Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji,

Guru Fateh.

Whatever Religion, Guru, Tradition,Faith or Path you may belong to, it seems that it does not teach you or you have not learnt from it to greet or address people in any manner especially when it is you who asks questions and admits that you are full of contradictions. I would not blame this to the upbringing but your own lack of respect towards others with whom you are trying to interact with or rather ask question to.

That is the reason perhaps, as Aad ji mentioned you use "AT" which is a proposition used for throwing or lancing rather than addressing when one wants to sincerely learn or inquire or interact. Giving the benefit of the doubt is a good ingredient to avoid this inner dillema or conflict.

sadhu;95138]at vaheguruseekr, lalihayer, amarpal, pk70, aad0002

I am not worried about whatever you believe in, you may believe in gurugranthsahib or anything whtsoever, but the thing that i am really happy about is that you guys have atleast read my posts, because whatever i say in my posts is totally upsidedown of your tradition.
I am greatly thankful to all of you, who have atleast read, and replied to my post.
I might have hurted your sentiments, sorry for that.

Well, I have no idea why would you be worried. All of us have responded to the best of our ability. Your next line contrardicts your intiial question about SGGS in the thread which is ok as you did mention that you like to contradict which does breed lack of conviction in anything one says,believes in or practices.

We are all Sikhs ( You may call yourself that or not is entirely up to you), Seekers, Learners and Students. It is our duty to read and discuss what is being mentioned. This is the only way to learn and is also the main objective of the forum.

In the end you contradict yourself again as by claiming " because whatever i say in my posts is totally upsidedown of your tradition. "

This is one of your many preconceived conclusions. In this statement you claim to know more about others than about yourself. Which is o.k. with me.

In conclusion, I must say that I like some of your questions, however I pick and choose the questioning of people who ask them while wearing the inner veil for whatever their personal reasons may be and readily admit that they lack conviction in what they are saying. For me a Sikh is the one who does not hide.

Regards and good luck in journey.

Tejwant Singh

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

SGGS is the gateway to the true metamorphosis. Shabad Guru makes us become butterflies from the crawling caterpillars so we can savour its nectar.

Tejwant Singh

What a beautiful expression about the true power of Sree Guru Granth Sahib Ji !:happy:

 

[pk70]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

1.
I am not worried about whatever you believe in, you may believe in gurugranthsahib or anything whtsoever, but the thing that i am really happy about is that you guys have atleast read my posts, because whatever i say in my posts is totally upsidedown of your tradition. I am greatly thankful to all of you, who have atleast read, and replied to my post.I might have hurted your sentiments, sorry for that.(quote sadhu ji)
2

If there was any divine nectar, the Sikh Youth would not have been drifted away from their faith, just by some stupid bollywood movies and the western culture. As i can see almost 90 percent of Sikh Youth with haircuts and most of them dont even know A,B,C of gurbani. ..(quote sadhu ji)

Sadhu ji

As aad ji has expressed her thanks to you for asking good question, we Sikhs don’t care what the intentions of a questioner are. You really want to bring our tradition upside-down, so be it; however, all the answers Sikhs have given here is a testimony of their faith in SGGS ji. We don’t expect others to believe what we do. In Dlbirk ji post you might have noticed why SGGS ji our Guru. The people who think we bow before a holy book are ignorant because we bow to the fragrance of the Guru. It is the same fragrance which is called “Nectar” by Laihayer Ji. You questioned that too by bringing what is going on in Punjab and in young Sikhs circles. In this context, my simple question to you is “If a teacher teaches a class and some of the students not only pass but get high marks and there are some who just fail. How we can say that there is no teaching power in the teacher?”
This is a forum to discuss some issues without disrespecting any one, you have brought some issues and we have tried to contribute to that. Whatever conclusion you take out of it is really not our concern. People who are not participating in the debate are also reading your questions and the answers given in that regard, that alone serves the aim of the forum. Thanks for asking questions[/FONT]

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Vaheguru seekr ji

I am sorry about my "'at", but i never intentionally tried to disrespect you or anyone in the forum, and you dont need to say sadhu "ji", i am okay with sadhu, or whatever you want to call me. But i sincerely appologize if i hurted you.

In conclusion, I must say that I like some of your questions, however I pick and choose the questioning of people who ask them while wearing the inner veil for whatever their personal reasons may be and readily admit that they lack conviction in what they are saying. For me a Sikh is the one who does not hide.

I dont always ask questions because i dont know the answers, sometimes i do ask, so that i can understand others point of view about something, so that i can understand what others think about something. But yes, sometimes i myself dont know the answer.
If you feel that i was intentionally trying to hide something, and throw questions, well then that is not the case. I was asking, to learn not to disrespect anyone.
Again i can see that i really have hurted you, so i am really sorry dear......

Sacheeeeee Mucheeeeeeeeeee di sorry,..,.,.,, not a formal one.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The following was mentioned on GLZ site:


There is a section of Sikhs who believe that at Nander Sahib in 1708,
Dasam pita said that he would always be present in Sangat. He merged
his identity with Khalsa : "Guru Khalsa ji maneo pargat guran ki Deh".
However, they do accept that Guru ji did ordain Guru Granth Sahib as
the eternal Guru before his death when he teko matha to Adi Granth
with five paisa coins and a coconut. They fully revere and worship
Granth Sahib.

The Dohra was developed by Bhai Prahlad Singh, a contemporary of
Guru Gobind Singh ji and somewhat changed by Giani Gian Singh.
Nothing is known for sure what Guru ji actually said.

Popular opinion is that he declared both Khalsa and Guru granth as
Guru - Guru panth Guru Granth


Prahlad Singh wrote :
* Guru Khalsa Manyo Prakat Guran Ki Deh
* Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Sabad Mein Leh.

Please note that Bhai Prahlad Singh wrote that Guru Granth Sahib is
the Guru, but the Deh (body) of the Guru is the Khalsa. (As Guru
Gobind Singh himself said that 5 Khalsa's - Panj Pyare are equal
to the Guru)


Giani Gian Singh wrote :
Guru Granth Ji manyo pargat Guran ki deh
Jo Prabhu ko milbo chahe khoj shabad mein le

....

"Agya Bhai Akal Ki Tabe Chalyo PanthSabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo
Granth" is common in both
...

Now in Gurdwaras Gian Singh's version is prevalent, though Gian Singh
was a Nirmala Sikh and wrote it in the last quarter of the 19th century.
There is a strong tradition behind Giani Gian Singh's Dohra

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-zone/messages

 

[spnadmin]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

VaheguruSeekr ji

There are some controversies surrounding the idea that the khalsa panth is Guru -- it may be guru with a small "g," The claim is argued pro and con in a number of ways.

ARguments tend to

BTW - I joined the learning zone. Thanks for the link.

 

[Archived_Member5]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Please note that Bhai Prahlad Singh wrote that Guru Granth Sahib is
the Guru, but the Deh (body) of the Guru is the Khalsa. (As Guru
Gobind Singh himself said that 5 Khalsa's - Panj Pyare are equal
to the Guru)

The main reason for the world community being unable to unite in any form or manner, or for a religious leader to gain the authority and power to govern and lead the nations to peace, or locally free and gain the Punjab its independence status is this lust and greed for status and power.

There is only one Waheguru, None have seen him, He does not make public appearances for a reason. Those who submit to the pure truth of the word and live pious lives are human, all others bust greed ridden mortals consumed with a need for attention and power, in the absence of gaining any by merit in their own communities. It is these demagogies that must be overcome to find freedom, and it is these demagogues who conspire, weave webs of confusion and deceit and ensure no progress is made.

The five pyare were the Guru’s appointed aids, this does not in any way make them equal to the Guru who is the writer, spirit and personification of the Pure and Absolute Truth. The only methodology for wishing it to be so is power and individual standing overshadowing adherence to doctrine and unity and partisan loyalties making this an issue. Would the Supreme Soul not himself wish for such a warrior able to bind his global creation in peace and unity. The powers in situ cannot unite this forum, the state, let alone a nation or world community.

It’s all about power, acclaim, name and the gaining of it. There is no love for God or community involved at all.


:a36: Do elaborate as to your view that the WaheGuru JI is discredited or devalued to a small ''g'' whatever that means ...

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Need of a Guru

The need of a Guru commences as soon as a person is born. This fact is accepted by scientists that if a new born child is placed and brought up at a place where he can hear no sound, the child will grow to be a dumb. Thus the early Guru of a child is his parents, brothers, sisters and other relatives from whom the child hears something and then learns to speak. This is the primary knowledge. But it is communicated through' word'.
Thereafter, a man receives worldly knowledge in School, College and University through teachers and professors, that enables him become a good citizen and prepares him to lead a better life economically.
As a good worldly life is essential, so also is essential the acquisition of a sound and good spiritual life. This is obtained through spiritual knowledge, that has been blessed to the mankind by Guru Arjan Dev ji who compiled the sacred utterances of all the Gurus, Bhagats of Nirgun school of thoughts and a few devoted Sikhs professing the idealogy of Guru Nanak; in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
The utterances of the Gurus and Bhagats, popularly known by the name of Bani or Gurbani dictates to a Sikh, a way of life to live. Living life in accordance with Gurbani makes one like the Timeless Lord. It needs to be clarified here ­very emphatically that 'Gurbani' is to be lived every day, or at least one should endeavour to live it every day, and is Not for repeated inchantations.
The need of a Guru has been expressed in Gurbani repeatedly. In the 'Mul Mantar' (Credal Statement) placed
before his magnum opus 'Jap(u) ji', Guru Nanak Dev ji has disclosed the method or way to God realisation by the word 'Gurprnsad,ie(By the grace of the Guru). This very theme has been further elaborated by Guru ji in the sixth step (Pauri) of Asa ki Var-
Bin(u) sat(i) gur kinai n paeo, bin(u) sat(i) gur kinai n paea.
Sat(i)gur uich(i) ap(u) rakhion(u) kar(i) pargat(u) akh(i) sunaid.

(page 466)

Guru Angad Dev ji establishes the need of a Guru through the following lines of Asa ki Var -
Je sau chanda ugveh(i) suraj chadheh(i) hazar. Etey chanan ho(n)dian, gur bin(u) ghor andhar. (Page 463)
Without Guru, the darkness of inner consciousness cannot be dispelled. Guru is the only personality who is without sin, is ideal and complete in all respects. It is stated in Gurbani -
Bhulan andar(i) sabh(i) ko abhul(u) guru. kartdr(u). (page 61)

Guru Arjun Dev ji too establishes the greatness and importance of a Guru and emphasizes that one can't swim across the worldly ocean of mamon (Maya) without his guidance -
Mat ko bharm(i) bhulai sansar(i)
Gur bin(u) koe n utras(i) par. 1. Rahao
Kahu Nanak prabh(i) ehai jandi.
Bin (u) gur mukat (i) na paiai bhdi. (Page 864)

Doubts, suspicions and distrust has been accepted the basic cause of all distresses, afflictions and uncertainties. According to Gurmat one can't reach the state of realisation without active guidance of the Guru. Without His Naam one can't get rid of duality and doubts of the mind. Guru Nanak Sahib says-
Sin(u) sat(i) gur nfim(u) n paiai bhai,
bin(u) namai bharm(u) n jai. (Page 635)
Human mind is very fickle and perverse. It is in the
captivity of the five ill traits, i.e. kam, (lust) krodh (anger), lobh (greed), moh (attachment) ahankaar (pride). Without control over these, one can't get peace and happiness. But those can only be controlled by seeking sanctuary at the feet of Guru _
Jab gur(u) milia tab man(u) vas(i) aia,
Dhavat panch rahey, her(i) dhiaia, (Page 165)

 

[prabhsmart]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Some of u guys seems so much obsessed with living guru's taht u can't see the right thing at all. u r questioning the existence of God, u r such a fool.
a person who really meets a Guru will never go and declare that he had a vision, or how great he is or how much lucky he is?
When i was bad ill both physically and spirtually, i was guided by one person who had a vision of Guru Nanak devji and Sai baba. he told me the way to ccome out of all my problems. his solutions worked, on one hand doctors told us that i needed to be operated, on the other hand the medicine he brought for me cured me in 5 days. he made me spritually strong or by not i wouldn't have been sikh.
But he never told any thing about this to any one, nor that he had a vision of Guru. he lives a simply life, sewa, kirtan and honest earning is his life.

here, i will not start worshipping him because he got me out of suffering, he came to me due to my ardas to guruji to get me out of problems. The God send me a help, not another another God. :hmm:

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

The Panj Piayara Concept was revealed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at Keshgarh Sahib in 1699...when out of vast assembly of perhaps 80,000 He ASKED for and Received FIVE HEADS. The Important point to note is the GURU stopped at FIVE and didnt ask for any more heads. So there should be no queries as to why "ONLY" 5 came forward out of 80,000 and so forth - the simple answer is the Guru asked only the First Five. Period.
The Five came from Diverse backgrounds, Jaats (castes) , Regions , etc. Interesting fact is that these places had all been visited by the preceeding Gurus - Guru nanak ji Sahib almost 200 years before.
The GURU and the FIVE prepared the Khandey batte Dee PAHUL - and the FIVE were administered the PAHUL one by one by the GURU..and then the GURU KNELT before the FIVE and He was administered the same by the Five. Then the GURU added the SINGH to His name as well as the FIve.

2. The "Power of the Five" was tested at Chamkaur when the Five "ordered" the GURU to leave the place. The Guru obeyed.
3. The power of the KHALSA GURU was also "tested" when the GURU paid obesceanse by dipping his arrow at a Muslim Pir's GRAVE...the GURU was SANCTIONED for thsi "Offense". The Guru replied that it was aTEST of His Khalsa whether they were brave enough to stand up for a PRINCIPLE no matter who was at fault. The Khalsa passed with flying colours.

4. THIS is what the poet of Vaar 41 means when he wrote...
Waho Waho Gobind Singh..AAPEH GUR - CHELA. Guru and CHELA..Guru and Disciple in ONE !!

GURU NANAK JI started the DHARAMSALA - SANGAT sytsem....planting the Sikh Tree...
GURU AMARDASS JI began the MANJIS and PEERHIS SYSTEM to further propogate Sikhi...the Branches of Sikhi...
By the time of GURU RAMDASS JI this manji-peerhi system had morphed into the MASAND SYSTEM to further JATHEBAND the Sikhs growing numbers. These Masands did a fantastic job of becoming the various DECENTRALISED CENTRES of Sikhi...collecting reveneu for the Centralised GURU...and doing Sikhi Parchaar as widespread places as the Human GURU could never be at so many palces at the same time..
The Masands System grew and propsered SIKHI..but as time went on and the Masands went into the next GENERATION..corruption and other failings set in...by the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji the Masnad system ahd outlived its usefullness and was in fact a growing cancer that would harm the SIKHI..thus it was ABOLISHED. Guru Gobind Singh JI set to REMOVE any MIDDLEMEN that had any ambitions of becoming in between the GURU and His SIKH...THIS is WHY tere is NO PRIESTLY CLASS in SIKHISM..EACH and EVERY SIKH is expected and encouraged to be his own "PRIEST".

Compare the Original Khandey batte Dee Pahul Ceremony in 1699 there is THE GURU (Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Five Pyaras)...with the ones held TODAY....the GURU Present is SGGS..and the Panj Piyaras. To be noted is that the FIVE ALONE CANNOT hold a Pahul Ceremony - IF the SGGS is Not present. THUS BOTH the GURU GRANTH and the GURU PANTH have to co-run. The Five Pyaras are DUTY BOUND to come to any decisions as per the GURBANI of the SGGS - whereever and whenever they DONT..they are wrong and follwoing what the MASANDS/Manjis/Peerhis did in GURU Period. This is a COUNTERBALANCE put in place by the Wise GURU JI Sahib. The SGGS is the "CONSTITUTION" and the EXECUTIVE is the PANJ PIYARAS..while the ADMINISTRATIVE is the KHALSA....alwasy the SGGS is SUPREME.

The "transfer" of the "DEH" part to the SGGS seems to have taken place at the instance of the British or the enemies of the Guru Khalsa panth. THIS has led to the completley ludicrous and untenable position many sikhs take on the SGGS...that it is a "living breathing "body" that needs air condiotioners in summer..warm clothes in winter...needs food to be placed under its peerehs ....etc etc...ABOUT the ONLY ACT these people CANNOT DO is BATHE THE SGGS..otehrwise whatever happens in a Hindu mandir would certainly happen in a GURDWARA where such Sikhs hold power. The Hindus Routinely BATHE their IDOLS and Shiv Lingas in MILK/lassee/yoghurt/honey/water etc etc in COPIOUS AMOUNTS......something the SIKHS understandably cannot do due to the SGGS being made of PAPER and INK.. DID these SIKHS DESPAIR...NO they didnt...a SOLUTION to this dilemma was FOUND......so they do the next best thing..SIKHS began to Bathe their GURDWARAS and NISHAN SAHIBS in MILK.....this is routinely done at Harmandir Sahib Amritsar. This is akin to the AARTEE they have managed to copy...the Hindu Mandirs perform aartee..so do these SIKHS..they do aartee to the SGGS reading aloud the SHABADS that CONDEMN what they are DOING !!!..but who cares...( actually who understands what is being read ??) This transfer of the DEH part to the SGGS is partial to those who dearly wish the SIKHS would just leave the READING/VICHAAR of GURNBANI aside and just matha tek and let the "PRIESTS" do all that readsings/paaths/ardasses etc....as is happening more and more today...

In too many places has the GURU clearly said that IF anyone wants to have MY DARSHAN....go seek FIVE KHALSAS....or JUST LOOK IN THE MIRROR..IF there is a KHALSA standing in front of the MIRROR..there is GURU GOBIND SINGH JI in the REFLECTION. THIS was the last words of Guru Ji before He passed on at nanded in 1708..and Bhai Prahlaad Singh was one of his closest companions..while GYANI GIAN SINGH came decades LATER and has made many many MISTAKES in hsi books.

Looking at the situation in PUNJAB TODAY...the Scared Institution of the PANJ PIYARAS has been clealry SABOTAGED in favour of the RULING CLASSES. The same thing that happend to the MASAND SYSTEM has overtaken the PANJ SYSTEM. The PANJ do not seek the TOUCHSTONE OF GURBANI in SGGS..they are at the beck and call of the RULERS.

 

[prabhsmart]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Looking at the situation in PUNJAB TODAY...the Scared Institution of the PANJ PIYARAS has been clealry SABOTAGED in favour of the RULING CLASSES. The same thing that happend to the MASAND SYSTEM has overtaken the PANJ SYSTEM. The PANJ do not seek the TOUCHSTONE OF GURBANI in SGGS..they are at the beck and call of the RULERS.[/quote]


Well said gyaniji.:welcome:

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Need of a Guru

The need of a Guru commences as soon as a person is born. This fact is accepted by scientists that if a new born child is placed and brought up at a place where he can hear no sound, the child will grow to be a dumb. Thus the early Guru of a child is his parents, brothers, sisters and other relatives from whom the child hears something and then learns to speak. This is the primary knowledge. But it is communicated through' word'.
Thereafter, a man receives worldly knowledge in School, College and University through teachers and professors, that enables him become a good citizen and prepares him to lead a better life economically.
As a good worldly life is essential, so also is essential the acquisition of a sound and good spiritual life. This is obtained through spiritual knowledge, that has been blessed to the mankind by Guru Arjan Dev ji who compiled the sacred utterances of all the Gurus, Bhagats of Nirgun school of thoughts and a few devoted Sikhs professing the idealogy of Guru Nanak; in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
The utterances of the Gurus and Bhagats, popularly known by the name of Bani or Gurbani dictates to a Sikh, a way of life to live. Living life in accordance with Gurbani makes one like the Timeless Lord. It needs to be clarified here *very emphatically that 'Gurbani' is to be lived every day, or at least one should endeavour to live it every day, and is Not for repeated inchantations.
The need of a Guru has been expressed in Gurbani repeatedly. In the 'Mul Mantar' (Credal Statement) placed
before his magnum opus 'Jap(u) ji', Guru Nanak Dev ji has disclosed the method or way to God realisation by the word 'Gurprnsad,ie(By the grace of the Guru). This very theme has been further elaborated by Guru ji in the sixth step (Pauri) of Asa ki Var-
Bin(u) sat(i) gur kinai n paeo, bin(u) sat(i) gur kinai n paea.
Sat(i)gur uich(i) ap(u) rakhion(u) kar(i) pargat(u) akh(i) sunaid.

(page 466)

Guru Angad Dev ji establishes the need of a Guru through the following lines of Asa ki Var -
Je sau chanda ugveh(i) suraj chadheh(i) hazar. Etey chanan ho(n)dian, gur bin(u) ghor andhar. (Page 463)
Without Guru, the darkness of inner consciousness cannot be dispelled. Guru is the only personality who is without sin, is ideal and complete in all respects. It is stated in Gurbani -
Bhulan andar(i) sabh(i) ko abhul(u) guru. kartdr(u). (page 61)
Guru Arjun Dev ji too establishes the greatness and importance of a Guru and emphasizes that one can't swim across the worldly ocean of mamon (Maya) without his guidance -
Mat ko bharm(i) bhulai sansar(i)
Gur bin(u) koe n utras(i) par. 1. Rahao
Kahu Nanak prabh(i) ehai jandi.
Bin (u) gur mukat (i) na paiai bhdi. (Page 864)

Doubts, suspicions and distrust has been accepted the basic cause of all distresses, afflictions and uncertainties. According to Gurmat one can't reach the state of realisation without active guidance of the Guru. Without His Naam one can't get rid of duality and doubts of the mind. Guru Nanak Sahib says-
Sin(u) sat(i) gur nfim(u) n paiai bhai,
bin(u) namai bharm(u) n jai. (Page 635)
Human mind is very fickle and perverse. It is in the
captivity of the five ill traits, i.e. kam, (lust) krodh (anger), lobh (greed), moh (attachment) ahankaar (pride). Without control over these, one can't get peace and happiness. But those can only be controlled by seeking sanctuary at the feet of Guru _
Jab gur(u) milia tab man(u) vas(i) aia,
Dhavat panch rahey, her(i) dhiaia, (Page 165)

Dalbirk ji

Guru Fateh.

I agree with your statement about " The need of a Guru" from the time we are born and many people play that part since our birth. The word SIKH shows that. A student is there because there is a teacher. All those Sikhs who have played their parts as our teachers since our birth depended and still depend on the ultimate Guru, SGGS. The reason we call SGGS as our 'Living Guru' is so that we can relate its teaching to the present time, use them to enhance and make our everyday lives better. If we are not able to do that then by doing Paath we are doing nothing but decorating our mental tombstones with plastic flowers.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Dalbirk ji

Guru Fateh.

I agree with your statement about " The need of a Guru" from the time we are born and many people play that part since our birth.

|| 132 ||

Here and hereafter, You are our Protector. aithai othai tooNhai rakhvaalaa.
In the womb of the mother, You cherish and nurture the baby. maat garabh meh tum hee paalaa.
The fire of Maya does not affect those who are imbued with the Lord`s Love;
they sing His Glorious Praises. ||5|| maa-i-aa agan na pohai tin ka-o rang ratay gun gaavani-aa. ||5||

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Traits & Duties of a Guru

Waheguru, (The Lord Almighty) and 'Guru' holds a very significant place in Sikhism. No personality howsoever great he may be can be equated with Guru The world always produce a spurious of the original. The production of spurious increases in the ratio of the invaluability of the original In comparison to the Satguru, who had ever been labouring to remove the darkness of ignorance from the minds of the people, working for their welfare, blessing them with true counseling and always devoting their might in their service, a number of greedy, selfish,cheaters and imposters as gurus also crop up from time to time. So, for the benefit of a common gullible man, the traits and duties of a true and a fake Guru are given in Gurbani
The first trait of a true Guru is that he himself should be well informed about the concept of Godhead. He should always be in tune with Him and operate in the world as d true replica of Him. In the company of such a Guru, a Sikh would achieve his ultimate aim of life.

Sat(i) purkh(u) jin(i) jania sat(i) gur(u) tis ka nau. Tis kai sang(i) sikh(u) udhari Nanak her(i) gun gau. (Page 286)

The other traits of a Satguru are that he would himself become a person of true character first, both from inside and outside and then he would impress the truth on theSikh His counselling should dispel duality from his mind. The seeker must feel a Sense of cornfort, solace, tranquility and happiness.

Jis(u) miliai man(i) hoe anand(u) so sat(i)gur(u) kahiai.
Man ki dubidha binas(i) jae her(i) parm pad(u) lahiai (Page 168)

A true guru blesses one with spiritual boons. He is Iike a house of snow & a messenger of peace. He gives the light of knowledge to the whole Universe. One gets the boon of a Lord's naamthat gives spiritual life to a seeker. Bearing his name in the mind provides comfort and happiness .
Gur(uj data gur(u) hivai ghar(u), gur(u) deepak(u) tih loe.
Amar paddrath(u) Nanaka,
man(i) maniai such(u) hoe.

(Page 137)

The true guru is without enemosity . For him no one is a
friend and none is his enemy. He treats all alike .
Sat(i)gur(u) nirvair(u) putr satr smaney,
augan katey karey sudh(u) deha (Page 960)

If a Slanderer comes to the refuge of a Guru,he forgives him and provides him attention equally
Koi nindak(u) hovai sat(i) guru ka,
phir(i) sarn(i) gur avai.
Pichhaley gunah sat(i)gur(u) baksh(i) laey, satsangat(i) nal(i) ralvai. (Page 855)

A true Guru never demands any wage or fees from his
Sikh. He does not accept material gain from his Sikhs to increase his own assets. He only gives counsel out of kindness. He feels happy to see that his Sikh is being blessed with essentials of life .


A true Guru does not just attach a Sikh with himself but he ensures his association with the Timeless Lord.He explains him the path that leads to Him. He parts with knowledge for the good of his Sikh without any greed and leads him to the
meditation and refection On Lords name (Naam).
Maha purkha ka bolna hovai kitai parthae.
oe amrit bharey bharpur hehe Ona til(u) n tmae. (Page 755)

It is evident from the foregoing hymns of Gurbani that a Guru holds an important and a prominent place in the life of a Sikh. His status presented is very exalted and high. No one else has been equated with a Guru in Sikh theology nor can such equation be made. This exalted status has bern enjoyed by Guru Nanak Dev ji and his nine successors appointed by him alone.
Before the arrival of Guru Nanak, two thoughts were prevalent regarding a Guru. It was customary for a Hindu to accept and take refuge under a person for his spiritual progress. He would then lead his spiritual and worldly life according to his directions. Thus one family would have many Gurus. These are Gurus for the sake of name only. None of them would have experienced divine bliss. The other belief was that the formless God Himself appears in this world in the form of a human being as an incarnate to establish a religion
Sikhism rejects both these beliefs. Guru Nanak Dev ji never accepted that God takes birth as an incarnate in this world. He believes that the Lord is without the process of birth through any system of production. He never enters into the life cycle of a human being. On the other hand a common man can't take the position and status of a Guru. In the Sikh religion, the word Guru is used for those blessed and holy souls who have totally shed their ego and have merged their thoughts with the divine and supreme spirit. All their actions are guided by the Lord. They are blessed with the divine knowledge and sent to this world by this Almighty. The Guru of Guru Nanak Dev ji was not a man but He, the Timeless Lord Himself.Guru Nanak himself says_
Aprampar parbrahm(u) parmesar(u)
Nanak gur(u) milia soi jio. (Page 599)

 

[dalbirk]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Principle of Shabad (Word) Guru

Many an imposter men proclaiming themselves to be Guru are preaching that salvation is not possible without a living Guru, i.e. without the guidance from a living person. They pick up appropriate Iines from Gurani, containing the word 'Guru' and explain them to the seekers that the line of the hymn is refering to an institute of a living Guru. They are thus confusing the gullible Sikhs and seekers of the truth.But if we try to understand the meanings of Gurbani in its absolute reality, we shall then know that it has not refered to or accepted the body or bodily form as the Guru. The body is made up of perishable materials of the universe which can get destroyed in no time. How can it be Guru? Guru is the word of the Lord, the Supreme that has been communicated and understood by us through the kindness of the Guru Sahibs .The same word has been called as Gurbani. Guru ji says _
Jin shabad(i} guru sun(i) mania,
tin man (i) dhiaia her(i) soe.
Andin(u) bhagti ratia,
man(u) tan (u) nirmal(u) hoe. (Page 27)

In very clear & precise words. Gurbani calls Shabad as Guru and the body as dust.
Kabira dhur(i) sake/(i) kai puria bandhi deh.
Divas char(i) ko pekhana ant(i) kheh ki kheh
(Page1374)

At 'Achal Vatala' when the Sidhs asked Guru Nanak who his Guru was ,he replied_

Pavan arambh(u) sat(i)gur mat(i) vela.
Sabad(u) guru surt(i) dhun(i) chela.
Akanth katha Iai raho niraha.
Nanak jug(i) jug(i) gur Gopala.
Ek(u) sabad(u) jit(u) katha vichari
Gurmukh(i) haumai agn(i) niviri. (Page 942)

The Sidhs had asked the following question which Guru Nanak had replied in the above hymn_

1.What is the source of life?
2. What is the time for seeking sermons?
3. Who is your teacher(Guru)?
4. How do you keep yourself (free of the worldly influence of mamon (Maya) ?
5. Tellus your ideology. How can a person sail across the worldly ocean?
To the above questions. Guru Nanak replied, "The air that we breathe, are the fundamentals of life. This human Iife is the period of obtaining teachings from the true Guru. My Guru is Shabad and my concentration of mind is the disciple. I sing the praises of the indescribable Lord and keep myself aloof of the worldly pleasures and mamon. That Guru the sustainer of the Earth is ever present every-where and at all time. Gods greatness can only be described through Shabad .This Shabad (word) of the Lord can only remove the ego of a man”

Guru Nanak tells us that the word of Guru is capable of keeping the mind in a stable state. Without Guru’s word, the man roams about like an idiot

Sabad(u) gur pira gehar gambhira
bin(u) sabadai jug(u) buuranung (Page 635)

We also find from the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib that the body is false since it is perishable, the Shabad is eternal and thus Guru. The body perishes but Gurbani tells us that guru is ever living. (Sat(I) gur jagta hai deo). Keeping Guru's words in mind understanding them and moulding one's life in acrordance with the counsel of the Guru ultimately reveals His presence in ones heart - (The home of Lord)
Sat(i) gur ka sach(u) sabad(u) kamavauh
Thir(u) ghar(i) baithey prabh(u) apna pavauh (Page 386)

Sat(i)guru Nanak Dev ji converted Bhai Lehna into his own form and ideology through the power of the Shabad. He kindled the light of Guruship in him through the medium of Shabad. All the ten Gurus were same as far as their ideology was concerned. This they had acquired through Shabad. Their physical being however was different.
Very often devotees draw wrong meanings from The word "Guru murt(i) " that appears at places in Gurbani. They try to associate the word Murt(i) with the body. But Bhai Gurdasji has allayed this doubt in the following lines_
Gur murt(i) gur shabad(u) hai,
sadh sangat(i) vich(i) pargati aea. (Var 24/25)

&

Gur murt(i) puran brahm(u) abigat(i) abinsi.
Parbmhm(i) gur sabad(u) hai sat(i) sang(i) nivasi (Var9/1)

Sabad(u) guru gur(u) janiai,
Gurmukh(i) hoe surt(i) dhun(i) chela. (Var 7/20)

Guru Amar Das ji telIs us that God realisation is possible only through 'Shabad'-

Gur shabdi her(i) paiai,
bin(u) shabadai bharm(i) bhulae. (Page 36)

Guru Ram Das ji advises us that utterances of the Guru,
Shabads of Gurbani are the true guru

Sat(i)gur bachan(u), bachan(u) hai niko,
gur bachni amrit(u) pavaigo. (Page 1311)

Many imposters and cheats claim that ‘Shabad’ rests with them. It is not obtained from Gurbani. Those people are on the wrong track in the very fundamentals of the issue. Outside Gurbani there is no other 'Shabad'. Anyone who wishes to stabilize his mind should read Gurbani.It gets you everything.

Gur kai shabad(i) man kao samjhaveh
Sat(i)gur ki bani sat(i) sat(i) kar(i) manauh,
eo atam Ramai lina hey. (Page 1028)

Truly speaking, a Sikh meets his Guru through Shabad only. Guru tells him the true path through Shabad alone. Looking at a physical body, however pious the owner may be, does not provide one with salvation. It is only possible by deliberation on the Shabad of Guru and then living his counsel in actual life. One has to mould one's life as advised by the Guru in his Shabad to reach the stage of emancipation.

Sat(i)gur no sab(u) ko vekhda,
jeyta jagat(u) sansar(u).
Dhithai mukt(i) n hovai,
jichar(u) shabad(i) n karey vichar(u). (Page 594)


Jin shabad(i) guru sun(i) mania,
tin man(i) dhiaia her(i) soe (Page 27)

Guru Ram Das ji also directs -
Bani guru, guru hai bani,
vich(i) bani amrit(u) sarey
Gur(u) bani kahai sevak(u) jan(u) manai,
partakh(i) guru nistarey. (Page 982)

A Sikh can meet his guru only through gur shabad. Guru too imparts his divine knowkledge to his Sikh through Shabad alone. Guru Nanak Devji tells us in 'Sri Raag'-

Jab lag(u) shabad(i) n bhetiai,
Kio sohai gurduar(i). (Page 19)

The Bani recorded in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is Guru
because it is the proclaimed order of the Lord that the true Guru obtained from Him by tuning his mind to that of the Lord. He then wrote his experience and the knowledge aquired, for us mortals to derive benefit from.

Gur mahe ap(u) smoe, shabad vartaea. (Page 1279)

All utterances of the men caught in the shackles of mammon(Maya) can in no way qualify to the grade of Bani . ‘ Gur-Shabad’ or ‘Shabad-Guru’ is that which has descended to a holy soul from the primary source of Almighty. Those imposters who try to exalted position of a Guru by composing baseless utterances and impressing people with their false ideology,the Gurbani has the following to say-

Sat(i)gur kibani sat(i) sarup(u) hai gurbani baniai,
Sat(i)gur ki risai hor(i) kach(u) pich(u) boldey,
se kurhiarh kurhey jharh(i) parhiai
Ohah(u) andar(i) hor(u) mukh(i) hor(u) hai
Bikh(u) maya no jhakh(i) mardey kariai. (Page 304)

Bhai Gurdasji explains the concept of Shabad Guru in his following composition-

Jaisey phal se birkh(u) birkh(u) se hot phal(u),
adbhut(i) gat(i) kachh(u) kehanu) n avai ji.
Jaisey bas(u) bavan mai(n) bawan(u) hai bas(u) bikhai,
bism charitar kou marm(u) n pavai ji.
kast(i) main agn(i) hai, agn(i) main kast(i) hai,
ati ascharj hai kautak kahavai ji.
Sat(i)gur main Shabad, Shabad main sat(i)gur hai,
nirgun gian dhian samjhavai ji. (Kahrt, Sawaiya 534)

Bani is Guru and Guru is not different to Bani. This is a very big and unique principle of Gurmat that attaches us with the spiritual form of our ten true Gurus. It also weans us away from the worship of living beings, associating ourse!ves with ‘Gurudom’ and holding in reverence any family lineage. Bhai Gurdas ji has given beautiful similies and explains this concept in the aoove Kabit.He explains that as the tree grows from the fruit and fruit grows on the tree, it is a strange phenomenon that can't be explained in totality. The fragrance of sandalwood and the sandalwood itself are inter-twined, no one can find the Secret of this amazing phenomenom. The wood has latent fire and there is wood in the fireis also a strange fact. Similarly there is no difference between a true Guru (Satguru) & ‘Shabad’. Shabad lives in Satguru and Satguru in Shabad. But this process can only be understood by concentrating the mind in the knowledge of The Lord.

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

dalbirk ji
I dont agree with you.

There have been many enlightened beings who never had a living guru.
For example krishna, buddha, George gurdgiff, nanak, rajneesh, raman, mahavir etc, and many more. But there have been many many more who had living gurus for example the nine sikh gurus, many disciples of budhha, disciples of raman, disciples of mahavir, who had reached enlightenement with the help of a living guru.
The people who managed without a living guru, were of a very high calibre. And ONLY if a person is of the calibre of buddha, of nanak, of mahavir; ONLY THEN he can attain god without a living guru. Otherwise its very tough.

But a book definitely has never made a man enlightened in the whole history of mankind.

It is evident from the condition of sikhs all over the world, as i never came accross an enlightened sikh who has attained by reading a book.
On the contrary around eighty percent of sikhs cut their hair, and dont know a damn thing about spirituality.

 

[Astroboy]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
कानड़ा महला ५ ॥
Kānṛā mėhlā 5.
Kaanraa, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਰਤ ਕਰਤ ਚਰਚ ਚਰਚ ਚਰਚਰੀ ॥
करत करत चरच चरच चरचरी ॥
Karaṯ karaṯ cẖaracẖ cẖaracẖ cẖarcẖarī.
The debaters debate and argue their arguments.

ਜੋਗ ਧਿਆਨ ਭੇਖ ਗਿਆਨ ਫਿਰਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਧਰਤ ਧਰਤ ਧਰਚਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जोग धिआन भेख गिआन फिरत फिरत धरत धरत धरचरी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jog ḏẖi▫ān bẖekẖ gi▫ān firaṯ firaṯ ḏẖaraṯ ḏẖaraṯ ḏẖarcẖarī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The Yogis and meditators, religious and spiritual teachers roam and ramble, wandering endlessly all over the earth. ||1||Pause||

ਅਹੰ ਅਹੰ ਅਹੈ ਅਵਰ ਮੂੜ ਮੂੜ ਮੂੜ ਬਵਰਈ ॥
अहं अहं अहै अवर मूड़ मूड़ मूड़ बवरई ॥
Ahaʼn ahaʼn ahai avar mūṛ mūṛ mūṛ bavra▫ī.
They are egotistical, self-centered and conceited, foolish, stupid, idiotic and insane.

ਜਤਿ ਜਾਤ ਜਾਤ ਜਾਤ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਕਾਲ ਹਈ ॥੧॥
जति जात जात जात सदा सदा सदा सदा काल हई ॥१॥
Jaṯ jāṯ jāṯ jāṯ saḏā saḏā saḏā saḏā kāl ha▫ī. ||1||
Wherever they go and wander, death is always with them, forever and ever and ever and ever. ||1||

ਮਾਨੁ ਮਾਨੁ ਮਾਨੁ ਤਿਆਗਿ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਨਿਕਟਿ ਸਦਾ ਹਈ ॥
मानु मानु मानु तिआगि मिरतु मिरतु निकटि निकटि सदा हई ॥
Mān mān mān ṯi▫āg miraṯ miraṯ nikat nikat saḏā ha▫ī.
Give up your pride and stubborn self-conceit; death, yes, death, is always close and near at hand.

ਹਰਿ ਹਰੇ ਹਰੇ ਭਾਜੁ ਕਹਤੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਮੂੜ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਜਨ ਭਜਨ ਭਜਨ ਅਹਿਲਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਈ ॥੨॥੫॥੫੦॥੧੨॥੬੨॥
हरि हरे हरे भाजु कहतु नानकु सुनहु रे मूड़ बिनु भजन भजन भजन अहिला जनमु गई ॥२॥५॥५०॥१२॥६२॥
Har hare hare bẖāj kahaṯ Nānak sunhu re mūṛ bin bẖajan bẖajan bẖajan ahilā janam ga▫ī. ||2||5||50||12||62||
Vibrate and meditate on the Lord, Har, Haray, Haray. Says Nanak, listen you fool: without vibrating, and meditating, and dwelling on Him, your life is uselessly wasting away. ||2||5||50||12||62||

 

[21khalsa13]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

life itself is concioussness
everything is life is conciouss to some degree our other

it is the scenerio of the buterfly telling the caterpillar how to become a butterfly
we all know that is the destiny of the caterpillar but there is no way this can be communicated to it.

however, the endevour the growth in the caterpiller- the vital force - the intelligence keeps pushing it along and natures takes its course.

with us it is slightly different because it isn't our physical bodies that are going thorugh the transformation it is our souls - our inner life - our concioussness.

our guru is shabd guru. the intelligent vibration field of energy that our souls process in order to think.
it says so in the last parts of the japji sahib _ pavan guru, .....

in the guru granth shaib these vibration have already been processed in a set order to bring about transformation in our lives. when we speak and vibrate at the resounce of our guru the transformation happens automatically, hence nothing external is needed. undar hukum sahib ko, bahar hukum na koi.

what is needed is open mindedness about learning but single mindedness about god.
be open to learning from anywhere and everyone - children, animals, plants, each other, even these 'babas' have something to say, but don't think these are the guru. the guru may speak through any and all of these - he is inside each of us after all.

when guru nanak said mardana play the rabek 'tur ke baani ahh ree hai' he which conciouss of words 'he' said and words 'god' said - how? did he felt the vibrations in his soul (possible?) did is kundalini energy run up and down his body when GOD spoke? there must be a difference when GOD spoke else how did he know 'tur ke baani hai'


bul chuk maaf

 

[Tejwant Singh]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

sadhu; DalbirkI dont agree with you.

There have been many enlightened beings who never had a living guru.
For example krishna, buddha, George gurdgiff, nanak, rajneesh, raman, mahavir etc, and many more

Sadhu,

Guru Fateh

People who compare Guru Nanak with Rajneesh seem to have some hidden agenda. This must have happened when you let your mind drop as you vehemently preach in your almost every post. Read just the snippet of what Rajneesh did. You can google more about him so you can learn more. Learning breeds honesty.

Tejwant Singh

The Rajneeshee Cult
As the summer of 1984 waned, a cult led by the Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh near the town of The Dalles, Oregon, used a biological agent to sicken hundreds in an apparent dress rehearsal to sway the outcome of a local election. The Bhagwan brought followers with him from India when he immigrated in 1981.

The hardworking Rajneeshees were isolationist, with some 150 armed people to keep outsiders away from their ranch. When the Bhagwan decided to enlarge his ranch and his flock, he took over the small town of Antelope, christening the new town Rajneesheepuram.

Oregon�s attorney general, however, stated that the municipality was unconstitutional because it did not separate church and state. To outmaneuver the attorney general, the cult�s hierarchy hatched a plan to make the Wasco county residents too sick to vote in November, enabling the Rajneeshees to seat their favored candidate on the county court. The cult�s nurse was the scientific brains behind attempts to put this plan into action.

Although the cultists considered other organisms (AIDS and Salmonella typhi, which causes hepatitis and typhoid fever, among other illnesses), the Rajneeshees decided upon Salmonella typhimurium, which results in food poisoning.

The cult bought bactrol disks from a Seattle medical supply company under false pretenses. A trio of cult members worked in a laboratory equipped with an incubator and freeze dryer to brew what they called a "salsa". Several more Rajneeshees were involved in distributing the agent on various occasions.

Starting on 29 August, the Rajneeshees began sprinkling their Salmonella typhimurium in personal drinking glasses, on doorknobs and urinal handles, on produce at the local supermarket, and on salad bars in eleven restaurants.

Soon, a steady stream of patients were reporting to local physicians and hospitals with symptoms ranging from nausea and diarrhea to headache and fever. In total, 751 fell ill. Wasco county commissioners and ordinary citizens were among the victims. Within four days, local health care providers were able to identify the Salmonella typhimurium as the source , but over a year passed before there was confirmation that a single strain caused all of the illnesses and the Centers for Disease Control filed its report. No one died in this test to see if a ballot box could be fixed, but the Bhagwan reportedly observed that one should not worry if a few perished. Law enforcement authorities thought that the Rajneeshees were practicing to poison the water system of The Dalles. Cult members had already put dead rodents and perhaps raw sewage and salmonella salsa into The Dalles� water supply.

Several cult members were involved in the planning and execution of the salmonella attacks, but only two of the Baghwan�s chief lieutenants were prosecuted. This pair received multiple concurrent twenty-year sentences, among other penalties. According to one analyst who studied the Rajneeshees carefully, the cult did not work its way up the ladder of violence to bioterrorism. Rather, the Rajneeshees appear to have abruptly embarked on their salmonella spree as a means to a specific end.

The Rajneeshee Cult


Rise and Fall of the Rajneesh Cult.

In 1984, a bioterrorist attack using salmonella typhimurium bacteria in salad bars in restaurants in Oregon was traced to a cult led by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (known also as Osho).
It was the first known bioterrorist attack of the 20th century in the United States.
Here’s an interesting the story of the rise and fall of the Rajneesh cult:

Rise and Fall of the Rajneesh Cult. - Neatorama

 

[sadhu]

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

waheguruseekr ji
Okay just leave rajneesh out for a moment.
what about krishna? what about buddha? what about mahavir?
Give some informations about their cults too?