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RSS (Badals' Cohorts) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectionable

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Archived_Member16, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
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    RSS (BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectionable:

    HARIMANDIR SAHIB, GOLDEN TEMPLE & THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR

    MY RECENT VISIT TO HARIMANDIR SAHIB AT THE GOLDEN TEMPLE, AMRITSAR TURNED OUT TO BE A UNIQUE AND MEMORABLE EXPERIENCE. THE TEMPLE IS A UNIQUE SHIVALAYA WITH AMRIT-KUND AS THE JALAHARI AND SHABAD BEING POURED CONTINUOUSLY AS THE JALA OVER THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB. IT WAS TRULY AN EXHILERATING EXPERIENCE TO BEHOLD THE PRACTICE PERFECTLY IN HARMONY WITH THE ANCIENT VEDIC WISDOM OF GURU’S PRECEPTS BEING THE DEITY, GUIDING DEVOTEES TO THE ULTIMATE REALITY OF PARAM BRAHMA.

    DURING TWO DAYS THAT I SPENT THERE, I DEDICATED MY DEEP REVERENCE FOUR TIMES AT THE HARIMANDIR SAHIB, ACCEPTED KARAA-PRASAD SEVERAL TIMES, DECLINED & RETURNED THE LANGAR-PRASAD DUE TO PRESENCE OF ONION AND GARLIC ( INSTEAD, I ACCEPTED KHEER WITH DEEP REVERENCE ! ), VISITED SIKH-MUSEUM AND CAME OUT WITH BAD VIBES IN MY MIND…

    WILL ANY ERUDITE SIKH SCHOLAR ANSWER MY FOLLOWING QUESTIONS TO ENLIGHTEN ME FORTHWITH, WITHOUT RESORTING TO RECRIMINATION AND HOSTILE ABUSES –

    ONION & GARLIC ARE CONSIDERED AS TAMASIK / IMPURE FOODS, PROHIBITED IN PRASAD EVERYWHERE. THESE ARE NOT PERMITTED EVEN DURING ‘SHRAADDHA’. WHY IS IT BEING ADDED TO THE LANGAR-PRASAD AT THE GOLDEN TEMPLE ? SOME OF MY FRIENDS TELL ME, EARLIER THESE WERE NOT USED AT THE LANGAR AT ALL, IF THEY ARE CORRECT. THEN WHY IS IT NOT BEING DONE AWAY WITH IMMEDIATELY ?

    GURU IS ALWAYS A MEANS TO THE ULTIMATE TRUTH. THAT IS WHAT GURU’S WISDOM i.e. SHABAD, GURU-MANTRA, GITA-JNANA etc. IS ALL ABOUT. WHATEVER SHABAD I HEARD OVER THERE WITH RAPT ATTENTION, IS ALL ABOUT RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA. THEN WHY SIKHS CALL THEMSELVES A SEPARATE RELIGION ? AND SEPARATE RACE TOO ! WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY 'SEPARATE RACE' ?? WHY DO THEY CALL THEMSELVES MONOTHEISTIC ? IN WHAT WAY ARE THEY MONOTHEISTIC ? THEN WHY DO THEY SCOFF AT WORSHIPPING RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA IN TEMPLES ? IF YOU ARE INCESSANTLY RECITING GLORIES OF RAM, GOVINDA AND SHIVA IN GURUMUKHI IN GURUDWARAS, THEN WHY ARE YOU AVERSE TO VISITING HINDU TEMPLES IN LARGE NUMBERS ON REGULAR BASIS ? RAM, GOVINDA WERE NOT ORDINARY HUMAN BEINGS. THEY WERE REAL LIFE INCARNATES OF THE SAME 'ISHVARA' WHO IS WORSHIPPED THROUGH THE 'SHABADS'. SWAMI RAMAKRISHNA PARAMHAMSA IS YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE. WHEN YOUR ROOTS ARE SO DEEPLY ENTRENCHED AMONG HINDUS, THEN WHY SO MUCH HOSTILITY TOWARDS HINDUS ?? HOW IS THAT SIKHS DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE 'RAMJANMABHUMI MOVEMENT' ? THEN FOR LIBERATION OF 'KRISHNAJANMABHUMI' AS WELL AS KASHI VISHVANATHJI ? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE, YOU CAN SURVIVE AND FLOURISH WITHOUT HINDUS ?? DO YOU SIKHS BELIEVE THAT SIKHISM CAN SURVIVE IN ABSENCE OF HINDUISM ?? I DO UNDERSTAND SIKH HOSTILITY TOWARDS CONGRESS BUT CONGRESS DO NOT REPRESENT HINDUS. THEY REPRESENT EVERYBODY / ANYBODY EXCEPT HINDUS.

    THEN I DID A LONG AND CONTEMPLATIVE SOJOURN THROUGH THE SO-CALLED SIKH MUSEUM. DON’T YOU FIND IT EMBARRASSING TO NAME IT ‘SIKH MUSEUM’, MEANING THEREBY, ‘SIKHS IN MUSEUM’ ?? WHY SHOULD IT NOT BE CALLED ‘MARTYR’S GALLERY’ INSTEAD ?

    SACRIFICES WROUGHT BY THEM ARE SPLENDID, INCOMPARABLE AND WE ALL ARE DEEPLY INDEBTED TO THOSE GREAT SOULS.TODAY WE ALL ARE ENJOYING OUR FREEDOM OWING TO THE GREAT SACRIFICES DONE BY SO MANY OF US IN THE PAST.

    HOW COULD YOU DECLARE JARNAIL SINGH BHINDERWALA, BALWANT SINGH, SATWANT SINGH AND KEHAR SINGH AS MARTYRS ? BHINDERWALA DID ALL SORTS OF NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES WHICH DEFILED THE HOLY PRECINCTS OF THE TEMPLE. THEN WHY DEIFY HIM AS A MARTYR ? HOW COULD SATWANT SINGH, BALWANT SINGH AND KEHAR SINGH BE CLASSIFIED AS MARTYRS WHO KILLED THEIR OWN PROTECTEE, AS HER BODYGAURDS ?? THAT TOO, AN UNARMED WOMAN ?? THAT TOO, A WIDOW ?? WHAT SORT OF MARTYROLOGY IS IT ? YOU DECLARED IT ‘REVENGE’ WITH A VENGEANCE IN THAT FOOTAGE. WHAT SORT OF REVENGE IS IT ?? IS REVENGE OUR DHARMA ?? IS IT THE WAY TO TAKE REVENGE ??

    DESCRIPTION AS A FOOTAGE OF BHINDERWALA’S POTRAIT USES THE WORDS ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ !!! DOES NOT ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ BELONG TO THE ENTIRE SIKH COMMUNITY ? THIS IS THE SAME ‘BHARATIYA FAUJ’ THAT DID ‘KAR SEWA’ IN LARGE NUMBERS AFTER FACING BULLETS OF BHINDERWALA AND MAJ. GEN. SHUBEGH SINGH BAREFOOT, WITH MINIMUM RESISTANCE. THEN THEY DONATED HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY OUT OF THEIR SALARIES TO THE ‘AKAL TAKHT’. THERE ARE SO MANY MARBLE PLAQUES FIXED ALL OVER, DECLARING THEIR STERLING CONTRIBUTIONS IN REBUILDING THE TAKHT. THEN WHY THIS SENSE OF AVERSION, THEIR REVERENCE / DEDICATION BEING SNEERED AT THROUGH THE PHRASE ‘ BHARATIYA FAUJ’ ???

    THEN TO MAINTAIN DISTANCE FROM HINDUISM, IT IS SAID THAT THERE HAVE BEEN ADDITIONS TO THE ‘SGGS’ BY SOME ‘FAQUIRS’. LET ME TELL YOU WITH MAXIMUM CONVICTION AT MY COMMAND, NO MUSLIM ‘FAQUIR’ HAD BEEN A TRUE ‘FAQUIR’. THEY WERE ALL MUSLIMS, OUT TO DESTROY THE SO-CALLED ‘KAFIRS’ AND CONVERT THEM TO ISLAM. HOW IS THAT THOSE ADDITIONS HAVE NOT BEEN DELETED FROM THE ‘SGGS’ THOUGH I AM NO AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT ?? THAT TOO, AFTER SO MUCH OF TORTURE AND OPPRESSION BY THOSE MUGHAL BIGOTS AND DESPOTS UPON THOSE BRAVE HINDUS / SIKHS ??

    THESE WERE THE QUESTIONS THAT RANKLED MY MIND WHILE DEPARTING FROM THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR. AFTER HARIDWAR, UJJAIN, OMKARESHVARA, VARANASI AND TIRUPATI, IT WAS THE TURN OF THE HOLY CITY OF AMRITSAR TO IMPRESS ME AND WIN MY HEART & MIND.
    WILL MY KHALSA BROTHERS EXPLAIN TO ME ON ALL THESE POINTS, ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS AND SETTING ALL THOSE DOUBTS AT REST ???

    WITH MALICE, OFFENCE OR RANCOUR WHATSOEVER TOWARDS NONE, MAY I APPEAL TO THE SGPC / AKAL TAKHT TO BAN USE OF ONION & GARLIC AT THE LANGAR AND WITHDRAW POTRAITS OF BHINDERWALA, BALWANT SINGH, KEHAR SINGH AND SATWANT SINGH FROM THE MUSEUM ??

    VANDE MAATARAM I
    RAMAKANT TIWARI
     
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  3. ballym

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Keep yourself busy with worshipping Bhindranwale, denouncing deras, Nirankaris, Beas. Either evolve your religion to present or be strict like muslims and be ready to kill your own brother if he falters. "Death by Stoning" lessons can be taken in Balochistan. Boarding Lodging freee with monthly stipend.
    You have the option before it is too late.
    this is the era of knowledge. Inaction is slow death.
    Look at conflicts today. Either you modernise or remain total strict. Take your side.
     
  4. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Are there any news articles, statements from the Sikh honchos to show the lies, ignorance, arrogance, self righteousness and nothing but me-ism of this person who knows nothing about Sikhi, Gurbani but had the nerve to go to Darbaar Sahib with the Molotov cocktail in his hands which he threw at all aspects of Sikhi before leaving the Sanctum sanctorum?

    Why are the people in power sleeping at the helm while still holding the chaur, to whisk off what?

    This piece of hate should be rebutted point by point in the national media. This hater is doing nothing but fermenting the feelings of many ignorant people who are always seeking for some idol, either carved in stone or carved from the dead flesh of the living, like Mr.Tiwari himself.

    There is a tinge of jealousy, envy and disdain with the warning that their sheer numbers can mob us down.

    This is nothing but a Talibanic mentality of a saffronista (thanks Narayanjot Kaur ji), who knows no love. One wonders which stone idol is his god!

    Let me take my daily intake of onions and garlic before I get any more indigestion and start puking.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  5. spnadmin

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Tejwant ji

    Thank you for clarifying some parts of the author's reflections that I was baffled by. After reading your reply I reread his rant once again.

    The author spent several paragraphs in recrimination only to end with the plea that garlic and onions should be banned from the langar of Harimandir Sahib. According to the aryuvedic system garlic and onions are poisons that lead to ignorance and lust. I cannot judge anything from the article about its author's state of lust. However, the level of ignorance exhibited by his comments only tells me that he might as well just go ahead and eat garlic and onions since avoiding them so far has done him no good.

    The fact that he said this only proves how deeply runs the wisdom of our Gurus.

    ਓਇ ਅਗੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਬਹਿ ਮੁਹੁ ਛਪਾਇਨਿ ਨ ਰਲਨੀ ਖੋਟੇਆਰੇ ॥
    ]oue agai pishhai behi muhu shhapaaein n ralanee khottaeaarae ||
    ]Sitting here and there, they hide their faces; being counterfeit, they cannot mix with the genuine.


    ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਭਖੁ ਸੁ ਓਥੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾਇ ਕੂੜੁ ਲਹਨਿ ਭੇਡਾਰੇ ॥
    ounaa dhaa bhakh s outhhai naahee jaae koorr lehan bhaeddaarae ||
    There is no food for them there; the false go into the filth like sheep.

    ਜੇ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਨਰੁ ਖਾਵਾਈਐ ਲੋਚੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਕਢੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਉਗਲਾਰੇ ॥
    jae saakath nar khaavaaeeai locheeai bikh kadtai mukh ougalaarae ||
    If you try to feed the faithless cynic, he will spit out poison from his mouth.



    ਹਰਿ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੇਤੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਓਇ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
    har saakath saethee sang n kareeahu oue maarae sirajanehaarae ||
    O Lord, let me not be in the company of the faithless cynic, who is cursed by the Creator Lord.


    But things being what they have been, who would be surprised if we don't read next that onions and garlic have been banned, along with the Nanakashai Calendar? Just my thoughts.
     
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  6. Tejwant Singh

    Tejwant Singh United States
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Narayanjot ji ,

    Guru Fateh.

    India is a place of Idol worshiping, whether they are made of stone, from Bollywood, tyrants like Indira Gandhi whose movie will be made soon with multimillion dollar budget depicting her as Goddess or people like Mr. Tiwari who have the gall to write an article challenging Sikhi.

    This is all because the Sikhs who hold the power are weak, otherwise how he can have the cajones to say what he did shamelessly.

    When one is ingrained in Idol worshiping then it is taken that one has got the blinders on.

    Indian culture is famous for the life based on," it is said- by someone". This is the reason the Derawalas, Sants and other snake oil salesmen make a killing by handing parroting potions to these kind of people. Unfortunately many Sikhs are part of the same rather than following the teachings of SGGS, our only Guru by studying, understanding and practicing Gurbani, hence making it the journey of the individual which Sikhi is all about.

    Mostly Brahmins and the high caste Hindus do not eat onions or garlic because their dogmas simply do not give them the tools to control the five thieves unlike Sikhi and they blame these roots which are good for us, rather than any kind of physical or mental health hazard as they claim them to be.

    In the other article you have posted, the headlines state," RSS article has Sikh bodies fuming".

    There is nothing for the Sikh "dead" bodies to fume about but to rebutt what Tiwari has said and challenge him that how dare he questions the practices in Sikhi and Gurbani without understanding them.

    They should let Sikhs in medical field show medicinal benefits of eating onions and garlic and state that whoever refuses to eat them based on any dogma is just ignorant and slave to parochial thinking of some past beliefs which make no sense today.

    People like Tiwari are a dangerous lot. First he wrote the whole article in CAPS on the site which is unethical and SCREAMING in the ethos of the internet. Secondly he distorted Harmander Sahib to Hidutva term of Harimandir on purpose.

    He sees millions of dollars of donations coming to the Gurdwara of which he wants a piece of by dividing the Sangat, especially many Hindus who visit Darbaar Sahib and donate.

    In other words, he is trying to stir the cauldron of ignorance which is the basis of the beliefs of many many Indians including some who call themselves Sikhs and have the power in their hands.

    This is the reason the Badal Kumars are mum.

    Tejwant Singh
     
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  7. jasbirkaleka

    jasbirkaleka India
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Sat Sri Akal.
    The truth is that to survive in a majority dominated religion,the minority has to have a very distinct identity,which we, as Sikhs have miserably failed to attain.Just keeping long Kesh will not do. Celebrating Hindu festivals like Diwali on one pretext or another, preachers like Maskeen telling stories from Ramayan and Mahabharat,avoiding eating beef etc. and laying too much emphasis on rituals that go against the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev,like taking ritual baths or washing Hazoor Sahib Gurdwara with milk and Godawari water have greatly compromised Sikh religion.Don"t expect anything from the power- hungry Badal whom we should feel ashamed to call a Sikh.It is we, the Sikh Sangat who have to make some drastic changes, otherwise our religion will have the same fate as happened to Jainism and Budhism.:}--}:
     
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  8. Mai Harinder Kaur

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    For what it's worth, I believe this ridiculous article has been removed.
     
  9. AusDesi

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    So let me understand this. The view of one guy named Ramakant Tiwari has everyone worked up because he's writing his opinion?

    Wow I expected much better from all of you. I mean come on if the guy thinks that saying Ram, Gobind etc in Gurbani means that Sikhs are hindus then you certainly can judge his level of intellect and how much research he has done.
     
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  10. harmanpreet singh

    harmanpreet singh India
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    with malice, offence or rancour whatsoever towards none, may i appeal to the sgpc / akal takht to ban use of onion & garlic at the langar and withdraw potraits of bhinderwala, balwant singh, kehar singh and satwant singh from the museum ??

    Vande maataram i

    ramakant tiwari

    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
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  11. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    Well it looks as if both links have been removed as well as my note that they were still operating at 0245 am -5 GMT. So apparently the article was edited.
     
  12. Randip Singh

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    He he ban Onion and Garlic. Our Guru's had all this to contend with.

    When Guru Angad Devji banned meat from langar after the protestations of a Vashnavite, I wonder how many more there were protesting at other things.

    Jains at living plants.

    Others at Tea (Caffeine)

    Others at ground based plants like Potato (may not have been around) and Carrot.

    If Guruji had listened to all of them we would just have water for langar........wait someone would have objected to how the water was drawn from the well....in a leather bucket :tongue:
     
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  13. Mai Harinder Kaur

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  14. spnadmin

    spnadmin United States
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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    No - Not your fault. The article contained 2 source links. One link on the article did not work. I fixed it. The other link did work. Then both links disappeared. At my age these kinds of cyber-surprises make me question my mental competence.

    It is very likely that you clicked on the broken link before I fixed it. This is one of those virtual mysteries in the cyber sphere. No problems.
     
  15. ballym

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    Re: RSS (Badals' Cohorts) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectionabl

    Minorities have to either remain silent or face expulsion like we are facing.Like Buddhists did. Sikhs are sticking there because of their nature.
    Everyone in Punjab wants to go to Aus/Can/Britain and USA despite being much more prosperous than Hindi and South states. Why ?
    Because deep down there is a feeling of discrimination.
    Why do not we hear more about sikh industrialists prospering at any remarkable rate. Why are there so many hindu industrialists who are gaining prominence , most probably becuase they received support.
    I may be wrong but that is how I feel. Do you think a system where CBI/ Courts favor clear culprits like Sajjan, Tytler would support a sikh industrialist.
    He would say, why should I help him? this sikh would make more money and promote a new gurudwara... no No, no way.
    Or an MP like sajjan would guide public servant.... Do not give permission for this project .... give it to some hindu. Why Punjab is continuously getting poorer despite having industrious people working so hard.
    Sorry for writing staright, bordering on malice. It is not malice. It is truth.
    Where are big projects for Punjab...
    I think the problem started from there only... in 1973.
    And it is the start of problem which matters. Who caused the problem.... lack of projects for a prosperous state with people needing jobs. It was not addressed and we had future resultant troubles.
    What needs to be done?Make sure the system works for you. Getting a separate state was good move but even now real power is in the hands of bureaucracy.Need to capture those govt. posts where people from outside or Banias of Sangrur Bhatinda Belt are sitting. Prepare the students for that aim.
     
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  16. kee_jaana_mein_kaun

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona

    You say "Dharmashtere Australiashtre" in public in Australia phair vekheen tera bann daa kee aa .

    It is very easy to type certain words in a Non Australian forum.

    You people living in foreign lands wish to keep your hindutva agenda alive there also but when we people living in Punjab call our own land Khalistan you start fuming.

    By the way here is info for everyone :

    The Supreme of court of India has said that Sikhs or any one else can not be prevented from raising Khalistan Zindabad slogans and there is nothing anti Indian in this.
     
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  17. AusDesi

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    Re: RSS ( BADALS' COHORTS) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectiona


    1) I am free to write whatever I want.

    2) Australia has freedom of speech. So I can say Dharmastre Australiashetre or Islami Australiastan or BodhAustralia or anything else in Public. People might laugh a bit but that will be as far as it goes.

    3) I do not believe in the Hindutva ideology or RSS ideology. I believe India has a multicultural tradition and it is not only a country for Hindus. I do not believe in Uniform Civil Code. I believe Hindi should not be the Indian national language though I consider it to be my mother tongue. I don't believe building a temple in Ayodhya will solve any problems. I believe the mistake that Babur made should not have been made again as it further divides the future generations. Its easier to divide people and harder to unite.

    I believe Awadh as an area was actually one where communal harmony existed much more than other areas. Even today many hindus in Lucknow and other parts of Awadh take part in Muharram celebration of Shias.

    4) If you want to chant Khalistan Zindabad I don't really have a problem. Its your brain, its your mouth, say whatever you want. Same goes for "Sikh Pride" or whatever the alternative is in Punjabi.

    5) I don't know if you noticed but in the comment that you quoted, I actually supported Sikhs over RSS. I have said many times here that Sikhism is a separate religion and using the names of Hindu gods doesn't change that.

    6) Although you are trying very hard to bait me, I actually am not offended by your views. Every community has people with different views and you have one opinion.

    7) You should let go of this "foreign people" thing. I have lived in India enough to be considered an Indian and think like one.

    8) Its my belief that you're the other side of the coin to RSS/VHP followers. By you I mean you as a person. The kind of person who treats others based on their name, their religion and their ethnicity. The kind of person who mistrusts everyone who does not share his views. The kind of person who walks with a Us V Them mentality in his head. Seeing your anger from your posts, I believe you're quite young and you will outgrow it.

    However, you could just be a keyboard warrior and main phaltu vich apna mattha mar rehan.

    I hope this will explain to everyone where I stand on things.
     
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  18. Admin Singh

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    Re: RSS (Badals' Cohorts) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectionabl

    Admin Note: Please debate the issues not the person. Nobody is above the forum rules/guidelines. This is my last friendly reminder. Thank you for understanding.
     
  19. bscheema

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    Re: RSS (Badals' Cohorts) article on Sikh identity highly derogatory and objectionabl

    :rofl::rolleyes: hey only name of god ll remain so try to stik wid it ...y to disscuss thing which are distructable in law of nature
     

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