , for they are a part of Vaheguru's creation: By definition, we would treat homosexuals just like we treat anyone else. (Unlike some faith communities/sects, who propagate hatred against gays & lesbians)

    Bhul Chuk Maaf,
    moorakh
     
  6. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate SPNer

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    What is natural is NOT the same as what is moral.
    IF homosexuality is UNNATURAL then it does not make it immoral and vice versa.
    Sikhs DO NOT believe in St Thomas Aquinas' natural law and should not bow down to CATHOLIC influences.
    LUST is natural. That is what makes going against any vice so hard. We must GO AGAINST our instincts in order to be moral.
    As far as I am concerned it is attachment to one's own heterosexuality that creates hatred for homosexuals and heterosexist 'ideals'.
    It works in the following way
    A. I have a desire
    B. I do not have a desire for what others could possibly desire
    C. Everybody should have my desire since I have no desire for what others may possibly desire, hence their desire is immoral and wrong as it provokes no desire within me
    D. My individuated morality should become individuated to everyone

    This type of logic does not work, we are all in different positions. This is similar to a White British living in the UK expecting all Sikhs to have short hair, bleach their skin and go to the pub every Saturday night.
     
  7. anders

    anders SPNer

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    I haven't delved too much in principles applicable here, but would like to ask you if you're pursuing a career in Religious studies or Philosophy? If you do, I wish you luck in addition to your profound powers of reasoning and general knowledge. I hope to be alive long enough to see where you end up!
    Not necessarily. I have been attached, often and sometimes rather intensely, to a number of girls/women. So far, I haven't had any similar feelings towards any male. You could say that I'm attached to my heterosexuality. But I accept that there are people enjoying other flavours of life, and don't by definition (or by definition don't) rule out that I might change my mind to be more all-inclusive.
     
  8. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh Supporter Analyst SPNer

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    I am straight myself, but I have never had problems with homosexuality or same sex marriages. Veer ji says that this is not natural, but homosexual relationships exist in the animal kingdom too.

    Then people say these relationships are based on Kaam (Lust), because they cannot have children. Is that not the same for hetrosexual couples who cannot have children?

    Sikhism says nothing about homosexuality. The only thing Sikhism talks about is marriage being a Union of souls.....and as far as I understand the soul is Genderless!!!!! ;)
     
  9. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer

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    i think that
    same sex marriages should be avoided in sikhism but should be accepted if one wishes to do so.
    which animals are homosexual .. i am sorry i do not know of a single one.

    i had an argument on this aspect but i forgot it lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2006
  10. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate SPNer

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    bhagatsingh- how many animals do you know?
     
  11. Ishna

    Ishna Sikhish Writer SPNer

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    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL

    For your perusal on the topic of homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom.

    Personally I am divided on the issue. I think it's difficult for people who are not gay to rule on what gay people can and cannot do. It's like a man or a woman trying to tell the opposite gender how they should feel and how to behave.

    I tend to agree with BhagatSingh, discouraged but accepted.

    And on the "natural" debate, marriage itself is not natural, it is a human-created institution. Should we not get married?

    Randip Singh: sort of a derailment of topic, but isn't the soul considered "female" and God considered "male"? I can understand it if the terms "yin" and "yang" are used, or "positive" and "negative"... is that what is being referred to in Gurbani and the genders are a metaphor?

    Thanks.
     
  12. hps62

    hps62 Member

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    I THINK AS A SIKH WE RESPECT AND CARE FOR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.
    What They see in a movie I saw long back "BORN FREE "

    If some one enjoys homosexuality let him or her do it.
    It may be against the majortiy of peoples way of life.

    But then if every thing is Gods creation so is then Homosexuality .

    If it is not hurting you , why should we be affected.

    let every one enjoy his or her freedom .

    love

    hps62
     
  13. Singh Balbir

    Singh Balbir SPNer

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    I also do not know whether homosexual relationship exist between animals or not. But I am sure animals never marry. As far as human being case what to say of same sex marriage, he or she may like to marry even animals & under the pretext of freedom we can say there is nothing wrong. I have read in news paper that even some people use animals to satisfy their lust & it may be possible animals also enjoying it. But is it OK? Further, as per sikhism, marriage is between male & female, however, for a sucessful marriage union of soul of husband & wife is must.
     
  14. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh Supporter Analyst SPNer

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    There was a programme on tv about homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom. I would do a google search for homosexual behaviour in the animal kingdom.
     
  15. Randip Singh

    Randip Singh Supporter Analyst SPNer

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    Are there not references in Bani to Unions of Souls and the soul being genderless?

    IS Dhillons post on this issue is brilliant....I recommend you all read:

    http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002019
     
  16. Singh Balbir

    Singh Balbir SPNer

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    It is wrong to say that every thing is God's creation. What to say of God, no sensible person will ever like to do or say others to do a wrong thing. Every body is required to follow some basic rules in life & promote good culture in the society. If one get enjoyment in doing wrong thinghs, which may not be directly affecting others but indirectly spoiling the society, is not acceptable. Actually, we donot know what the ultimate goal of our life. Otherwise no body will think about enjoyment by doing unnatural acts.
     
  17. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate SPNer

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    Balbir Singh, I do not feel you are taking on board everyone's view points. I have already commented on what is natural and morality.

     
  18. Ishna

    Ishna Sikhish Writer SPNer

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    I'm with Caramel... Mmmmm, caramel *drools* hahaha.

    Are animals not natural?
     
  19. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh SPNer

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    i dont know of any animals as mentioned in my previous post

    humans marrying animals ok now thats very unnatural <-- we shud be against this but again we have to accept it at the same time
    humans using animals to satisfy their lust .. ok i think it shud keep them from raping other humans because rapes occur due to lust
     
  20. CaramelChocolate

    CaramelChocolate SPNer

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    Oh sorry I thought you were trying to say you do not know of any homosexual animals but you know some animals in general or something.

    Accepting homosexuality DOES NOT open other avenues such as rape, paedophilia and beastiality. These things should never be accepted by any society because of the issue of consent.

    Like I have said previously not all morality or rules can be generalised. It is like telling a paralysed muslim from the neck down to pray salah like every other Muslim. So just because someone may agree that being gay is morally acceptable, does not mean everyone should be gay. Accepting homosexuality does not even mean you accept premarital relations or promiscuity. Morality is about principle, and if you want to you can believe that homosexuals should have sex within a same-sex marriage only.

    I am not going to comment on the issue anymore of what is unnatural is immoral.
     

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