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Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment.

Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichaar' started by Charan, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Charan

    Charan
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    SSA everyone ::cool:

    While reading the daily hukamnama, I came over a sentence that I didn't fully grasp;

    Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment.

    Can someone explain what this implies?
    __________


    DHANAASAREE, FIRST MEHL:

    That union with the Lord is acceptable, which is united in intuitive poise. Thereafter, one does not die, and does not come and go in reincarnation. The Lord’s slave is in the Lord, and the Lord is in His slave. Wherever I look, I see none other than the Lord. || 1 || The Gurmukhs worship the Lord, and find His celestial home. Without meeting the Guru, they die, and come and go in reincarnation. || 1 || Pause || So make Him your Guru, who implants the Truth within you, who leads you to speak the Unspoken Speech, and who merges you in the Word of the Shabad. God’s people have no other work to do; they love the True Lord and Master, and they love the Truth. || 2 || The mind is in the body, and the True Lord is in the mind. Merging into the True Lord, one is absorbed into Truth. God’s servant bows at His feet. Meeting the True Guru, one meets with the Lord. || 3 || He Himself watches over us, and He Himself makes us see. He is not pleased by stubborn-mindedness, nor by various religious robes. He fashioned the body-vessels, and infused the Ambrosial Nectar into them; God’s Mind is pleased only by loving devotional worship. || 4 || Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment. By great cleverness, one is consigned to coming and going in reincarnation. One who chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and eats the food of the Fear of God becomes Gurmukh, the Lord’s servant, and remains absorbed in the Lord. || 5 || He worships stones, dwells at sacred shrines of pilgrimage and in the jungles, wanders, roams around and becomes a renunciate. But his mind is still filthy — how can he become pure? One who meets the True Lord obtains honor. || 6 || One who embodies good conduct and contemplative meditation, his mind abides in intuitive poise and contentment, since the beginning of time, and throughout the ages. In the twinkling of an eye, he saves millions. Have mercy on me, O my Beloved, and let me meet the Guru. || 7 || Unto whom, O God, should I praise You? Without You, there is no other at all. As it pleases You, keep me under Your Will. Nanak, with intuitive poise and natural love, sings Your Glorious Praises. || 8 || 2 ||


    Friday, 16th Poh (Samvat 542 Nanakshahi) (Page: 686)



    SOURCE: http://sgpc.net/hukumnama/index.asp
    __________

    Thanks in advance ::cool:[/COLOR]
     
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  3. findingmyway

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Charan ji,
    Here is my understanding on reading through the shabad on page 686. I'm going to put into context of the shabad as it makes more sense that way. I hope others more learned than myself will advise also....

    The rahao line talks about how those that follow the Guru's path and become committed to Waheguru, stop their soul from dying. The rest of the shabad are some tips on achieving that. Firstly we have to be careful about which Guru we choose. Only the Guru that talks about the truth and connects you with the shabad so in our case this would be only Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The person who connects and immerses mind and body into contemplating Waheguru has nothing but love for the creation. I think the next bit means that when you are connected to Waheguru your mind remains in the body meaning that your body is controlled by naam rather than anger, lust etc. So when Waheguru remains in the mind then you become absorbed in devotion by living according to Gurbani. The shabad then states that Waheguru knows each in his creation and if you think outward show alone will please then there is not point so this is condemning the saffron robes and sadhu's attire etc of the time. Now here's the line you are interested in-those who become completely absorbed in knowledge and start worship that rather than using it as a means to further spirituality suffer from a sick soul as they stray off the path. The next line goes on to condemn blind worship such as worshipping stones. The right path is somewhere in the middle-a quiet mind which is contemplative of the wonder of creation. Who can you be praised to when you are in each person and everywhere!

    Hope that helps. Thank you so much for sharing a lovely shabad.
    Jasleen.
     
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  4. Charan

    Charan
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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Thank you so much, Jasleen ji!! ::cool: It makes sense. Your contribution is highly appreciated.

    I hope you don't mind me asking another question that has been on my mind lately. In the shabad 'Kahia Karna, Ditta Laina', which I understand as 'What You say, I will do. What You give, I will take', there is a line that goes 'Na ko murakh, na ko siana." Could this be an indication to the balance, that somewhere-in-the-middle, that you are referring to above? As in, we should neither be murakhs (we shouldn't be involved with the Five Evils) nor should we be siane (act as besserwissers, think we have more knowledge than others and maybe God himself?) ... Just let me know if you don't understand what I am asking about, and I'll try again ::cool:
     
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  5. findingmyway

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Charan ji,
    Questions are wonderful! I ask too many myself ;)
    The lines you quote I think are these from page 98?
    ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ maajh mehalaa 5 ||

    ਕਹਿਆ ਕਰਣਾ ਦਿਤਾ ਲੈਣਾ ॥ kehiaa karanaa dhithaa lainaa ||
    ਗਰੀਬਾ ਅਨਾਥਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਮਾਣਾ ॥ gareebaa anaathhaa thaeraa maanaa ||
    ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
    sabh kishh thoonhai thoonhai maerae piaarae thaeree kudharath ko bal jaaee jeeo ||1||
    ਭਾਣੈ ਉਝੜ ਭਾਣੈ ਰਾਹਾ ॥ bhaanai oujharr bhaanai raahaa ||
    ਭਾਣੈ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਾਵਾਹਾ ॥ bhaanai har gun guramukh gaavaahaa ||
    ਭਾਣੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੂਨੀ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥
    bhaanai bharam bhavai bahu joonee sabh kishh thisai rajaaee jeeo ||2||
    ਨਾ ਕੋ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਨਾ ਕੋ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥ naa ko moorakh naa ko siaanaa ||
    ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਭਾਣਾ ॥ varathai sabh kishh thaeraa bhaanaa ||
    ਅਗਮ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਅਥਾਹਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
    agam agochar baeanth athhaahaa thaeree keemath kehan n jaaee jeeo ||3||
    ਖਾਕੁ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਦੇਹੁ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥ khaak santhan kee dhaehu piaarae ||
    ਆਇ ਪਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਦੁਆਰੈ ॥ aae paeiaa har thaerai dhuaarai ||
    ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪੇਖਤ ਮਨੁ ਆਘਾਵੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਲਣੁ ਸੁਭਾਈ ਜੀਉ ॥੪॥੭॥੧੪॥ dharasan paekhath man aaghaavai naanak milan subhaaee jeeo ||4||7||14||

    This is all about how everything is in Akal Purakh's will, good and bad is all His/Her will. All are looked after by the creator. I think the line you refer to is saying no-one is stupid as they are created by the same being but no-one is clever either as in comparison to infinity itself how can anyone be clever!

    I would appreciate Gyani Jarnail Singh ji's interpretation on both shabad's too as his understanding is greater than mine!
     
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  6. BhagatSingh

    BhagatSingh Canada
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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Findingway ji,
    All I can add is that it goes back to seeing the world with the veil of duality. Seeing ignorant and intelligent, seeing friend and stranger, seeing good and evil. Well, actually the problem isn't seeing it but buying into it.

    "na ko murakh, na ko siana..."
    similarly, Guru Arjan Dev ji says in a different passage , "na ko bairi nahi begana"
    Guru Nanak Dev ji says "hum nahi change bura nahi koye"

    It's easy to switch on the rational mind, and think about how true it is. We can make some line of reasoning in our heads and feel good about ourselves, that we now know that no one is good and bad. But later on, we still go on thinking in those terms. "he shoulnd't have done that he is so..."
    I think that according to Gurbani, it should come to us intuitively, without thought. We JUST KNOW and FEEL INSIDE that no one is this or that, and that "sabh kich Thoon hain". Its one thing to believe, which is through thought... it's another to just be aware...

    It's like what Tejwant Singh ji usually says. It all about seeing ONENESS.
     
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  7. Charan

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Jasleen ji and Bhagat Singh ji, thank you so much for helping me understand this better. I am very grateful and it means a lot to me that there is a place where I can get answers to questions like these. :flowers: Had it not been that I constantly learn new things and sort out misunderstandings about Sikhism through, for example you guys and SPN, I might have let go of Sikhi... like many abroad-born teenagers tend to do. But I am glad I didn't. I am still learning and in no way a perfect Sikh. Most likely I will never be a perfect Sikh. But this process of learning will always keep me attached to Sikhi and that's more than enough. :8)

    And yes Bhagat Singh ji, it is indeed very important to practice what we preach/think we understand... but unfortunenately it is equally difficult. What can we do to become less judgemental? Can we ever become fully non-judgemental? Sometimes I feel human-nature is in the way...
     
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  8. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    It also happens quite often that when we learn and study too much..we becoem conceited with our "knowledge"...this is called Siannappan....chalakiaan..chatrayeean ( an example of chalakii and chatrayee is matha teking or even more insidious..."donating" a tiny sum Rs 1.25, having a RECEIPT cut, and having the Name announced in Ardass so that everyone "knows" what a great donor we are...and then asking the Gyani to ask Guru Ji for UNTOLD RICHES..lotteries..sons..buisnesses....good health...etc etc...evr wondered exactly how expensive good helath relaly is..?? ask the Cardiologist..kidney transplant specialist..liver transplant costs ??? all we have FREE from God !!..but still we play chalakian chatriyaan with HIM !!
    The "punishment" of such...is SEPARATION FROM HIM...we just cannot achieve UNION...so we suffer....and the GURU doesnt wnat that....hence this shabad....a lesson for us...
     
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  9. findingmyway

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Charan ji,
    Who knows who is a perfect Sikh! All we can do is work on ourselves. You posting questions and sharing your understanding helps all of us a great deal too! The threads for gurbani vichaar are the ones that make me happiest :grinningkaur:

    Bhagat Singh ji talks about the veil of duality very well and I still have a long way to go in eradicating it but here are some things that helped me reduce my prejudices; when I was at university for my 1st degree, I became very active in the international office. We had 2 roles - help international students settle in and promote integration between international and home students to avoid cliques forming. That experience really broadened my horizons and exposed me to a lot of different people helping to break down stereotypes. I still have friends in all areas of the world and have visited some in their original countries which is amazing. Its wonderful to be able to share cultures-to learn and teach at the sametime without trying to convert on either side kudihug
    Jasleen
     
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  10. Charan

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."


    Thank you for contributing ji ::cool: May I ask another question? Is siana both a negative and a positive word? Until now I thought it was only a positive word, as we always refer to our elders as siane bande...
     
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  11. BhagatSingh

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Check this out: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/33792-shallow-readings-and-meditation.html
    We are judgemental because of our ego, and our ego manifests itself in our thoughts. When we quiet down our thoughts through meditation, "praising the naam", we cease to be judgemental.

    Page 20, Line 12
    ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਨਿਵਰੀ ਭਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    गुरमुखि नामु सलाहीऐ हउमै निवरी भाहि ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
    Gurmukẖ nām salāhī▫ai ha▫umai nivrī bẖāhi. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    The Gurmukh praises the Naam, and the fire of egotism is extinguished. ||1||Pause||
    Guru Nanak Dev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
     
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  12. Charan

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Thanks Bhagat Singh ji...:hug: Your words are food for thought. Your essay really made me think...
     
  13. spnadmin

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Admin note: The previous comment was deleted for the following reasons. This is a Sikh forum. The section of the forum where this thread is located is "gurmat vichaar" which means "understanding the wisdom of the Guru, specifically wisdom found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the final and everlasting Guru of the Sikhs. The actual topic under discussion is a tuk from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Therefore it is inappropriate to introduce any interpretation coming from a different belief system in this context of Sikh forum+Sikh scripture+Sikh verse+of Sikh Guru. It would be just as unacceptable for a Sikh to interpret a passage from the Book of Job of the Hebrew Testament at a Jewish forum using Sikh vichaar to do so. IMHO, this is only common sense. Apologies if this is considered a stern reprimand.
     
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  14. spnadmin

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    Re: "Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment."

    Again apologies. A previous post has been physically removed. Discussions of similarities and differences between and among faiths go to Interfaith Dialogs. However, even there elevating the scripture of another faith on a par with Sri Guru Granth Sahib undermines Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and is a violation of TOS. No further warnings will be given.

    :admin4:
     
  15. Gyani Jarnail Singh

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    another related thought in Gurbani....in Asa dee vaar Guru Ji declares.."Parriah hoveh gunaahgaar..taan omi saadh na mariah..."....Meaning IF the Educated one is GUILTY..(he will be punished)..and NOT the uneducated simpleton..saadh. This is in relation to the implication that an educated person can get away with murder..while the poor uneducated saadh can be implicated and punished for a crime he never committed..Such can happen in the worldly justice system..BUT not in His Heavenly Justice Courts of Dharamraaj !!
    This is one way in which a person MISUSES his education !!..and may thus LOSE it all ( chance for merger with HIM )welcomekaur
     
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  16. prakash.s.bagga

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    CHARAN Ji,
    DIVINE GREETINGS,
    I would like to bring to your kind notice that in the SHABAD under consideration there is no message like "READING AND STUDYING,ONE BECOMES CONFUSED AND SUFFER PUNISHMENT>"
    On the conrary the message goes loike this" READING AND THEN FORGETTING ,ONE BECOMES CONFUSED AND SUFFERS PUNISHMENT"
    SO you may pl verify this content of the SHABAD and the answer is OBVIOUS.

    Wirh best wishes

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  17. ravneet_sb

    ravneet_sb India
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    Dear Charan,

    Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
    Wahegugu Ji Ki Fateh,

    "GURU"

    "GU" is Darkness "RU" is Light

    "GURU" is transition from "Darkness" to "Light"

    Inside of mind can only be "realised" not physically "seen"


    We see the outer world when it is illuminated, but

    What is inside mind, how it operates.

    It also operates with light,
    when one realises the inside illumination,
    one realises " GURU"

    One can attain "Peace" and " Happiness"

    Foolish "MIND" is always in mode of "desire" for sex, food, security, happiness, peace.

    "Peace" is utmost.

    Ultimate aim is to achieve "Peace" to all the souls.

    It is rest of "MIND". which can not be achieved outside.

    But making one's "MIND" desireless.

    Do little exercise

    Move in silence, shut all your senses,

    focus on "MIND"

    It will have lot of unresolved thoughts, beyond one's controll

    Resolve all your thoughts

    After one has achieved this. Resolving all your thoughts

    Not so easy

    One can realise "GURU" within self.

    "GhAR" is one's OWN Body

    "GURU" is "GRANTH SAHIB JI"

    "SHABAD" mein "GURU"

    "GURU" hai "SHABAD"

    Dhan Dhan "GURU" Granth Sahib Ji.


    Ravneet is crying while writting this ,

    people following false "GURU's" falling prey of wrong Human's

    Understand "SHABAD" know "GURU"

    Reference

    nij ghar mahal paavhu sukh sehjay bahur na ho-igo fayraa
    Pg 13 Line 18

    gh
    ar hee vich mahal paa-i-aa gur sabdee veechaar Pg30 Line 2

    jo ghar chhad gavaavnaa so lagaa man maahi Pg 43 Line 5

    aap pachhaanai ghar vasai ha-umai tarisnaa jaa-ay. Pg57 Line 17
     
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  18. prakash.s.bagga

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    Ravneet-sb
    Divine Greetings,

    I am surprised the way you have given the meaning to the word GURU.Is this a practice of getting to the meaning of different words as per giving meaning to different letters.This can create chaos in the meanings. e g the letter S can be taken for SATYA or it can be taken for SURAT or it can be taken for SURAJ like that.there is no end to give meanings to the letter.

    Does Gurbaani anywhere tells the meaning of the word GURU as declared by your goodself.?This meaning is our own creation not the GURMATi way.
    In Gurbaani the word GURU is very very clearly reffered as SHABADu not as SHABAD.You may verify this yourself from the GURMUKHI Script of SGGS ji. I am not required to go into the details of this.

    It is my only earnest request that let us give clear and specific message from SGGS ji.
    My views may pl not be taken otherwise.I would feel SORRY.
    With best wishes
    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
  19. prakash.s.bagga

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    SPNADMIN Ji,
    Divine Greetings,

    There seems to be some gross error in the thread the meaning of the TUK from SGGS ji.

    You may pl note thatr the line in SGGS ji is

    "PADi PADi BHULAHi CHOTAA KHAi BAHUT SIAANUP AAWAHi JAAHi

    The meaning of the line as given in THREAD does not match the actual message being conveyed in the TUK of SGGS

    I would request to look into this and rectify the content of thread as you feel.

    Thanking you

    Prakash.s.Bagga
     
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  20. spnadmin

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    Prakash.S.Bagga ji

    Please share what specifically you find objectionable about it, and why you find it objectionable. Thank you
     
  21. prakash.s.bagga

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    SPNADMIN Ji,

    The actual meaning of the TUK in SGGS tells

    'READING AND FORGETTING THE READ CREATES CONFUSION AND RESULTS PUNISHNENT"

    Whereas the thread is telling

    "READING AND STUDYING,ONE GETS CONFUSED AND SUFFERS PUNISHMENT"

    You can notice the error in the message in the thread being very much different that of SGGS

    Prakash.S.Bagga
     
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