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Responding to the Objections Raised by Sahil Ji

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by simpy, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. simpy

    simpy
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    (simpy previously Surinder Kaur Cheema)
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    Respected Saadh Sangat Ji,

    Please forgive me for causing any inconvenience.



    Responding to the Objections Raised by Respected Sahil Makkar Ji

    His Claims, Objections and my Observations and Response:

    1.(SAHIL MAKKAR SAYS)You have to see God before you can do real Naam Simran.
    My response: GURBANI IS NIRANKAAR. What else he is trying to prove us? We have our Guru-“THE LIVING JOTE” what else we need to see?

    Guru and Nirankaar is always with everybody, NOW IF SOMEONE CANNOT SEE, NOBODY ELSE CAN GIVE THEIR OWN GLASSES TO THE OTHER PERSON TO SEE IT. WE CAN ONLY SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE.

    And as Gurbani says, to see the truth we need to come under Guru/God’s Hukam.

    ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]
    hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]

    swcw swihbu swcu nwie BwiKAw Bwau Apwru ]
    AwKih mMgih dyih dyih dwiq kry dwqwru ]
    Pyir ik AgY rKIAY ijqu idsY drbwru ]
    muhO ik bolxu bolIAY ijqu suix Dry ipAwru ]
    AMimRq vylw scu nwau vifAweI vIcwru ]
    krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ]
    nwnk eyvY jwxIAY sBu Awpy sicAwru ]

    i can go on and on…….
    Gurbani tells everything in very clear words, NOW IF SOMEONE DOES NOT WANT TO READ AND SEE THAT ME NEECH CANNOT DO ANYTHING, INFACT NOBODY ELSE CAN DO ANYTHING……

    2.He claims to be a BrahmGyani. (ALL HIS POSTS ARE CRYING OUT LOUD-I KNOW EVERYTHING, YOU ALL DON’T)
    My Response: i am not seeing any quality of a Brahgyani in him(again solely my observation).
    Guru Sahib Says:

    bRhm igAwnI kY DIrju eyk ]
    i do not see dheeraj even anywhere near him. Look at how restless he is to get an answer, where all my posts are clearly stating everything. Well Saadh Sangat Ji, is this a LAKSHAN OF A BRAHMGYANI AS HE IS CLAIMIMG TO BE?????

    bRhm igAwnI kY nwhI AiBmwn ]

    bRhm igAwnI bMDn qy mukqw ]
    And he wants others to respond so that he can continue…

    Isn’t

    bRhm igAwnI eyk aUpir Aws ]
    bRhm igAwnI kw nhI ibnws ]
    bRhm igAwnI kY grIbI smwhw ]
    bRhm igAwnI praupkwr aumwhw ]
    bRhm igAwnI kY nwhI DMDw ]
    bRhm igAwnI ly Dwvqu bMDw ]
    bRhm igAwnI kY hoie su Blw ]
    bRhm igAwnI suPl Plw ]
    bRhm igAwnI sMig sgl auDwru ]
    nwnk bRhm igAwnI jpY sgl sMswru ]




    Anyways it is all his own problems; nobody can free anybody from the shackles of Maya but Waheguru.

    Again my oservation: he does not understand Gurmukhi and all this knowledge of Gurbani he claims to have is borrowed. Saadh Sangat Ji he claims to be an ALL KNOWER, how long it can take to an all knower to learn a language(Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji knew many languages so perfectly). Before one uses Gurbani to prove his/her point, i think it is very essential that one must have read ALL GURBANI-

    PURE GUR KI PURI DIKHEYAA......


    3. He used a few Lines from certain Shabads and plainly used them to prove his own points:
    • what happens when a true Saint comes into our life.
    My response: There is a lot of times Guru Sahibaan has mentioned in Gurbani- WE HAVE TO FOLLOW GURU’S TEACHINGS, OTHERWISE NOTHING:

    Like:
    syvk isK pUjx siB Awvih siB gwvih hir hir aUqm bwnI ]
    gwivAw suixAw iqn kw hir Qwie pwvY ijn siqgur kI AwigAw siq siq kir mwnI ]1]
    bolhu BweI hir kIriq hir Bvjl qIriQ ]
    hir dir iqn kI aUqm bwq hY sMqhu hir kQw ijn jnhu jwnI ] rhwau ]
    Awpy guru cylw hY Awpy Awpy hir pRBu coj ivfwnI ]
    jn nwnk Awip imlwey soeI hir imlsI Avr sB iqAwig Ehw hir BwnI ]2]

    and many more times…
    He is totally ignoring all that goes against his own theory.
    • You have to see God before real naam simran happens.
    My response: repeating again- Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Nirankaar- Bani is Nirankaar…….
    What else proof do we need, If others cannot see that nobody can help…..
    • He was supporting Respected Balbir Ji, for disrespecting the Kirtan Pratha. He was supporting his theory that outer Kirtan is not important, you have to see God to listen to real Kirtan.
    My response: Again Bani is Nirankaar and all the true Sikhs respect Kirtan, every society, every faith has people who misuse certain traditions, so we also have some people who do, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE KIRTAN NOT-SACRED.

    kir ikrpw sMqn scu kihAw ]
    srb sUK iehu Awnµdu lihAw ]
    swDsMig hir kIrqnu gweIAY ]
    khu nwnk vfBwgI pweIAY ]


    hir kIrqnu suxY hir kIrqnu gwvY ]
    iqsu jn dUKu inkit nhI AwvY ]

    May i ask Saadh Sangat Ji, if real Kirtan is being listened deep within (inside) by Sahil Ji, why is he so so so anxiously waiting for my reply????? i know and in my case(forgive me please) it does not take me more than nine seconds to know the response, other person says/writes it or not…………and I am not even close to a Brahmgyani, just a learner myself, only trying to do GURU JI DI SEVA WITHOUT ANY SELF INTEREST.



    THIS IS ALL SAADH SANGAT JI,

    PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

    FOR SIKHS PERFECT MASTER IS DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI............












    ----------------------------------------
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  3. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    GuruFateh

    Great.. Great.. really great..

    First of all, My reason to be on this forum.. is not to tell u about my master.. thats why I have never put the name of my master n WILL NEVER PUT.. Because master can be anyone who can show u the GOD...
    But reason is that .... I really feel a big woe.. when I see that NO ONE IS FOLLOWING OUR GREAT SGGS..
    ONLY GIVING OUTER(TRADITIONAL) RESPECT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SGGS.

    OK U TELL ME WHERE ITS WRITTEN THAT, LIVING GURU IS NOT NECESSARY..
    AND I WILL TELL U WHAT ACTUAL BANI IS. from SGGS...
    (AS I HAVE ALREADY TOLD U THAT BANI IS WITHIN US.. and THAT BANI u call it SHABAD/NAAM/COSMIC VIBRATION.. AND THAT BANI IS NIRANKAR.. and if u have experienced that BANI.. then u have experienced NIRANKAR.)

    BUT EACH N EVERY LINE OF SGGS WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT IN OUR LIFE
    M not giving my own theories.. I strictly followed SGGS in my replies..
    First u called me misinterpreting our great scripture...
    I was anxiously waiting for ur replies..because I found no responses from ur side whenever I put QUOTES that proves some thing to u....u were ignoring again and again... Yes I need to improve SABAR part in me.. I will ask GOD to give me more SABAR.


    I never cried out that i know everything.. but i accepted ur points and waited for ur responses.. I said that u know everything.. but u r ignoring many things from SGGS,
    OK tell me , the lines that put from SGGS.. are they new to u???? I think u must have read it 100 nos of times.. but never emphasised on that.. I m just telling u to read it again...
    I THINK U MUST HAVE READ DIB-DRISHTI/DASAM-DWAAR(TENTHDOOR) no of times.. BUT DID U EVER THINK THAT HOW MY TENTH DOOR WILL OPEN.. AND HOW I WILL GET THE AMRIT.. I THINK NEVER.. THATs why i kept putting that lines..only encourage u to emphasise on that lines again

    I generally replied to the lines that u put.. (mostly when u put page-no with that).. I cant understand this type of punjabi..

    ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ]

    hukim rjweI clxw nwnk iliKAw nwil ]

    If u give me page-no I will surely reply for such things..

    sometime even after knowing page-no .....i never replied to lines that u explored to us.. because each n every line in SGGS is great GYAN.. but I always asked u to explain the lines..
    I give u preference to explain each n every line..
    Because in each n every line that u put there were so many-things that explains how necessary a guru is in our life
    so that we can understand what u want to convey...


    U SAID .. WE NEED TO FOLLOW GURU's TEACHINGS...
    and i only tried to explore guru's teaching to u.. did i give my own theory.
    I again invite u to interpret that lines again.. Ask questions on that lines..
    but please DONT JUST IGNORE THE LINES OF SGGS... I KNOW U WILL NEVER INTERPRET THAT LINES(Sorry for that.. it can be wrong thinking too)



    AGAIN I WOULD ASK U THE BASIC QUESTION:::
    WHAT IS SIKH according to SGGS

    waiting for ur reply,
    Sahil Makkar





     
  4. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    Oh good grief. I am starting to feel big woe already. Surinder Kaur Cheema is correct in the other thread saying that Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a living Guru. If you have some secret human guru somewhere, why do you care what Sikhs are doing or not doing? Because you are not a Sikh if you have a master outside of Guruji. Simple. End of every debate.
     
  5. rosethorne

    rosethorne
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    Dear Khalsa ji,
    In my view Sahilji have given the idea that who is his master. Because only a Nirankari can write this NIRANANKAR in bold letters. He Showed his love for NIRANAKAR as a Nirankari. They can learn words of SGGS Maharaj ji but never can reach to the truth. May god don't let them to go to Hell but sure in my view. My wishes to Sahilji. And Sahilji please leave this site.


    (AS I HAVE ALREADY TOLD U THAT BANI IS WITHIN US.. and THAT BANI u call it SHABAD/NAAM/COSMIC VIBRATION.. AND THAT BANI IS NIRANKAR.. and if u have experienced that BANI.. then u have experienced NIRANKAR.)






    [/quote]
     
  6. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    #5 Harjas Kaur Khalsa, Apr 2, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2007
  7. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    GuruFateh

    No doubts, surinder behan in other thread said very well, that u must know gurumukhi very well to describe the things u want to,
    and I said again n again, I accept n agree that u must have read SGGS more than me, thats why I always say that u read gurubani n find out, but behan just emphasise on the things I told about GOD(seeing)...
    KABIR JI VERY WELL SAID,
    TERA MERA MANUVA KAISE EK HOE RE,
    TU KAHE HE KAGAAZ LEKHI, MEIN KAHU HU AKHIN DEKHI..
    so sister i want to say, that what ever m saying i have seen, not only read, ya i have read, then i come to know why gurubani is saying this lines...

    See gurubani explains so much things::: I will just list out some:::
    1>. Gurubani is for the people, who are already initiated , SGGS guides all of us, if u have guru then how to follow on, what is value of GURU,
    2>. Importance of human body, kirtan, satsang.
    3>, What actual SUKH is, though SGGS also says that for SUKH u have to go for NAAM-SIMRAN... WHAT IS RELIGION, WHAT IS BHAKTI
    4>. Reading of scriptures, SGGS tells that scriptures are to read, but not only to read, if u stick only to read then it will nt give u anything.
    5>. IT tells that GURU is needed, without guru one cannot reach his destiny(GOD),
    BIN GURU KINNE NA PAYA, BIN GURU KINE NA PAYA.
    6>. IT tells what FAKE GURUS r, hw FAKE/greedy so called renderers fo RELIGION decieve us.
    7>. IT tells what TRUE GURU is, what happens when a true guru comes to our life. HE SHOW US GOD within us,

    n many more things about great bhagats, that things are to inspire us on the "panth '(PATH).

    But i have found a serious issue here is that, our surinder behan is not at all interested in knowing .. what way guru-sahiban wants to tell us,

    I would ask again, where it is written that we dont need guru, in gurubani only..
    and waiting for most basic question ..

    WHAT IS SIKH(Kammal he 2 mahine ho gaye, par hale tak answer nahi aaya)

    GURUFATEH.
     
  8. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    What is unclear? Surinder Kaur Ji has told you our ShabadGuru Sahib Ji is living and complete. What causes you to assume there is no Guru in Sikhi? Where did you get the belief that without some dedhari master/baba/guru, Sikhi presumes to have no need for Guru? You are presenting things in a distorted way to prove a false point. Why are you doing this?

    You keep asking for answers. Maybe you're only waiting for answers you want. Answer is very simple. A Sikh is a disciple of the living Jyote in Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and no one else. So whose disciple are you? That is the real question.

    All these elements, the Shabad, the Guru, the Gurbani, the Naam-Gurmantara are all one eternally alive and ever-present Jyote.

    bhul chuk maaf karni ~
    Please sangat ji feel free to point out errors and correct mistakes and help this morakh. Thank you.
     
  9. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    Gurufateh

    GURUBANI doesnt says this defination of sikh..

    WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW ONLY SGGS AS GURU..

    GURUBANI IS HERE FOR ENLIGHTEN US. TO LEAD US TO TRUE GURU /LIVING GURU,

    U R ACTUALLY DISTORTED,

    I THINK CURIOUS SINGH HAS WRITTEN VERY WELL ABOUT this, bhai prahalad singh,
    that is answer for u, where it is written to follow SGGS as living guru. no where written to follow SGGS as guru,
    not by any of the 10 gurus..



    Tell me,
    GuruFateh
     
  10. simpy

    simpy
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    Sahil Ji YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF-

    GURBANI IS HERE TO ENLIGHTEN US. YES YES YES.

    ok answer me-

    QUESTIONS FOR ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE THE SIKHS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR BELIEF IN 'DHAN “DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI” BEING THEIR LIVING GURU' IS SUBJECT TO BE CORRECTED.

    A True Guru is a Guru because His Soul is Merged with The Higher Self.
    For us(SIKHS) ALL OUR GURUS ARE TRUE GURUS. :)
    For us(SIKHS) All our Eleven Gurus are LIVING. :)
    For us(SIKHS) TRUTH never dies. It is not bound to time and space. ALL GURU SAHIBAAN AND ETERNAL LIVING JOTE IN THE FORM OF DHAN DHAN SIRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI
    are everywhere, all the time, Adole, Apaar……:)
    Baani Prabh Ki Sabh ko Bolay, Aap Adole Na Kabhu Doley………

    IF ME NEECH IS WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME.:roll:


    Now we all know this Truth that human body is limited to time and space so has to expire one day. So is Guru Ji’s. There is no Guru living in a physical body forever. CAN YOUR GURU'S PHYSICAL BODY LIVE FOREVER??????

    And I hope we all agree on this point that Atma never dies. DO WE??????

    So for us(SIKHS), all our Gurus are here; now; have not gone anywhere. ARE THEY GONE ANYWHERE????

    For all those who have been beating the drum Living Guru, Living Guru; In a Human Body, In a Human Body; The Only Way, The Only Way-
    Will your Guru be of NO USE TO YOU AFTER HE/SHE LEAVES HIS/HER HUMAN ABODE??????

    Are his/her words(truth) those are coming out of his/her mouth now, will be useless after he/she leaves the physical body???????


    forgive me please
     
  11. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    Gurufateh

    being honest i will not miss even a single point written by u in red(as u r missing so many points from my side)..
    but i will answer all of them..

    wait..
    Forgive me please god if m wrong

    Gurufateh
     
  12. simpy

    simpy
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    why wait- you told us your tenth gate is open- should not take that long to answer these questions

    forgive me please
     
  13. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    m working thats why i put u on wait

    it needs a big explanation

    In hurry i will not write anything wrong
    if u r in hurry then just come online with me on
    gursikh1983@yahoo.com at messenger


    gurufateh
     
  14. simpy

    simpy
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    Respected Sahil Ji,

    endless thanks to you.

    no need to hurry, and i have already told you- i am not intereseted in your Guru.
    My GURU IS PURAN GURU, IF MY GURU NEEDS ME TO KNOW ANYTHING- TELLS ME IN NO TIME. WHEN I NEED ANY HELP MY GURU PROVIDES ME IN NO TIME.

    You have already thrown a lot of Kalakh on your socalled guru's name, you can do more- as much as you want.

    And please once again-DO NOT DISRESPECT GURBANI ANYMORE.
    I AM REQUESTING YOU ONCE AGAIN WITH FOLDED HANDS.

    by the way- another Question-

    WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT ONE SHOULD FOLLOW SAHIL MAKKAR??????
    WHERE IT IS WRITTEN ONE SHOULD FOLLOW SAHIL MAKKAR'S SOCALLED GURU?????

    forgive me please
     
  15. sahilmakkar1983

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    To meine kab kaha ki mere guru ko follow karo,
    mein to aap ko yehi kya, ki SGGS pado, o dase ga ki keda guru follow karo.

    par aap baaton ko ghumane ki bajaye ye dhundho ki ye kha likha
    ki Shri guru gobind singh ke aage koi guru nahi hoga..
    ye dhund lena..

    n pray to Guru Nanak to show u way

    GuruFateh

     
  16. simpy

    simpy
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    Oh yes Sahil Ji

    YOU ARE PROMOTING SOMETHING THAT YOU YOUSELF HAVE PROVED MANY TIMES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS.

    keep going- YOU ARE MAKING IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT

    either

    SOMEBODY IS MAKING FOOL OF YOU/MISGUIDING YOU/BRAINWASHED YOU.

    OR

    you think-YOU CAN EXPLOIT EXISTING LANGUAGES AND MISGUIDE OTHERS.

    forgive me please
     
  17. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    Gurfateh,

    Dear sister, I am waiting for ur responses again and again.. ya I did mistake at 1 or 2 places.. and I accepted that.. but Please.. with folded hands m asking u, tell me the meaning of otherlines too..
    again and again.... m asking u.. If u dont want to answer that... Its OK.. after giving that reply(other topic) that I have promised to u.. I will leave this forum..()

    Because If m true , then one more thing I know , that as I have seen GOD with in me, so I know the same GOD within u makes me ur brother.. So if anyhow m hurting u(though intention is only to discuss what GURUBANI says.. and what GYAN our 10 guru gave to their devotees).. then it wud be better to leave..
    because GURUNANAK dev always keep telling me.. WHATEVER ur intention are never break any heart..


    Gurufateh

     
  18. kds1980

    kds1980 India
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    sahil apart from guru granth sahib we also have sikh history and according to that history guru gobind singh ji ended human guruship.if guru gobind singh ji did not ended human guruship then please tell all of us to whom he gave gurgaddi? not giving gurgaddi to any person is clear proof that there is no need of living guru.
     
  19. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    Bhayiya jee,

    Ya he didnt give guru gaddi to anyone, but he never mentioned that , NEXT GURU will never come..
    and guru gobind singh jee never mentioned that THIS IS END OF GURUSHIP.. is it written somewhere.
    but if u read SHRI DASAM GRANTH then u will come know.. that Guru Gobind Singh jee has encouraged us to GO for a living GURU.. if not DASAM GRANTH then go through any SIKH-literature(written by any of our gurus).. AND just put some lines that prove ur point.

    Gurufateh
     
  20. Harjas Kaur Khalsa

    Harjas Kaur Khalsa
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    And I was waiting for the big explanation from a brahmgiani.

    Explain please this inconsistency:
    1. Ya he didn't give guru gaddi to anyone...
    2. But he never mentioned that, NEXT GURU will never come...

    Why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji encourage us to GO for a living Guru, when he Himself is Guru Ji? The Living Jyote of all 10 Masters was one and the same, and Guru Gobind Singh Ji ended the Human lineage by placing His living Jyote into the 11th, the Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaaj. Now I ask you. Why would Guruji just leave the Panth hanging...until along came any person who claimed Gurgaddi for himself who would change all the accepted traditions and claim to be satguru? Don't you realize the great wisdom and blessing of Guru Sahib Ji to end the lineage and protect the Panth in this era of Kaliyug from imposters and pretenders and corruptions of Gursikhi?

    Now, because you cannot accept the Panthic answers which come not only from Gurbani of Shabad Guru Sahib Ji, but from the vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji, from the actions of Baba Deep Singh Ji, from the entire history and tradition of Sikh Panth, you are just arguing but cannot disprove. The entire Sikh Panth is not wrong, you are. Now if I am making mistakes, I submit myself to the sadhsangat for correction and kindly accept. Because it isn't about my own opinion.

    Well, you are entitled to your opinon which no one can change. Anything written by our Guru Sahibs was GURBANI, not Sikh literature or just some lines. As for Dasam Granth, Akal Takht has banned discussion of it. So please stop now all these arguments. If you deny the Gurgaddi of Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you are not a Sikh by any accepted Panthic definition. Therefore, as not a Sikh, please refrain from fighting with Sikhs about Sikh religion. Thank you.
     
  21. sahilmakkar1983

    sahilmakkar1983
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    GuruFateh bhen ji

    Dekho behan tusi bus SGGS changi tarah pad lo, na jo mein dasya onu apne dimaag vich rakho,
    or hi jo tvannu pehle pata he onu,

    bilkul unbiased ho ke pado, Saari uljhana aape hi mit jaan gi ha,

    Bilkul sahi Guru apne bachya nu kadi vi latka ke nahi jaanda, par oh bacheya nu hal de ke jaanda he,
    Shri Guru Gobind Singh jee de jaan to baad vi kadi mahapursha da aana rukya nahi..

    Aande rahe.... Chaho te mein sareya de naam das sakda ha
    Or Shri Guru Gobind Singh jee ne jo vi kya such he, koi do raye hi nahi,
    par behan jee, ona ne kithe vi eh nahi kya ki GURU MANYO GRANTH,
    eh gal kissi duje forum te discuss ho chuki he
    ki eh Gal bhai prehalad singh ne likhi he..
    SGGS saadi guidance layi he.. sache guru nu talash karan layi..

    Bakki Dasam granth.. da vi saanu hale tak pata hi nahi.. ki ede piche ki raaj he, ki Guru jee ne likhya ki kissi hor ne...
    Sanu te adhiya gala hi pata he.. jo kissi ne keh ti man li....
    par Dasam granth sade guru da hi he.. or sanu sareya nu garv hona chahi da he..
    par asi te aaj political issue bana ta he dharam nu..

    Chalo thoda free ho ke hor likha ga

    GuruFateh
     

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